Guest end3 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Remember BAA, according to end3, the people (innocent children) in the above pics told god to shove it, so they are learning in gods university of hard knocks. End3 cannot explain how a baby can tell god to shove it, but as long as were dwelling in the region of insanity and magical thinking, we'll just agree that the baby told god to shove it while in the womb. CC...is this post real? Did Florduh just not explain my position far more eloquently than I, yet you want to hold me to explaining that these children suffer because we make choices contrary to God? What choices did the children make that were contrary to god? If you say it is the parents choices that are contrary to god, then why not make the parents suffer, why the children instead? Which bring up the question....again.....<sighs>.......What did the CHILDREN do to deserve this????????? Not what WE did/do according to your logic, what did the unborn/newborn children do to deserve this????? I did respond to this. MM said y'all understood the first time. Here goes again. The children likely did nothing to deserve this. Their suffering in my opinion, is a result of generations upon generations of not acting according to God. A child may suffer from the parents decisions for generations...literally. Now take two suffering children that have been influenced by bad decisions and have them mate and produce chillins. Now picture the outcome over 1000 years. Could we call this moral evolution? Yes, I think we might could. Let's try this again. WHY DO THE CHILDREN HAVE TO SUFFER FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S CRIMES? According to your logic, if you rob a bank, the rest of us should have to go to jail and be punished with you. Horseshit. Because children are dependent???? To your second sentence, yes, everyone is guilty per the premise. God says go visit people in jail. Love your neighbor....because we all do stupid shit. You follow there McFly? And in addition, this is the point of Christ, that because none of us are omniscient, Jesus has taken up the slack for our exceeding stupidity. Now, if you don't believe me, turn on your television and watch for at least 1 minute and you will have proof. Need I clarify any more, you just whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Remember BAA, according to end3, the people (innocent children) in the above pics told god to shove it, so they are learning in gods university of hard knocks. End3 cannot explain how a baby can tell god to shove it, but as long as were dwelling in the region of insanity and magical thinking, we'll just agree that the baby told god to shove it while in the womb. CC...is this post real? Did Florduh just not explain my position far more eloquently than I, yet you want to hold me to explaining that these children suffer because we make choices contrary to God? What choices did the children make that were contrary to god? If you say it is the parents choices that are contrary to god, then why not make the parents suffer, why the children instead? Which bring up the question....again.....<sighs>.......What did the CHILDREN do to deserve this????????? Not what WE did/do according to your logic, what did the unborn/newborn children do to deserve this????? I did respond to this. MM said y'all understood the first time. Here goes again. The children likely did nothing to deserve this. Their suffering in my opinion, is a result of generations upon generations of not acting according to God. A child may suffer from the parents decisions for generations...literally. Now take two suffering children that have been influenced by bad decisions and have them mate and produce chillins. Now picture the outcome over 1000 years. Could we call this moral evolution? Yes, I think we might could. Let's try this again. WHY DO THE CHILDREN HAVE TO SUFFER FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S CRIMES? According to your logic, if you rob a bank, the rest of us should have to go to jail and be punished with you. Horseshit. Because children are dependent???? Did I just read this? So god can and does take advantage of childrens' dependency and innocence? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 So if a child is dependant upon his parents, and his parents rob a bank, then the child should go to jail as well? Your logic is not logical, you have failed at every turn to answer my questions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Remember BAA, according to end3, the people (innocent children) in the above pics told god to shove it, so they are learning in gods university of hard knocks. End3 cannot explain how a baby can tell god to shove it, but as long as were dwelling in the region of insanity and magical thinking, we'll just agree that the baby told god to shove it while in the womb. CC...is this post real? Did Florduh just not explain my position far more eloquently than I, yet you want to hold me to explaining that these children suffer because we make choices contrary to God? What choices did the children make that were contrary to god? If you say it is the parents choices that are contrary to god, then why not make the parents suffer, why the children instead? Which bring up the question....again.....<sighs>.......What did the CHILDREN do to deserve this????????? Not what WE did/do according to your logic, what did the unborn/newborn children do to deserve this????? I did respond to this. MM said y'all understood the first time. Here goes again. The children likely did nothing to deserve this. Their suffering in my opinion, is a result of generations upon generations of not acting according to God. A child may suffer from the parents decisions for generations...literally. Now take two suffering children that have been influenced by bad decisions and have them mate and produce chillins. Now picture the outcome over 1000 years. Could we call this moral evolution? Yes, I think we might could. Let's try this again. WHY DO THE CHILDREN HAVE TO SUFFER FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S CRIMES? According to your logic, if you rob a bank, the rest of us should have to go to jail and be punished with you. Horseshit. Or putting Biblically, why do we ALL have to suffer pain, disease and death for Adam and Eve's one act of disobedience...? When God deliberately hid from them the fact that their one act of disobedience would have cosmic consequences...? All of creation was affected by their one sin - so all of creation has to suffer the consequences of their entrapment? Romans 8 : 18 - 25 18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. Why, End..? When it's God doing to trap Adam and Eve and make us ALL suffer for it..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 So if a child is dependant upon his parents, and his parents rob a bank, then the child should go to jail as well? Your logic is not logical, you have failed at every turn to answer my questions. I'm sorry you have not met my threshold for intelligence. Adios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Remember BAA, according to end3, the people (innocent children) in the above pics told god to shove it, so they are learning in gods university of hard knocks. End3 cannot explain how a baby can tell god to shove it, but as long as were dwelling in the region of insanity and magical thinking, we'll just agree that the baby told god to shove it while in the womb. CC...is this post real? Did Florduh just not explain my position far more eloquently than I, yet you want to hold me to explaining that these children suffer because we make choices contrary to God? What choices did the children make that were contrary to god? If you say it is the parents choices that are contrary to god, then why not make the parents suffer, why the children instead? Which bring up the question....again.....<sighs>.......What did the CHILDREN do to deserve this????????? Not what WE did/do according to your logic, what did the unborn/newborn children do to deserve this????? I did respond to this. MM said y'all understood the first time. Here goes again. The children likely did nothing to deserve this. Their suffering in my opinion, is a result of generations upon generations of not acting according to God. A child may suffer from the parents decisions for generations...literally. Now take two suffering children that have been influenced by bad decisions and have them mate and produce chillins. Now picture the outcome over 1000 years. Could we call this moral evolution? Yes, I think we might could. Let's try this again. WHY DO THE CHILDREN HAVE TO SUFFER FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S CRIMES? According to your logic, if you rob a bank, the rest of us should have to go to jail and be punished with you. Horseshit. Because children are dependent???? Did I just read this? So god can and does take advantage of childrens' dependency and innocence? What? Your guess is as good as mine. Every time i ask this person a legitimate question, they respond with some bizarre out of touch with reality response that has nothing to do with the question being asked. I cannot for the life of me tell what is wrong with this person. Maybe they are mentally ill, if they are, it would make all the sense in the world. Either way, i am through wasting my time. -peace/cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 So if a child is dependant upon his parents, and his parents rob a bank, then the child should go to jail as well? Your logic is not logical, you have failed at every turn to answer my questions. I'm sorry you have not met my threshold for intelligence. Adios. Put downs are no excuse for failing to provide evidence or adult reasoning end3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Typical christian, put them in a corner and they run for the nearest exit. Adios end3, thanks for proving me right. -Cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 10, 9, 8.......3, 2, 1. If a parent gets convicted of robbing a bank, then the parent is convicted, but likely the child suffers too for the crime of the parent......like being raised without a parent while they do time in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Their suffering in my opinion, is a result of generations upon generations of not acting according to God. Another one of End's opinions that is completely and demonstrably wrong. Because children are dependent???? To your second sentence, yes, everyone is guilty per the premise. And another one. It's like horse shit flying out of the horse's ass. I'm sorry you have not met my threshold for intelligence. And another one. End, CeilingCat is smarter than you are. In fact most people are smarter than you are. You shouldn't insult regarding intelligence. It looks ridiculous. Good thing you are trying to not be such an insufferable douchebag. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Another one of End's opinions that is completely and demonstrably wrong. No, science is more and more certain on this one all the time. See epigenetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Another one of End's opinions that is completely and demonstrably wrong. No, science is more and more certain on this one all the time. See epigenetics. I call bullshit. Prove that science is certain that suffering is the result of generation after generation of people not acting according to God. (Hint: you need to start by the way science proves God.) Then after that you can demonstrate how everybody is guilty. After that you can demonstrate how a man who communicates at first grade level and can't put together a single coherent thought is smarter than people who communicate and think clearly. Pure bullshit . . . just like all your other opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsman Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Its a biblical concept. Exodus 20:5 New International Version You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, Hitchens was bang on when he described heaven as north korea with the dear leader and his son. They practice multi generation punishment 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 What's truly mind-numbing is that there are people like y'all that believe your own actions have no relevance on others....much like the bank robber analogy. Constantly believing in your arrogance that you know what is good for others. Jesus got it right. Forgive them Father for they do not know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Or you can provide for me the mechanisms of the mind..... It's just a matter of time now....some scientists are saying the universe is about to quit expanding and crush us all back in to a singularity. Now THAT's UNITY FOLKS! Hope I get crushed next to some hot babes. I can't provide with anything - because you said it yourself End, the question cannot be answered. But you can answer why you believe an unanswerable question should be believed by faith. Why? Because the things we can not measure point to the things with no answer. Then here's a method for you, End. 1. There are things we cannot measure. (You need to say what these are.) 2. These un-measurable things point to other things. (You need to say how they do this pointing.) 3. There are things that are being pointed to. (You need to say what these are.) 4. These things being pointed to have no answer. (You need to say why they have no answer.) . . . Of course, if you haven't had a methodology until now, that really does re-emphasize what I said earlier. Your default position (on not being able to know the answer to something and having no method of finding out) should be one of disbelief and skepticism, not blind faith. . . . Anyway, now you have a method to work with End. As it happens, I have to run, so I can't stay and help you work thru these four points. However, I'll be interested to see what progress you've made when I log on tomorrow. Till then. Made any progress on the four numbered points, End..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 To add, isn't this today's mantra? "As long as it doesn't hurt anyone else". Most likely others did not mean to hurt y'all with religion. So I don't know how we may assume now that we DO know what and what will not hurt others. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 What's truly mind-numbing is that there are people like y'all that believe your own actions have no relevance on others....much like the bank robber analogy. Constantly believing in your arrogance that you know what is good for others. Jesus got it right. Forgive them Father for they do not know.... And people like you who believe that the actions of a man and a woman in a garden sealed the fate of the whole universe..? Now that's amazing..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Remember BAA, according to end3, the people (innocent children) in the above pics told god to shove it, so they are learning in gods university of hard knocks. End3 cannot explain how a baby can tell god to shove it, but as long as were dwelling in the region of insanity and magical thinking, we'll just agree that the baby told god to shove it while in the womb. CC...is this post real? Did Florduh just not explain my position far more eloquently than I, yet you want to hold me to explaining that these children suffer because we make choices contrary to God? What choices did the children make that were contrary to god? If you say it is the parents choices that are contrary to god, then why not make the parents suffer, why the children instead? Which bring up the question....again.....<sighs>.......What did the CHILDREN do to deserve this????????? Not what WE did/do according to your logic, what did the unborn/newborn children do to deserve this????? I did respond to this. MM said y'all understood the first time. Here goes again. The children likely did nothing to deserve this. Their suffering in my opinion, is a result of generations upon generations of not acting according to God. A child may suffer from the parents decisions for generations...literally. Now take two suffering children that have been influenced by bad decisions and have them mate and produce chillins. Now picture the outcome over 1000 years. Could we call this moral evolution? Yes, I think we might could. Let's try this again. WHY DO THE CHILDREN HAVE TO SUFFER FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S CRIMES? According to your logic, if you rob a bank, the rest of us should have to go to jail and be punished with you. Horseshit. Or putting Biblically, why do we ALL have to suffer pain, disease and death for Adam and Eve's one act of disobedience...? When God deliberately hid from them the fact that their one act of disobedience would have cosmic consequences...? All of creation was affected by their one sin - so all of creation has to suffer the consequences of their entrapment? Romans 8 : 18 - 25 18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. 22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. Why, End..? When it's God doing to trap Adam and Eve and make us ALL suffer for it..? (Bump!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 What's truly mind-numbing is that there are people like y'all that believe your own actions have no relevance on others....much like the bank robber analogy. Constantly believing in your arrogance that you know what is good for others. Jesus got it right. Forgive them Father for they do not know.... Name one person here who believes their own actions have no relevance on others. Name one. However I will require you to prove this by quoting them stating so. You might want to think carefuly before you make a false accusation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StJeffTheIncomprehensible Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 end3, while you are thinking up a response to BAA's challenge, you might want to consider that most modern Christians are smart enough to back away from the subject of the problem of evil. There's no way for you to win here. If in any way you defend how god has ordered creation you're bound to look like an ass. If you blame god--you're one step closer to denying his existence altogether! Have you ever read Voltaire's little book Candide? It's probably online somewhere, though I'm fond of the Penguin Classics translation by John Butts. If you get a chance, take a read. It's very short--you might read it in one sitting, or a few sittings if you like to proceed slowly. Entertaining, and quite useful in pointing out the silliness of all-things-work-together-for-good-best-of-all-possible-worlds theologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 What's truly mind-numbing is that there are people like y'all that believe your own actions have no relevance on others....much like the bank robber analogy. Constantly believing in your arrogance that you know what is good for others. Jesus got it right. Forgive them Father for they do not know.... Name one person here who believes their own actions have no relevance on others. Name one. However I will require you to prove this by quoting them stating so. You might want to think carefuly before you make a false accusation. MM, End doesn't worry about making false accusations. If he did, he wouldn't have made that false accusation of lying against me, here... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66846-christianity-and-personal-responsibility/page-14#.VRc1SPmsUuk ( #268) Idk BAA, I sure thought I remember you telling us that the gravitational waves they measured were FACT of the BB. I digress to you being all well read and everything. Where's all your responsibility to the community here to correct your lying. . . . But I've forgiven him. Unlike him, I don't need the divine threat of eternal hellfire to force encourage me to forgive others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 What's truly mind-numbing is that there are people like y'all that believe your own actions have no relevance on others....much like the bank robber analogy. Constantly believing in your arrogance that you know what is good for others. Jesus got it right. Forgive them Father for they do not know.... Name one person here who believes their own actions have no relevance on others. Name one. However I will require you to prove this by quoting them stating so. You might want to think carefuly before you make a false accusation. MM, End doesn't worry about making false accusations. If he did, he wouldn't have made that false accusation of lying against me, here... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66846-christianity-and-personal-responsibility/page-14#.VRc1SPmsUuk ( #268) Idk BAA, I sure thought I remember you telling us that the gravitational waves they measured were FACT of the BB. I digress to you being all well read and everything. Where's all your responsibility to the community here to correct your lying. Yeah well that shitty little god died so that End can break Commandment Number 9 all the time. On the one hand god supposedly hates sin but on the other hand all Christians get a license to sin as long as they keep up appearances. It's a relationship of Grace! (Say isn't it kind of weird how God himself only a few of commandments? Do as I say and not as I do!) But I've forgiven him. Unlike him, I don't need the divine threat of eternal hellfire to force encourage me to forgive others. In my experience Christian theology on forgiveness was the very thing that blocked me from forgiving people. I had to become an atheist to learn how. So ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I've been thinking of just how to say this, regarding knowing/not knowing what is best for you or someone else and how far you can go with just a good intention to help. In the old days before medicine had developed, people would do things like cover up wounds with manure. These days we know that wounds heal best when they're kept clean, and we know they may develop horrible complications if there's things like poop in them. Even doing nothing to the wound is usually better than putting poop in it. Ok, then we have the starving kids in Africa. We know the place is overpopulated and AIDS spreads like crazy and causes suffering. We have invented contraception, the condom, that when correctly used, effectively reduces both unwanted pregnancies and AIDS spreading. What does the Pope do, as the authority figure he is? He campaigns against condoms! That to me is like putting poop in an open wound, except for one major difference: In the old days, the people honestly didn't know better. Today, condoms have been around for decades, and there is an endless supply of information available about them reducing pregnancies and STDs, and the only thing the Pope has against that is an ancient book and superstition. He chooses ignorancy. It is not okay to be really stupid and say it's well intended and thus must be completely forgiven. The Christians who make the problems worse with their "help" should be locked up. Just like the homeopath who tells ill people to stop taking their medicine, or the tarot reader who tells an obviously unstable client not to see a trained therapist but instead use their "gifts" and "sensitivity". Most criminals too think their crime was the best thing they could do at the time, the right thing. Are they actually right too, since they're so "persecuted"? (edit: little clarifications added) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomatheist Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 God doesn't prevent terrible things because: well, it boils down to god not existing. I could say god doesn't care, but fortunately I don't believe in him. I do know one thing though, we are truely living in the end times of Xianity. Pastors better work super hard and collect as much tithe money for their own personal gain as possible, as church attendance dwindles down very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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