Continuing Fear...

[JeffXL]

These quotes should help end your fears of Hell:

 

http://www.religionisbullshit.org/end_fear_hell.html

[...]

Glory!

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you! That's an excellent compilation. And great advice, too!

 

Rosa, one thing that's helped me is the realizaton that Hell is an invention. Not being mentioned in OT at all really is a problem for Xtians.

 

Remember, they really need Hell, otherwise no one would waste his or her time with that bullshit. They pound it into our heads early on, and it bubbles up in me on occasion, too.

 

Then I remember the OT's lack of hell references, plus the hells that exist in other religions; most of all, Christians of many sects think that those that don't belong to theirs are headed t' hell, too!

 

No one has a chance in hell.

[Guest JP]

I know how you feel, Rosa. I still have the hell fears as well, but they've weakened. I even went a step further and believed I had committed the unforgivable sin, and that was pure terror and to tell you the truth, I've still not completely recovered from it.

[Rosa Mystica]

This is all good advice I'm getting!

 

A lot of what's being said here does make sense. Of course, I still have to overcome the wretched idea that one must not use rational thought if they want to be "saved". It's difficult, but I know that the *only* way to find the answers I'm looking for is to search *honestly* and not in a way that favours one group over another.

 

O_M, what you said about sparing my children this fear really hit me on an emotional level. I won't go into detail about this, but Roman Catholicism triggered an obsessive-compulsive condition in me before I hit my teens (long story, there!). It's lessened some now that I've left, but I would *never* want my future child to go through this. Of course, I'm still seeking, so who *knows* what I will believe in a few years from now. I just don't want what happened to me to happen to a future generation, kwim?

 

And again- thanks everyone.

 

Rosa

[jasonwhatever]

Hi Jp: Sorry I haven't sent you pics yet; I tried tonight but couldn't find your email address. I still intend to do that as I have my computer up now.

 

Jp: as far as feeling the terror about having committed the unpardonable sin, I know exactly how you felt. I had a 6-month period when I was 19 where literally I was in constant terror, and I do mean terror. This was not like being scared...I was in a panic state, feeling utterly damned, etc. You feel like you want to hide, but of course you feel like there's nowhere you can go to hide from God. It's torture. After I got out of that phase, I then felt blessed, like I was one of the elect and chosen. I felt beloved of God. And I interpreted it that when I had felt condemned, it was only God calling me to Himself, as Paul Said that God rebukes every son whom He receives. But for six months? "Whoever shall fall upon This Rock shall be broken..." Then I felt grateful to God afterward for loving me so much to torture me into repenting (repenting of what, I don't know. I lived practically as monk in the country up until then.) What gave me such dread is the fact that I believed and was baptized at 9 or 10 in a Baptist Church. Then as a senior in high school, I wrote a paper called "The Religious Imagination," in which I denied that there is a God. I felt that then I had fallen away, sold my birthright, was damned. If it was God's Spirit that was rebuking me, then He must have been lying to me or at least misleading me....because I felt damned, like I could never be forgiven. Then I felt I was forgiven and healed again spiritually. During that six month period, I worked in a pizza shop, and everytime I would pass the ovens I would cringe. I thought "how much worse hell must be."

 

As many on here know, I have been going through somewhat of a similar thing during the last seven months, expecting to be stricken down by God, etc. I truly wish I had never been "converted" by the Baptist missionaries as a kid. It has adversely affected my whole outlook on life since even back then. I have never enjoyed my life fully, followed my talents and interests, etc, because of always feeling like to enjoy life means being unfaithful to The Lord; and I have always felt like the end of the world is like next year or something. I had a period of about 7 years where I truly felt many times where I felt great joy in The Holy Spirit....feelings of total elation, as if The Holy Spirit was upon me strongly, and I would feel like I was beaming with pure and true light. It is unexplainable.

 

Hopefully I'm just ill in my head. And there's a possibility of this too, as looking back on my life, during that period between my childhood church years and later after reconversion at 19, I did have some very dark periods. Feelings of gloom, doom, being extremely anxious, worrying all the time, a very withdrawn extremely shy child, etc have been the trademarks of who I was growing up.

I remember the summer before I went to college, I thought that I was dying. I thought that I would just go and enjoy the school year, whatever part of it I would live through, and enjoy it while it lasted. I had a period of very terrible darkness also where from a Christian perspective I would have viewed it as that I must have been being tormented by demons.

 

One interesting thing is that I'm very artistic and also have done a lot of poetry, and people have long thought of me as a bit "odd," eccentric, etc. Perhaps all this is my imagination. But it truly has felt unbelievably real. The mind is a powerful weapon....and mine has always persecuted me.

[Guest Emerson]

It won't work going back to xtianity because you'll still have that fear hanging over your head. You ask xtians why they converted and many will tell you they did it because they did not want to end up in hell. Its done for "insurance" now why would you want to worship a god like that?

 

Just deal with your fears Rosa, I encourage you to search other religions, and not just from a christian perspective. Read about Ancient cultures. It'll help you see the bigger picture of how xtianity and other religions have come to be known. I still believe in a higher power, but I just can't believe in the man-made ideas of god anymore. Everything from xtianity to islam to buddhism has been man-made, man-created, man executed.

 

Take a world religions course at a local community college, take Art history, take World History to learn about how cultures have come about. Educate yourself Miss Rosa, knowledge really is power.

Just because you don't believe in xtianity doesn't mean that there isn't another belief out there for you. You know? I think religious truth is relative. We can never know absolute truth, we can never really know. All we can do is make the best conclusion with the information that's out there and with what we have. That's all anyone could ask out of anyone.

 

I don't want to sound rude or unsympathetic, but how is this your thread Jason? Please don't take someone else's thread on their fears and turn it into your own. Why do you always do this??? I understand you have a lot of fears Jason, but yuo just seem to preach and turn everything into you on this forum.

[All Gods Fail]

This is all good advice I'm getting!

 

A lot of what's being said here does make sense. Of course, I still have to overcome the wretched idea that one must not use rational thought if they want to be "saved". It's difficult, but I know that the *only* way to find the answers I'm looking for is to search *honestly* and not in a way that favours one group over another.

 

And again- thanks everyone.

 

Rosa

 

Well, that's what this site is for - helping others (and ourselves) get over the effects of cult brainwashing. And that's really what xtianity is - a cult (if you don't think so, just ask some Jewish folks).

 

And like most cults, it is easy to get in, but tough to get out; especially the more radical sects. There are a lot of safeguards built into it to discourage escape - like damnation, discouraging critical thinking, etc. Scared and stupid is pretty much how they want you to go through life.

 

The whole point is keep those seeds of fear nurtured, and they can really take hold. I myself eventually had a nervous breakdown due to indoctrination, and suffered massive depression. I really wish I could have found a place like this to hear the other side of the story - I think it would have prevented a lot of needless suffering.

 

Anyway, just remember the church needs you a lot more than you need it. And most of the higher-ups don't even believe in it, anyway. If they did, they wouldn't be hoarding gold and diamond mines - they'd be living in a tent and giving everything to widows and orphans.

[monsterfeets]

I don't have any great advice or anything, the advice given has been fantastic so far. I just have my experiences. I just have to say I totally can relate completely to these feelings and I am still experiencing them sometimes. But what helps me is just taking a moment and putting those thoughts in the back of my head, and then looking at the world around me. I do not seem to feel any fear then. Just looking at nature, at the sky. Also hanging out with non-believing friends, playing with my pets. I feel a sense of peace and happiness, not that I am in imminent danger. You would think that if I were in danger of eternal damnation, God would be relentless in persuing me. But that hasn't been the case. I find happiness in so many things that seem to 'go against' god as well, and it was just as genuine as when I used to feel happiness from God. I do not think, that if the only joy that existed was God, and that the only love that mattered was God's, that I could love or be happy without him. (Personally I still believe in God, just not that any religion has a monopoly on him, but that's just me)

 

Another thing that has helped was just looking at all the different religions of the world and seeing how much those other gods meant to people and how personal their faiths were as well. It helped me to realize that there was likely no "one true religion" and that it just didn't seem possible at all that Hell awaited most, if any, human beings. Despite what they may or may not believe.

 

I know it is hard though, when I first decided I just couldn't believe it, the next morning I woke up terrified. But everything was also very clear, clearer than it had been in a long time. Actually it felt alot like I've felt at the end of relationships in the past. Hah. Weird comparison, but that's what it felt like. The same sense of lostness-but-freeness. The sense of losing something that probably wasn't really there, or didnt matter much, in the first place. But after a while the pain lessened and I think my "breakup" with Christianity only helped my relationship with the real God, or the Spirit or the Universe or maybe just Myself.

 

I am not sure if going back is ever a possibility. It wouldn't ever be the same. There will always be that doubt there now. I considered going back a few times, but realized I would be being dishonest. I certainly could not go back to taking it all literally, and if I wasn't going to take it literally then well, there wasn't much of a point in labelling myself Christian anyway.

 

Okay I will stop babbling now but I really do hope you find a way to overcome the fear soon. It's a process though, like everything in matters of spirituality and the heart. You might not ever find an answer but as long as you keep your mind open and keep asking questions you can only get closer to the truth. Surely no real God could hold that against you.

[chefranden]

Rosa,

 

From your descriptions, it sounds to me that you are suffering from PTSD. Your trauma is basically child abuse, being frightened by hell over and over. I'm not saying that was deliberate child abuse, but it certainly had the same effect.

 

chef, he's only a cook.

[LosingMyReligion]

I used to have this fear to RoseMystica. However, it is less pervasive now.

 

I still wonder sometimes, "What if the Christian hell and god is real?" or "What if I miss the rapture?"

 

Then I catch myself and realize that is christian programming. They convert you so completely and hell is their failsafe. The church keeps control over the congregation with fear tactics. Just think about it...If God was about love, mercy, and freedom of choice these pastors and mega churches would not have all the money that they have. They have to keep people believing that they will die and goto hell if they aren't faithful...

 

What helped me most of all was coming to this site and learning about the history of Christianity myself.

 

Furthermore, why should we be unfortunate enough to spend all eternity with that SOB in the bible? Honestly, I don't see a big difference between spending eternity with satan or with Bible God.

[Guest JP]

I'm sick of all the doubt I have regarding religion and God/Satan.

 

On the one hand, I know it's gotta be bullshit. The rational side of me is fighting back. But on the other, because of things that have happened in my life and coincidences and such, it really does make me wonder.

 

I remember when I first thought I had committed the unforgivable sin right after I had my prayer for help during my HIV scare 'answered.' (See my testimony for more information.) Since I was then believing in God again, I guess it reminded me of all the unforgivable sin issues I had in the past that I had forgotten about, and I began to have bad thoughts about the Holy Spirit again. I remember having them and thinking, "well, at least I haven't said it out loud." And BAM! Right then, at that very moment, a memory I had long since buried in my mind surfaced with a vengeance: I had once uttered the dreaded phrase that I had been warned by someone never to say or I would be damned: 'God and Satan are one.' It came out of nowhere and hit me like a sack of bricks.

 

What gets me about that is the timing of the return of the memory. I hadn't thought of it in years, and right when I thought about not having said anything out loud, there it was. Almost like it was presented to me. My fear is that Satan waited for the perfect time to throw that memory back in my face, knowing that it would shatter me emotionally. I know, memories surface all the time that we've forgotten about, but it still really bothers me.

 

Plus a bunch of other little things have happened that still make me doubt.

[narcissist]

Ditto to everyone else. I'm probably going to repeat others here...

 

I think it's just a matter of giving it time. Don't rush yourself. You've spent however many years/decades having the hell "programme" pounded into your brain, soit's going to take time for your brain to deprogramme and reprogramme to something that's closer to the truth. This is how it worked with me. It's been 5 years since I finally gave up on Xny, but I'm still dealing with brain programming issues (different from yours) to this day.

 

I got over the hell fear, and other things, by reading lots and lots of books and websites, *especially* the ones the christians wanted me to avoid (Spong, Dawkins, Darwin, etc, etc...), and by doing things that christians told me not to do (well, some of them anyway) only to find that the consequences weren't what the christians programmed me to expect. It's all part of the deprogramming process.

 

Remember, what's so loving about that sort of fear?

 

At the end of the day, I'd rather spend an eternity in hell my fellow 'sinners' such as yourselves than one hour in heaven with that bastard god and his self-righteous, fundamentalist, arse-kissing minions.

[Llwellyn]

Hi Rosa! We've met before on that OTHER forum -- Christian forums!

 

I'm so sorry that you feel so anxiously traumatized by the Christian teaching of divine vengeance.

 

I think the best way to get over it is to develop a kind of faith that substitutes the prior theories of God that you were taught.

 

I have come to have faith that the operation of divine punishment is always calculated to correct its object, and that by synergistically cooperating with it, and learning the lessons it would teach us, we can unite with God. This religion is called "Platonic Theism" and "NeoPlatonism."

 

Now, I don't have to worry about divine destruction, because I trust that there is no omnipotent deity who destroys for the sake of destruction.

[Ouroboros]

Byrdlady, seriously. Stop using Caps and structure your sentences a bit. It's impossible to read. And nothing of what you're saying makes sense either. Your post looks like those stupid spam emails I get occasionally. No context, just chaos of words.

[Guest Emerson]

byrdlady, having doubts and questions doesn't mean that its god or the devil speaking to Rosa or anyone else for that matter. And no you don't know, no one knows what happens when a person dies.

[white_raven23]

Birdlady22.......go back to school and learn the meaning of the words, "sentence structure".

 

I MIGHT GET KICK OFF THIS FORUM FOR SAYING SOMETHING POSITVE IF I DO WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU.

 

Oh! I know! That you are rude and have no forum etiquette?

 

Mods...this bitch WANTS to be banned....kind of like that guy wanted to be put to death as an Al Queda supporter for the attacks on 9-11. He got life in jail instead. He did not get the satisfaction he sought, and I hope this dumb twit doesn't either.

[Llwellyn]

It's amazing that Christians think that their message is somehow "positive": "The Bible is true, God responds to human evil by destroying the human or Christ as his substitute. God will destroy all unconverted people!" Doesn't this make you happy? Isn't this so super great?" "Please don't ban me for being so upbeat and optimistic!"

 

That's like a Viper telling you that you should be grateful that he is injecting "medecine" into your bloodstream.

[Rosa Mystica]

Byrdlady, for your information, MANY religious systems tell their followers the exact same thing you're telling me. You know what I see that as? A manipulative fear tactic. If your NDE is so "real", please explain to me why others who have allegedly seen God/Jesus were told messages that completely contradicted yours? You don't know where anyone is going. Who the heck made you the ruler- and judge- of this universe?

 

May I ask who's a mod around here? I'd like to report her for harrassing me off the open forum as well.

[Guest JP]

I was under the impression that Christians weren't allowed to post in the Ex-Christian Life category.

[Rosa Mystica]

I was under the impression that Christians weren't allowed to post in the Ex-Christian Life category.

 

I think they're allowed to post, but not to preach/witness.

[Cynetix]

Well, I can't take religious advice from anyone who lists "money" as their god.

[Rosa Mystica]

Well, I can't take religious advice from anyone who lists "money" as their god.

 

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself.

[Lycorth]

Then why don't you change it? I noticed that, too, and it's still funny - and confusing

[white_raven23]

If you never almost die then you wouldnt know how it feels I just want rosa to know not to be afraid.

 

Oh? You think no one here has never "almost died"? We risk our lives every day, every now and then we get faced with how dangerous living really is.

 

This is a repost from here: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=8787&st=20

 

It's my own experience, and NO it's not comforting......but it is honest.

 

I had a cold moment of pure terror a few months ago. The plane I rode was attempting to land in Athens Greece, and there was a horrendous lightning storm raging. The turbulence was.....memorable.

And I was terrified, and enraged too. The rage came from realizing my "safety blanket" really was gone. It was the first time since abandoning my religion that I'd felt on the brink of my own mortality. And I was furious (because it wasn't like I could DO anything about it). The plane dropped.......and caught itself a couple of times. Some folks screamed.

 

And I realized with cold certainty that every movie I'd ever seen when a life threatening situation "turned" a person back to their culturally acceptable faith, was a total lie.

 

Though I also admit, much of my rage came from a mild envy. Because turbulence on a plane used to make me quite placid. Awaiting the "inevitable". I realize now that is correct sheeplike behavior, and is not something to admire.

At the end of the flight (people clapped), the airport closed to outgoing flights (gives you an idea of the severity we went through). I walked to the Metro contemplating my emotional state, and I asked myself......could I or would I ever trade my knowledge and understanding for the peace and comfort (though false) offered by religion?

 

I realized the answer was a resounding NO. Which....actually made me feel pretty good.

 

Please note the section I bolded. Fear is something to respect and pay attention to. Not avoid. You do not overcome fear by hiding from it using religion as a shield. The fear will still be there. And if religion has it's way...it will even be encouraged to grow needlessly. The only way to overcome fear is to look it in the eye and FACE it.

You do not overcome fear, or deal with fearful situations by placidly waiting for god to step in and either make everything all warm and fuzzy again, or for him to sweep you into his arms and save you.

 

Later, I realized that had the plane really fallen out of the sky....the pressure drop would have been too rapid for my brain to handle, and I would have lost consciousness (and therefore subject to whatever blissy dream my subconscious selects as suitable 'pre-death distraction'....what you understand as a Near Death Experience).

 

The fact I was able to BE afraid was therefore actually a 'good' thing, as it meant the crew was still in control of the plane.

 

So don't try to coddle Rosa Byrdlady. Fear has a function. A purpose. To protect a person from being afraid is to rob them of a learning experience (granted an unpleasant one).

[white_raven23]

How come everything I say everyone takes it to the heart ? I just gave my view thats all if rosa dont want to take it fine. I never told you what not to say white raven. I have respect for everybody and seems like people always turn things into something else when inside you got common sence.

 

Did you read the purpose statement of this particular forum?

 

Ex-Christian Life

A forum to discuss how ex-Christians have dealt with family members, replaced the church as a place of community, reactions of your family, friends, church, acquaintances upon learning of the de-conversion, or anything else relevant to the Ex-Christian Life.

 

There is a LOT of "heart" stuff going on in these threads. We still occasionally joke a bit...but when we do it's obvious.

 

In case you missed it, as ex-christians....we don't welcome the easy fix-all religion falsely offers.

 

If you can offer comfort here without making it about religion...you are welcome to do so. But understand that "jezuz" is NOT a solution here.

[white_raven23]

who is jezuz ?

 

 

Last I checked, he's a literary figure in a book of questionable validity, possibly based at one point on the life of a man whe may or may not have gone by the name jesus. In this book he is elevated to the position of the divine son of a supreme being....much like Athena, Hercules, Osiris, and many many other half-blood gods and heroes in mythologies that pre-date the religion that tries to claim this man as the one and only son of a divine being.