Xianity Doctrines

[Deva]

When you were still Christians, what doctrines or practices did you always have trouble with? Were there things that you just could never get?

 

Also, what parts of Christianity did you just accept without question?

 

I am interested in this because for me, being raised in the Baptist church, at one time I accepted without question doctrines such as the rapture, the whole tribulation thing, sin, salvation, the soul. The one thing I just did not ever accept was prayer.

 

How has this acceptance or rejection of specific doctrines of Xianity affected you in either cobbling together a tradition of your own, or in going to another tradition such as Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age, Pagan, etc.?

[LithaB]

Most of the homosexual and lesbian people I met were very sweet, so the christian teachings on homosexuality were always hard to swallow. A girl I went to school with was obviously lesbian even in kindergarten, built like a football player and stronger than most of the boys. I found out from a classmate that she had finally killed herself after several attempts, she could never reconcile her sexual preferences with her faith.

 

This girl was never nice to me, although she did like to stare at me when I showered after gym class. Even so, her story is sad beyond words and proof that the christian god is not merciful.

[Robbobrob]

Thinking back, I think it was mostly the idea of absolute good, absolute evil. It was not until I started to learn Taoist thought that it finally clicked that although there may only be one correct action for a particular situation, there is no particular action that is correct for all situations.

 

What works in once case, for one person, may not work for another.

 

Absolutism is what I rail against more than anything else, always have, always will. Absolutely.

[Grandpa Harley]

1) virgin birth

2) the resurrection

3) the divinity of Christ...

 

I know I sound like Father Dougal

[Thurisaz]

When you were still Christians, what doctrines or practices did you always have trouble with? Were there things that you just could never get?

 

Also, what parts of Christianity did you just accept without question?

 

Trouble: Everything supernatural about the jebus cult. I may have been a christian inasmuch as I accepted that jebus was kind of a good role model, but never did I believe for a single moment that he was anything more than just a human with (for his time) unusually progressive views.

 

Accept: Judge not, love your neighbor.

 

That's what occurs to me spontaneously.

[GraphicsGuy]

I believed the the rapture was...possible...but as for every interpretation of Revelation I ever heard? No, never. I thought everyone's ideas were seriously fucked up...so I made up my own. lol

[Thackerie]

[quote name='Thurisaz' date='Aug 29 2007, 11:03 AM' post='302900'

Trouble: Everything supernatural about the jebus cult. I may have been a christian inasmuch as I accepted that jebus was kind of a good role model, but never did I believe for a single moment that he was anything more than just a human with (for his time) unusually progressive views.

 

Accept: Judge not, love your neighbor.

 

That's what occurs to me spontaneously.

 

I'm completely in agreement with Thurisaz on this, so I guess I'm probably different from about 99 percent of the former christians here.

 

Just wanted to comment, though, on that rapture thing: I don't think its standard theology for all Baptists. Growing up, I never heard a word about it from my mother who was raised as a Baptist in Appalachia. In fact, I don't think I had heard of it at all until the Left Behind books came out. I had heard of speaking in tongues - but only as something that crazy "holy rollers" did.

[BlueGiant]

Never could accept the Bible as historical. Allegory, and some wise sayings yes, but never as full history.

[Grandpa Harley]

I'd forgotten 'biblical truth'... it was a bad fairy tale to me...

[garrisonjj]

When you were still Christians, what doctrines or practices did you always have trouble with? Were there things that you just could never get?

 

Also, what parts of Christianity did you just accept without question?

 

I am interested in this because for me, being raised in the Baptist church, at one time I accepted without question doctrines such as the rapture, the whole tribulation thing, sin, salvation, the soul. The one thing I just did not ever accept was prayer.

 

How has this acceptance or rejection of specific doctrines of Xianity affected you in either cobbling together a tradition of your own, or in going to another tradition such as Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age, Pagan, etc.?

 

 

Going to fuckin confession and feeling sorry for my sins over and over for half of my life. Finall I said "fuck it" I can't go on with this charade anymore!

[Deva]

I was wondering if it is much easier to believe in the supernatural elements of Christianity if one hears them first at a very young age and believes them. Naturally, children believe whatever their parents tell them.

 

I am in a never-ending process of self-discovery and trying to figure out why I bought into the whole package lock, stock and barrell, with the exception of prayer. I was raised a fundamentalist Baptist from a very young age and all this rapture stuff was part of what I understood to be true christianity. Of course I knew that other churches had different views, but they were "in error" along with the entire Roman Catholic Church, which wasn't really Christian.

 

The rapture, the anti-Christ and the tribulation were very much a part of Baptist belief long before the Left Behind series.

 

I thought the rapture could happen at any time. I think I was more afraid of it than the doctrine of hell. I could never quite visualize and reconcile fire with darkness in the same place! Then you were also falling somehow. Then there was a lake of fire... it didn't fit together except that it was hot. But the idea of my parents suddenly disappearing was much more plausible. Of course I thought I would be left behind. I could never figure out how people could be sure they were saved. That was another thing I really didn't get. It was "once saved, always saved." Yet, if someone acted immorally or they denied Christ, they were never saved in the first place.

 

As far as homosexualty being evil and immoral, for the church that was a given. Since I did not know any homosexuals when I was young, I accepted this for many years. If I had known any, this would have disturbed me much more. Now since I do know some people who are homosexual it seems incredible to me, this hatred. Part of the misson of the indoctrination was to keep people as ignorant as possible regarding all aspects of sex. Technically, we were told sex was not evil, but in fact it was always spoken about as something to be done only by married people and very restricted, so it was dangerous.

 

Since at one time I believed all these contradictory doctrines, a lot of confusion was created in my mind and it took me many years to throw them out completely.

 

I wonder if people who convert to Christianity later in life believe fewer of these doctrines, especially the supernatural ones.

[GraphicsGuy]

I wonder if people who convert to Christianity later in life believe fewer of these doctrines, especially the supernatural ones.

 

I don't think so, I know people who never set foot in a church until their later years and they actually became more rabid believers than some who grew up in it. I'm actually wondering if the ones who grew up in it are the ones who become more jaded towards it over time. I know that my entire family on my father's side have all become very wary about church in general. All of them grew up in fundamentalist homes and most still believe, but none of them will shut you out if you say you don't believe anymore. Maybe they would if you said, "God's a fucking asshole" to their face, but questioning beliefs and practices has become the norm for them.

[perianwalsh]

1.cover heads when praying(maybe i did accept it for old times-need not new times rule sake)

2.cursing a fig tree

3.only one god ,jeolous god-my mind are more to henotheism at the time-only one way of worship,no other paths acceptable

4.as described by Paul,some people checked back their bible in order to check the teachings are right-

I read later a post by a current jew(and a former christian)thatthe jews value wisdom much.

5.put bible as wisest while others are bullshit or satanic or misunderstood-this is the ultimate doctrine that i cannot accept

pretty much of my church believe this and the person who lead me to church is slowly going to some sort of half fundie

6.called others sinners,satanic

[R. S. Martin]

When you were still Christians, what doctrines or practices did you always have trouble with? Were there things that you just could never get?

 

That Jesus' death somehow benefited human souls and opened heaven's gates so human souls could get into heaven. It simply did not make sense in any way, shape, or form.

 

That I was a sinner. And later, that humans as a species were sinners. Perhaps there were human beings who did evil things for the sake of being evil but as a species we just don't behave that way.

 

Also, what parts of Christianity did you just accept without question?

 

Creation, the virgin birth, the whole bit. That God, the Bible, the church, my parents, and everybody else was right and that I would understand when I got older, like they all said I would. That our way of living was right and ordered by the Bible, etc. But there were always questions. Like all people do, I went through stages of mental development over the course of my life, so that there were things I accepted as a child that I questioned later. And there were things I accepted in my twenties and thirties that I questioned in my forties. And finally, just months before my fiftieth birthday I deconverted. It was a very gradual process.

 

I am interested in this because for me, being raised in the Baptist church, at one time I accepted without question doctrines such as the rapture, the whole tribulation thing, sin, salvation, the soul. The one thing I just did not ever accept was prayer.

 

I was raised Mennonite and the rapture is not part of Mennonite theology. The end of the world happens in a blink of an eye as described in Matt. 24. Revalation is seldom read and is not considered to be a book for Christian edification. I don't remember having much problem with prayer. In our brand of Mennonite we had only silent prayer so it was very personal, just between me and God.

 

How has this acceptance or rejection of specific doctrines of Xianity affected you in either cobbling together a tradition of your own, or in going to another tradition such as Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age, Pagan, etc.?

 

This is why I am sort of hesitant to respond to this thread, because I don't really believe in any god at this point. However, I used to find prayer really helpful. What I do now when I need prayer...well, sometimes in extreme cases I have caught myself praying. It has a way of centering my focus on the problem. In more stable moments, my approach is to talk to myself about the problem, admit my feelings of vulnerability, fear, etc. Talk about possible solutions to the problem, or whatever needs to be aired to help me feel better. It works. Sometimes I feel so full of joy because of a beautiful day that I want to praise so I talk to myself about this good feeling and about the beauties around me. It works, too. I guess one might say I cobbled together my Christian past with newly learned humanitarian values to develop my present life philosophy.

 

I say "humanitarian" as opposed to "humanistic" because I have not read enough humanism to know much about it. However, I have read a lot about humanitarian values; it is what is taught in social work and I did an undergraduate degree in social work. The humanitarian values seem to agree with the humanist values I encounter casually on these forums and elsewhere.

[I Broke Free]

Trouble: Everything supernatural about the jebus cult. I may have been a christian inasmuch as I accepted that jebus was kind of a good role model, but never did I believe for a single moment that he was anything more than just a human with (for his time) unusually progressive views.

 

Accept: Judge not, love your neighbor.

 

That's what occurs to me spontaneously.

 

This is very similar to my take on Christianity. My family only attended church until I was eight years old. I can still remember an incident in Sunday School when the instructor was telling us about some of the biblical miracles and I literally found myself looking around the room for a hidden camera. This was the mid-1960’s and Candid Camera was a very popular show on television. (The premise of the show was to fool gullible people and humiliate them on film.) I just knew Alan Funt was going to break the through door any moment and laugh his ass off at our expense. Please tell me that I am not so old that someone gets this reference.

 

I just never bought the supernatural stuff at all. I eventually when back to church on my own as a teenager in the hope of overcoming my homosexuality, but I still never believed any of it, I just thought they might be able to fix me somehow. Of course now I realize that it would have taken a miracle too.

[R. S. Martin]

I eventually when back to church on my own as a teenager in the hope of overcoming my homosexuality, but I still never believed any of it, I just thought they might be able to fix me somehow. Of course now I realize that it would have taken a miracle too.

 

This is totally off-topic but sir, this is all the evidence I need to know for a fact that homosexuality is not a choice.

[Grandpa Harley]

Well, to use inductive reasoning, I never 'chose' to like girls in ways that most of their parents wouldn't approve of... so why should 'gay' be different to 'straight?

[Luke Wolf]

I accepted every last bit of it.

[Grandpa Harley]

That's impressive!

[Luke Wolf]

That's impressive!

I have a tendacy to take everything literally. And thinking the Bible is the literal word of God, that tends to make you a poster child for ultra-conservatism.

[The Sage Nabooru]

Well, as a kid, you'll believe ANYTHING. You could get the wackiest doctrines on Earth taught to you and you know no better than to buy it. But, the one thing I could never totally accept, even as a wee child, was Man > woman. I was a pretty headstrong little pistol even at that age.

[Grandpa Harley]

"Well, as a kid, you'll believe ANYTHING. "

 

Not true... I'd not bought the 'baby Jesus' story from my parents and when I evinced this aged 5 in the run up to my first nativity play in School, I lost the role of Joseph and NEARLY got thrown out of the school... It was a painful time all around... by Easter I'd learned not to mention that dead people didn't get 'better' (I knew about death by that time, since a lot of my relatives had died before my 5th birthday...)

[L.B.]

Luke Wolf, so did I. At one time, I was as rabid a fundie as there ever was.

 

MUCH later on, while still a scary-ass fundie, the only thing I ever had even a little trouble with was the 'only eight people' on Noah's arkie thing. It just seemed like a bit of a stretch.

[SWIM]

The biggest thing about xtianity that stuck in my craw was the *hell* doctrine. Though I had trouble with a lot of other things, the sheer injustice of it, still today fails to enter the minds of xtians.

 

Some try to *soften* it by saying it is not a place of torment, but a sad place, separated from god. Still... Does NONONE in the xtian world have even an inkling of comprehension as to what *eternity* is? Never ending? Even if one's existence were made but *mildly* bad, eternity? Eternity? Come on, there is NO justice system in the world that would even come close to this injustice. Even being jailed in a posh, club-med like jail, if as you grew old and close to death they *revive* you, or use some super medicine to keep you in there indefinitely, say just a scant 1000 years (NOTHING, a blink of an eye in eternity) would be outrageously unjust!

 

Yet they think god is capable of such extreme injustice...

 

AND they claim to love that which they feel is perfectly willing to do this to *anyone* much less themselves. Kinda like worshiping hitler, or Nero of rome... Of course, those are not as cruel as the xtian god, at least *their* victims eventually died and escaped the injustice, not so for god's hell victims. To me, no matter how mild a xtian defines hell, the injustice is totally intolerable, and renders *any* thinking person incapable of loving a monster.

 

That's my biggest beef of all.

[Deva]

Michael, I understand that hell is now a big problem for you, as it is with myself. Did you at any time accept it as true, or was it always a problem for you even as a Christian?

 

I started this thread because I am interested in the after effects of Xianity on one's life and how and why a subsequent philosophy or religion was adopted.

 

I also tend to take things literally and prefer clear black/white statements. I understand that as an aftereffect of my fundamentalist upbringing, or perhaps the tendency to take things literally (in particular) is an inborn part of my personality.