Lust And Pride

[Legion]

Trust me, I can easily identify people who could easily intimidate me if I chose to go down the comparison path, people here on this site for instance.

I could fuck Antlerman up! He has soft hands and a soft mind!

[florduh]

Trust me, I can easily identify people who could easily intimidate me if I chose to go down the comparison path, people here on this site for instance.

I could fuck Antlerman up! He has soft hands and a soft mind!

 

I'm sure he didn't mean YOU. :tongue:

[Legion]

Trust me, I can easily identify people who could easily intimidate me if I chose to go down the comparison path, people here on this site for instance.

I could fuck Antlerman up! He has soft hands and a soft mind!

I'm sure he didn't mean YOU. :tongue:

Perhaps not, but I'd like to think he did.

[Antlerman]

Trust me, I can easily identify people who could easily intimidate me if I chose to go down the comparison path, people here on this site for instance.

I could fuck Antlerman up! He has soft hands and a soft mind!

 

I'm sure he didn't mean YOU. :tongue:

 

 

 

 

 

 

No.

 

 

 

 

 

 

:assshake:

 

(plumber's butt)

[jackbauer]

I would have to say that I agree with most everyone that moderation is the key when it comes to most things in life. Sex, alcohol, video games, etc. However, when it comes to lust, I would rather just avoid it all together than suffer any future consequences because of it. I'm sure most of you have heard the Christian teaching at youth group or church where it is said that, "Christians ask, 'how close to the line can I go before sinning?' rather than, 'how far away can I stay from the line?'" Now I believe that good can come from this idea, as well as bad. The bad part is that Christians can become so obsessed about staying as far from the line as possible, that it affects them in a negative way. However, good can come from this type of philosophy. I doubt anyone can truly argue with me if I make the decision to never lust or desire another woman besides my wife. The idea of my wife getting my complete, and undivided, sexual attention is beautiful to me.

 

Do you believe that the marriages that end in divorce because of a cheating spouse were the result of the spouse just one day deciding to cheat? I believe it started with lust. The same lust that the spouse thought was ok because it wouldn't harm anyone. Its a domino effect that the person doesn't realize is happening until their mind is consumed with thoughts of lust. Yes, I believe there are marriages where the husband(I'm picking on men, sorry) lusts for other women, and yet has it under control. He might never act on his desires and still have a happy marriage. But I have to believe, and maybe I'm off target here, that it still affects his relationship with his wife in some fashion. Is masturbation wrong if the wife doesn't know about it? Is pornography ok to look at if the wife doesn't know about it? Are these things still ok if the wife does know about it? I'm sorry to sound repetitive, but I honestly believe that if a man lusts after other women, real or not, it either affects his marriage or the way he views his wife.

 

QUOTE (dario @ Oct 22 2008, 04:59 PM)

As far as Antlerman's post, you have a lot of information there that is difficult for me to respond to. You are obviously a very intelligent person, far more than I am. I guess what I should have communicated earlier is that I am a person that is driven by sexuality. This topic is one that I hold very close because it is one that effects me personally.

 

"That's fine. You probably have an addictive personality, in which case if you find yourself going overboard with certain things and it leads you in behaviors that affect you and others negatively, then you should avoid them. But then you shouldn't judge others who don't abuse indulgences, by calling what leads you to sin, sin when others do it."

 

I would like to get one thing clear as far as the comments above. I don't believe I have an addictive personality and maybe I should have chosen my words more carefully when I was explaining myself. I avoid lust because I think it is wrong. I think it is wrong to look at pornography and so I avoid these things at all costs. Will I ever judge someone personally who decides to choose these things for themselves? I would hope not, especially verbally or orally. Will I judge them in my thoughts? As sad as it is, I probably would. But it is not my place to tell someone that they are in the wrong. I might, however, try to persuade someone if I think something is destructive. Just like some people I've seen on this forum do. They believe Christianity is destructive and therefore try to persuade the person that it is. I believe that having a healthy argument can be constructive, as long as it stays healthy.

 

I would like to state that I doubt I am going to win any sort of intellectual conversation with anyone in here. I don't know what any of you do as far as occupation, but for some of the posts I've read, some of you sound brilliant. I am a young, married man still trying to get through school. For discussions, I rely soley on my experiences, passion, and the limited knowledge that I have. Forgive me now for any ignorance I might have shown or will show in the future.

 

 

Dario

 

I think the big issue here is the difference between 'lust' and 'sex'. You have agknowledged that there are times when obsessing too much about avoiding lust is unhealthy and you also admit that it's not so much the act itself, but what it could lead to. In other words, you understand that going 2 miles over isn't so bad, but if you're not careful, you could end up going 10. But really, when does it really become lust? That's the real question here. Perhaps you believe that when you actually desire another woman to the point of obsession, that it becomes lust. I would definately agree here. Obsession can not only become unhealthy, but it could also make you want beat yourself up over not getting something or making some mistake. I personally believe that one of the most self destructive beheviors is beating yourself up over something you've done in the past and thinking how 'different' things would be otherwise, and I speak from experience here. That is actually one of the reasons I object to Christianity, because it uses the same fear (are you really saved?!) which is based on things that can't be tested to confuse people.

 

Now, I can totally respect your idea that lust can poison marrages even though I have no experience in that area and believe that it's not always the case. But you only tackled the issue with married men or women. What about teens? I remember once going on a conservative catholic forum where some boy said he was having sexual thoughts (like all hormonal teens do) and seemed so insecure about it. Well, these Catholics sure showed him their 'love' by making him more self consious and scared! He should pray the rossery, go to confession, and that the devil was telling him it's okay (sorry if I sound angry, I'm not at you, just these people on that forum). I'm not going to say much about married couples, but it seems that you believe that they should have more control with lust and sexual desire (unless it's with each other), but teens are NOT married and are programmed to be more sexual. When you're a teen, or young adult, trying to repress sexual thoughts can be a real chore, and can also take away the pleasurable aspects of sex. And yes, I believe that it's perfectly normal for teens to have fantasies as long as it doesn't become a reality if you know what I mean. I would be curious to know what your view would be on that.

 

I know it's impossible to specifically define these things, but that's why I think so many people are caught up in black and white thinking. The bible doesn't spefically define some stuff which makes fundamentalists only see black and white, when there are hundreds of other colors. No one should be expected to write down every little situation when something is either good or bad because that would be really picky and absurd, but so is thinking things are black and white, and I think you understand that.

[Ouroboros]

Oh, Dario, I wanted to ask you one thing, why did you get married? Was it because you desired to live with her, was it some lust in there, or was it all a puritan kind of pre-arranged marriage, done through a contract between your parents, her parents, and God?

[Vomit Comet]

Yeah, even if you're getting laid regularly by your live-in partner/spouse, a guy's still gotta rub one out for himself every now and then.

 

Hey, it beats the hell out of having to rub one out every goddamn night just to fall asleep.

[Antlerman]

I'm not going to say much about married couples, but it seems that you believe that they should have more control with lust and sexual desire (unless it's with each other), but teens are NOT married and are programmed to be more sexual. When you're a teen, or young adult, trying to repress sexual thoughts can be a real chore, and can also take away the pleasurable aspects of sex. And yes, I believe that it's perfectly normal for teens to have fantasies as long as it doesn't become a reality if you know what I mean. I would be curious to know what your view would be on that.

Goodness, that brings back some of those thoughts I had as a teen! It's almost embarrassing today to recall them, yet quite confirming to what you say. Suffice to say those teen thoughts had to do with all the females at school that attracted me, all at once....!!

 

I know it's impossible to specifically define these things, but that's why I think so many people are caught up in black and white thinking. The bible doesn't specifically define some stuff which makes fundamentalists only see black and white, when there are hundreds of other colors. No one should be expected to write down every little situation when something is either good or bad because that would be really picky and absurd, but so is thinking things are black and white, and I think you understand that.

That's a good thought. The disconnected, vague general nature of these texts lends itself to interpretations that play off cultural anxieties; anxieties driven by the religiously repressed in leadership positions with the social institution of church. To take those anxieties and reduce them into the form of simple sound bites is quite appealing to the masses; and plays into the hands of the marketers who would sell for reasons other than what those who buy their catered wares.

 

I personally tend to think, less cynically than others perhaps, that the general nature of the Bible is due to the original audience being familiar with the connotations of how the teachings were framed. Whereas our culture is more a vacuum where these are dropped into, and lend themselves to a broader "interpretation", since we are so removed from the target audience’s frame of reference. However, by the same token, it's the earmark of a good mythology to lend itself to a culture's interpretation, being by nature "vague". In which case "the Bible", is more a measure of our society’s anxieties, its struggles against itself in the face of modern advances. We latch on to this myth, as a vehicle of expressing our own confusion about ourselves. God is made to be our scratching post, so to speak.

 

Anyway, I'm somewhat rambling. It's Friday and I'm enjoying a good drink while listening to some fine music. As we were....

[florduh]

Yeah, even if you're getting laid regularly by your live-in partner/spouse, a guy's still gotta rub one out for himself every now and then.

 

Hey, it beats the hell out of having to rub one out every goddamn night just to fall asleep.

 

 

You romantic cuss!

[Taphophilia]

This goes well here.

 

It is with our passions, as it is with fire and water, they make good servants, but bad masters. -- Aesop

[Kuroikaze]

I would have to say that I agree with most everyone that moderation is the key when it comes to most things in life. Sex, alcohol, video games, etc. However, when it comes to lust, I would rather just avoid it all together than suffer any future consequences because of it. I'm sure most of you have heard the Christian teaching at youth group or church where it is said that, "Christians ask, 'how close to the line can I go before sinning?' rather than, 'how far away can I stay from the line?'" Now I believe that good can come from this idea, as well as bad. The bad part is that Christians can become so obsessed about staying as far from the line as possible, that it affects them in a negative way. However, good can come from this type of philosophy. I doubt anyone can truly argue with me if I make the decision to never lust or desire another woman besides my wife. The idea of my wife getting my complete, and undivided, sexual attention is beautiful to me.

 

Here is what I would argue. That you are setting your self up to fail, the way evolution has wired our brains to deal with sexuality you simply are NOT going to be able to stop yourself from ever thinking lustful thoughts or direct them only towards you wife. By trying to do so, you will fail, then you will feel guilty and the cycle will spiral downward. You will feel as if you have broken trust with your wife by thinking these things and your relationship will suffer because of this feeling.

 

At least this is my thoughts on this. If instead we just admit that we are sexual creatures, and be honest with ones spouse about that, no one has too feel guilty for being human, and you can get on with your relationship in peace.

 

Do you believe that the marriages that end in divorce because of a cheating spouse were the result of the spouse just one day deciding to cheat? I believe it started with lust. The same lust that the spouse thought was ok because it wouldn't harm anyone. Its a domino effect that the person doesn't realize is happening until their mind is consumed with thoughts of lust.

 

I believe that neither one of us has enough information to make sweeping judgments about what causes people to cheat, however, it seems in most cases it has little to do with lust, and more to do having an unhappy relationship and being to stubborn or chicken to end it properly before starting a new one. I don't think most people have affairs because of lust, but because they find their current relationship unfulfilling for some reason

 

Yes, I believe there are marriages where the husband(I'm picking on men, sorry) lusts for other women, and yet has it under control. He might never act on his desires and still have a happy marriage. But I have to believe, and maybe I'm off target here, that it still affects his relationship with his wife in some fashion. Is masturbation wrong if the wife doesn't know about it? Is pornography ok to look at if the wife doesn't know about it? Are these things still ok if the wife does know about it? I'm sorry to sound repetitive, but I honestly believe that if a man lusts after other women, real or not, it either affects his marriage or the way he views his wife.

 

No, I don't think its "ok" but not because porn or masturbation are wrong, however, lack of honesty in a relationship is usually a sign of problems. If one person feels they must hide parts of themselves from the other for fear of rejection, then that also seems to be a sign of trouble.

 

I would like to get one thing clear as far as the comments above. I don't believe I have an addictive personality and maybe I should have chosen my words more carefully when I was explaining myself. I avoid lust because I think it is wrong. I think it is wrong to look at pornography and so I avoid these things at all costs. Will I ever judge someone personally who decides to choose these things for themselves? I would hope not, especially verbally or orally. Will I judge them in my thoughts? As sad as it is, I probably would. But it is not my place to tell someone that they are in the wrong. I might, however, try to persuade someone if I think something is destructive. Just like some people I've seen on this forum do. They believe Christianity is destructive and therefore try to persuade the person that it is. I believe that having a healthy argument can be constructive, as long as it stays healthy.

 

That's fine, I just think your reason are suspect, you connect certain things to lust that I don't think are really connected to it at all.

[Neon Genesis]

I believe that neither one of us has enough information to make sweeping judgments about what causes people to cheat, however, it seems in most cases it has little to do with lust, and more to do having an unhappy relationship and being to stubborn or chicken to end it properly before starting a new one. I don't think most people have affairs because of lust, but because they find their current relationship unfulfilling for some reason

That reminds me of an interesting article I read awhile back about a possible link between monogamy and genetics: http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id...mmitment-phobia

The study, to appear in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, is the first to try to examine whether a hormone that encourages monogamy in animals plays a similar role in male humans. Before getting ideas about a DNA-fidelity test, though, women should consider that the study wasn’t designed to determine how much — or even whether — the gene in question is responsible for monogamy in humans.

 

“We can’t with any accuracy predict effects on behavior,” says Hasse Walum of the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. “A lot of different things determine how happy you will be in a relationship.”

 

But women can now wonder, “What about his vasopressin 1a receptor subtype?”