Are some teachings of the bible salvageable?

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

I'm starting this one for @Mick_Revisited and @Weezer just because this subject has come up more than once lately. This would also be a good one to tag @RankStranger in if he's still stopping by from time to time.

 

It is my understanding from watching you converse on Abigails thread that Weezer feels some of the biblical message is salvageable such as the Golden rule. And Micks stance is that none of it is salvageable because the bad parts make the good parts null.

 

I tagged Rank because he has recently reconverted to a form of Christianity that leaves out all the bad and focuses on the good. Its a very modified almost Buddha form of Christianity.

 

I personally think that there are teachings that are salvageable just as good advice. I also agree there is a lot of bad in the bible and toxic beliefs. But for now I'm just gonna eat some popcorn and see what yall have to say.

 

DB

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I believe the bible is the effort of human beings.  NOT GOD.  And that humans are not perfect, or always correct in eveything they do.  Therefore you have to use your own filter to decide what is prudent.  If we nullified or discarded everything that was not 100% perfect, we would have very little left.  In a sense, we have to be our own "god" and decide through logic, rational thinking, science, and studying the gurus of the world, to decide what is best for us and the world.

 

 Each of use have to decide which parts are true, or valid.  And we will never get everyone to agree entirely with with our way of thinking.  But sometimes we spend inordinate amounts of time trying to do so.

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

I believe the bible is the effort of human beings.  NOT GOD.  And that humans are not perfect, or always correct in eveything they do.  Therefore you have to use your own filter to decide what is prudent.  If we nullified or discarded everything that was not 100% perfect, we would have very little left.  In a sense, we have to be our own "god" and decide through logic, rational thinking, science, and studying the gurus of the world, to decide what is best for us and the world.

 

 Each of use have to decide which parts are true, or valid.  And we will never get everyone to agree entirely with with our way of thinking.  But sometimes we spend inordinate amounts of time trying to do so.

 

 

 

I think some teachings in the bible are salvageable as good advice and sometimes good tid bits of wisdom. But to do that you have to be able to separate it out like you said. Take some and leave some. To really make a point I'd like to go through and just bring up some other good examples when I have time to just sit down and really ponder on it for a little while. 

 

I can see how if someone feels that the bible must be taken as a whole how they would see that the bad nullifies the good. After deconversion it does seem that the bad is far more weighty.

 

But I think that is a damaging view in some ways. Many of us devoted large portions of life and time to the faith before deconverting. To have every single thing we ever were taught about the bible to be considered a waste is a little hard to take. At first I felt that way but now I'm able to use all the bible knowledge that I obtained during the faith to use in counter apologetics. It is very satisfying for me to be able to do that to help out this community. 

 

But on top of that I can now weed out the bad. Ultimately the bible was written by ancient people in very different mindsets than what we have today. They could have never fathomed what the world would one day become. They were just doing their best, during their time, with their limited knowledge, and in their culture to do what they felt was right. And amongst all that primitive ideology, theology, and cosmology there are good teachings. 

 

I would say the Golden rule is number one. Except for the God part. And your right. By adding one "O" to God you can "Love Good with your whole heart and love thy neighbor as thyself. 

 

(Segway warning) Interestingly enough I preached a sermon one time on the Golden Rule and how Jesus truly summed up the ten commandments in that one sentence. I'm sure most preachers did at some point. If one loves God with their whole heart they will keep the first 4 commandments. Because they all pertain to God. And if You love your neighbor as yourself that takes care of the other six. Not to steal, kill, covet not your neighbor etc. I thought it was pretty good at the time. Seems like a lifetime ago now. 

 

Anyway, I want to give this some more thought and come up with some other scripture that might fit the topic. 

 

DB

[TheRedneckProfessor]

"Loving your neighbor" could go either way where the adultery one is concerned. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

40 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

"Loving your neighbor" could go either way where the adultery one is concerned. 

 

If you love both your neighbors you'll only do that of they are swingers. Then its ok  

[WarriorPoet]

I heard one of the guys on the Non-Prophets make an analogy once.  This isn’t going to be anything close to a direct quote, but the idea is the same.

 

You go to a bakery that in your opinion makes the best bread you’ve ever had.  You get some and take it home.

 

At home, you have a garden where you grow delicious fresh vegetables.  You select some perfect lettuce, a freshly ripe tomato*, and an onion and take it inside.

 

You take some deliciously aged cheese out of your refrigerator.

 

 

Now you start assembling.  

1 slice of bread

Whichever condiments you like

Lettuce, sliced onions and tomato

One slice of cheese

 

And then you top it all off with a turd and another slice of bread.

 

At this point, no matter how good the other ingredients are, I’m sure everyone would agree that what you have here is nothing more than a shit-sandwich.
 

 

 

*Yes, I know.  You pedantic twit.  

[RankStranger]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:42 AM, DarkBishop said:

I'm starting this one for @Mick_Revisited and @Weezer just because this subject has come up more than once lately. This would also be a good one to tag @RankStranger in if he's still stopping by from time to time.

 

It is my understanding from watching you converse on Abigails thread that Weezer feels some of the biblical message is salvageable such as the Golden rule. And Micks stance is that none of it is salvageable because the bad parts make the good parts null.

 

I tagged Rank because he has recently reconverted to a form of Christianity that leaves out all the bad and focuses on the good. Its a very modified almost Buddha form of Christianity.

 

I personally think that there are teachings that are salvageable just as good advice. I also agree there is a lot of bad in the bible and toxic beliefs. But for now I'm just gonna eat some popcorn and see what yall have to say.

 

DB

 

 

Hey DB- how is your walk with Jesus these days?

 

IMO there's a lot in Christianity that I could argue is 'salvageable'  Prayer for instance.  But there's no need to strip it for parts- that's not how it works.

 

You don't believe in God, right?  Are you still able to pray to Him?

 

 

[RankStranger]

Also I'd take issue with the word 'salvageable' here.  The implication (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that the 'bad parts' of the bible are so heinous that they have to be thrown out... and any 'good parts' salvaged.  This moral objection to the bible's content seems to be at the root of a lot of exChristians' beef with Christianity- it definitely was for me.

 

And now it feels like kindof a moot point.  

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

2 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

And now it feels like kindof a moot point. 

Hmm interesting, I'll make a better reply later. I just got a call to go work on something. But yes I do believe there are huge chunks of scripture that could be thrown out as not having any value other than "what not to do". Like dashing infants against stones. Or a rapist paying for his victim to be his bride. Rules for slave owners could probably be thrown out to. As that suggests slavery is OK as long as the rules are followed. 

 

Which one of those things would you want to keep Rank?

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Ok @RankStranger,

 

You know the perspective which we come from. Some of us see no merit in any of the Bible, that the whole thing could be scrapped and that the world would be better off without it. Honestly knowing the history of the Christian church and the atrocities theirs and other abrahamic beliefs have committed in the name of their God over the centuries. I don't know that they are wrong. But we can't change the past. I wish we could see an alternate world where polytheistic beliefs remained dominant. Could be better, could be worse. Who knows?

 

The parts that I feel are salvageable are any of the wholesome across the board teachings. Unfortunately most of those encouraging scriptures are tied into believing in the abrahamic God. But with a tweak here or there it can be encouraging for anyone. Like Weezer did with the Golden rule. Another good one would be the first psalm. Let's see if we can make that one work. 

 

I'm gonna tweak verses 1-4. I think 5 and 6 can pretty well be trashed. 

 

Psalm 1

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of criminals, nor standeth in the way of evil men, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law; and in the law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

4 criminals are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

 

There.... thats much better. Take all that God BS out and poof. You got good advice for anyone. For the most part in life if we abide by the law and set achievable goals a person will prosper. 

 

Now on a different level I find some of the myths interesting. But that is because I have a good imagination. I can just picture ancient nomadic tribesman sitting around a fire. Children asking questions about things they saw during the day. Maybe it was a snake. And their dear ole dad begins to spin this fantastic tale of God creating the world and creating man, only to have that ruined by the wily snake. Now cursed the snake continues to kill men with its venom and they better obey their parents, the law, and God or he will kill them too!! 

 

Or maybe a child asks why a traveler spoke another language. And their father expounds the tale of the tower of babel. 

 

Many many very interesting stories for an ancient people who didn't know what we know today. But that is the only merit I can give the myths. Unless you've adopted a more mainstream belief in the past year I'm sure you don't even give much credit to the creation myth or the flood of Noah. A good point about the flood of Noah that might could be used today is to always be prepared for an emergency situation. Thats a stretch tho. 

 

Best Regards,

DB

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

@Weezer

 

What do you think about the book of Ecclesiastes? In it "the preacher" usually believed to be Solomon but probably not is analyzing life. In the book he realizes that everything we do on earth is essentially in vain. I don't particularly agree with that, and it is a shame that a man considered to be wise wouldn't be able to see the merit his own life has in the world. Or anyone else's for that matter. But some of the things he covers is true. As the old saying goes. We can't take it with us when we die, right? That seems to be the jest of the whole study. In the 12th chapter he comes to a conclusion. His conclusion is bleak and reminds me of Job.

 

"10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

 

He says that of making books there is no end and much study is a weariness to the flesh. Which is true. But there is great profit from study. Whether it is ones beliefs or just to enlighten ones self with knowledge. 

 

I think it is sad that the author believes that FEARING God and keeping his commandments is the WHOLE duty of man. Loving one another, being kind to one another, those are all applaudable acts of man. I should probably read the whole book again now that I'm a non believer. 

 

DB

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 6/15/2023 at 11:41 PM, RankStranger said:

You don't believe in God, right?  Are you still able to pray to Him?

 

I don't believe in the Cristian God so if I did pray it wouldn't be the same as before. I do believe in a creator entity that I refer to as the Grand Architect. But I don't fervently believe. Its not like I feel I have to pray every day or at all. Whatever "God" may be out there doesn't seem to Interfere with our lives for the most part. It obviously isn't all knowing and it doesn't love everyone. There is the occasional unexplained phenomena that could be attributed to some diety or another. 

 

Honestly I don't know how I would go about worshipping what I think God might be. I would like to set up an area for meditation but ex Mrs. Bishop isn't to keen on alternate beliefs. I've pointed out lately how its messed up for her to be uncomfortable with my beliefs and expect me to be OK with hers. But...... thats a topic for another thread.... or not. I want to develope my own mix of Wicca, shamanistic, Buddhism. Complete with pentagram, candles, meditation, incense, and Chakra. All that good heathen stuff that Christians dislike. 

 

So yes I would like to feel a connection to what I believe is the most plausible possibility of deity. And if I felt the notion to, I would pray. 

 

DB

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Ha!  Right now I don't want a connection to anyone who would put us in the mess we are in.

[RankStranger]

On 6/26/2023 at 11:19 AM, DarkBishop said:

Hmm interesting, I'll make a better reply later. I just got a call to go work on something. But yes I do believe there are huge chunks of scripture that could be thrown out as not having any value other than "what not to do". Like dashing infants against stones. Or a rapist paying for his victim to be his bride. Rules for slave owners could probably be thrown out to. As that suggests slavery is OK as long as the rules are followed. 

 

Which one of those things would you want to keep Rank?

 

I'd like to keep all of them.  Also throw in some talking donkeys and implausible creation/flood stories.  

 

The nastier parts of the bible- in the Old Testament anyway- were written by nomadic bronze-age herders in the desert.  IMO it's totally unreasonable to expect their values and perceptions to be anything like ours.  Their more objectionable stories reflect the nastiness that all us humans are capable of IMO.

 

Also IMO, God would have to be so much bigger, more complex, and more unknowable than we humans can perceive.  Think of an ant trying to comprehend your own life.  I think God would fully understand and be more than capable of any sort of horrible behavior that we humans could come up with.  I know the bible says in several instances that God is Good... period, end of story.  But to me the Old Testament makes it clear that God both creates and embodies both good and evil.  The bible pretty much says as much in some verses, and demonstrates it in lots of others.  I'm not sure I could take seriously a naïve God who's ignorant and incapable of 'evil'.  

 

And I'd like to point out that you can find similarly objectionable ideas in the mythology of just about any religion.  Why do you reckon that is?

[RankStranger]

On 6/26/2023 at 12:59 PM, DarkBishop said:

Ok @RankStranger,

 

You know the perspective which we come from. Some of us see no merit in any of the Bible, that the whole thing could be scrapped and that the world would be better off without it. Honestly knowing the history of the Christian church and the atrocities theirs and other abrahamic beliefs have committed in the name of their God over the centuries. I don't know that they are wrong. But we can't change the past. I wish we could see an alternate world where polytheistic beliefs remained dominant. Could be better, could be worse. Who knows?

 

The parts that I feel are salvageable are any of the wholesome across the board teachings. Unfortunately most of those encouraging scriptures are tied into believing in the abrahamic God. But with a tweak here or there it can be encouraging for anyone. Like Weezer did with the Golden rule. Another good one would be the first psalm. Let's see if we can make that one work. 

 

I'm gonna tweak verses 1-4. I think 5 and 6 can pretty well be trashed. 

 

Psalm 1

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of criminals, nor standeth in the way of evil men, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law; and in the law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

4 criminals are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

 

There.... thats much better. Take all that God BS out and poof. You got good advice for anyone. For the most part in life if we abide by the law and set achievable goals a person will prosper. 

 

Now on a different level I find some of the myths interesting. But that is because I have a good imagination. I can just picture ancient nomadic tribesman sitting around a fire. Children asking questions about things they saw during the day. Maybe it was a snake. And their dear ole dad begins to spin this fantastic tale of God creating the world and creating man, only to have that ruined by the wily snake. Now cursed the snake continues to kill men with its venom and they better obey their parents, the law, and God or he will kill them too!! 

 

Or maybe a child asks why a traveler spoke another language. And their father expounds the tale of the tower of babel. 

 

Many many very interesting stories for an ancient people who didn't know what we know today. But that is the only merit I can give the myths. Unless you've adopted a more mainstream belief in the past year I'm sure you don't even give much credit to the creation myth or the flood of Noah. A good point about the flood of Noah that might could be used today is to always be prepared for an emergency situation. Thats a stretch tho. 

 

Best Regards,

DB

 

 

Keep in mind that on the scale of humanity... I'm not the outlier here.  Most of us human apes are religious.  Nearly all religious people believe in things that come from mythology- I don't think that much is controversial.  I'd further argue that all of us humans believe in a variety of mythologies, though said 'myth' may or may not be of a religious nature.  There are plenty of secular mythologies that people hold with religious conviction.  Political ideologues are easy examples of this, but there are plenty of others.

 

I have no problem with you separating the morality from the mythology if that's what you need to do, to take it seriously.  But those moral lessons won't have the same impact or effect on your life as they will for a religious person.  There's more to understanding than just reading words in text.  Try as we might, we're not computers.  We're not even remotely logical, IMO.

 

Can you pray on those moral lessons?  Can you discuss them in good faith with your elders and peers and talk about how these ideas interact with other ideas from your native culture?  Can you sing about it?  Can you hold these ideas sacred, and express joy and admiration for the power that created this world, including those moral lessons?

 

If you could, these moral lessons would impact you differently than just reading the text and agreeing that it's a good idea.  We humans are built to do these sorts of things.  It's not logical and it shouldn't be.

 

 

 

 

[RankStranger]

On 6/26/2023 at 1:46 PM, DarkBishop said:

@Weezer

 

What do you think about the book of Ecclesiastes? In it "the preacher" usually believed to be Solomon but probably not is analyzing life. In the book he realizes that everything we do on earth is essentially in vain. I don't particularly agree with that, and it is a shame that a man considered to be wise wouldn't be able to see the merit his own life has in the world. Or anyone else's for that matter. But some of the things he covers is true. As the old saying goes. We can't take it with us when we die, right? That seems to be the jest of the whole study. In the 12th chapter he comes to a conclusion. His conclusion is bleak and reminds me of Job.

 

"10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil."

 

He says that of making books there is no end and much study is a weariness to the flesh. Which is true. But there is great profit from study. Whether it is ones beliefs or just to enlighten ones self with knowledge. 

 

I think it is sad that the author believes that FEARING God and keeping his commandments is the WHOLE duty of man. Loving one another, being kind to one another, those are all applaudable acts of man. I should probably read the whole book again now that I'm a non believer. 

 

DB

 

It's been a long time since I read Ecclesiastes, but I liked it even as an Atheist.  I didn't agree with his conclusion at the time, but I probably would now.  A lot of the book is compatible with Buddhism in that he talks about the impermanence and futility of everything we do and experience as humans. 

 

And remember, this guy in Ecclesiastes lived in a totally different world than we do.  Totally different language, culture, life experience, etc.  I seriously doubt that his notions of God and his commandments was the same as ours, or any Jew or Christian around today.  It's one of many reasons why I'm not a fundamentalist.

 

My notions of God are probably heretical to a lot of Christians... but that's their problem not mine 

[RankStranger]

On 6/26/2023 at 6:05 PM, DarkBishop said:

 

I don't believe in the Cristian God so if I did pray it wouldn't be the same as before. I do believe in a creator entity that I refer to as the Grand Architect. But I don't fervently believe. Its not like I feel I have to pray every day or at all. Whatever "God" may be out there doesn't seem to Interfere with our lives for the most part. It obviously isn't all knowing and it doesn't love everyone. There is the occasional unexplained phenomena that could be attributed to some diety or another. 

 

Honestly I don't know how I would go about worshipping what I think God might be. I would like to set up an area for meditation but ex Mrs. Bishop isn't to keen on alternate beliefs. I've pointed out lately how its messed up for her to be uncomfortable with my beliefs and expect me to be OK with hers. But...... thats a topic for another thread.... or not. I want to develope my own mix of Wicca, shamanistic, Buddhism. Complete with pentagram, candles, meditation, incense, and Chakra. All that good heathen stuff that Christians dislike. 

 

So yes I would like to feel a connection to what I believe is the most plausible possibility of deity. And if I felt the notion to, I would pray. 

 

DB

 

 

Nothing wrong with trying out other religions IMO.  But be aware that this can be a gateway drug, so to speak.  If you learn to meditate, at some point you will be tempted to pray.  Be careful what you ask for 

 

 

[RankStranger]

12 hours ago, Weezer said:

Ha!  Right now I don't want a connection to anyone who would put us in the mess we are in.

 

Can you be more specific?  Not suggesting that we're not in a mess... but best I can tell we always have been.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

4 hours ago, RankStranger said:

 

I'd like to keep all of them.  Also throw in some talking donkeys and implausible creation/flood stories.  

 

The nastier parts of the bible- in the Old Testament anyway- were written by nomadic bronze-age herders in the desert.  IMO it's totally unreasonable to expect their values and perceptions to be anything like ours.  Their more objectionable stories reflect the nastiness that all us humans are capable of IMO.

 

Also IMO, God would have to be so much bigger, more complex, and more unknowable than we humans can perceive.  Think of an ant trying to comprehend your own life.  I think God would fully understand and be more than capable of any sort of horrible behavior that we humans could come up with.  I know the bible says in several instances that God is Good... period, end of story.  But to me the Old Testament makes it clear that God both creates and embodies both good and evil.  The bible pretty much says as much in some verses, and demonstrates it in lots of others.  I'm not sure I could take seriously a naïve God who's ignorant and incapable of 'evil'.  

 

And I'd like to point out that you can find similarly objectionable ideas in the mythology of just about any religion.  Why do you reckon that is?

 

I agree with everything you said here. Except keeping everything, I'll explain why after I've replied to your other posts.

 

Those are all fine reasons not to believe in the biblical God. I personally believe if there is a God its a very hands off God. And let's us do our thing. Whether its good or bad. That in itself is an act of evil. By not intervening when evil happens. 

 

Everything you just said does not reflect the overall biblical God we find in scripture. 

 

DB

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

3 hours ago, RankStranger said:

But those moral lessons won't have the same impact or effect on your life as they will for a religious person. 

I believe this is opinion as well. You can't say how something will have an impact on someone's life or gauge it on a scale based on religious or non-religious as you just said. We non-teligious people are the outliers..... for now. But I believe that this is the start of our next big era. Ya had the Dark ages, the Renaissance, branze age, iron age, industrial revolution, now the age of capitalism. I believe the age of rationality is upon us when we begin to let go of those ancient irrational ideologies in favor of more studied and fact based ideologies. 

 

3 hours ago, RankStranger said:

Can you pray on those moral lessons?  Can you discuss them in good faith with your elders and peers and talk about how these ideas interact with other ideas from your native culture?  Can you sing about it?  Can you hold these ideas sacred, and express joy and admiration for the power that created this world, including those moral lessons?

 

Yes I believe songs could be sung, poems made, or even sculptors created to reflect all the good ideas. It is just that up to this point most of our inspiration has come from beliefs based on religion. Its kind of irrational to think that songs couldn't be sung about inspirational or wise people and their ideas when Jesus himself was just another person that inspired a change in ideology himself. Yes it was based on an older faith. But it didn't really reflect that older faith. 

 

DB

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

3 hours ago, RankStranger said:

 

It's been a long time since I read Ecclesiastes, but I liked it even as an Atheist.  I didn't agree with his conclusion at the time, but I probably would now.  A lot of the book is compatible with Buddhism in that he talks about the impermanence and futility of everything we do and experience as humans. 

 

And remember, this guy in Ecclesiastes lived in a totally different world than we do.  Totally different language, culture, life experience, etc.  I seriously doubt that his notions of God and his commandments was the same as ours, or any Jew or Christian around today.  It's one of many reasons why I'm not a fundamentalist.

 

My notions of God are probably heretical to a lot of Christians... but that's their problem not mine 

I'm reading over it again myself. I'm on chapter 5. Just reading it again in spare time and reflecting on what is being said and what the author wanted to relay to us. I'll make another post later about it when I've refreshed my memory on the book as a whole. 

 

DB

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

3 hours ago, RankStranger said:

 

 

Nothing wrong with trying out other religions IMO.  But be aware that this can be a gateway drug, so to speak.  If you learn to meditate, at some point you will be tempted to pray.  Be careful what you ask for 

 

 

I will proceed with caution   its not as big a deal for me tho. I never was fully athiest, still just trying to find the truth as always. 

 

DB

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

5 hours ago, RankStranger said:

I'd like to keep all of them.  Also throw in some talking donkeys and implausible creation/flood stories.  

 

This is why I think it would be good to "take away" some of it. 

 

I agree all of these lessons were probably acceptable and relatable in their time. But now humans as a species have evolved past these beliefs. And it is these beliefs that slow our progression moving forward.

 

We can't move forward as a species when we are still fighting millenia long wars sparked by these beliefs in the crusades. 

 

We can't have equality when the predominate religious ideologies of the world are against equality for women, LGBTQ community, slaves, people of other faiths, etc

 

We NEED these TOXIC beliefs to go away so that we can commit our focus, as a species, to better ideologies that promote individual freedom, space exploration, taking care of our planet and each other simultaneously. These beliefs are counter productive. So yes, in this respect I believe at the very least these archaic toxic beliefs shod be taken out and the religions should be restructured.

 

And it isn't like it hasn't been done before. We already know that the Bible was updated atleast 4 times in ancient days. I submit that it was edited atleast 5 times as now we know that by the time the bible was put together as we know it, most traces of the more ancient polytheistic pantheon of El had been erased except for a few Instances here or there which we can still see. 

 

Thankfully the Ugarit tablets were found that give us a glimpse into that era. 

 

Like I said, its nothing new. Even Christians changed it with forgeries in the new testament as beliefs moved past the life of the apostles. The early church believed Jesus would be back before the apostles died. When that didn't happen (poof) 2nd Peter was born. 

 

DB

[◊ Weezer ◊]

7 hours ago, RankStranger said:

 

Can you be more specific?  Not suggesting that we're not in a mess... but best I can tell we always have been.

 

That was said with tongue in cheek.  Not being serious.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

10 hours ago, RankStranger said:

 

The nastier parts of the bible- in the Old Testament anyway- were written by nomadic bronze-age herders in the desert.  IMO it's totally unreasonable to expect their values and perceptions to be anything like ours. 

 

Food for thought.  Is it possible the Bible was fabricated by sly masterminds who were experts at creating a fear based religion that would help them control the masses of people??  That is certianly what the Bible accomplished.  And is still very effective at doimg so.