FarflungWanderer Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 As I understand Epigenetics, that only is direct and doesn't pass on, because it more or less revolves around physical events that cause changes in proteins/chemicals in and around DNA, which cause the same genes to be read differently. I might have botched the summary, but it doesn't pass on generation to generation. It's a one-time deal, like the Dutch Hunger Children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Thanks, Wanderer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_famine_of_1944 Moreover, the children of the women who were pregnant during the famine were smaller, as expected. However, surprisingly, when these children grew up and had children those children were thought to also be smaller than average. These data suggested that the famine experienced by the mothers caused some kind of epigenetic changes that were passed down to the next generation. Despite this, a subsequent study by the same author failed to find a correlation between maternal exposure to famine and birth weight of the next generation (Emphasis, mine.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarflungWanderer Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 What's weird is that some other studies, like one in Sweden, found that there were epigenetic changes in the grandchildren of those who were subjected to famine. It's very weird how it all works, but I'm interested to see how it plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 God and Epigenetics? Sure. Of course. If your family smeared blood on the doorposts, you and your descendants will be fine until the holocaust. Don't expect G-d to save you from the showers though, Adolf has iron in his Panzers. But be born poor and hungry and live that way all your life, and you piss me off? Fuck you. You're children's grandchildren will also be hungry all their lives too, whether they piss me off or not. I'm that pissed off! Makes perfect sense with the goggles on. Why? God said so, that's why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 The story was that He had Israel wander the desert for near 40 years to remove a generation. It does make sense and science says it makes sense. And it's heritable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 It does make sense and science says it makes sense. Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. Science has found no evidence that any event described in Exodus ever happened. Rather science has uncovered plenty of evidence that suggests the Exodus story was made up. It doesn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 The Exodus did NOT happen… it's not even possible for it to happen. An analogy, maybe - but a real event, yup, right up there with the flood. It's a big, huge LIE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 By the way I went googling and found that Christians have been very busy spreading the lie that scientist now widely accept that the plagues of Egypt really happened. They have been publishing this in Christian books and editing wikipedia articles. It doesn't matter how many times Christians make this claim. It is still an empty claim. The Wiki article cites Christian propaganda books. I look up the Christian propaganda books and they cite more Christian propaganda. Nobody seems to be able to explain how could the first born cattle have died in the last plague when all the livestock had already died from disease in the 5th plague. But somehow it all makes sense? If your fricken God is all knowing why do you have to splash lamb's blood on the door to remind your all knowing God to not kill your first born? If your God of justice is such a respecter of human free will then why did God harden the heart of Pharaoh so that God would have an excuse to kill all these innocent people? The first born of the Egyptian servants were not the ones who wouldn't let the Hebrews go. Why would God punish everyone? Why couldn't they name which Pharaoh all this happened under? You know every real Pharaoh had a name. I know why. It's because the story was made up by barbarian goat hearders who hated Egypt. The nomadic people living in the deserts and mountains were jealous of the superior culture of Egypt. Egypt had wealth, power and knowledge that hill people could only dream of. So the goad hearders made up a story about how their imaginary friend had once destroyed Egypt. Egypt's Old Kingdom had collapsed but there is no evidence that it was caused by the plagues from a Hebrew myth. It's a story made up to explain things long forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Oh gheeze....how did this turn from epigenetics to Exodus. Let's suppose that the Exodus never happened. The POINT would be WHY is this aspect even in the story? Why does God stop a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 End3 wrote... "The story was that He had Israel wander the desert for near 40 years to remove a generation. It does make sense and science says it makes sense. And its heritable." . . . That story is from the same book as this quote, isn't it End? Romans 12 : 17 & 18, NIV. "Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what it right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." . . . So you'll cite Exodus thru Joshua as historical fact and claim that it's supported by science? But when it comes to you being obedient to the God's word, you won't do it? . . . Nice demonstration of Christian hypocrisy at work, End! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 End3 wrote... "The story was that He had Israel wander the desert for near 40 years to remove a generation. It does make sense and science says it makes sense. And its heritable." . . . That story is from the same book as this quote, isn't it End? Romans 12 : 17 & 18, NIV. "Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what it right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." . . . So you'll cite Exodus thru Joshua as historical fact and claim that it's supported by science? But when it comes to you being obedient to the God's word, you won't do it? . . . Nice demonstration of Christian hypocrisy at work, End! Let's just stay with the question at hand for now BAA, we can get to this later. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 The question in hand, to use your terminology, is your double-faced use of the God's word when it suits you and your rejection of His word, when it doesn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Oh gheeze....how did this turn from epigenetics to Exodus. Let's suppose that the Exodus never happened. The POINT would be WHY is this aspect even in the story? Why does God stop a generation. The thread turned from epigenetic to Exodus because you wrote "The story was that He had Israel wander the desert for near 40 years to remove a generation." It's like you don't understand what your own words mean. Why would this aspect be in the story? Because the Hebrews made their god into a genocidal dictator. "You better do what the priest tells you or else God will kill your entire generation!" Nothing in Exodus suggest epigenetics. They didn't even had biology back then. Science had not been invented. The people who wrote Exodus were ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 If you're not following the thrust of my argument End, then let me sum it up for you in simple terms. Why should we accept anything that you say about the Bible when you spit upon it's content and treat it's author like shit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Nothing in Exodus suggest epigenetics. They didn't even had biology back then. Wrong Mary Lou. "Your sins (behaviors) will be visited" along with allowing a generation to die off and only allowing certain people "into" ......BOTH suggest epigenetics. Your denial is noteworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 A suggestion in a holy book isn't a historical fact and isn't bona fide science. Therefore, your argument lacks historical authenticity and adequate scientific rigor. It's therefore a non-argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 A suggestion in a holy book isn't a historical fact and isn't bona fide science. Therefore, your argument lacks historical authenticity and adequate scientific rigor. It's therefore a non-argument. Right, it's a SUGGESTION that points to bona fide science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarflungWanderer Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Nothing in Exodus suggest epigenetics. They didn't even had biology back then. Wrong Mary Lou. "Your sins (behaviors) will be visited" along with allowing a generation to die off and only allowing certain people "into" ......BOTH suggest epigenetics. Your denial is noteworthy. Let me break this down. Sins are not a scientific thing. At all. They're the Judeo-Christian concept of wrongs against Yahweh/God/Christ, and they're behavioral based. They are not hardcoded into genes, DNA, or anything of the sort. Epigenetics revolves around physical conditions affecting how DNA is read in their offspring. Behavior, unless you are dealing with a behavior-altering disorder, has nothing to do with Epigenetics. Your attempt to convolute modern science into something that has such a remarkably weak concept of how the universe works is mind boggling. Next thing you know, you're gonna be defending the concept of the Firmament... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Nothing in Exodus suggest epigenetics. They didn't even had biology back then. Wrong Mary Lou. "Your sins (behaviors) will be visited" along with allowing a generation to die off and only allowing certain people "into" ......BOTH suggest epigenetics. Your denial is noteworthy. Let me break this down. Sins are not a scientific thing. At all. They're the Judeo-Christian concept of wrongs against Yahweh/God/Christ, and they're behavioral based. They are not hardcoded into genes, DNA, or anything of the sort. Epigenetics revolves around physical conditions affecting how DNA is read in their offspring. Behavior, unless you are dealing with a behavior-altering disorder, has nothing to do with Epigenetics. Your attempt to convolute modern science into something that has such a remarkably weak concept of how the universe works is mind boggling. Next thing you know, you're gonna be defending the concept of the Firmament... Physical conditions can be altered dramatically by different behaviors....it's pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Nothing in Exodus suggest epigenetics. They didn't even had biology back then. Wrong Mary Lou. "Your sins (behaviors) will be visited" along with allowing a generation to die off and only allowing certain people "into" ......BOTH suggest epigenetics. Your denial is noteworthy. Gawd fooking damn! What it is: "Your sins will be visited" What End3 sees: "your behaviors will change your deoxyribonucleic acid" Delusion much? Why yes, you delusion very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarflungWanderer Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Physical conditions can be altered dramatically by different behaviors....it's pretty simple. No, no it isn't. Physical conditions that affect Epigenetics range from partial DNA structure deletion (and depending on if it's from the mother or the father's side that has the deletion) to starvation to smoking while pre-pubescent. Unless these behaviors are causing one of these things, and given the fact that mana is supposedly raining from heaven and tobacco won't be discovered by the West for a few millennia, no one's behavior will effect their children and grandchildren. I do not believe you understand a single thing about how Epigenetics works and what behaviors effect what. And for the record, you didn't respond to the fact that the ancient Israelites had an extremely weak grasp of the mechanics of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 So why should we pay any attention to your SUGGESTION about epigenetics and the Bible, when you spit upon scripture and treat it's author like shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Physical conditions can be altered dramatically by different behaviors....it's pretty simple. Your thinking is simple. That is why you can turn anything into a relationship of Grace. The actual science is very complex which is why you are oblivious to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Hint: We'll take what you say about the Bible seriously End, when you take what it says seriously... ...and put it's words into action in this forum! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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