nick5 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I found this post to be funny; making God sound like the bad guy Yes. That's the way it is. Scott, your perception is twisted and wrong. I would rather die for what is good, than side with the demon you worship. To answer the poll, no, my family isn't christian so they wouldn't be on the bad side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Taylork, 1.I believe in the passages of Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 he is comparing the men to Satan, and the way he was. And that is the way he was. From the beginning Satan wanted to be God. 2. Alright. 3. Yes, that's what I believe. I'm not saying you or anyone else has to. Although I believe it 100% percent; enough to obey Jesus about witnessing. Nick, God is not a demon. He cast Satan and his little buddies out of heaven. They are the evil ones. By the way Nick, about your signature, who ever said babies would go to Hell?...Or is that just another attempt to make God seem evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, God is not a demon Yes he is. He's just fucking with your mind, that's why you don't realize it. yaweh and jeebus make hitler look like an innocent little kitty. christianity says people go to hell if they don't kiss jesus's ass. babies are too young to accept jesus, so they go to hell. Don't make shit up about the age of accountability. It's not in the bible, so I don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 Taylork, 1.I believe in the passages of Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 he is comparing the men to Satan, and the way he was. And that is the way he was. From the beginning Satan wanted to be God. The theology you are speaking of is derived from John Miltons book "Paradise Lost". The scriptures you reference aren't god comparing men with satan but men being described for there actions using colorful references. Also since those references have to be used sporatically they are not in context. You can't say they are satan using scripture out of context. Scott, good job for realizing that everything your relationship with Jesus is based on faith and belief and not fact. It IS fact to you though and that is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, babies don't go to hell because they are innocents. Jesus did say unless we convert to like a little child, we will not enter heaven. I don't care if you don't "buy" it. Nothing is for sell. Taylork, I do believe he is comparing men to Satan because, as it says in Isaiah "How you have fallen from heaven O Lucifer!" and in Ezekiel "You were perfect in all your ways, until unrighteousness was found in you". No man has fallen from heaven, and no man is perfect in all his ways except Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, babies don't go to hell because they are innocents. Original sin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin According to Christian tradition, Original sin is the general and non-personal condition of sinfulness (lack of holiness) into which human beings are born. We either serve jesus or we serve the beast, right? Babies are too young to know about that, so they can't serve jesus. Therefore they serve the beast by default. The bible says the ONLY way to god is through jesus. Babies go to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 Taylork, I do believe he is comparing men to Satan because, as it says in Isaiah "How you have fallen from heaven O Lucifer!".......No man has fallen from heaven Firstly, the whole passage of Isaiah is about a babylonian king. He is described as falling from heaven because his kingdom fell. He fell from a high place of power, wealth and riches. Now if you were going to write beautiful imagary about his fall what would you describe it as...heaven is the best word. You have to read it in context. If it's about a king then that it is what it is about. Part of that return would involve the downfall of the tyrant king of Babylon (v. 4; probably Nebuchadrezzer; for the same language used of a later Babylonian ruler, Belshazzar, see Dan 5:20). In that context, verses 12-21 are a poetic picture of that downfall. Helel, morning star, and Shahar, dawn, then, are references to the Babylonian gods who could not save the king, and are themselves to be cast down. In fact, there is probably a reference here to the habit of ancient Near Eastern kings proclaiming themselves incarnations of the gods; with the fall of the kings, the gods also fell, often physically as the images that represented them were pulled down and destroyed (recall the symbolism of the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's statue in Baghdad). In Ezekiel "You were perfect in all your ways, until unrighteousness was found in you"....and no man is perfect in all his ways except Jesus. Read verses 2 and 12. It is CLEAR it is about the king of tyre. Tyre thought he was a god so Ezekiel calling him perfect is more like mocking him then anything. Ezekiel 28:1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, This is what the Lord has said: Because your heart has been lifted up, and you have said, I am a god, I am seated on the seat of God in the heart of the seas; but you are man and not God, though you have made your heart as the heart of God (BBE, emphasis added) Unless Satan is a man, your theory is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, you are forgetting that God is just. Jesus loved children. They do not go to Hell. It also says in the Bible "For a man to know to do good, and not to do it, then it is sin." Taylork, in the NT Satan is referred to as the "strong man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 Taylork, in the NT Satan is referred to as the "strong man". Please read in context. In this scripture is says Ezekiel 28:1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, This is what the Lord has said: Because your heart has been lifted up, and you have said, I am a god, I am seated on the seat of God in the heart of the seas; but you are man and not God, though you have made your heart as the heart of God In the entire chapter it is talking about the KING OF TYRE. It's not satan. It's a poetic prophecy about that man. You can't take bits and pieces of scripture to make them fit to you! here read this http://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ed05c.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, you are forgetting that God is just. No, he isn't. He's probably the most unfair, immature and evil character ever created, and throws people into his fireplace for his own pleasure, even though it's his fault if they didn't meet his expectation. Jesus loved children. They do not go to Hell. Are you an idiot? Can you read? I'll repeat it for you. According to Christian tradition, Original sin is the general and non-personal condition of sinfulness (lack of holiness) into which human beings are born. Got that? You make shit up to make your religion seem more humane and civilized (even though it clearly isn't) but you can't give me any kind of reasoning or quote from the bible to back it up. "For a man to know to do good, and not to do it, then it is sin." Just because THAT particular thing is a sin doesn't mean there aren't others. People are born into sin. That's christian doctrine. If they die without accepting jesus, they go to hell. That's christian doctrine. Therefore someone who dies too young to accept Jesus, GOES TO HELL. THAT'S christian doctrine. I know you're not very good at logic, but 1+1=2 in this case. Jesus sends children to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 Scott, you have said that it is okay to kill in the name of your god. Even if it meant killing your family. Do you realize this is the same thought process as the muslims who kill others in the name of there god. You two are one and the same. Your gods just have different names. I have a strong feeling that if you were around during the Salem Witch trials, you'd be the one holding the torch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Taylork, I do believe he is comparing men to Satan because, as it says in Isaiah "How you have fallen from heaven O Lucifer!" and in Ezekiel "You were perfect in all your ways, until unrighteousness was found in you". No man has fallen from heaven, and no man is perfect in all his ways except Jesus. I explained this in another post, but you might have missed it. Lucifer is NOT the name of Satan. It is a Latin word that means "bright morning star" The term was a reference to the king of Babylon and was not attributed to Satan until after the very very bad translation of the KJV bible in which the translators (who translated from the Vulgate instead of the original Greek) left the word untranslated. then later on people who didn't know their Latin misread the passage and thought the writer was naming Satan. If you read the whole of Isaiah 14 in context it is clearly still talking about the king of Babylon in this passage. The interesting thing is that you are claiming that this passage must be talking about Satan because it mentions Satan's name Lucifer...however the name Lucifer ONLY appears in this passage, so theologians concluded this was satan's name on the faulty interpretation of this passage. So your argument appeals to circular logic AND scholars who didn't know their shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Alright Taylork, I'll read that. If you are right though, there are other passages that speak clearly of the evil of Satan. 'When they came to the crowd, a man came to Jesus, falling on his knees before Him and saying, "Have mercy on my son, for he is a lunatic and is very ill, for he often falls into the fire and often into the water. I brought him to Your disciples, and they could not cure him"....And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once' Matthew 17:14-17. Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devous' 1 Peter 5:8. 'And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him' Revelation 12:9. So, these are just a few verses that show what the devil is like. He tried to kill a boy when he was possessing him, but Jesus cast him out, he is always looking for someone to devour, and he is a deceiver of the whole world. Nick, you're a liar. Taylork, I never said it was ok to kill in the name of God. I said, when we come back with Jesus, all the people who took the mark of the beast will be destroyed. Killing people now is wrong, and we are not to do that. However, judgement is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 Alright Taylork, I'll read that. If you are right though, there are other passages that speak clearly of the evil of Satan. Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devous' 1 Peter 5:8. Tell me if you see the difference between the two Satan 1 Peter 5:8 (Whole Chapter) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: God Isaiah 31:4 (Whole Chapter) For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof. Hosea 11:10 (Whole Chapter) They shall walk after the LORD: he shall roar like a lion: when he shall roar, then the children shall tremble from the west. 2 Kings 17:25 (Whole Chapter) And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them. Seems to me like both are roaring lions who cast fear on others and seek to devour them. God just seems to do it more Taylork, I never said it was ok to kill in the name of God. I said, when we come back with Jesus, all the people who took the mark of the beast will be destroyed. Killing people now is wrong, and we are not to do that. However, judgement is coming. You said if Jesus wanted you to kill your family, you would do it. Whether it is today or a time to come, killing people in the name of any god is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 You realize that the devil always tries to immitate God, right? Everything God does, Satan has a counterfiet for. I would never kill in the name of God now, and Jesus would never tell me to. But when that time comes, the whole world will be rallied up against Jesus. All the armies of the world will be there to fight Him. The people who are my family now, will not be my family then. The judgement of God will fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, you're a liar. Your arguments are overwhelming... Well, I guess I'm a liar then. You just proved it, thanks for showing me the light. But so was jesus, and you worship him, so I guess being a liar isn't that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 You realize that the devil always tries to immitate God, right? Everything God does, Satan has a counterfiet for.Right, anything that you feel that makes satan evil, God really does. Not only does he commit evils like satan does God does it more and he is better at it. God is clearly more evil than satan. Besides you still haven't showed me ANY story where the bible actually SHOWS satan killing people or devouring them. But when that time comes, the whole world will be rallied up against Jesus. All the armies of the world will be there to fight Him. The people who are my family now, will not be my family then. The judgement of God will fall. Right you would kill in the name of your God just like the muslims do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, I'm not trying to argue with you. There's not point in it. Jesus was not a liar. Taylork, I can't think off the top of my head of a Bible story where Satan devours someone. However, the Bible says "The whole world lies under the sway of the evil one". He devours people every day by things like abortion and murder and deception. God is not evil. He wants to protect us from the devil. It's not at all like the muslims. I would never kill someone in this life, except in the case of self-defense. The Bible doesn't say if God's saints will have a part in destroying the armies of the world. But they follow Satan, the evil one. They are there to fight against Christ. They have rebelled against God. They will have made their choice. Now, the judgement of God comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, I'm not trying to argue with you. There's not point in it. Jesus was not a liar. Scott, you're a dick, and I'm not trying to argue with you. There's no point in it. Jesus WAS a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Scott can you not see that it may be possible that "God" is the personification of "good"? Do you know what anthropomorphic means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, it seems like you are trying to argue with me. You are a sad, confused little boy. Yes legion, I know what it means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, it seems like you are trying to argue with me. You are a sad, confused little boy. Scott, I'm not trying to argue with you, for 2 reasons: 1. I've already won. I have proved that my side was right using logic and evidence, therefore the debate is over. Whether or not you accept this, is a different story altogether. 2. You're a dick. If you're saying Jesus wasn't a liar, then you gotta explain why I never got the ferrari I prayed for. And that was YEARS ago. Jesus clearly says he will give us anything we pray for if we believe in him (as I used to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I just wanted to ante in on the topic of this thread. I think that my stepdad has it in him to kill me if the circumstances are right. I don't know if those circumstances would neccessarily be the armies of God vs. the armies of the anti-Christ. I know though that I would not worship a man and thus become one in the army of the anti-Christ. Apparently though you are either for Jesus or against him, which is ridiculous in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 Nick, I'm not trying to argue with you. There's not point in it. Jesus was not a liar. Taylork, I can't think off the top of my head of a Bible story where Satan devours someone. However, the Bible says "The whole world lies under the sway of the evil one". He devours people every day by things like abortion and murder and deception. God is not evil. He wants to protect us from the devil. Throughout the whole bible I haven't even heard of a story where satan is killing anyone. Period. But there are numerous stories of god killing, murdering, hating people. You can't even show me that Satan is evil using your own bible. Can't you see everything you feel satan is evil for god has done as well? Any scripture that you feel makes satan evil God does as well. -EDIT- Oh and the the comment about abortion. God likes killing babies too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 You realize that the devil always tries to immitate God, right? Everything God does, Satan has a counterfiet for. your only proof for this is what the bible says...until you prove it is a reliable source for information (which you can't do) this statement is nothing more than an opinion. You haven't proved the god of the bible OR satan actually exist. Nick, it seems like you are trying to argue with me. You are a sad, confused little boy. Yes legion, I know what it means. then try dealing with the fact that humans created god in their image, not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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