Shaman Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hey Shaman, Thanks for your response! It will be interesting to see what you come up with. Cheers, Amelia well i was expecting for you to say that none of what I do will benefit you since you are an Atheist and do no longer believe in a spirit, afterlife or any other of those non scientific proving mumbo jumbo.. well your ancestors are proud of you for they too are atheist...no, i'm not talking about old gramps who crook not so long ago...I'm talking about the one who lived 2000 years before Jesus. They just want to know why you are going backward instead of going forward with you life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hey Shaman, I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic - open to anything pretty much. Cheers, Amelia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hey Shaman, Thanks for your response! It will be interesting to see what you come up with. Cheers, Amelia well i was expecting for you to say that none of what I do will benefit you since you are an Atheist and do no longer believe in a spirit, afterlife or any other of those non scientific proving mumbo jumbo.. well your ancestors are proud of you for they too are atheist...no, i'm not talking about old gramps who crook not so long ago...I'm talking about the one who lived 2000 years before Jesus. They just want to know why you are going backward instead of going forward with you life. Shaman, I am unsure on how to respond to such a post. You are not a Christian perhaps, but you take the same kind of privileges with another person's life as xians do--you are telling Amelia what she should do and how she should live her life just like xians do. (You say she should move forward, as though she were NOT moving forward.) We don't appreciate that on this board. She did not respond to you as you expected. Doesn't that tell you that perhaps you don't know her well enough to contact her ancestors? The "message" you bring from the "underworld" sounds so very much like perhaps all you contacted was some other part of your own psyche just like the xians do when they "pray." You might want to give this some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaman Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hey Shaman, Thanks for your response! It will be interesting to see what you come up with. Cheers, Amelia well i was expecting for you to say that none of what I do will benefit you since you are an Atheist and do no longer believe in a spirit, afterlife or any other of those non scientific proving mumbo jumbo.. well your ancestors are proud of you for they too are atheist...no, i'm not talking about old gramps who crook not so long ago...I'm talking about the one who lived 2000 years before Jesus. They just want to know why you are going backward instead of going forward with you life. Shaman, I am unsure on how to respond to such a post. You are not a Christian perhaps, but you take the same kind of privileges with another person's life as xians do--you are telling Amelia what she should do and how she should live her life just like xians do. (You say she should move forward, as though she were NOT moving forward.) We don't appreciate that on this board. She did not respond to you as you expected. Doesn't that tell you that perhaps you don't know her well enough to contact her ancestors? The "message" you bring from the "underworld" sounds so very much like perhaps all you contacted was some other part of your own psyche just like the xians do when they "pray." You might want to give this some thought. can you keep that thought and go here to add your input into this? Hate hijacking someone elses thread http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=14221&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 If Amelia is at all like myself, she needs loving support more than exhortations to "get help." These exhortations become weapons in the hands of people who cannot handle the anger. As such, they simply add to the abuse and hurt. MCW, I will let Amelia speak for herself because she is very capable of doing this but my suggestion would be that the advice was uncalled for. Perhaps I didn't phrase things well? I didn't mean for my advice to come across as glib nor was it to try to shift the blame. I understand passive aggressive behavior. All I wanted to do was to try to get her to address her own anger...the anger she controls. As you state, for yourself, it is almost like a post traumatic stress disorder and it can really eat away at a person. Sometimes, in addition to the "loving support" (that she seems to be getting from others) it can help to get a totally uninvolved 3rd party to unload your problems onto. They can not only give you a new perspective on looking at things (not to excuse these other peoples behavior but just to allow you to drop some of the anger that you carry around...and that your loved ones really do have to unfairly deal with whether you think so or not...Is it fair to those around you that you seethe over a letter or email? No, it's not. Having another outlet, like a therapist, can unburden them). The thought that, perhaps, her mother might, in the future, could be brought into therapy was just that...a thought. If it did happen it would at least allow for a safe environment for Amelia to get some of her thoughts out and if nothing comes of it, well, so what? At least she had her say and the therapist could "interpret" so the mother has no real way of saying she never understood or had the opportunity to speak since a good therapist would make sure this did happen. My wife was accusing me of all sorts of crazy things when I came to this site. I never wrote to any online forums at all before then. My life went from fantastic to just a living nightmare. As I said, I was literally full of non-stop rage for nearly the entire year of 2005. I used this site, friends, family, writing letters to myself, to my wife (they were crazy-harsh) and family counseling (that she lied in non-stop but I raged on so I got a little 3rd party aggression out even though it was useless for mending our relationship). I used all these "tools" so that these little "things" didn't set me off (the wrong word or look could literally make me explode...anywhere...a crowded restaurant...slamming my fists into a table and yelling...I did NOT care it had gotten bad even though I thought I was getting better). I still have some issues but the rage is gone. My anger is under control and I'm back to normal (I'm pretty slow to anger normally). I'm still working on my relationship but now I see her problems as her problems. I don't (usually) get angry when she tries to pull these passive aggressive stunts on me (blaming me for her shortcomings...like if she does something it's somehow my fault). I tell her what the deal really is and she can take it or leave it. She's still here (and trust me she doesn't need me for support...quite the opposite really) so I think it's soaking in that I won't take that crap anymore. Anyhow, I didn't want to make this about me but maybe a little peek at my life and my anger problem will help explain why I locked in on that aspect of things. Does this make more sense? I hope it does. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 can you keep that thought and go here to add your input into this? Hate hijacking someone elses thread http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=14221&hl= When I defend an old friend against a hostile newby I don't think I am hijacking anyone's thread. You go jump on your tables and have your fancy trances. Just don't break any good china--or tables. This forum exists to *encourage* exChristians. Not to talk to their dead ancestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Hey there MWC, Thanks for sharing your experience and views. I appreciate that. It sounds like you went through a really tough time. For me, I'm not angry at all. One thing I did learn though in my therapy sessions was that it is okay to feel angry or upset. You just don't want to let that consume you. Like I said, you need to be familiar with the entire story and family dynamic I have had, to understand the true context of the letter. But no, I don't stew for days and days. Usually, if I receive something horrible (like the email from my grandfather), I'll feel upset for a little while and then move on. I've moved on from all that now, and life is good. But it is okay to feel sad or upset or even angry at times. It is also okay to share your experiences because that can help others, and yourself. Cheers, Amelia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I know that rage isn't good, but mine's out now. ... I just thought I'd share the final chapter of the story so to speak, since I have decided now not to contact any of them again. I didn't see this until I typed up my tome. I'm truly glad that your rage is all worked out. While I am always sad when I hear that people cut off from their family, probably because I am lucky and have a good relationship with my own, I do understand that sometimes it has to happen. I do hope that you keep an open mind, just in case your mom does come around (stranger things have been known to happen...and it's my little bit of hope I guess) but your well being is what's truly important so I'm happy you're on a path that is finally working for you. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I know that rage isn't good, but mine's out now. ... I just thought I'd share the final chapter of the story so to speak, since I have decided now not to contact any of them again. I didn't see this until I typed up my tome. I'm truly glad that your rage is all worked out. While I am always sad when I hear that people cut off from their family, probably because I am lucky and have a good relationship with my own, I do understand that sometimes it has to happen. I do hope that you keep an open mind, just in case your mom does come around (stranger things have been known to happen...and it's my little bit of hope I guess) but your well being is what's truly important so I'm happy you're on a path that is finally working for you. mwc Hey MWC, That's okay! I know that it is hard for people who have really good families to comprehend that some are just toxic. My mother knows the situation and what she needs to do to get talking with me again. For now though, it's best to maintain the radio silence. She will think about it some more then, and she might come around. I wish her well though. The thing is, if you have been abused for a long time from childhood, to go back to being in a relationship with them is like going back into that horrible period again. You need to move on. Victims of crime do not become friends with their perpetrators. They have to just push on and live a good and happy life, for their own good. Invalidation is a horrible thing. Imagine if you were abused as a kid, and you tried to tell your parents and they just said you were making it up. Abuse impacts in big ways on your life - particularly when you are working through it - and to have invalidating family members on your back, just telling you to get over it...nah that really hurts. That's why you need to break away. Also, if people think the worst of you, which my parents do of me, you can't really be in relationship. It's poison. Now though, the abusive background doesn't come to mind much anymore, since I have moved on and away from the people who did it. It's only if they are in touch with me, that it reminds me. Similar to how victims of crime get upset when they find out their perpetrator is getting out of jail, or if the perp writes them a letter. It can be painful. My psych though was amazed at my attitude and how I am focused on my life now and moving on with the great things. Cheers, Amelia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 The tree of life is like this... God, your parents then you...if you can not deal with god then at least deal with your family but if your family is not even a part of the equation then it is now all up to you. Shamanism is my way of life and I will do a ritual for you as I will try to travel back to the underworld to communicate with your dead ancestors to see what is their take on this. The living is bullchitting with you so mightest well ask the dead for guildance Just helping you out with the ying and the yang to balance yourself out. Nah, I think Shaman is the one "bullchitting." The Tree Of Life in traditional shamanism has nothing to do with "God -> parents -> you." Where you got this BS information is anyone's guess. Actually, what you are teaching sounds more like a branch of Kabbalah than anything. Leave the girl alone. My wife was abused as a child and she has had to separate herself from her family in order to become a healthier, happier person. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about. When you've walked in her shoes then maybe you'd have something to say, but what you've said borders on laying a guilt trip on her for separating herself from her abusive family. Lay the fuck off, poser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaman Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 The tree of life is like this... God, your parents then you...if you can not deal with god then at least deal with your family but if your family is not even a part of the equation then it is now all up to you. Shamanism is my way of life and I will do a ritual for you as I will try to travel back to the underworld to communicate with your dead ancestors to see what is their take on this. The living is bullchitting with you so mightest well ask the dead for guildance Just helping you out with the ying and the yang to balance yourself out. Nah, I think Shaman is the one "bullchitting." The Tree Of Life in traditional shamanism has nothing to do with "God -> parents -> you." Where you got this BS information is anyone's guess. Actually, what you are teaching sounds more like a branch of Kabbalah than anything. Leave the girl alone. My wife was abused as a child and she has had to separate herself from her family in order to become a healthier, happier person. You have no fucking clue what you are talking about. When you've walked in her shoes then maybe you'd have something to say, but what you've said borders on laying a guilt trip on her for separating herself from her abusive family. Lay the fuck off, poser. God -> parents -> you ....is more of a Christianity principle and has nothing to do with Shamanism since the shamanist way of life does not have a god in it. For them is just ancestor -> parents -> you .... this is an ex christian site so for being an ex christian, just thought I threw in something that hits closer to home....and your wife being abuse as a child is just a sad story so stop blaming on some imaginary God for them causal and effect events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelli Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 God -> parents -> you ....is more of a Christianity principle and has nothing to do with Shamanism since the shamanist way of life does not have a god in it. For them is just ancestor -> parents -> you .... this is an ex christian site so for being an ex christian, just thought I threw in something that hits closer to home....and your wife being abuse as a child is just a sad story so stop blaming on some imaginary God for them causal and effect events. Well if you haven't noticed, this is an EX christian forum, so why the hell would you post some asinine christian principle as advice? And who the fuck said I was blaming god for anything? I don't blame the christian god for anything, as I don't believe he exists. I blame the dumb motherfucker who abused her. He should have his balls cut off and left to bleed to death. So once again, go fuck yourself ya dumb shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Invalidation is a horrible thing. Imagine if you were abused as a kid, and you tried to tell your parents and they just said you were making it up. Abuse impacts in big ways on your life - particularly when you are working through it - and to have invalidating family members on your back, just telling you to get over it...nah that really hurts. That's why you need to break away. Also, if people think the worst of you, which my parents do of me, you can't really be in relationship. It's poison. Now though, the abusive background doesn't come to mind much anymore, since I have moved on and away from the people who did it. It's only if they are in touch with me, that it reminds me. Similar to how victims of crime get upset when they find out their perpetrator is getting out of jail, or if the perp writes them a letter. It can be painful. My psych though was amazed at my attitude and how I am focused on my life now and moving on with the great things. Yeah, I got lucky. My biological dad beat the hell out of my mom and brother so they know all this stuff (he taught my sister to beat my brother by proxy...she was young and didn't know it wasn't a game). I think that's why we're so close now. I came along and my grandparents literally paid him (cash and a car) to leave. I only have two memories of him (one of him holding my mom at gunpoint...which he did regularly it turns out). My dad, his replacement, is a much better person by far and I think I tend to overlook his problems knowing what "could have been." Oh well...real dad is dead and no one wanted the ashes. Good riddance. I did end up with a half-sister somewhere and rumors of more. Too bad there was no huge inheritance to be found. My wife never could understand why I never lifted a finger to meet him. I had a dad...so who needed some abusive piece of filth? I don't know what I would have done had he tried to contact me. I guess I can sort of see your point of view in this regard. Sometimes you're just better off without them in your life. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amelia Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Yeah, I got lucky. My biological dad beat the hell out of my mom and brother so they know all this stuff (he taught my sister to beat my brother by proxy...she was young and didn't know it wasn't a game). I think that's why we're so close now. I came along and my grandparents literally paid him (cash and a car) to leave. I only have two memories of him (one of him holding my mom at gunpoint...which he did regularly it turns out). My dad, his replacement, is a much better person by far and I think I tend to overlook his problems knowing what "could have been." Oh well...real dad is dead and no one wanted the ashes. Good riddance. I did end up with a half-sister somewhere and rumors of more. Too bad there was no huge inheritance to be found. My wife never could understand why I never lifted a finger to meet him. I had a dad...so who needed some abusive piece of filth? I don't know what I would have done had he tried to contact me. I guess I can sort of see your point of view in this regard. Sometimes you're just better off without them in your life. mwc Hi MWC, Gee, that's pretty horrible though what they went through and those two memories you have of your natural father. That said though, it's good to see that you are close with your family right now and that the bad egg is out of your life! Good on you for getting on with your life! Cheers, Amelia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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