Panther Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Absolutely What Amanda was saying sounds closer to the scientific method then faith. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Very much so, agreed. Saying you have faith after you have observed the evidence is not faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Yes, I agree. One of the differences are that religion never gets tested (often not allowed to be tested) by peers or by seculars. While science gets tested by people of different religions and beliefs. Yep...and religion cannot be tested ever because it is based upon the supernatural. I'm giggling thinking how they would test that..... LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Yep...and religion cannot be tested ever because it is based upon the supernatural.I'm giggling thinking how they would test that..... LOL! Easy... Just hum. Talk a little in tongues Arabrachabradabromokrabadrabudrabubbahubba. Get anoited with the holy spook and speak under the influence and say "that it is true and proven"... Isn't that proof enough, you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Easy... Just hum. Talk a little in tongues Arabrachabradabromokrabadrabudrabubbahubba. Get anoited with the holy spook and speak under the influence and say "that it is true and proven"... Isn't that proof enough, you say? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> and don't forget the candles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Oh, you can prove it this way too, this is the easy way... I don't know why some chocolate brands taste better than other brands, since I don't know and can't explain it, it must be supernatural. Tada! Supernatural is proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Holy Schamoly... So many of you seem to be butt-heads. If that's all you have, then, even as an Ex-tian (or whatever you call me), you are so wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 and don't forget the candles Not to mention, holy oil and incense, and holy water, just so that there's no excuse for it not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Oh, you can prove it this way too, this is the easy way... I don't know why some chocolate brands taste better than other brands, since I don't know and can't explain it, it must be supernatural. Tada! Supernatural is proven. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> HanSolo, in your opinion... could there be 'some aspect' in all written/taught spiritual matters that seem to prove themselves on an individual basis? Could there be principles, perspectives, and just plain lines of reasoning there, that seem to validate a truth in its ability to be helping cope more effectively with one's life situations? I'm speaking of all of them... Buddhist, Zen, Shamanism, Wiccas, Druids, Pagans, etc. 'If' this can be done in a consistent manner, testing their applications over and over in life, wouldn't one then be able to start putting 'faith' in it? Why would some sort of spirituality be so persistantly prevalent worldwide? (BTW, I don't think you need a book or teacher, per say, to acquire these virtues.) I'm curious if some part of science even considers the possibility that there might be 'something' existing outside of what is tangible and and just properties thereof. Science may even be considered a religion, a means to search for the ultimate truth by means of exploring what we are able to perceive physically. A discourse with someone on this site made me realize that for many it is time to move from studying for truth about our gods and move on to its work, helping our environment and all its inhabitants live better. How many of us worldwide do that? It seems science has done wonders in this field (and detrimental also), was its motivation purely capitalistic? I think there is a deeper part of us that drives us to help this world be better anyway. Does science have a 'rational' explanation for this drive that seeks the betterment of all, if a particualar claim to a 'faith' exists or not? This is not a 'trick' question, I humbly respect your insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Holy Schamoly...So many of you seem to be butt-heads. If that's all you have, then, even as an Ex-tian (or whatever you call me), you are so wrong! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Does science have a 'rational' explanation for this drive that seeks the betterment of all, if a particualar claim to a 'faith' exists or not? Actually, yes. I remember reading about a "spirituality" gene somewhere that made it more likely for some people to be religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 You say that no one needs to follow the path your on and that spirituality can come from other sources. So in that can you please answer the following questions? 1)Can one who DOES NOT believe in God, Jesus, and hates everything the bible stands for and finds the savior ridiculous and says "put another nail in him, I'll do it, gladly!" go to heaven? ....YES or NO? 2)If No, do you believe in eternal torture? YES or NO <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thankful, forgive me... but somehow I get the impression that you do not want to engage in sincere discourse with me... even just in an exchange of ideas for what they are worth to each other... offering a different perspective... that's all. No one has to be wrong or right, good or bad. What you wrote is mostly your ideas and your perspective. OK, I don't have to agree with you to respect your right to believe how you want. I read what you wrote, do I have to agree with you too? I'm glad that everyone doesn't believe like me... really! That would make the world boring. I don't want to change you... or anyone... I've read your posts to other exChristians... you seem like a very nice person. They all seem to like you a lot too. Somehow I get the feeling that you are always on attack mode when it comes to your posts to me. Maybe I'm wrong, yet that is how I feel. I don't see what I, personally, have ever done to you to offend you. I've shared my views with you, and you discredit every single one. OK. Why would you want to hear what I have to say any more? Where can we go from here? It seems to me to be leading no where for both of us. I'll try this again... Answer to above question #1- My belief is that EVERYONE will eventually end up in heaven, no one will receive more than the other... or less. EVERYONE does have to be accountable and responsible for their actions however. BTW, how it seems the Bible has been revealed to you, I don't blame you for feeling that way... I got a different revelation, no one has to be wrong or right, good or bad.... just different. Answer to above question #2- No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I think Amanda would be disowned by most Xtian sects. Hey, Amanda, should start your own and become filthy rich! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I think Amanda would be disowned by most Xtian sects. Hey, Amanda, should start your own and become filthy rich! Oddly enough, the more Christians I talk to, the more I think Universalists and other types of cherry pickers are a growing trend. If the fundies kicked them out, the conservative branches of the religion might die eventually, but the liberal churhes would still be going strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 You had answered those questions, but I was sincerely asking your opinion of my spiritual interpretation and that is what I was looking for. As to the rest, it is your almost condescending tone that you've written here that have caused my patience to become lost; you heap on the compliments and then it's "now [insert name]", "your world", "my world" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I apologize, yet most of what you wrote looked to me as a statement of your personal beliefs... which seemed to be for the most part contradictory to mine... and I am respectfully accepting that as information from which you see things. I never mean to be condescending, NEVER. I apologize if you got that impression, yet I assure you that is never my intentions. Many people say things of how they believe, they define their world through their own personal filters... and think that is how the world is... and I do that, everyone does that... unless something happens that changes these beliefs. So when someone shares with me their beliefs, that is not necessarily how I believe it.... so I comment that is how it is in their world... because it is not like that in mine. I had one of my teachers that did that to me all the time. No disregard to the person is intended. , and saying the whole bible is spiritual yet claiming that Jesus and the cross were real. I don't know, honestly it hits a nerve. Compliments followed with your comments above make some of your posts seem disingenuous, makes them not sincere (to me and others) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My compliments are sincere! Can't I appreciate a characteristic about someone without having to agree with some of their philosophies? If forums were arranged in reverse, we'd all probably find we have a lot more in common than disagree. Why should I disregard an attribute I admire just because I don't agree with them on another subject? Yet, when you debate scientifically, you don't use that stuff and I read those posts and not a bit of anger comes up, I find them very good actually. You debate your point well and get your point across, and even if others don't agree with you, your wording is non-offensive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that is probably because science is more objective and interpretations of the Bible are more subjective... to me. I've mentioned in the science forum arena that I think that when God created all things, science is discovering how he did it. That's why I have no problems with the Big Bang and evolution. We've disagreed on issues there in Biblical regards... it just wasn't important to push the issue. I expressed my opinion, they rejected it, expressed their opinion... and we went on... that's all. Sometimes when I get into more subjective implications of the theory perhaps leading to a spiritual aspect, they ignore me. No problem, they put up with me. KWIM? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I apologize... what does that mean? I've taken your posts regarding the bible personally, whether your posts were directed at me or not, because I still see both of those in the bible as an unbeliever. I see you trying to make something evil good using a funky interpretation method and it bothers me to no end. However, I'm sorry if I have hurt your feelings, I'll try not to but I can't make any promises. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thankful, I am in NO WAY trying to atagonize you... REALLY! I apologize for that unintentional communication. I'm not trying to convert you, not suggesting to you to believe a different way, I think the people on this site are wonderful people... sure I lose it sometimes, that's not yours or their fault... its mine. I thought you asked me for my interpretation of something, when I give it to you... I don't know, it seems you get mad at me. I can't help how I believe no more than you can. I guess when you see me as a defender of what you perceive as a lie... just consider me a poor lost entity.... I guess. An apology is more than I can ask, and it is accepted with sincere appreciation. No promises need to be given. Thankful, does it really matter how I think or how you think or anyone else... as long as its not at the cost of someone else? Like I said, we all probably have more things in common than we disagree... yet I guess for this arena of debating... disagreeing is better. I bet if we met anyone from across the table here at a party, we'd probably have a great time all evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 I think Amanda would be disowned by most Xtian sects. Hey, Amanda, should start your own and become filthy rich! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're right, most religous denominations do not like my philosophies. The closest is probably Unity. My beliefs are based on research, and most who disagree with me won't do a Bible Study with me... which I love to do, and those open enough to do so seem to have respect for my understandings when done. Money is not the motive, if it were... I'd have a more traditional approach. I think beliefs in the Book are not what is important, living life respectfully of all is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 It's a dangerous book and I will debate ruthlessly it's evils, in hopes of preventing someone from going back and/or going to Christianity. It's contents condone some of the most horrible things possible and it's contents also have the potential and have created cults. People are divorced over it, families ruined, all for a myth. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know what you mean. (IKWYM...?) I have a neighbor who is going through a similar situation... divorce... because her husband has now had a 'traditional religous epiphany'! So sad, as they have children too! She's not ready to succomb to all that tyranny immediately, was willing to go to counseling... but that willingness wasn't reciprocated. Nice lady, and we are getting to be good friends. Why don't you come join in the Totally of Topic forum for some fun and games sometime? For the most part it's good clean fun. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll look for it! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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