Demonic Experience

[NotBlinded]

Why would she want to go back to God when he is the one that sent the demons to her?

 

ITA, and doesn't Jesus say something that casting out of demons by demons (when the Pharisees accused him of working for Satan) would be working AGAINST satan? Why would Satan cast out Satan? Wouldn't that apply in reverse? WHy would god summon demons only to fight against what HE has summoned in the first place?

 

Maybe I should of asked, "Wouldn't that be sort of like a doctor purposelly injecting someone with say the ebola virus, allowing the person to suffer a few hours or days (being terrified) and then coming to the rescue with healing and then wanting the person that THEY inflicted in the first place to be grateful?"

Jubilant, I wasn't rolling my eyes at you but with you!

 

Yes...they should also be very, very afraid that it will happen again if they every feel the need to stray again.

 

What, you turned away from me? I will send my demons to bring you back and you will thank me for it.

 

Oh, that is just so twisted! I could maybe understand Peach saying that the devil sent her demons, but she said this was a sign from God. To her, it should have been a sign from the devil that if she doesn't return to her God, then Satan would get her. Of course, that only makes a fraction more sense than if God sent the demons because God created the demons to begin with, but sheesh!

 

That's what I thought happened to me one time. I thought Satan was after me by grabbing my hair through and open window. I didn't think God sent the demon because after all, I was just talked to by God through a woman that spoke in tongues. At lease I made the distinction of power even though that is twisted too! Oh, the horrible days of belief in that madness...

[NotBlinded]

You guys are forgetting a very important point; if religion made sense, no one would believe in it. The less it makes sense the firmer they believer it.

You're right. That's because they don't have the mind of God! If it made sense, they would be omniscient and that is just heretical to even contemplate. (That's a fundy's excuse...not mine!)

[Amethyst]

If you believe in any version of religion, you are not agnostic. Agnostic means you do not know whether or not a god exists, not just the Christian god. Really you sound Christian to me.

[Dave]

If you believe in any version of religion, you are not agnostic. Agnostic means you do not know whether or not a god exists, not just the Christian god. Really you sound Christian to me.

As christians do, they lied. If you get just about any christian talking along enough they will tell you that at one time their were an Atheist or non christian. I've even heard it from people that I've known since childhood and I know they were a christian the whole time! For being part of a religion that tells them no to lie, they sure lie a lot.

[Amethyst]

If you believe in any version of religion, you are not agnostic. Agnostic means you do not know whether or not a god exists, not just the Christian god. Really you sound Christian to me.

As christians do, they lied. If you get just about any christian talking along enough they will tell you that at one time their were an Atheist or non christian. I've even heard it from people that I've known since childhood and I know they were a christian the whole time! For being part of a religion that tells them no to lie, they sure lie a lot.

 

Well, I can see it if they had deconverted, and thought they were agnostic. But if they changed their mind and believe in that stuff once again, they are agnostic no longer.

[sparkyone]

Hey, this reminds me of something I've heard from church, that Santa is like Satan, mainly because the same letters are used in both words (does this mean god and dog are interchangeable?), and supposedly he's (satan) omnipresent and omniscient just like Santa. Oh, I missed that lesson where we learned that satan is both of those things. I thought only God was all-knowing, etc. Also, on another note, that if someone is led astray from the church it's by someone who is demon possessed or something. I even heard a rumor that someone thinks I might be possessed because I'm questioning the Bible's veracity. The pastor also said that if you think the Bible has contradictions then you're not smart enough to read the Bible for what it says but that you can make it say anything you want it to (I see him doing that at times) and you aren't really saved if you think it has even one error. (KJV 1611, of course)

I wrote down several comments the pastor said that were obviously inaccurate or contradictory. I'm just so tired of listening to it, but haven't made the break yet because of my family being there.

 

Sparkyone

[Dave]

Well, I can see it if they had deconverted, and thought they were agnostic. But if they changed their mind and believe in that stuff once again, they are agnostic no longer.

But that's not what they are doing. For some the type of christian they were before was not the right kind. Their new version of the same religion tells them that they were not doing it right and their old version should be considered not a "true" christian or an Atheist.

 

For others, it's an outright lie. A few weeks ago someone here that had just converted confessed to such a lie.

[NotBlinded]

If you believe in any version of religion, you are not agnostic. Agnostic means you do not know whether or not a god exists, not just the Christian god. Really you sound Christian to me.

Yes, that is a pretty hard mind-set to break away from. Even if they don't see themselves as believing in God anymore, they are still giving the religion credit by claiming that it is either the Christian god or no God. They have for so long attributed the one true™ God to the Christian God that there can be no other so when they break away, that thinking still holds.

 

It's a damn shame what it does to the mind.

[NotBlinded]

If you believe in any version of religion, you are not agnostic. Agnostic means you do not know whether or not a god exists, not just the Christian god. Really you sound Christian to me.

As christians do, they lied. If you get just about any christian talking along enough they will tell you that at one time their were an Atheist or non christian. I've even heard it from people that I've known since childhood and I know they were a christian the whole time! For being part of a religion that tells them no to lie, they sure lie a lot.

Dave, I don't think that they are purposefully lying (most of them). It's just hard to break away completely from thinking that it's the Christian God or none. It happened to me and I didn't even realize what I was doing. We know from experience how stong that belief can be and how much of a hold it can have on our thinking whether we want it to or not.

[Thackerie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

 

If true (and since it comes from a evangelical christian, there's every reason to suspect it's not), sleep paralysis could well be the explanation. Or it could be due to any number of neurological causes.

 

When I'm in bed, I often feel little cat feet walking up my legs. A few years ago, I was actually dumb enough to think it might be the ghost of a beloved pet who had passed on, but I was never dumb enough or looney-tunie enough to blame it on demons. Now, I know, as confirmed by my neurologist, its just one of the many symptoms of multiple sclerosis.

[Dave]

Dave, I don't think that they are purposefully lying (most of them).

I think that many of them are lying on purpose. "I was once like you," is a line I've heard far too often to believe it coming from christian. If they ever were like me, they could not go back into the darkness of religion.

It's just hard to break away completely from thinking that it's the Christian God or none. It happened to me and I didn't even realize what I was doing. We know from experience how stong that belief can be and how much of a hold it can have on our thinking whether we want it to or not.

I understand how tight a grip a religion can have on someone - even those that claim to have a moderate or liberal view of religion. I just find it hard to believe that every christian I've talked to was once an Atheist.

[NotBlinded]

Dave, I don't think that they are purposefully lying (most of them).

I think that many of them are lying on purpose. "I was once like you," is a line I've heard far too often to believe it coming from christian. If they ever were like me, they could not go back into the darkness of religion.

It's just hard to break away completely from thinking that it's the Christian God or none. It happened to me and I didn't even realize what I was doing. We know from experience how stong that belief can be and how much of a hold it can have on our thinking whether we want it to or not.

I understand how tight a grip a religion can have on someone - even those that claim to have a moderate or liberal view of religion. I just find it hard to believe that every christian I've talked to was once an Atheist.

You may be right. I just like to think it's more of a lack of understanding what atheism means when they say something like that. Heck if I know.

[Dave]

You may be right. I just like to think it's more of a lack of understanding what atheism means when they say something like that. Heck if I know.

I think I mentioned it earlier, some see their previous way of believing as being the same as Atheism because they were believing wrong. Now that they are believing right, they are a "True" christian.

[Taphophilia]

I wonder if Ms. Peach was here to do just what she did, trying to bring us back. Was she a Christian in Ex-Christian clothing?

I read her posts and the "Christianese" is very apparent.

 

Like this:

 

I guess I had to learn the hard way because I used to have a hard time refraining from putting down Christianity or religion in general when hubby would talk religion. I still slip up every once in a while. It upset him a lot, but now I'm a better wife and more considerate of his feelings.

 

Would an Ex-Christian woman say something like this?

[AKR]

I wonder if Ms. Peach was here to do just what she did, trying to bring us back. Was she a Christian in Ex-Christian clothing?

I read her posts and the "Christianese" is very apparent.

 

Like this:

 

I guess I had to learn the hard way because I used to have a hard time refraining from putting down Christianity or religion in general when hubby would talk religion. I still slip up every once in a while. It upset him a lot, but now I'm a better wife and more considerate of his feelings.

 

Would an Ex-Christian woman say something like this?

 

 

no no, she was a sheep in wolf's clothing. oh wow, a whole 15 posts! i bet you all knew her so well! and now that she has taken an illogical jump to christianity, we must all go to church this sunday.

[Vixentrox]

Well wasnt that story just.....peachy.

[Artur]

*

[roman]

Peachy, baby, you got to quit scoring yo acid on the street. They cuttin that shit with rat poison, hoss bugger.

[Amethyst]

If you believe in any version of religion, you are not agnostic. Agnostic means you do not know whether or not a god exists, not just the Christian god. Really you sound Christian to me.

Yes, that is a pretty hard mind-set to break away from. Even if they don't see themselves as believing in God anymore, they are still giving the religion credit by claiming that it is either the Christian god or no God. They have for so long attributed the one true God to the Christian God that there can be no other so when they break away, that thinking still holds.

 

It's a damn shame what it does to the mind.

 

Right, the brainwashing is pretty extensive. For a long time, even after I gave up my literal beliefs, I still clung to the possibility that the Christian god existed in some form.

[Mythra]

It was sometime after we had both gone to sleep when I awoke to the feeling of something jumping up on our bed and laying upon my leg. I could clearly feel the weight. I got up thinking that one of the cats must have somehow managed to stay in our room when I thought for sure I had cast them out before we went to bed.

 

Well, this is just too fuckin weird. I just had this exact same experience. Woke up in the middle of a blood-curdling scream. Threw off the covers in a goddamn moment of sheer terror. I had just been asleep for less than an hour before I felt something jump on my legs. (no, I'm not being my usual smart-ass self) - this is a no-shit deal here.

 

I don't have any cats. Or dogs. And I felt something jump on my legs.

 

So, now I have this same experience as Peach. But I'm sure as hell not attributing it to demons. I was asleep, for chrissake.

 

If it was demons, they sure are chicken-shit demons. Come when I'm awake ya little cocksuckers...

 

Still, it was a weird experience. I can see how someone who was obsessed with ghoulies, gargoyles, and demons could be freaked out.

[Mythra]

So, then, after having such an experience I suppose we have a couple of choices. Get down on your knees and ask God for protection, or use your rational mind and think about this a little bit.

 

Okay. Here it is. Night Terrors. AKA Pavor Nocturnus. Evidently not a terribly uncommon sleep disorder:

 

What is a Night Terror?

 

Night terrors differ from nightmares in many ways. "These two types of anxiety dreams reflect the characteristic differences between an awakening from REM sleep and on awakening from the deep sleep stage of non-REM sleep." (Borbely, 1986, pg. 58) As we already know nightmares take place during the REM while night terrors take place within the deepest level of NREM sleep. "The night terror is usually an event of the early part of the night when most stage 4 is present, while the nightmare can take place in any REM period." (Arkin et al, 1978, pg.533) Another area where these two parasomnias differ is that people waking up from a nightmare are fully aware they were dreaming while people from night terrors wake up confused, disoriented, and drowsy. "Here the dreamer wakes up screaming and still frightened; he is covered with perspiration and is breathing rapidly. The individual is usually unaware of what has just occurred." (Borbely, 1986, pg. 58)

 

Another area in which nightmares and night terrors differ is in the physiological area of entering into the dream. "This finding suggests that in stage 4 night terror the frightening content does not build up gradually as in REM anxiety dream, rather it occurs suddenly, immediately igniting the arousal reaction." (Arkin et al, 1978, pg. 541) This could explain the different bodily reactions that people have depending on what stage of sleep they are in.

 

"Also, the night terror is physiologically much more intense than the REM nightmare (heart rates have almost tripled for the night terror while in the REM anxiety dream the greatest heart rate acceleration at our laboratory was from 76-92 beats per min)." (Arkin et al, 1978, pg. 533)

 

To look at another difference between the two parasomnias one must again look at content. Before we looked at the nightmare as a form of running away or being chased while night terrors usually involve some sort of physical entrapment. "Some of the most severe night terrors involved being crushed or struck by some sudden force, things closing in or being entrapped in a small area, being left alone or abandoned, and choking or swallowing something..." (Arkin et al, 1978, pg. 537)

 

The following is an example of a studied individual being woken up and asked what he was dreaming:

 

"Somebody said... Somebody... Oh shit... Somebody said something. I didn't even remember what the person said. All of a sudden I felt on all sides of me like, uh, metal, or stone doors. In other words I was someplace. Probably in a basement, and like on every side of me was, except on, which I could sort of see maybe a window, every side was like stone or something, stopped up, almost like when I was in a tomb. And so I started... uh, screaming. I didn't realise that there was still a... an opening of some kind." (Arkin et al, 1978, pg. 537)

 

From the paper "Nightmares and Night Terrors: the Horror Movies of the Mind.

 

Here

[Onyx]

Demons doesn't exist because I haven't been possessed by one. If I was, it'd be called mental illness, even then, it's not a demon. Demons is used to explain the bad unknown by ancient people. It's time we stop doing that. It has hurt too much people for much too long. For what? Nothing.

 

Demons are good fictional villains though.

[Vixentrox]

Good movie fodder too. Demons can make for scary movies. But then, so do aliens.

[Poonis]

I know that you may or may not believe me, but

 

Stop right there. Whenever someone asks someone else to believe them, it is because what they have to say cannot stand on its own merit. What necessitates belief? Ignorance and/or intentional deceit.

[Shawn]

And even if it were a malevolent noncorporeal life-form, that still doesn't mean that Xianity is the way to go. Tales of "demonic" entities have existed centuries before Xianity, and there have been methods of dealing with them far older than the mythical Jebus. If you believe it was some "evil" entity, to assume that Xianity has the explanation and the cure just because Xianity has teachings about "demons" is fallacious; in that case, there are a plethora of religions to study.

 

I come from a heavy spiritual background as some of you know, and I can safely say that there are ways of dealing with spirits and getting rid of them without Jesus or anyone else. Exactly Varokhar, just because Christianity talks about demons, doesn't mean it's suddenly THE solution. "The Bible talks about casting demons out, ergo, I will become a Christian to get rid of mine."

 

A dog has 4 legs

A table has 4 legs

A dog is really a table!

 

I'll give a short story about my experience with spirits. One time, I played around with channeling (a form of witchcraft). I called forth a spirit, and it manifested. I was very ignorant. Anyway, it tried to hurt me and even struck me sometimes as I slept. I went to mental health doctors and they amazingly could not help me and even were scared of me after awhile. I ran off to Jesus one day and alot of the attacks stopped, BUT, I *believed* it would because I prayed to Jesus (and the Bible is clear you only pray to the Father)! It did not leave me alone completely, however. Also, pastors who were supposedly saved and running church's had no power to cast it out either. I tried about 10 different pastors!!! So much for their faith! The Bible is pretty explicit on that as well, if you are TRULY a believer, you will do miracles and cast demons out like it's kids stuff! SO, 10 pastors at various mainstream big church's must not truly believe! Oh no, Mr. Bill!!!!!!

 

One day I just got tired of this shit, and I started cursing out the spirit, and doing things I knew it hated (it was full of hate and anger). So I decided to love and be kind to people. And I also kept putting it down with insults (which I had to be careful, I'd seem like a nut to 'normal' people). Presto! It was forced to leave me! Another 'funny' thing is that ever since practicing Tai Chi and Qi Gong (and weightlifting), I had far more spiritual might and made it far easier to resist the demon till I could break the fucker. WHAT? Jaysus wasn't involved? Pastor Billy Bob at the Church of Jesus Chri$t couldn't remove it by faith?

 

It's all about attraction...if I am happy and positive, guess who I attract?

If I am negative and hateful, guess who I attract?

 

Anyway, it's 8:32 am here in Plano. And I am hungry for a #3 combo at Burger King!

 

Shawn :-)