HOW DOES THE BIBLE AND CHRISTIANITY AFFECT OUR SENSE OF SELF??

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 11/13/2023 at 6:47 PM, walterpthefirst said:

Do you now see what I meant by it was much worse, DB?  The grand lie swallowed by all Christians, in defiance of what scripture clearly says, is that Adam and Eve were to blame.  No!  A million times, NO!  NO THEY WERE NOT!  I don't often shout but I'm going to do so now.

You have studied this point out thoroughly since last I read you talking about this. It is a really good point but still. The devout Christian is probably not going to be able to see it. 

 

You really bring out through scripture how God did the same thing to Adam, Eve, and The serpent (now known as the devil) as he did to Pharoah. Through the way you explain it here it is obvious. And may even lead to someone's deconversion one day. I know if I was Chrsitian and that clicked in my mind In would begin to question. 

 

It appears that the God of Abraham has what is called Hero Syndrome. Where he himself creates a disparity so that he can be the one to come in and save the day by giving everyone the gift of salvation through Christ Jesus. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_syndrome

 

Lol Christians worship a mentally I'll God. That's funny. Ok... no it's not. It's sad  

 

Good Job expounding your point Walter  

 

DB

[walterpthefirst]

8 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

You have studied this point out thoroughly since last I read you talking about this. It is a really good point but still. The devout Christian is probably not going to be able to see it. 

 

 

Really?  Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that a devout Christian is probably unwilling to accept what they see?  I say that because my argument makes no great demands of a Christian's intelligence.  They should have the ability to see it.  But, given the way that cognitive dissonance works, once their intellect allows them to see the argument they will then instinctively recoil from it's conclusion.  At that point they will be unwilling to accept it.

 

 

8 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

You really bring out through scripture how God did the same thing to Adam, Eve, and The serpent (now known as the devil) as he did to Pharoah. Through the way you explain it here it is obvious. And may even lead to someone's deconversion one day. I know if I was Chrsitian and that clicked in my mind In would begin to question. 

 

 

But only if you could handle the cognitive dissonance that resulted from your seeing what a bastard god really is.

 

 

8 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

It appears that the God of Abraham has what is called Hero Syndrome. Where he himself creates a disparity so that he can be the one to come in and save the day by giving everyone the gift of salvation through Christ Jesus. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_syndrome

 

Lol Christians worship a mentally I'll God. That's funny. Ok... no it's not. It's sad  

 

Good Job expounding your point Walter  

 

DB

 

Thanks for that info, DB.  I wasn't aware of the Hero Syndrome.

 

 

Walter.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

31 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

Really?  Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that a devout Christian is probably unwilling to accept what they see?  I say that because my argument makes no great demands of a Christian's intelligence.  They should have the ability to see it.  But, given the way that cognitive dissonance works, once their intellect allows them to see the argument they will then instinctively recoil from it's conclusion.  At that point they will be unwilling to accept it.

That's still them not being able to see it. No matter how it happens. 

 

32 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

But only if you could handle the cognitive dissonance that resulted from your seeing what a bastard god really is.

As always my hope is that some questioning Christian will come by and see an argument like you made and they will finally have that AH HA! Moment like we had. It's different for everyone that deconverts. 

 

34 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

Thanks for that info, DB.  I wasn't aware of the Hero Syndrome

No problem, 

It makes me wonder why these ancient people thought this was acceptable from God. You showed it yourself in Romans. They believed this back then and were ok with it. That God caused sin to pass upon mam to begin with. And then cured it. Why? Just so that we would be devoted to him? And accept his gift? 

 

How is that acceptable? Maybe they had the mentality like Ed. God is mysterious and shit and we shouldn't question him. 

 

Non of what you expounded is taught that way now. But it appears that back then it was and they didn't mind. 

 

My modern mind 2,000 years later had trouble with this. Maybe they saw this type of abuse so much with their kings and such that it just made sense for God to be the same way? 

 

DB

[walterpthefirst]

It makes me wonder why these ancient people thought this was acceptable from God. You showed it yourself in Romans. They believed this back then and were ok with it. That God caused sin to pass upon mam to begin with. And then cured it. Why? Just so that we would be devoted to him? And accept his gift? 

 

How is that acceptable? Maybe they had the mentality like Ed. God is mysterious and shit and we shouldn't question him. 

 

Non of what you expounded is taught that way now. But it appears that back then it was and they didn't mind. 

 

My modern mind 2,000 years later had trouble with this. Maybe they saw this type of abuse so much with their kings and such that it just made sense for God to be the same way? 

 

 

I'd agree, DB.

 

Let's not forget that life was cheap then and as you say, kings and rulers were absolute tyrants.  They had the power to slay their own citizens on a whim, with no reason given and no justification needed for the action.  That's just how things were back then and you just accepted it as the norm.

 

Even the so-called enlightened Greeks, who experimented with democracy, kept slaves and treated them as property and not as human beings with their own intrinsic dignity and rights.

 

It's only in the last five hundred years that the concepts of justice for larger and larger parts of the population have really taken hold.  In both of our nations our individual rights and freedoms are enshrined in law, based upon the principle of a person's innate value.

 

So, no wonder our modern minds recoil in disgust at the idea of an absolute ruler with no regard for his subjects slaves!

 

 

 

But then that raises another awkward question.

 

Why the **** would a modern day Texan (who presumably holds the Constitution of his country in high regard) be so willing to throw away all of his hard-won freedoms and rights  - to bow and scrape at the feet of an absolute tyrant?

 

Any ideas, DB?

 

 

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

 

[jen2174]

the bible messes with everything and do does its followers and pastors, teachers. I never met a single christian who didnt have a rotten seething attitude and lousy advice. They were all about serving the lord, and denying yourself. their whole lives was about ministry and any time they saw that god was not answering prayer they just get angry at themselves for wondering what god was up to.

 

To me, it damged my mind deeply, i have a messed up identity now, self worth and self esteem have to be rebuilt now because i heard for years i was a rotten sinner that deserved death and that everything i did was wrong. this is a little too personal but i hate how masturbation is considered a sin and i hated this so much, that alone was worth leaving the faith for because if you never have sex it really helps you to hang on. i hated the premarital sex is a sin crap too. 

i am an artist and felt guilty when i painted things that were more me and not god or wasnt inspired  by.  i felt like i had to write a blog or do something for god or pray for people or else. i hated tithing but took money i barely had to my name and gave it thinking god was going to multiply it, he never did.

it does a real number on the human mind and then you have to clean up the mess of it all once you leave.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

4 hours ago, jen2174 said:

To me, it damged my mind deeply, i have a messed up identity now, self worth and self esteem have to be rebuilt now because i heard for years i was a rotten sinner that deserved death and that everything i did was wrong.

I grew up without a sense of self.  Everything that I was had to be suppressed and "crucified with christ."  My desires, my needs, my emotions, expressions, assertion--anything that was "me"--was sinful, prideful, disdainful, et cetera.  So I came into adulthood without ever really knowing who I was.  This caused a lot of problems in my adult life.  I would constantly find myself in intolerable situations because I had no voice of my own.  I had no Self of my own to speak for.  I found identity in whatever group I was with, whether it be social or work or whatever else; because I had no identity of my own.  I don't know if I eventually grew up enough and gained enough wisdom, or if I just finally got fed up living that way; but, at some point I decided it was high time I got in touch with my Self and figured out who I really am.  I quickly discovered that I only had little fragments and broken pieces of a Self; and not nearly anything like a "whole."  So I set about the work of cobbling those pieces together and trying to figure out what the "whole" should be like.  Fortunately, being a true redneck, I'm pretty handy with string and duct tape.  To my pleasant surprise, I realized that all of the missing pieces of me were actually like clean slates or blank canvas that I could create however I chose.  I think that has been the greatest freedom of all: the liberation, not just to be my Self, but to create my Self as only I know how. 

 

Anyway, it's nice to have a fellow Tarheel in the community again.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

The perfect Christian is a robot!!  

[jen2174]

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I grew up without a sense of self.  Everything that I was had to be suppressed and "crucified with christ."  My desires, my needs, my emotions, expressions, assertion--anything that was "me"--was sinful, prideful, disdainful, et cetera.  So I came into adulthood without ever really knowing who I was.  This caused a lot of problems in my adult life.  I would constantly find myself in intolerable situations because I had no voice of my own.  I had no Self of my own to speak for.  I found identity in whatever group I was with, whether it be social or work or whatever else; because I had no identity of my own.  I don't know if I eventually grew up enough and gained enough wisdom, or if I just finally got fed up living that way; but, at some point I decided it was high time I got in touch with my Self and figured out who I really am.  I quickly discovered that I only had little fragments of broken pieces of a Self; and no nearly anything like a "whole."  So I set about the work of cobbling those pieces together and trying to figure out what the "whole" should be like.  Fortunately, being a true redneck, I'm pretty handy with string and duct tape.  To my pleasant surprise, I realized that all of the missing pieces of me were actually like clean slates or blank canvas that I could create however I chose.  I think that has been the greatest freedom of all: the liberation, not just to be my Self, but to create my Self as only I know how. 

 

Anyway, it's nice to have a fellow Tarheel in the community again.

Your in NC? cool. not many make it out of the faith in this state.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Just now, jen2174 said:

Your in NC? cool. not many make it out of the faith in this state.

I was born and raised near Salisbury.  I don't live there anymore; but I still have a small farm on some family land there.  Have a Cheerwine for me, next chance you get!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

17 minutes ago, jen2174 said:

Your in NC? cool. not many make it out of the faith in this state.

And a beautiful state it is!