Ouroboros Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Wishful and others, Lets duke this out. I felt the discussion in the other thread was sidetracking a bit too much and it became a discussion between Wishful and everyone else. And we're trying to keep the topics somewhat on track, and not too long (some have a problem viewing them on slow modems... or something). Lets start with the question about the historicity and accuracy of the Bible. Wishful claims the historical evidence for the Bible is far better than any other literature, and he also claims the Bible is without fault or contradiction. So lets hear it. What's the evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Wishful and others, Lets duke this out. I felt the discussion in the other thread was sidetracking a bit too much and it became a discussion between Wishful and everyone else. And we're trying to keep the topics somewhat on track, and not too long (some have a problem viewing them on slow modems... or something). Lets start with the question about the historicity and accuracy of the Bible. Wishful claims the historical evidence for the Bible is far better than any other literature, and he also claims the Bible is without fault or contradiction. So lets hear it. What's the evidence? I posted before I saw you created this. You want to move my last post in that thread to here? It's post# 613 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 Nah, that's okay. Lets just pick up from here. I want to hear Wishful's outstanding evidence for the accuracy of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Maybe this would work better if it was wishful V someone in the Colosseum... then it's less of a cluster fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 Okay. I'll move this to the Colosseum, and we'll keep it civilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fellthecross Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 Wishful and others, Lets duke this out. I felt the discussion in the other thread was sidetracking a bit too much and it became a discussion between Wishful and everyone else. And we're trying to keep the topics somewhat on track, and not too long (some have a problem viewing them on slow modems... or something). Lets start with the question about the historicity and accuracy of the Bible. Wishful claims the historical evidence for the Bible is far better than any other literature, and he also claims the Bible is without fault or contradiction. So lets hear it. What's the evidence? Are there any more Christians here beside Wishful, Han Solo? I would love to hear also but the truth is there is no serious evidence and the Christians know that jolly well. FTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted September 17, 2007 Author Share Posted September 17, 2007 Other Christians here? Yup. Several that come and go, like Open_Minded, and now lately Mad Gerbil showing up a bit. BuddyFerris is an active Christian here now. And I know we have a few others that pop in now and then, and one of them sounds more like an Ex-Christian now when he does. Wishful left btw, and we got to know he was a she, and Mr Wishful joined in with a friend for a while too, and it seems like Mrs and Mr Wishful separated. We haven't heard from them lately. I hope she's okay, because it seemed like she started to doubt the ol' time religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fellthecross Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Other Christians here? Yup. Several that come and go, like Open_Minded, and now lately Mad Gerbil showing up a bit. BuddyFerris is an active Christian here now. And I know we have a few others that pop in now and then, and one of them sounds more like an Ex-Christian now when he does. Wishful left btw, and we got to know he was a she, and Mr Wishful joined in with a friend for a while too, and it seems like Mrs and Mr Wishful separated. We haven't heard from them lately. I hope she's okay, because it seemed like she started to doubt the ol' time religion. Thanks, HanSolo. I will keep on the look out. LOL! FTC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Other Christians here? Yup. Several that come and go, like Open_Minded, and now lately Mad Gerbil showing up a bit. BuddyFerris is an active Christian here now. And I know we have a few others that pop in now and then, and one of them sounds more like an Ex-Christian now when he does. Wishful left btw, and we got to know he was a she, and Mr Wishful joined in with a friend for a while too, and it seems like Mrs and Mr Wishful separated. We haven't heard from them lately. I hope she's okay, because it seemed like she started to doubt the ol' time religion. They seem short-lived here... They skate around issues, then promptly "shake the dust off their shoes" and leave. The braver one's that hang out seem to totally *refuse* to answer questions in which the logical answer disagrees with their religion. When I see an xtian, I immediately look at the join date, and compare it to the number of posts. It always seems very low. I have a question for you guys. I have tried to read lots of threads here and in the Lion's Den. Are there *any* threads where the person starts as a xtian, then ends up de-converted? I would love to read them, can you *PIN* them so other newcomers to this site can read them? It would be a good example on how to deconvert someone, plus it would be refreshing to see some examples of common sense triumphing over brainwashing. If you don't wish to pin the deconvert threads, could one of you at the very least PM me the threads with successful deconverging in them? I would find it most entertaining to read. Good luck guys, I will try and help too when I see an opportunity. I would love to have a de-convert or two to paint on the side of my fighterjet hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I have a question for you guys. I have tried to read lots of threads here and in the Lion's Den. Are there *any* threads where the person starts as a xtian, then ends up de-converted? I would love to read them, can you *PIN* them so other newcomers to this site can read them? It would be a good example on how to deconvert someone, plus it would be refreshing to see some examples of common sense triumphing over brainwashing. Yes, actually two that come to mind. Wishful herself being the most recent, then someone else I was talking with a while back, "Freeday". Those are the two that I'd been heavily involved in discussion with that left their beliefs they started with. However, it's really more what they already were leaning towards anyway. As the old saying goes, "A man convinced against his will, remains of same opinion still." They were not opposed to a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Freeday deconverted? I suppose I should'a seen that coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I have a question for you guys. I have tried to read lots of threads here and in the Lion's Den. Are there *any* threads where the person starts as a xtian, then ends up de-converted? I would love to read them, can you *PIN* them so other newcomers to this site can read them? It would be a good example on how to deconvert someone, plus it would be refreshing to see some examples of common sense triumphing over brainwashing. Yes, actually two that come to mind. Wishful herself being the most recent, then someone else I was talking with a while back, "Freeday". Those are the two that I'd been heavily involved in discussion with that left their beliefs they started with. However, it's really more what they already were leaning towards anyway. As the old saying goes, "A man convinced against his will, remains of same opinion still." They were not opposed to a change. Cool! I will have to do a search here under those usernames! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arseniajoaquin Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I am a translator of the Holy Bible from Greek to English. I use and have translated THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT, Fourth Revised Edition, with the permission of the German Bible Society. I have already published the translation - THE WILL BIBLE (NEW TESTAMENT). I also translate the Old Testament from the Septuagint (LXX or Greek Old Testament) and I have already published GENESIS, EXODUS, LEVITICUS (Greek-English) and IESOUS aka JOSHUA (Servant of God). I believe in the accuracy of THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT as this is the product of so many researches, etc. and they are fully supported written in the footnotes. I also believe in the accuracy of the Septuagint as this is the translation made by 70 Israelite elders who are people of God from the Hebrew. To prove the accuracy of these books would take a long discussion and I will not concentrate in proving their accuracy. It is the accuracy of my translation that I would like to prove. I translate the Holy Bible PLAINLY - the Greek word into its corresponding English word taking into consideration both the Greek and English grammar. The Word of God is simple and beautiful. I would like to help people understand the Word of God. Please tell me any verse which are doubtful and we will check it from the Greek that we may understand the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I believe in the accuracy of THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT as this is the product of so many researches, etc. and they are fully supported written in the footnotes. I also believe in the accuracy of the Septuagint as this is the translation made by 70 Israelite elders who are people of God from the Hebrew. To prove the accuracy of these books would take a long discussion and I will not concentrate in proving their accuracy. It is the accuracy of my translation that I would like to prove. I translate the Holy Bible PLAINLY - the Greek word into its corresponding English word taking into consideration both the Greek and English grammar. The Word of God is simple and beautiful. I would like to help people understand the Word of God. Please tell me any verse which are doubtful and we will check it from the Greek that we may understand the message. My understanding was that the New Testament was originally written in Greek, so what's new? The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. It has been translated many times. Considering the many translations we already have of the Bible, why waste your time doing another one? Are all the earlier translations wrong? If so, in what way, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I believe in the accuracy of THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT... That's nice. We don't. How do you reconcile that many concepts in the Greek (Paganised) version of both the OT and the NT contain ideas that were not communicable or even supportable in thought in the Aramaic that good Ol' Josh spoke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 I believe in the accuracy of THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT as this is the product of so many researches, etc. and they are fully supported written in the footnotes. I also believe in the accuracy of the Septuagint as this is the translation made by 70 Israelite elders who are people of God from the Hebrew. To prove the accuracy of these books would take a long discussion and I will not concentrate in proving their accuracy. It is the accuracy of my translation that I would like to prove. I translate the Holy Bible PLAINLY - the Greek word into its corresponding English word taking into consideration both the Greek and English grammar. The Word of God is simple and beautiful. I would like to help people understand the Word of God. Please tell me any verse which are doubtful and we will check it from the Greek that we may understand the message. Okay, lets do it. Please give me the accurate translation of Exodus 6:3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I believe in the accuracy of THE GREEK NEW TESTAMENT as this is the product of so many researches, etc. and they are fully supported written in the footnotes. I also believe in the accuracy of the Septuagint as this is the translation made by 70 Israelite elders who are people of God from the Hebrew. To prove the accuracy of these books would take a long discussion and I will not concentrate in proving their accuracy. It is the accuracy of my translation that I would like to prove. I translate the Holy Bible PLAINLY - the Greek word into its corresponding English word taking into consideration both the Greek and English grammar. The Word of God is simple and beautiful. I would like to help people understand the Word of God. Please tell me any verse which are doubtful and we will check it from the Greek that we may understand the message. Okay, lets do it. Please give me the accurate translation of Exodus 6:3. And, while you're at it, could you please explain, for the benefit of us ignorant heathens, how Exodus 6:3 relates to Genesis 22:14 and why there is no contradiction between these two verses. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 And, while you're at it, could you please explain, for the benefit of us ignorant heathens, how Exodus 6:3 relates to Genesis 22:14 and why there is no contradiction between these two verses. Thank you! Oh Nooooos! .... Thack!!! You gave it away! I wanted to see if she knew how to correctly circumvent the contradiction in the translation before she even knew about it. Somehow the translation is always affected by how they try to avoid the pitfalls, not how it would be literally translated. I wanted to see where she went first. But I forgive you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 And, while you're at it, could you please explain, for the benefit of us ignorant heathens, how Exodus 6:3 relates to Genesis 22:14 and why there is no contradiction between these two verses. Thank you! Oh Nooooos! .... Thack!!! You gave it away! I wanted to see if she knew how to correctly circumvent the contradiction in the translation before she even knew about it. Somehow the translation is always affected by how they try to avoid the pitfalls, not how it would be literally translated. I wanted to see where she went first. But I forgive you. Oops! Sorry about that. As a moderator, you could have my post deleted at any time. That you didn't and instead forgave me is very impressive (but I won't say it was christian of you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 Oops! Sorry about that. As a moderator, you could have my post deleted at any time. That you didn't and instead forgave me is very impressive (but I won't say it was christian of you.) Maybe the true meaning of being "born again" is to be free from religious ideas and bondage? Sorry, got all that serious suddenly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 As a comment, I've met more 'christian' people, in the small-c, the PR of what Christians claim, here than I have anywhere else But please, continue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 Gramps, you're not the only one nor the first to make that observation. Sometimes I think that maybe the original idea of "Jesus" was for the followers to imitate and "become" Jesus-es, and not to believe in a fairy king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Hey, I've never claimed to be 'original'... just perceptive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 I promise you, it wasn't said as critique, but as a confirmation that you indeed are perceptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I know... xxx but I was amplifying the point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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