Continuing Fear...

[Rosa Mystica]

good' thing, as it meant the crew was still in control of the plane.

 

So don't try to coddle Rosa Byrdlady. Fear has a function. A purpose. To protect a person from being afraid is to rob them of a learning experience (granted an unpleasant one).

 

I don't call her treatment "coddling". I call it forcing her views on me. I don't respond very well to that sort of treatment.

 

If you think your tactics are going to make people convert to your religion, byrdlady, then think again. Many people are less likely to believe if others try to force it on them.

[Rosa Mystica]

Rosa,

 

From your descriptions, it sounds to me that you are suffering from PTSD. Your trauma is basically child abuse, being frightened by hell over and over. I'm not saying that was deliberate child abuse, but it certainly had the same effect.

 

chef, he's only a cook.

 

It very well could be. I suffered much physical and mental abuse from my parents as well. I experience anxiety attacks before seeing my family. I suspected PTSD due to their treatment, but never as a result of exposure to Catholicism.

 

What made you come to this conclusion, if I may ask?

[white_raven23]

good' thing, as it meant the crew was still in control of the plane.

 

So don't try to coddle Rosa Byrdlady. Fear has a function. A purpose. To protect a person from being afraid is to rob them of a learning experience (granted an unpleasant one).

 

I don't call her treatment "coddling". I call it forcing her views on me. I don't respond very well to that sort of treatment.

 

If you think your tactics are going to make people convert to your religion, byrdlady, then think again. Many people are less likely to believe if others try to force it on them.

 

Oops, I guess I was unclear.....coddling was the method. I meant it as an adjective for the "tone" she was attempting....but was but a disguise for the true intent...which you obviously nailed.

 

She thinks she's offering comfort....but only by pretending to have the power to remove that which you as a human being need, as bad as it feels at times.

[Rosa Mystica]

Look rosa I felt sorry for you what that heck is wrong with you do you have common sense. I force nothing on no one I dont have a weapon and say rosa do this or else. Whats wrong with you.

 

You don't need to use a weapon to be coercive.

 

Nothing is wrong with me, byrdlady. I have *plenty* of common sense, thank you. I'm going to find the answers I seek. So in a way, I'd like to thank you. Your negative response to me helped strengthen my convictions that I *can* make it through this.

[Guest Emerson]

I'm sorry Rosa that you have to take this persons abuse. I think that its a member trying to get their kicks in a mean way. Christians are sick people, now every mean pm she sends me I'm going to send it to the mods until they do something about it. No one deserves to be harrassed.

[Rosa Mystica]

I'm sorry Rosa that you have to take this persons abuse. I think that its a member trying to get their kicks in a mean way. Christians are sick people, now every mean pm she sends me I'm going to send it to the mods until they do something about it. No one deserves to be harrassed.

 

Not every Christian is like her- assuming she's even Christian. I try my best to judge people by their character, not their religion/belief system.

 

Thanks for standing up for me, though. Like I said to you in another thread, she sent me a harrassing pm as well (which I reported). Hopefully, she'll be banned permanently.

[Guest JP]

I'm sorry Rosa that you have to take this persons abuse. I think that its a member trying to get their kicks in a mean way. Christians are sick people, now every mean pm she sends me I'm going to send it to the mods until they do something about it. No one deserves to be harrassed.

 

She sent me a PM, too. It wasn't very mean, just asking why we could post anything we wanted to and she couldn't or something to that effect. Meh, I deleted it.

 

And I'm digging your ever-chaning avatars, by the way.

[Guest Emerson]

yeah, ugh! but I'm trying to calm down, and one of the mods said they were looking into it, so I feel better. Yeah and I know in my mind that you're right Rosa, not all xians are like that, but honestly most of them make me want to run the other way. lol.

 

Thanks JP!

[Joyous1]

byrdlady, where did you get those voluptuous pagan sex-goddess images that you display in your posts? Are you an artist, did you create them yourself?

 

 

 

Rosa mystica, here I thought laughter was the best medicine but byrdlady has reminded us, sometimes you need a "hair of the dog that bit you" to ease the pain of the bite.

[white_raven23]

You guys can block Byrdlady from PMing you. Add her to your buddy list, go into your control panel, click on PM Buddy list/Block list. Choose to Edit and you will be given an option for receiving messages from that person or not. Click on No.

 

She can't "harass" anyone she can't reach. It's up to you to decide how much she's going to effect you.

 

I really really don't want to see her banned. I think a lot of christians come on here aiming to get banned. They act like asses, they get insulting. They get banned, and feel elated for being "persecuted for their gawd". And they get the impression that since heathens like us couldn't "handle" them, that their bullshit really is 'Da Troooth'. I prefer not to give such people the 'power' of believing they have any impact on me whatsoever.

 

I find these people useful. They are a helpful reminder that real live intolerant jerks are out there, and dealing with them here can help you prepare for the (hopefully) random encounter you might experience in real life. Because like it or not, the reason WE are here, is because there are so many of THEM out there. And knowing there is a place like this one, where we are not alone, helps us defend ourselves from those pushy religious folk.

 

Of course this is just my own opinion, and I know other people have had rougher experiences that have left them raw, scarred, and wounded. If an offensive christian starts messing with that, I do agree they should be uninvited to the party.

[Cynetix]

Look rosa I felt sorry for you what that heck is wrong with you do you have common sense. I force nothing on no one I dont have a weapon and say rosa do this or else. Whats wrong with you.

 

Sorry but I think my stab regarding you having "money" listed as a god earlier was deserved and will not be retracted. The word "none" fits in that space as easy money and could have been put there the first time. If you think its being to harsh, its really not. When someone gives "serious" opinions or advice, I just like to consider my sources.

 

Another thing I have no use for: someone claiming to be a "christian" who dares infer that because another's beliefs, thoughts or other values differ from their own, that person lacks common sense. Who put you up on a pedestal with a gavel to pass down judgement and a book with all the answers to life's "test"? I know I don't have them, and don't claim to.

 

This is a place for people to meet, talk and hopefully learn. Maybe even heal. Judging by the thoughtless comments you have haphazardly arranged, at best, you can only offer a twisted form of empathy, which by no means will even vaguely offer anyone here a "way" to true peace. So, unless you have something to offer as a "be all, end all" that the collective who post on this forum haven't previously heard and rejected, I would kindly refer you to something that you can obviously use: A Helping Hand For You. Once you've finished that, try this: Netiquette. Then come back an post. Progress would be most pleasing to my eyes, at least.

 

Or, you could do us all a favor and don't go away angry...just go away. Either way, enjoy the links.

[mostlyharmless]

So, I guess my question is this: how do I handle extreme fear that's coupled with extreme disgust of a system that I think of going back to sometimes simply b/c I'm scared, and no other reason? How do I deal with the fact that I don't think I shall *ever* revere such a sickening conception of God again, despite sometimes feeling an obligation to do just that? How on earth can I go back to something that has totally destroyed me emotionally, the way the Christian system has done to me?

 

I don't know what to do. My emotions are conflicted. I just want peace of mind, dammit! Being Catholic did *not* bring me peace- but neither does being ex-Catholic! How in the world can I achieve this elusive goal?

 

I hope I don't sound weak-willed to anyone here. I'm trying- honestly, I am. But I'm stuck right now, and don't know what to do. I wish I'd never been exposed to this stuff!!!!!

 

There- I feel a bit better now.

 

Rosa

 

You don't sound weak-willed at all. Nobody ever "willed away" fear. Will is over-rated, IMO.

 

If you are suffering extreme anxiety, one option is to undergo cognative therapy. You may be able to find a therapist in the Yellow Pages that deals with cognative therapy. It is often used to treat anxiety. Basically, cognative therapy sets about modifying your beliefs, expectancies, assumptions, and styles of thinking. For example, a person may have the belief, "I am worthless." The aim of cognative therapy would be to change this belief so that the person realises that they do matter.

 

It will probably help if the therapist you choose is not very or not at all religious.

 

Hope this helps.

[mostlyharmless]

I MIGHT GET KICK OFF THIS FORUM FOR SAYING SOMETHING POSITVE

 

Nope. No danger of that happening. Being kicked off for brow-beating however...

 

Hi Jp: Sorry I haven't sent you pics yet; I tried tonight but couldn't find your email address. I still intend to do that as I have my computer up now.

 

Jp: as far as feeling the terror about having committed the unpardonable sin, I know exactly how you felt. I had a 6-month period when I was 19 where literally I was in constant terror, and I do mean terror. This was not like being scared...I was in a panic state, feeling utterly damned, etc. You feel like you want to hide, but of course you feel like there's nowhere you can go to hide from God. It's torture. After I got out of that phase, I then felt blessed, like I was one of the elect and chosen. I felt beloved of God. And I interpreted it that when I had felt condemned, it was only God calling me to Himself, as Paul Said that God rebukes every son whom He receives. But for six months? "Whoever shall fall upon This Rock shall be broken..." Then I felt grateful to God afterward for loving me so much to torture me into repenting (repenting of what, I don't know. I lived practically as monk in the country up until then.) What gave me such dread is the fact that I believed and was baptized at 9 or 10 in a Baptist Church. Then as a senior in high school, I wrote a paper called "The Religious Imagination," in which I denied that there is a God. I felt that then I had fallen away, sold my birthright, was damned. If it was God's Spirit that was rebuking me, then He must have been lying to me or at least misleading me....because I felt damned, like I could never be forgiven. Then I felt I was forgiven and healed again spiritually. During that six month period, I worked in a pizza shop, and everytime I would pass the ovens I would cringe. I thought "how much worse hell must be."

 

As many on here know, I have been going through somewhat of a similar thing during the last seven months, expecting to be stricken down by God, etc. I truly wish I had never been "converted" by the Baptist missionaries as a kid. It has adversely affected my whole outlook on life since even back then. I have never enjoyed my life fully, followed my talents and interests, etc, because of always feeling like to enjoy life means being unfaithful to The Lord; and I have always felt like the end of the world is like next year or something. I had a period of about 7 years where I truly felt many times where I felt great joy in The Holy Spirit....feelings of total elation, as if The Holy Spirit was upon me strongly, and I would feel like I was beaming with pure and true light. It is unexplainable.

 

Hopefully I'm just ill in my head. And there's a possibility of this too, as looking back on my life, during that period between my childhood church years and later after reconversion at 19, I did have some very dark periods. Feelings of gloom, doom, being extremely anxious, worrying all the time, a very withdrawn extremely shy child, etc have been the trademarks of who I was growing up.

I remember the summer before I went to college, I thought that I was dying. I thought that I would just go and enjoy the school year, whatever part of it I would live through, and enjoy it while it lasted. I had a period of very terrible darkness also where from a Christian perspective I would have viewed it as that I must have been being tormented by demons.

 

One interesting thing is that I'm very artistic and also have done a lot of poetry, and people have long thought of me as a bit "odd," eccentric, etc. Perhaps all this is my imagination. But it truly has felt unbelievably real. The mind is a powerful weapon....and mine has always persecuted me.

 

Hi Jason,

 

Sounds like you have bipolar or possibly some other serious illness. Please don't be offended by the question I am about to ask, but have you told a mental health professional, in particular, a psychiatrist, about your history?

[mostlyharmless]

THE FEELING OF FEAR IS GOD TELLING YOU THAT YOU ARE CHOOSEING THE WRONG PATH.

 

Is this the part where you're being positive?

 

THROUGH HIM IS THE ONLY WAY YOU SEE GOD

 

Is this a positive outlook? Seems narrow and stingey to me.

 

I HEARD A VOICE

 

Also a sign of insanity.

 

BEFORE I WAS JUST WASNT NOT TALKING TO GOD OR GIVING TITHES. I DO NOW.

 

They say there's a sucker born every minute.

 

I SURE DIDNT WANT TO GO AND BURN FOR LIFE I BURNT MY HAND ON THE STOVE I COULDNT HANDLE THAT.

 

I just put my burns under cold, running water. I don't believe in Hell.

 

I KNOW BAD THINGS HAPPEN THEY ALWAYS DO ... AND PLEASE DONT LISTEN TO ANY ONE THATS NEGATIVE

 

 

DONT BE AFRAID OF DEATH THERE ARE WORSER THING SUFFERING LIKE SOME PEOPLE ON EARTH AND THEY WISH FOR DEATH.

 

Being positive again?

 

NOW THAT ALL OF THIS HAPPEN TO ME I HAVE LOTS OF DREAMS SEEING NUMBERS LIKE 911 OR 11:11

Whoop dee doo. I dreamed James Marsters singled me out from a crowd.

[Loren]

Hi, folks. Once again, I must apologize for being remiss in policing this forum. I started keeping an eye on byrdlady22 but got involved in dog-sitting for friends. Now I'm back and have deleted her posts in this forum.

 

Byrdlady, this is a forum for exChristians. You or any other Christians are most welcome to read all the posts in this forum or in the Testimonies forum. In fact, I think that spending some time really reading posts in ExChristian Life or Testimonies would do most thinking, feeling Christians a world of good.

 

But posting by Christians (or any other brand of religious zealot) is against the rules in Testimonies and very frowned on in ExChristian Life. What in the world would a Christian know about life after Christianity? This forum is meant for people to be able to have a place where they could take personal problems or even triumphs specifically relating to or stemming from the problems created by Christianity and discuss them.

 

Christians have free run of most of the rest of the site and Dave (the webmaster) and us moderators have a very strong free speech ethic. We would much rather not delete a post than to delete it.

 

Except in ExChristian Life and Testimonies, where Christian input is unwelcome.

 

Again, Christians, please feel free to post all you want in the other fora on the site.

 

Just not here.

 

Thank you.

[Vortex]

I wrestle with this same problem.

 

Studying other religions helps, as does the evolution of the doctrine of hell. Don't quote me on this but I believe that hell was borrowed from other religions and grafted on to Christianity. OT beliefs were centered around sheol, the grave. Give the Skeptics Anotated Bible a surf - by. That might help.

 

Personally, I think that religion is someone elses experience of the divine, mysticism is your own experience of the divine.

 

In all ages the priest has maintained control of believers through fear. Inculcated in us when we are young, it remains with us and is as hard to get rid of as kudzu.

 

I tell myself that we have no plaster casts of a cloven hoofprint. No one has come to us with a burning coal, soot or ash from hell.

 

I do hope that you, (and I), find peace and an antidote to the Catholic poison we were administered.

[Rosa Mystica]

 

I do hope that you, (and I), find peace and an antidote to the Catholic poison we were administered.

 

Me, too. You know the expression: "Once a Catholic, always a Catholic"? I hate that expression. I can't help but wonder if at the fear level, I will *always* be a Catholic. I hope not: I recognize their bullshit for what it is, on an intellectual level. But emotionally, I still struggle at times. Doing a bit better, though. My views are notably more solid than they were ninety days ago, when I first realized that I had deconverted.

 

Thank you for the kind words. I hope you find peace, too.

 

Rosa

 

 

 

But posting by Christians (or any other brand of religious zealot) is against the rules in Testimonies and very frowned on in ExChristian Life. What in the world would a Christian know about life after Christianity? This forum is meant for people to be able to have a place where they could take personal problems or even triumphs specifically relating to or stemming from the problems created by Christianity and discuss them.

 

Christians have free run of most of the rest of the site and Dave (the webmaster) and us moderators have a very strong free speech ethic. We would much rather not delete a post than to delete it.

 

Except in ExChristian Life and Testimonies, where Christian input is unwelcome.

 

Again, Christians, please feel free to post all you want in the other fora on the site.

 

Just not here.

 

Thank you.

 

They're not allowed to *post*, period???? I just thought they weren't allowed to witness.

 

I actually appreciate the input of some of the *saner* Christians here (like Open_Minded, for example). Fundamentalists are a different story, of course. Still, if keep their mouths shut about my eternal destiny and other points of contention, their posts are of little concern to me.

 

As for byrdlady, her input was certainly *not* appreciated, and I thank you for giving her the heads up.

 

Man, this is the second time I've had some fundie attack me in a thread I started. I wonder what's making me vulnerable to stuff like this?

[HadouKen24]

It's only been ninety days or so?

 

Heck, you're doing well!

 

It takes time for intellectual changes to filter down to the gut level. Just keep reminding yourself of what you've come to realize.

[Rosa Mystica]

It's only been ninety days or so?

 

Heck, you're doing well!

 

 

Really?! What makes you think *that*? Personally, I think I'm making abysmal progress in my new worldview.

[Knightley]

Rosa,

 

Doubt and struggle are part of deconversion. I think you're actually brave and courageous to question and think and really understand what is true. Some people never break away from religion because they are so much afraid of what the truth might actually be. They cling to religion like a shield, as a xian, I was very much like this. Afraid to read atheism literature because it would destroy my beliefs, and I was right, but the truth is so much better. Even when we've chosen what we want to believe and our paths in life, we will still struggle.

 

But I want to tell you that its getting better for me and it'll get better for you too. I hate it when people say that there's only one worldview to live by. That's not right, everyone's different. You just need to give yourself time. Learn what you can about different cultures and religions, and how they came to be. There are resources at the library, online by searching google or at wikipedia.org, and even at bookstores.

 

Think of this, its like having a clean slate on beliefs. No one is telling you what the "truth" is when it comes to spiritual truth. That's up for you to discover for yourself. =)

[HadouKen24]

What makes you think *that*?

 

You've had the strength of will to stick to what you know to be true, and haven't denied it for the sake of personal comfort.

 

I suspect that many more people than we hear of realize that what they've believed up until now is false, but don't have the courage to face the gut-twisting ramifications. And it does take courage. It feels awful to turn away from a worldview you've invested your life into. I've been there. That you're able to do it anyway speaks well of your character.

[SweetSouthernHeretic]

My own experience is one of reaching a point where finally just said to myself, "if this (i.e., the manipulation, the coercion, the twisting of *everything* so that it served the interests of the church and its leaders, rather than the individual's) is what getting to heaven is all about, I'd rather go to hell!" From there, it was a fairly short step to "life is short--make it count." For me, now, the definition of hell would be having to spend an eternity with *those* people, or any like them.

 

I hope you can find a way to face your fears head on. I'd been half-heartedly hanging about the church for years, but was afraid of going to hell. When I look back, it seems like I was living under a shadow. If more people acted like the here and now really and truly mattered, instead of needing to believe somewhere else will either be 100% better or 100% worse (how very black & white!) the world would be a better (not perfect, but better) place.

[white_raven23]

As for byrdlady, her input was certainly *not* appreciated, and I thank you for giving her the heads up.

 

Man, this is the second time I've had some fundie attack me in a thread I started. I wonder what's making me vulnerable to stuff like this?

 

Easy. You didn't de-convert that long ago, so 'da fundies' would still class you as having a 'crisis of faith', instead of 'fallen away'.

 

In a way, they do have a sick sort of point. As a new de-convert, they figure you haven't had a chance to sort out and solidify what your beliefs are (and that's true). You are like a freshly molted crab. You have shed the hard shell that no longer fits, but now you are soft and vulnerable to predatory attack because your new 'shell' hasn't hardened yet.

 

So it's no surprise the dogmatics are inclined to swarm you. Only thing is, they don't realize just how predatory and bloodthirsty their zeal to influence you comes across. They don't see that they are actually having the opposite effect that they intend. As good as they think their intentions are to wrap you in the 'love' of jesus, to people like us who prefer making up our own minds, they come across pretty clearly as wolves descending upon a fresh kill.

[godlessgrrl]

Old habits die hard.

 

Mindfucks take a long time to get over.

 

Fear is part of the process, for a lot of people. It'll just take some time to work through.

 

Hold onto the disgust you feel for Biblegod. That may help.

 

And don't believe for a minute any Xian who tries to convince you that you're just feeling "convicted" or that your fear is from going the wrong direction. They're trying to sell you something you don't need (and certainly don't want, from the sound of your posts).

 

Hang in there. It gets better with time. Be patient with yourself.

[Rosa Mystica]

Thanks, white raven and gwenmead.

 

Yeah, it's probably true that I'm more vulnerable b/c I'm new to this. That sucks ass. I wish the dogmatists would leave me the fuck alone. Their stupid crap has done more damage than I can even begin to describe. Of course, I should probably learn to suck up the treatment of the fundies here. It'll give me practice for when my abusive father hurls threats of violence at me in response to the faith loss.