For aik: Why I Am No Longer a Christian

[aik]

Unfair is everything in the world,
Where is God? Why does He stay silent?
Why endure all this,
When the world stands upon misfortune...

 

Tormented by such thoughts,
A young man walked through the forest.
He was trying to understand the issue, he lost his way in the forest.

 

suddenly, a traveler with a bag

Comes along the forest road.
And to the question, "Will you show me the way?"
He "Yes. Come with me." said.

 

The path twisted like a snake in the forest.
Hurry to the long-awaited home!
Suddenly, in front of them appeared
A little house under a big bush.

 

The host warmly welcomed them,
Fed and quenched their thirst.
And the young man, noticing the kindness,
Asked about the golden cup.

 

"Oh, this cup is a gift,
From a former enemy.
And it is a symbol of our friendship -
It is very dear to me."

 

The host went out for a moment,
And the traveler gathered all his belongings.
Then he hid the cup in his bag
And escaped together with the young man.

 

When asked about this,
The young man heard in response:
"Silence, my friend, the ways of God
Are not of human, no."

 

To another cottage their path led,
A little later, they then reached ahead.
But from it came a stern voice,
As sharp as an arrow, with no choice:

 

"Hey! Get away from here!
For you, nothing to appear!
If you want to live, my friends,
Leave this place, make your amends!"

 

The owner of the house sent them away,
But before they in dismay,
The traveler left a bowl there,
Decided to give a gift fair.

 

"But isn unjust?" he expressed.
With frustration, the young man addressed.
For he of death,
Yet you gave him a gift, with every breath.

 

But the traveler, taking a deep breath,
Replied once again to him, in:
"Be silent, my friend, for the ways of the Lord,
Are not for us to fully afford."

 

Leaving the wicked man behind,
They walked through,In the old cottage of a poor woodcutter,
They found shelter, a place to utter.

 

This woodcutter was very poor,

With six children, struggling for sure.
Though they had welcomed them, feeling complete.

 

The only wealth they had
Was love and friendship in that house.
And what they cherished dearly
Was their old house.

 

In the morning, the children

To gather mushrooms for lunch.
The housewife collected all the laundry,
Went to wash.

 

In the forest, the owner chopped wood,
Earning money as best he could

the traveler, like a wicked Cain,
Took matches and set their house on fire.

 

At this our the young man shout:
"How could someone do such a thing?!
This house is their everything,
Why do they have to this?!"

 

But once again,
Gave a familiar response:
"Stay silent, my friend,
The ways of God are not human, not!"

 

On the outskirts of the road,
There's a little house by the river.
The owner, though stern he may be,
Invited guests into his home.

 

The owner, an elderly man,
Recently lost his wife.
He had one joy - his son,
But didn't trust people at all.

 

Nevertheless, after welcoming them,
The owner fed his guests.
And asked his son to accompany them
Across the river.

 

As they reached the middle of the bridge,
And the traveler called upon the boy,
Matching his strength with all his

He pushed him, and the boy fell.

 

At this point, this possible? Who are you?
How long can this injustice continue?
Stop!" he exclaimed.

 

And the traveler, like a ray of spring,
Suddenly shone brightly with light.
And after a few moments,
He transformed into a beautiful angel.

 

Then, waving his hand

He answered, dispersing the light:
"Be silent, my friend, for the paths of the Lord
Are no!

 

Do you remeber the first house and the cup?
The owner who possessed it?
Well, there was poison mixed in it.
I gave a life to him by it.

 

And do you remember the evil man
Who chased us away back then?
I left him with that cup.
I gave him only what he chose.

 

In the burnt house, while clearing
The ash and dust, the woodcutter
Found the gold, weeping,
And that man became rich.

 

,the boy who was in the last house,
What he grew up to be a murdered

-But in the coming of Christ,
He became one of the saved."

 

When people comfort the father,
He becomes much kinder.
And in the future, he will also be
When Christ comes, saved.

 

What you see ignorance.
Do not reject the light of salvation.
And remember that the ways of the Lord
Are not human, no!

 

How often in this fleeting life
We see sorrow and adversity.
And in this heartfelt grief
We live as if in hell.

 

But my trust in God!
He knows how to turn
Your unnoticed path
Into a pure, new, bright way!

So remember today, my friend,
And after many, many years:
Truly, the ways of the Lord
Are not human,
 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Twisted, sick logic.

[TABA]

10 hours ago, aik said:

The host warmly welcomed them,
Fed and quenched their thirst.
And the young man, noticing the kindness,
Asked about the golden cup.

 

"Oh, this cup is a gift,
From a former enemy.
And it is a symbol of our friendship -
It is very dear to me."

 

The host went out for a moment,
And the traveler gathered all his belongings.
Then he hid the cup in his bag
And escaped together with the young man.

 

Above is the first episode from aik's poem, which I understand is translated from the original Russian.  I think it would be fair to call this a Parable, a way of making a point through a story that is not necessarily factually true.

 

And here is the explanation for the first episode...

10 hours ago, aik said:

Do you remeber the first house and the cup?
The owner who possessed it?
Well, there was poison mixed in it.
I gave a life to him by it.

 

It seemed unjust and shocking when the Traveler took the man's prized possession, but it turns out it was a danger to him, so it was right to take it away.  

 

Episode 2:

10 hours ago, aik said:

To another cottage their path led,
A little later, they then reached ahead.
But from it came a stern voice,
As sharp as an arrow, with no choice:

 

"Hey! Get away from here!
For you, nothing to appear!
If you want to live, my friends,
Leave this place, make your amends!"

 

The owner of the house sent them away,
But before they in dismay,
The traveler left a bowl there,
Decided to give a gift fair.

 

Why give this unwelcoming jerk a present of the first man's treasured cup?  Turns out it was literally a poisoned chalice, a just punishment for his lack of hospitality...

10 hours ago, aik said:

And do you remember the evil man
Who chased us away back then?
I left him with that cup.
I gave him only what he chose.

 

Episode 3: The Traveler becomes an Arsonist...

10 hours ago, aik said:

This woodcutter was very poor,

With six children, struggling for sure.
Though they had welcomed them, feeling complete.

 

The only wealth they had
Was love and friendship in that house.
And what they cherished dearly
Was their old house.

 

In the morning, the children

To gather mushrooms for lunch.
The housewife collected all the laundry,
Went to wash.

 

In the forest, the owner chopped wood,
Earning money as best he could

the traveler, like a wicked Cain,
Took matches and set their house on fire.

 

But there's a silver lining!

10 hours ago, aik said:

In the burnt house, while clearing
The ash and dust, the woodcutter
Found the gold, weeping,
And that man became rich.

 

 

Episode 4:  Traveler Pushes Boy to his Death

10 hours ago, aik said:

The owner, an elderly man,
Recently lost his wife.
He had one joy - his son,
But didn't trust people at all.

 

Nevertheless, after welcoming them,
The owner fed his guests.
And asked his son to accompany them
Across the river.

 

As they reached the middle of the bridge,
And the traveler called upon the boy,
Matching his strength with all his

He pushed him, and the boy fell.

 

The boy is his widowed father's only consolation and joy.  But this is good!  Because the little dear would have grown up to be a murderer...

10 hours ago, aik said:

,the boy who was in the last house,
What he grew up to be a murdered

-But in the coming of Christ,
He became one of the saved."

 

 

It's clear that for @aik, this parable illustrates that what seems like tragedy or injustice actually yields a better outcome in the end.  In a world where the good suffer, where children die painfully, where evildoers prosper, those who believe in a righteous, loving, omnipotent god have always looked for explanations for suffering and injustice.  So I understand the motivation behind a piece like this.  I am sure many people draw consolation from the idea that all will be made right in the end.

 

If a bad thing happens to a good person, there must be some hidden reason.  And that's the problem:  it's always hidden.  We must believe, without any evidence whatsoever, that the deaths of thousands in Ukraine since last year is actually a good thing.  We must believe that the deaths of millions at the hands of Hitler and Stalin was actually a good thing.  The Indian Ocean Tsunami of 2004 killed more than 200,000 men, women and children.  Why?  Either the victims were bad people who had it coming to them, or the children would have grown up to be murderers, rapists or even atheists, so better to kill them before they could choose evil. 

 

Why would intelligent people believe such things?  Because belief in OmniGod requires these explanations to be conjured up.  The belief must be maintained, so some unfalsifiable explanation must be provided.  

 

Recall the story where the child was killed to prevent him from growing up and failing to be saved, whether by evildoing or lack of faith in the right god.  If this was a good thing, why are the majority of people in the world allowed to grow to adulthood when most of them are not "saved in Christ".  Would a just and righteous god not have pushed them off the bridge in childhood too?  Why would he pass up such an act of mercy?  Because it's all nonsense, that's why!  The reality is that people do bad things and people do good things.  The Earth gives us life but also cruelly snatches it away.  The laws of physics play no favorites.  THAT is why creatures suffer: the good, the bad, Christians, Muslims, agnostics and atheists, men, women and children, cats and dogs.  There are forces in the universe - and maybe outside of it - that we may never understand.  But the idea of an OmniGod - all loving, all seeing, all powerful, simply does not add up.  At least one of these attributes must not be true, and then what is left would not be the God of the Bible or the Quran either one.  People are welcome to do whatever mental gymnastics they like to keep the illusion going, but that, in the end, is all it is.

 

 

 

[TABA]

Folks, if you want to respond, please do so in the parallel Peanut Gallery thread.  Despite my tardiness in responding sometimes, I want to keep this channel clear for the Christian @aik and I to continue our battle of wits.  

 

 

[aik]

On 7/28/2023 at 11:23 PM, TABA said:

 

Above is the first episode from aik's poem, which I understand is translated from the original Russian.  I think it would be fair to call this a Parable, a way of making a point through a story that is not necessarily factually true.

 

And here is the explanation for the first episode...

 

It seemed unjust and shocking when the Traveler took the man's prized possession, but it turns out it was a danger to him, so it was right to take it away.  

 

Episode 2:

 

Why give this unwelcoming jerk a present of the first man's treasured cup?  Turns out it was literally a poisoned chalice, a just punishment for his lack of hospitality...

 

Episode 3: The Traveler becomes an Arsonist...

 

But there's a silver lining!

 

 

Episode 4:  Traveler Pushes Boy to his Death

 

The boy is his widowed father's only consolation and joy.  But this is good!  Because the little dear would have grown up to be a murderer...

 

 

It's clear that for @aik, this parable illustrates that what seems like tragedy or injustice actually yields a better outcome in the end.  In a world where the good suffer, where children die painfully, where evildoers prosper, those who believe in a righteous, loving, omnipotent god have always looked for explanations for suffering and injustice.  So I understand the motivation behind a piece like this.  I am sure many people draw consolation from the idea that all will be made right in the end.

 

If a bad thing happens to a good person, there must be some hidden reason.  And that's the problem:  it's always hidden.  We must believe, without any evidence whatsoever, that the deaths of thousands in Ukraine since last year is actually a good thing.  We must believe that the deaths of millions at the hands of Hitler and Stalin was actually a good thing.  The Indian Ocean Tsunami of 2004 killed more than 200,000 men, women and children.  Why?  Either the victims were bad people who had it coming to them, or the children would have grown up to be murderers, rapists or even atheists, so better to kill them before they could choose evil. 

 

Why would intelligent people believe such things?  Because belief in OmniGod requires these explanations to be conjured up.  The belief must be maintained, so some unfalsifiable explanation must be provided.  

 

Recall the story where the child was killed to prevent him from growing up and failing to be saved, whether by evildoing or lack of faith in the right god.  If this was a good thing, why are the majority of people in the world allowed to grow to adulthood when most of them are not "saved in Christ".  Would a just and righteous god not have pushed them off the bridge in childhood too?  Why would he pass up such an act of mercy?  Because it's all nonsense, that's why!  The reality is that people do bad things and people do good things.  The Earth gives us life but also cruelly snatches it away.  The laws of physics play no favorites.  THAT is why creatures suffer: the good, the bad, Christians, Muslims, agnostics and atheists, men, women and children, cats and dogs.  There are forces in the universe - and maybe outside of it - that we may never understand.  But the idea of an OmniGod - all loving, all seeing, all powerful, simply does not add up.  At least one of these attributes must not be true, and then what is left would not be the God of the Bible or the Quran either one.  People are welcome to do whatever mental gymnastics they like to keep the illusion going, but that, in the end, is all it is.

 

 

 

Taba, it is a very interesting respond. I feel pleasure to have this discussion with you. 

 

Our local topic is sufferings in God’s plan. Ok.

 

On 7/28/2023 at 11:23 PM, TABA said:

Recall the story where the child was killed to prevent him from growing up and failing to be saved, whether by evildoing or lack of faith in the right god.  If this was a good thing, why are the majority of people in the world allowed to grow to adulthood when most of them are not "saved in Christ".  Would a just and righteous god not have pushed them off the bridge in childhood too?

In connection with this question i would like to ask, for the sake of answering to it, a small but important question to unbind here. 

 

Why do some criminals or evildoers do their evil and they feel good insinde, they are happy. And they are not punished, neither by god, nor by police?

 

Some other evildoers when they do their evil lose their peace, they cannot find a place to hide from everyone, or they cannot have a peaceful sleeping at noghts. Why? 

 

It seems there must be no difference. The same evil, the biological element called a human, the same natural or universal laws. 

 

The answer to this question is a key to "why does god have variety in his actions toward men?". And it happens not because of the varying nature of god, but of the human. 

 

So why?

[TABA]

9 hours ago, aik said:

Why do some criminals or evildoers do their evil and they feel good insinde, they are happy. And they are not punished, neither by god, nor by police?

 

Some other evildoers when they do their evil lose their peace, they cannot find a place to hide from everyone, or they cannot have a peaceful sleeping at noghts. Why? 

 

Some evildoers are conflicted, they do bad things but often realize they have done wrong.  They are somewhat torn between their actions and their morality.  

Others have moral standards that allow them to do bad things with a clear conscience.  The human mind is complex and in many ways not well understood.  
 

So what is your point here, aik?

[aik]

17 hours ago, TABA said:

 

Some evildoers are conflicted, they do bad things but often realize they have done wrong.  They are somewhat torn between their actions and their morality.  

Others have moral standards that allow them to do bad things with a clear conscience.  The human mind is complex and in many ways not well understood.  
 

So what is your point here, aik?

Conscience is not clear when a man does evil without internal conflict. It is not because of a clear conscience. It is because the conscience is burnt out. I am putting here an accent. 

 

Try to recollect the first time when you lied to your parent when you were a child. Maybe it was log ago. And it could be forgotten. I understand. And maybe it is not seen clearly in everyone's life. Some  people cannot admit that they felt something bad when the tried to lie to their parents. I allow it to be so. But in my experience whoever was asked and was able to remember this, everyone knows that it was not a simple thing to lie to a parent for the first time, especially when you are grown up. I mean intentional lie.

 

But at the second time it is not so painful to do so again. Because you have an experiance. And goind ahead the more you lie then, the more easy it becomes to be done. At the end point a man loses its ability of feeling and does whatever he wishes without having any conflict inside. 

 

Actually the conscience is not clear but burnt out. This is the meaning of that term when the Bible speaks about it. 

 

Your statement is not so correct because there are men who were braught up in the same cultural and moral standards but they have different attitude to evildoing. For example two brothers, and one of them can be a criminal and love to be so, and the other one is also a crimiinal but he hates to be so. The moral standard plays its role of coourse, but there are absolute indicators in a man form God which is not subdued by moral standards. 

 

So based on that thing of conscience a man than will choos to do this way or that way. And it will bring him to a proper result, or he will be saved or he stays perished. God by his essence know prehand what is going to happen in future. Otherwise he would not be God. He also knows what everyone of us will choose in the future. And based on his wisdom he helps a man to come to repentence. Sometimes God allows a man to do what his stubborn mind tells him to do. Because he was warned by God but did not obey him once, twice and thrice. So he goes according to his choice then.

[DOA]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:58 PM, aik said:

The bible says that christian faith brings happiness to a believer, and nothing else is able to do it in such a manner. But the bible also shows why some people may be not happy being a christian. Aee you interested to know it in details?

Being a believer doesn't bring much happiness when you're among a bunch of people who tell you they have the truth yet they disagree with their own.

 

Christians drive people OUT of Christianity, AKA the Church and some continue to believe and some not.  The ones who drove me out are the influential ones like John MacArthur, Ken Ham, Hanky Hanegraaf, and the like..

[DOA]

On 7/28/2023 at 5:59 AM, aik said:

Truly, the ways of the Lord
Are not human,

That there is precisely what drove me out!  TRINITY- A man being god!

 

Trinity is 100% pure nonsense!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

3 hours ago, DOA said:

 

Trinity is 100% pure nonsense!

 

Amen, brother!