◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I know this is dipping into politics, but in ths case politics and religion are "melded". And if they get Trump elected, the oppressive fundamental religion, which we rail against on this site, and try to help people escape, will be even more powerful. The people involved in trying to make us a "Christian" nation, are not the "love neighbor as self" sect! They are giving "liberal" Christians a bad name. They use the Old Testament God tactics of authoriatian power and control, and are masters at doing so. They have wealth behind them, and have been filling government positions for decades in local school boards, cities, counties, state and nation, including the supreme court. Donald Trump may think he has them in his pocket, but they are using him as a pawn in their game, and if Trump wins the election for president, he will likely make appointments, fire anyone opposing him and them, and put them "over the hump" and into position to wreck havoc with our democracy and separation of church and state. Government funds will be paying for religious schools, and public school teachers bringing "christianity" into the classroom. Authorities no longer protecting the abuse of "ungodly" minorities will likely take place. (and they get to decide who the minorities are) And multiple problems due to their interpretation of what "God" wants. And, by the way, with their rigid thinking, thier own arguments about what god wants might bring even more division to our fragmented society. Think about all these potential problems with a Trump win when you vote! And before you vote, let your congressmen know how you feel about separation of church and state. And support that separation in any other way you can. I am supporing "Americans United" (for separation of church and state). Christian Nationalism scares me more than Trump! Feel free to list any other potential problems you can think of below. P.S. If they tear down the wall between church and atate, what will happen in future years when/if Muslims outnumber Christians?? Have any of them thought of that? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 The Christian nationalism that you speak of Weezer is indeed a very worrying thing. But will it spill over to affect nations and governments beyond the US borders? AFAIK no other country has the unique blend of right wing politics and Christianity that we see in the US. Nervous observers like me in other countries are hoping that the rule of law will prevail and that Trump will end up in prison and not the White House. That outcome should stymie or at least delay the plans and ambitions of America's Christian Right. But I'm an outsider and may not see things with the clarity of a native American. What say you? Walter. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ moxieflux66 ☆ Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 3 hours ago, Weezer said: Feel free to list any other potential problems you can think of below. How about a really recent one....among many? https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/3/3/2227135/-Why-IVF-and-Abortion-Both-Very-Different-and-Importantly-the-Same-Have-the-GOP-Trapped https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/02/christian-nationalism-alabama-ivf-ruling-politics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ moxieflux66 ☆ Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 47 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: AFAIK no other country has the unique blend of right wing politics and Christianity that we see in the US. Really? That's sort of encouraging and depressing at the same time. But thank you for the perspective. We need it here. 48 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: Nervous observers like me in other countries are hoping that the rule of law will prevail and that Trump will end up in prison and not the White House. Nervous observers here too, like me. It's been a long slog since 45....and it's still ongoing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, walterpthefirst said: Nervous observers like me in other countries are hoping that the rule of law will prevail and that Trump will end up in prison and not the White House. Someone said if he can delay trials long enough to get elected, as soon as he is in the White House, he can pardon himself. I’m not familiar with the law enough to know if that is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 4 Super Moderator Share Posted March 4 Moved topic to the Opine Club. While christian nationalism by itself may be a topic befitting our community, the inextricable link between christian nationalism and MAGA make this topic better suited to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Moved topic to the Opine Club. While christian nationalism by itself may be a topic befitting our community, the inextricable link between christian nationalism and MAGA make this topic better suited to this forum. If we are truly interested in protecting people from toxic christianity, we should have this topic front and center. Not on the back page. Have you consulted the other moderators and Dave? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 Also, the instructions for ranting does not specify what we can rant about, and my rant is more about the dangers of toxic religion and keeping them from getting a tigher grip on people. I would like to prevent kids in schools (and others) from getting indoctrinated into toxic christianity, as well as helping them escape it years later, like we do here. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted March 4 Moderator Share Posted March 4 11 hours ago, Weezer said: If we are truly interested in protecting people from toxic christianity, we should have this topic front and center. Not on the back page. Have you consulted the other moderators and Dave? Your concerns are understandable, Weezer. This issue is at the intersection of religion and politics. The Prof has the authority and the good judgement to make this call as he sees fit. I will probably weigh in on the topic soon, regardless of which section it is in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 4 hours ago, TABA said: Your concerns are understandable, Weezer. This issue is at the intersection of religion and politics. The Prof has the authority and the good judgement to make this call as he sees fit. I will probably weigh in on the topic soon, regardless of which section it is in. Our concern on this forum is toxic christianity and helping people to escape it. This is about not allowing it to get a tighter grip on society than it already has. If we can do that, we can keep fewer people from going through the hell it creates in peoples lives. Are we going to be like “God” and allow more people to suffer so we can save them? Where are our priorities??? Surely Professor after all the fine posts he has made about God and suffering understands my point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 And hopefully we will all vote in the presidential election to keep Christians from getting a tighter grip than they already have! If we don’t, I believe we are hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 4 Super Moderator Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Weezer said: Surely Professor after all the fine posts he has made about God and suffering understands my point. I do. I also understand that what unites our community is that we have left toxic religion behind us and wish to help others do the same. That is all that unites us, nothing else. We are not united by liberal politics, socialist economics, or left-wing social programs. In fact, we are a highly diverse group when it comes to politics, economics, and social ideas and opinions. For this reason, among a host of others, this website must remain apolitical, in order to best serve those we are here to serve. Unfortunately, as you have already demonstrated, we cannot discuss christian nationalism without also discussing Trump and his MAGA base (a large percentage of whom are christian nationalists). Discussing Trump is itself a highly divisive prospect; and doing so often invariably leads to also discussing abortion, IVF, the Southern border, immigration, LGBT+ issues, and a litany of other social, economic, and political ideas, which have nothing to do with the primary purpose of our community or the goal of this website; and which, in times past, have done damage to our community and caused people to leave. This thread is, therefore, in the Opine Club forum, where such topics can be discussed out of earshot of those it may negatively impact. And here it will remain. Have a good day. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 5 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: I do. I also understand that what unites our community is that we have left toxic religion behind us and wish to help others do the same. But we are not about preventing it in the first place?? So our position is, let it happen so we can help others. 5 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: We are not united by liberal politics, socialist economics, or left-wing social programs. Who has even mentione that? You read that into the discussion. 5 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: we cannot discuss christian nationalism without also discussing Trump Yes we can. Christian Nationalism began long before Trump, and is much bigger than Trump. He is only mentioned because he could possibly be in a position to catapult the "christians" into power. There is no need to discuss anything about the border, IVF, abortion, erc. My concern is about christian nationalist spreading their toxic religious beliefs with government money, resulting in more people coming here (and similar places) in years to come. There is no need to discuss any other divisive political issues, other than how to keep the toxic christians from gaining control and spreading their "gospel" any further. I don't believe anyone here wants that to happen. I want to hear what the other moderators and the regular members have to say. I know this is not a democracy, but I believe free speech is supposedly valued here. But it seems some want to cut it off ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 6 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: This thread is, therefore, in the Opine Club forum, where such topics can be discussed out of earshot of those it may negatively impact. And here it will remain. It is interesting you would say that after all the name calling and disrespect that has gone on in the Lion's Den in the past, and is still posted on the open forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 5 Super Moderator Share Posted March 5 @Weezer, I have said all I intend to say on the matter and I am not going to change my mind. You're welcome to accept it and move on; or you can appeal directly to Dave yourself via DM. Have a good day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 6 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: @Weezer, I have said all I intend to say on the matter and I am not going to change my mind. You're welcome to accept it and move on; or you can appeal directly to Dave yourself via DM. Have a good day. I guess we are both doing what we feel we need to do. I intend to continue doing what I can to stop Chrisitan Nationalism. History shows how mixing religion with state is a dangerous mix, and the more it is mixed, the more it is a problem. I don't normally get this excited about anything, but this scares the crap out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 34 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: you can appeal directly to Dave yourself via DM. I won't bother Dave. I'm sure he will see this sooner than later, and would very likely back his moderators unless they were REALLY out in left field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted March 5 Moderator Share Posted March 5 I’ve decided to respond to Weezer’s topic, but I do so with a good deal of trepidation. I understand Weezer’s concerns, but I also understand and support @TheRedneckProfessor’s decision. I hesitate because the US population seems to have become largely divided into opposing camps. It’s hard to not fall into line with one or the other, both of whom are sure the country is finished if the wrong guys win the next election. This ex-christian community of ours has done a great deal of good over the past two decades or more. I hope that @webmdave gets a great deal of satisfaction from knowing that what he started and has supported over the years has changed so many lives for the better. I am proud to be even a small part of it, and I value my fellow members and the contributions they make. I am sorry to have seen several members leave over the years because in spite of their shared support for deconversion, sharp differences and acrimony arose over political differences. I know that others left because they wanted to talk about politics and became frustrated when the options were restricted. That said, I do want to respond to Weezer’s concerns about Christian Nationalism. There will surely be areas of both agreement and disagreement. Knowing, liking and respecting Weezer as I do, I hope and believe it will be a useful discussion. Because I’ve gone on for for a bit here, my actual comments on the matter will have it wait for my next post… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin webmdave Posted March 5 Admin Share Posted March 5 On 3/3/2024 at 9:40 PM, Weezer said: If we are truly interested in protecting people from toxic christianity... "These forums exist for the express purpose of encouraging those who have decided to leave religion behind." https://www.ex-christian.net/guidelines/ Although the stated purpose of this site is about "encouragement" and not about "protection," per se, the topic of Christian Nationalism is undoubtedly of interest to some here and I support the decision to allow discussion of this topic in the Opine section. As an aside, a new documentary on Christian Nationalism entitled "God and Country" is currently showing in select theaters. The trailer for the movie can be viewed on Vudu and will be available there for streaming sometime in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted March 5 Super Moderator Share Posted March 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 Sadly they are not showing it in Wichita, Ks. Which is no surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 Do any of you know if there is an official stance from American Catholic’s on Christian Nationalism? There are a lot of them in Kansas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted March 5 Moderator Share Posted March 5 I haven't seen the God and Country movie, or even the trailer. I hope to see it soon. Meanwhile I just read this review, whose writer is sympathetic to the concerns expressed by the movie-maker. I also haven't paid any attention to these Christian Nationalists, so I am only vaguely familiar with their aims. Again, I hope to learn more. Meanwhile, looking at how the US is structured, how the Constitution works and at the current political scene, I think that efforts to inject Christianity more into public life would be most successful at the local level, such as school and library boards, as well as in state legislatures where there is a Republican majority. Since the overturn of Roe v Wade, a number of red-state legislatures have passed VERY restrictive abortion laws. I had thought that having legal abortion up until the 15+ week mark would be acceptable to much of the population and that if Roe were overturned, most states would adopt such laws, as have most countries in Europe. Instead, many red states have become very restrictive, while a number of blue states have gone in the opposite direction and allow abortion pretty much until full term. Just like the political parties themselves, it seems state legislatures are moving to the extremes, leaving the majority of more moderate voters feeling disenfranchised. But I guess that's what happens when most voters in Primary elections come to the polls straight from watching the hucksters on Fox News and MSNBC. Then in the general election, more moderate voters have many issues to consider when casting their votes. The base voters of the majority party definitely have an outsized influence on their states' laws. The only solution to that is either to go back to choosing candidates in smoke-filled rooms or to somehow induce most voters to show up for the Primary votes. There's little sign of either happening. At the national (federal) level, red and blue are much more evenly balanced, and I think the checks and balances are more robust, so I don't have much concern over extremists gaining significant control in Washington DC in the foreseeable future. I am NOT one of those who are alarmed by the current makeup of the Supreme Court. Personally, I prefer justices who try to interpret the Constitution as it is written, rather than ruling as they wished it were written. I expect mine is not a popular view among non-religious people. So those are my thoughts for now. @Weezer, I trust you will find them interesting and a basis for further discussion. And anybody else who is interested and willing to go out on this limb... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 Thanks for going out on a limb! I believe you have some good insights. Hey, we are in the Opine Club now. Let it rip! 4 hours ago, TABA said: At the national (federal) level, red and blue are much more evenly balanced, and I think the checks and balances are more robust, so I don't have much concern over extremists gaining significant control in Washington DC in the foreseeable future. I believe this is something you need to study further. Look at Mike Johnson, speaker of the house of represenatives. Second in line for president if something happened to the president and vice president. He is a flaming radical christian. Even some republicans in the house are trying to boot him out. Radical christians have been gaining strength in local and state offices for years. They are gaining strength in both branches of national congress. And they are standing in line waiting to get appointed to multiple offices if Trump is re-elected. And on top of that, Trump could very well pardon all those who have been convicted for the January 6th riot, many of which were christian nationalist. He could nullify all the work and millions of dollars spent on administering justice for the riot many believe he encouraged. And he is doing everything he can to avoid going on trial for his part in it. If Trump gets into office he would have the power to tip the balance of power. And pardoning himself for anything he has been convicted of. Christian Nationalist have mega bucks behind them and they are on a roll. The Kochs and other billionaires are bankrolling them and catholic programs. Does it not concern you that 6 of 9 supreme court justices are Catholic? Have you dug into Amy Barrett's background? My opinions about Trump is based on 35 years of evaluating people, at times as part of a multidisciplinary team, for being fit for adopting children; being caretakers of, or having custody of children; for mental problems; for being fit for standing trial; etc. I basically agree with what his Psychologist niece (Mary Trump) has said about him in her books. I believe he is a grandiose, delusional, full blown narcissist. He is a wannabe dictator. But even with all that, I fear the Christian Nationalist he can put in power, more than him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ moxieflux66 ☆ Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 8 hours ago, Weezer said: Sadly they are not showing it in Wichita, Ks. Which is no surprise. Often you can get free trials (usually 7 days) of almost all the big channels. See if you can get one to watch the documentary and then cancel it afterward (or you have to pay). I've seen lots of good movies and docs that way. Just go to Vudu's website. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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