Lust And Pride

[jackbauer]

I don't know whether to put this in the rants section or here, but I think I'll put it here just because I think it makes absolutely NO FUCKING SENSE why one should be made guilty for experiencing things we were programmed to feel. Honestly, out of all the things that make me RAGING MAD about religion, this would be at the top.

 

When a man sees a good looking female, he's going to get excited if you know what I mean. He's going to experience sexual feelings and he may even want to act on them. And I'm sure the same could be said for females.

 

Now Christians will say that we all acted on our desires, we would be out raping and killing. THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE. I'm talking about 'thought' sins which harm absolutely NO ONE. NO ONE IS HARMED BY FANTASIES UNLESS THEY ACTUALLY ACT ON SOME OF THEM.

 

Next, we have the sin of pride, another one which seems to be at the top of some Christians list (at least the ones I experienced). Now, obviously prideful, arrogant people who brag about all their accomplishments can get annoying, but according to some of the religious, if you even give yourself credit or feel good about something you did without agknowledging god, that falls under 'pride'. The only way not to feel pride is to consider yourself so lowly that you're dirt compared to the almighty. Of course, these are both extreme examples, but that's the point. NOT EVERYONE IS THE SAME, THERE'S ALWAYS SOMEONE BETTER OR WORSE THAN ANOTHER.

 

It's like a speedomiter, if you press the gas pedal just a little bit, you're not going to be going 100MPH. You can go 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, or anywhere over or in between. I could never fathom a world with no moderation because that world DOES NOT EXIST!!! Yet according to most Christians, one who looks at a woman lustfully is no better than a serial rapist. What crap!

 

And oh yeah, just to clarify, I know the answer that will surely come my way, Jesus already paid for our sins, yadda yadda yadda. Well, that could start an entirely different thread, but that's out of this question. Even with Jesus, the belief is still the same, all sins, even the small ones, merit the same fate, eternal damnation. So we shouldn't even try to do good.

 

What a crock of shit.

[Ouroboros]

Yup.

 

I rarely think much anymore about all the bull in Christianity, but yesterday I did think about "sin" again, and how silly it is when Christians come to non-believers and tell them they live in sin and have to repent. Sin is a concept which only apply if there is a God. So for a person who does not believe in a God, sin is a non-existent problem. It's a word, defining a concept that doesn't apply to the non-believer (at least not in the eyes of the non-believer). Which makes it so blatantly stupid to think that people really respond to it. Some people do, but that's probably because they do believe in a God and in sin already. But if someone told me I'm living in Zyxcht, it would make just as much sense, since it's just a word they have a concept of.

 

But anyway, you're right, about what you said. I find it more accurate to reality to look at things like a scale. You can be too timid, and you can be too violent. There is a good middleway, where you can be soft in the right time, right place, and for the right situations, and take to force when it's needed for the right reasons. To just condemn something straight out, is absolutism, and so far I haven't seen anything good come out of absolute thinking.

 

I wonder, do Christians really marry out of duty only, or do they do it out of love and lust? I'm certain 99.9% do it for the latter reason, not the first. Which means, they live in sin before they get married. They raped their own wife before she was married. Maybe the duty is to marry the one they rape with their minds?

[Abiyoyo]

Yet according to most Christians, one who looks at a woman lustfully is no better than a serial rapist. What crap!

 

And oh yeah, just to clarify, I know the answer that will surely come my way, Jesus already paid for our sins, yadda yadda yadda. Well, that could start an entirely different thread, but that's out of this question. Even with Jesus, the belief is still the same, all sins, even the small ones, merit the same fate, eternal damnation. So we shouldn't even try to do good.

 

What a crock of shit.

 

How do other Christians know what your thoughts are to judge you, and even if they did know your thoughts; Are they your judge?

 

Do you agree that if you think about something long enough and detailed enough, it becomes that much more realistic?

[jackbauer]

Yet according to most Christians, one who looks at a woman lustfully is no better than a serial rapist. What crap!

 

And oh yeah, just to clarify, I know the answer that will surely come my way, Jesus already paid for our sins, yadda yadda yadda. Well, that could start an entirely different thread, but that's out of this question. Even with Jesus, the belief is still the same, all sins, even the small ones, merit the same fate, eternal damnation. So we shouldn't even try to do good.

 

What a crock of shit.

 

How do other Christians know what your thoughts are to judge you, and even if they did know your thoughts; Are they your judge?

 

Do you agree that if you think about something long enough and detailed enough, it becomes that much more realistic?

 

They don't and they aren't my judge. We'll let the justice system handle real criminals that are actually a threat to others.

 

And no, it may become real to the person imagining it, but that doesn't mean that man who's imagining doing it with that actress he saw on TV is actually doing it and it sure as hell isn't affecting the actress. For instance, people can get so attached to movie characters to the point of breaking down at their staged death, but that doesn't mean that they are witnessing an ACTUAL death.

[jackbauer]

Yup.

 

I wonder, do Christians really marry out of duty only, or do they do it out of love and lust? I'm certain 99.9% do it for the latter reason, not the first. Which means, they live in sin before they get married. They raped their own wife before she was married. Maybe the duty is to marry the one they rape with their minds?

 

But they're forgiven!

[Ouroboros]

Yup.

 

I wonder, do Christians really marry out of duty only, or do they do it out of love and lust? I'm certain 99.9% do it for the latter reason, not the first. Which means, they live in sin before they get married. They raped their own wife before she was married. Maybe the duty is to marry the one they rape with their minds?

 

But they're forgiven!

Yeah. Forgiven because they got married... I thought it was by confessing their sins to Jesus, etc... i guess there are other ways of get cleansed from sins. I never heard any Christian say, "I'm sorry Jesus for getting married." So maybe they're never forgiven, since they never regret it? They're going to Hell, like the rest of us.

[florduh]

To make sure everyone is a possible convert, the religion was constructed so that even the best people aren't good enough for the god the writers invented. Simply being human makes one evil enough to need this cult of self-hatred and shame in humanity.

[R. S. Martin]

Just to clarify for all present, if you're in Canada and part of the social system, you're part of sin. You will have a Social Insurance Number known as S.I.N.

 

I think the American equivalent is Social Security Number, perhaps. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[nightflight]

To make sure everyone is a possible convert, the religion was constructed so that even the best people aren't good enough for the god the writers invented. Simply being human makes one evil enough to need this cult of self-hatred and shame in humanity.

 

 

Whoop, there it is!

[Jeff H]

Just to clarify for all present, if you're in Canada and part of the social system, you're part of sin. You will have a Social Insurance Number known as S.I.N.

 

I think the American equivalent is Social Security Number, perhaps. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah, I always felt shameful that my SIN number had 9 digits

[Guest jmamos]

Now Christians will say that we all acted on our desires, we would be out raping and killing. THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE. I'm talking about 'thought' sins which harm absolutely NO ONE. NO ONE IS HARMED BY FANTASIES UNLESS THEY ACTUALLY ACT ON SOME OF THEM.

 

I just thought of a new Christian pick-up line. "Hey, babe. I saw you lusting at me. As long as we're both already guilty..."

 

And then on the flip side, suppose I think long and hard about selling my car and giving the money to the poor. But when the time comes to actually act, I don't do it. Do I get credit for charity? Surely if lust = adultery of the heart, this charity of the heart should count for a lot.

[Antlerman]

Since I always love playing the Devil's advocate here, there is something to be said for what our thoughts are, what we dwell on, what we believe in. As Ghandi put it, "Positive thoughts lead to positive words, positive words to positive habits, and eventually positive habits to positive destiny." In principle, the things we dwell on or believe will shape our actions, whether negatively or positively. In simple terms, you are what you eat. Or another way to put it, garbage in garbage out.

 

However.... the huge however... what the religious do is they weaponize this principle into an issue of control through guilt. To guilt someone for have sexual desire is like condemning them for desiring food. How they choose to interpret and emphasize these sins, more often than not is a projection of their own mess onto others than anything that has any real human value. This is what religion does to what may have once had some value, but has long since been twisted into some preacher's anxieties about his own identity.

[jackbauer]

Now Christians will say that we all acted on our desires, we would be out raping and killing. THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE. I'm talking about 'thought' sins which harm absolutely NO ONE. NO ONE IS HARMED BY FANTASIES UNLESS THEY ACTUALLY ACT ON SOME OF THEM.

 

I just thought of a new Christian pick-up line. "Hey, babe. I saw you lusting at me. As long as we're both already guilty..."

 

And then on the flip side, suppose I think long and hard about selling my car and giving the money to the poor. But when the time comes to actually act, I don't do it. Do I get credit for charity? Surely if lust = adultery of the heart, this charity of the heart should count for a lot.

 

Wow, why couldn't I have thought of that?

 

Though knowing Christians, they'd say 'well we can never match up to god' or some other bullshit.

[jackbauer]

Since I always love playing the Devil's advocate here, there is something to be said for what our thoughts are, what we dwell on, what we believe in. As Ghandi put it, "Positive thoughts lead to positive words, positive words to positive habits, and eventually positive habits to positive destiny." In principle, the things we dwell on or believe will shape our actions, whether negatively or positively. In simple terms, you are what you eat. Or another way to put it, garbage in garbage out.

 

However.... the huge however... what the religious do is they weaponize this principle into an issue of control through guilt. To guilt someone for have sexual desire is like condemning them for desiring food. How they choose to interpret and emphasize these sins, more often than not is a projection of their own mess onto others than anything that has any real human value. This is what religion does to what may have once had some value, but has long since been twisted into some preacher's anxieties about his own identity.

 

Devils Advocate is always fun.

 

But you're right. As florduh put it, as long as they can set an impossible standard that NO ONE can abide by, they have an excuse to win everyone over.

 

I'll admit that thoughts can shape people, but the real sin isn't what people think, it's what they actually do.

[Neon Genesis]

To just condemn something straight out, is absolutism, and so far I haven't seen anything good come out of absolute thinking.

That reminds me of how Obi Wan Kenobi said that only an agent of evil deals in absolutes.

 

Do you agree that if you think about something long enough and detailed enough, it becomes that much more realistic?

Since Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert for 40 days, if thinking a sin is the same thing as committing the sin, does that mean Jesus sinned and thus isn't the perfect son of god, after all?

 

Yeah. Forgiven because they got married... I thought it was by confessing their sins to Jesus, etc... i guess there are other ways of get cleansed from sins. I never heard any Christian say, "I'm sorry Jesus for getting married." So maybe they're never forgiven, since they never regret it? They're going to Hell, like the rest of us

Well, Paul does say in 1 Corinthians 7:13-14 that if you're a non-Christian, you and your children will be saved if you marry a Christian, so your argument is biblical at least.

[white_raven23]

Do you agree that if you think about something long enough and detailed enough, it becomes that much more realistic?

 

 

Christianity discourages experience. That is part of the problem. Maybe christians would run around dry-humping every leg if they were told they suddenly 'could', but those people who have not been afraid of mild experimenting, understand a little something about REALITY that those who deny themselves to the point of bursting DO NOT.....

 

And that is, that Fantasy rarely if EVER lives up to REALITY. I have found the men who talk endlessly about having a "threesome" the most, are the ones who have NEVER had one, and the men I know who have had this experience, have NEVER traded threesomes out as "better" than just being with one other person. There is a REASON for that. Every guy I've talked to freely admit the actual experience turned out to be nothing like how they'd imagined it. The reality of relatively minor fantasized activities are actually a deterrant for escalation into the slavering rapacious sex beast you imagine people let 'loose' would be.

 

And BTW.....rape is not about sex. It's about power. Sexual desire does NOT lead to rape. Desire to Dominate the unwilling does. If you cannot tell the difference between those two attitudes, then your overall view of sexuality is stunted and immature, and is pretty much in line with an archaic ignorant society of patriarchal sheep fuckers whose written mythology is currently mistaken for deep spiritual wisdom.

[SWIM]

Sin is a concept which only apply if there is a God. So for a person who does not believe in a God, sin is a non-existent problem. It's a word, defining a concept that doesn't apply to the non-believer (at least not in the eyes of the non-believer).

 

In reality, in our world, the cosmos and all, imo, good and evil do not exist, nor does sin. There merely IS what is. Take a wrong course of action, it ends in a negative experience for you or others. We define it as wrong because it is anti-social, and leads to harm, but in reality, there is really no right or wrong, merely what we do and the results thereof.

 

For example, explosions are negative when it is a bomb being dropped, we know this because it results in death and destruction. However, explosions in the cylinder of your car's engine are "good" cause they make the car go.

 

The idea behind the concept of "lusting" with one's eyes being bad, I am sure the fiction writers that made the bible intended it to prevent actually carrying out those ideas. Some people, not all, if they fantasize too much on something anti-social, like rape etc, may eventually carry it out. So in an effort to control society, the religion manufacturers put this in to attempt to curtail that problem.

 

But we don't need fairy tales and false religions to tell us what is correct or incorrect. Simple common sense should be enough for a rational person of good mental health. Stands to reason that you are in control of your own mind, you let it run wild you *might* eventually act on it, it IS a human concept, put into the bible by humans, who are it's real authors, no deity. But these authors, of course we all know, are not infallable, in fact, in an attempt to help, (and others attempts to use people) the juggernaut that is today's religion is one of the most negative forces in the world today. Why? Because it is based primarily on lies. There is no god, or afterlife, but it strives to make you believe in both, SO you obey all the other stuff, intended at the time of writing to improve society. But, anything based on lies or deception, no matter how noble the motivation in creating it was, leads to more trouble and chaos then it attempts to stop.

 

[Ouroboros]

Sin is a concept which only apply if there is a God. So for a person who does not believe in a God, sin is a non-existent problem. It's a word, defining a concept that doesn't apply to the non-believer (at least not in the eyes of the non-believer).

 

In reality, in our world, the cosmos and all, imo, good and evil do not exist, nor does sin. There merely IS what is. Take a wrong course of action, it ends in a negative experience for you or others. We define it as wrong because it is anti-social, and leads to harm, but in reality, there is really no right or wrong, merely what we do and the results thereof.

...

Exactly. Right and wrong exists only in the sense of what we have defined as such.

[Hineni]

SWIM, great post!

 

And very true, Han.

[Everglaze]

The only way not to feel pride is to consider yourself so lowly that you're dirt compared to the almighty.

 

 

Hahaha. Back when I used to do that, I was still accused of being prideful by other Christians. Ain't that some fucked up shit? It never made sense to me how they interpreted pride.

 

The only "sin" I hate is adultery. That's for obvious reasons. Who wants a spouse that's been around the block with the entire neighbourhood behind your back?

[Ouroboros]

...

The only "sin" I hate is adultery. That's for obvious reasons. Who wants a spouse that's been around the block with the entire neighbourhood behind your back?

On a completely different note. You're having a misplaced modifier in your sentence. It sounds kind of funny. I make the same mistakes, so no fret. But read it again, and you'll see the sentence can be interpreted a bit different than your intention. Hint: I get the image of your spouse running around the block, while you are watching, and all the neighbors are standing behind you and watch as well.

[orlando]

And then on the flip side, suppose I think long and hard about selling my car and giving the money to the poor. But when the time comes to actually act, I don't do it. Do I get credit for charity? Surely if lust = adultery of the heart, this charity of the heart should count for a lot.

 

I like that - makes sense by their own logic!

[orlando]

...

The only "sin" I hate is adultery. That's for obvious reasons. Who wants a spouse that's been around the block with the entire neighbourhood behind your back?

On a completely different note. You're having a misplaced modifier in your sentence. It sounds kind of funny. I make the same mistakes, so no fret. But read it again, and you'll see the sentence can be interpreted a bit different than your intention. Hint: I get the image of your spouse running around the block, while you are watching, and all the neighbors are standing behind you and watch as well.

 

yeah, I see that would need to be something like: Who wants a spouse that, behind your back, has been around the block with the entire neighbourhood

 

or maybe a comma before "behind"

 

I don;t know if it is even a "mistake" but yeah, things like that can be unintentionally funny

[Ouroboros]

or maybe a comma before "behind"

Not that I'm an expert on these things, but the new sentence (I think) is correct, while a comma would only make the misplaced modifier into a dangling modifier (I think... again).

 

I don;t know if it is even a "mistake" but yeah, things like that can be unintentionally funny

Ah. Maybe you had some subconscious image of your spouse training for the marathon, and the whole neighborhood wanted to cheer him/her on? Maybe he/she is a bit on the larger size, and you have a non-explicit wish for him/her to start exercising?

[Neon Genesis]

Hahaha. Back when I used to do that, I was still accused of being prideful by other Christians. Ain't that some fucked up shit? It never made sense to me how they interpreted pride.

Don't you love the hypocrisy of Christians? I've lost track of how many times in this current election the xtians have said we must always be proud of our nation, even when it sucks because America is somehow still the greatest nation on the planet, and then they bash the Democrats for being ashamed of America. What happened to that whole pride goes before a fall thing?