Huckabee

[Vigile]

The problem is if Huckabee wins, not only does that mean that Americans have a terrible president, but also that the American citizens and society agree with his discriminatory ideals

 

Exactly. All this talk of standing your ground and fighting just smacks of dogmatic patriotism and misguided ideals IMO. I'm obligated to defend an ideal that doesn't exist because I carry a blue passport and was born under the stars and stripes? Fuck that. I'm a citizen of the world, not a country.

 

There are other places to live where xenophobia doesn't reign supreme. There are places in the world where Jesus Christ doesn't even rise to the height of awareness to even be worthy of an epithet. It's shear idiocy to think that a piece of land is worth fighting for. If Americans aren't ready to evolve, I sure as hell ain't gonna waste my blood and tears on 'em.

[Guest RC23]

Huckabee mixes populaist pseudo-socialist ideas with a Christian fascism that is becoming all to prevelant in my beloved country. Most of my friends are moderate, some ultra-right wing, but none of them are voting for this man. I hope he gets the nomination, because it would expose people like him to the moderate masses and prove that there are some real wack-jobs in power throughout the nation.

[Japedo]

Okay, I'm new here so ignore my comments as needed (Yeah, I'm drinking and typing )

 

I WILL vote against Hill/Bill.

 

I might vote against Obama.

 

The republicans are completely worthless this time around, but I'll vote for anything that will slow the tide of socialism.

(Until the atheist hunt starts. Then I'm outta here!)

 

Cheers!

 

Put down the bottle and look around. Government has expanded at alarming rates under the GOP. I can't help but laugh at people saying they will vote for the GOP because they are not socialists. Have you not be paying attention? No child left behind is a soc. program, faith based incentive bs are soc. programs, Medicare is a soc. program on and on and on it goes. The GOP isn't only funding soc. programs they have created them at an alarming rate, in addition TO... Police state Government policy's and agency's.

 

They are putting all Police forces under the banner of the Federal government, Homeland security, the patriot act and much much more. The GOP has destroyed this government more then any "DEM" in office before him.

 

I will not vote for Hillary, I will vote for Obama. I will not vote for most of the republicans Ron paul yes, Mitt Romney only if he's running against Hillary. Obama is anti-establishment and anti-corporate controlling government, that alone is a strong reason to support him!

Wake up and smell the policy's, Your GOP and DNC are different arms on the same body. Shake the hand that's going to hurt you the least.

[MathGeek]

Put down the bottle and look around. Government has expanded at alarming rates under the GOP. I can't help but laugh at people saying they will vote for the GOP because they are not socialists. Have you not be paying attention? No child left behind is a soc. program, faith based incentive bs are soc. programs, Medicare is a soc. program on and on and on it goes. The GOP isn't only funding soc. programs they have created them at an alarming rate, in addition TO... Police state Government policy's and agency's.

 

They are putting all Police forces under the banner of the Federal government, Homeland security, the patriot act and much much more. The GOP has destroyed this government more then any "DEM" in office before him.

 

I will not vote for Hillary, I will vote for Obama. I will not vote for most of the republicans Ron paul yes, Mitt Romney only if he's running against Hillary. Obama is anti-establishment and anti-corporate controlling government, that alone is a strong reason to support him!

Wake up and smell the policy's, Your GOP and DNC are different arms on the same body. Shake the hand that's going to hurt you the least.

 

Sorry, but on the extremely slim chance that Ron Paul is elected, he will have sold his soul to the corporate honchos. More and more people each day may be converting to his Libertarian rhetoric but his stances are so damn divisive, it's a logical conclusion where his campaign will end up at.

 

He wants to abolish the Department of Education and the IRS, which means a shit load of federal workers are out of a job and there goes a possible voting block.

 

He wants to abolish or really trim back Social Security the Medi-establishment, which will mobilize the elderly and the above-mentioned federal workers against him.

 

Furthermore, what torques off the Christian Right more than anything else it is the perceived dangers of inane social issues like legalizing drugs and prostitution, which are threats to their Christian utopia that they so badly want. More extreme rhetoric means more extreme reaction.

 

By nature, I am a pessimist and I could be proven wrong in the next few months, but of all people that won't win...it is Ron Paul.

 

I am not a Ron Paul hater. I just know that too many Americans want to live a self-destructive state of nature.

[Robbobrob]

I fear Huckabee more for his taxation plans than for his religious stance.

 

23% sales tax.

 

That is enough to sink his chances of getting past SuperTuesday.

 

And if the Democrats were smart, they'd put up a safe, easy to vote for candidate for president. This election is theirs, if they would stop trying so hard to make political history.

[Japedo]

By nature, I am a pessimist and I could be proven wrong in the next few months, but of all people that won't win...it is Ron Paul.

 

I am not a Ron Paul hater. I just know that too many Americans want to live a self-destructive state of nature.

 

It is not hateful or being a pessimist to point out facts. You are right, 100% on everything you said. I don't disagree. I was stating more of the republicans on the ticket I would vote for, regardless of their standings in the polls /elections today.

 

I was hoping he was going to at least get a 3rd place standing in this "strong' libertarian leaning state of NH. He didn't even place 4th but 5th.. Which was better then Thompson or Hunter who tied for last place with 1% LOL.

[MathGeek]

Point taken. I didn't consider how Fred Thompson did, not like he had me from hello anyway.

 

Nobody has really riled me up, not even Ron Paul. The only candidate that really has my vote is Bill Richardson, and he finished somewhere in the bottom six or seven. One of the best resumes including foreign policy experience, state executive experience and federal job position experience. One of the more electable candidates we have and nobody's noticed (and he's a minority too). I don't know anymore.

[Grandpa Harley]

This is easily sorted... you'll need some coke, poppers, a seedy motel and a dead hooker...

[Japedo]

I fear Huckabee more for his taxation plans than for his religious stance.

 

23% sales tax.

 

That is enough to sink his chances of getting past SuperTuesday.

 

And if the Democrats were smart, they'd put up a safe, easy to vote for candidate for president. This election is theirs, if they would stop trying so hard to make political history.

 

 

Hear hear Rob!!

 

I have to say, watching Huckabilly on the NH Debates, he did well. I found myself agreeing with some of his policy's and stances (shudder). He will win the buybull belt, I think he'll get the nom we'll see how it goes after the next race. To many Republicans Hate McCain, they see him as not being supportive of their president they so adore and love as he's opposed him on some policy's. He will only be able to win races where the Indy's influence.

 

Another thing about Huckabilly... He came up with the votes spending very little money in NH. He pulled 3rd place in a secular state, that is worrisome. It's not because he's thumping his buybull, it's because of some policy's anti-big government removing FEMA from HLS and placing accountable Cabinet status, cutting the red tape that hinder aid in state disasters. He is very pro 2-ed amendment issues will win him big votes in the party. The party will elect him but the country will reject him. Unless something new happens it's how I see it anyway.

[♦ nivek ♦]

7.62x51mm, repeat at necessary until proper function restored.

 

kFL

[Grandpa Harley]

Was there ever a properly functioning Govt in the US?

[woodsmoke]

Dear gods, it's like I'm reading The Dispossessed all over again. The cries of "Stop egoizing!" are practically audible.

 

It's not often I find myself disagreeing with Piprus and Kevin. Unfortunately, here I must do so, and vehemently.

 

How about all you starry-eyed idealists come down off your patriotic high horses for a moment and try to see things from our perspective? It's all well and good to spout off moral platitudes about it being our "duty" to stay and fight, but the thing about fighting is it always inevitably results in a loser. Maybe you folks have made peace with that possibility and are willing to accept that risk. Good for you. Whether the rest of us reach that same conclusion is our prerogative; and while it's certainly possible to brow-beat us into accepting your point of view, that doesn't make you right.

 

Growing up as a U.S. citizen, I've always been taught I have an inherent, inalienable right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Did all my history and civics teachers over the years simply neglect to include in their lessons that right ends ends at the political borders of the nation? Did the writers of the declaration of independence just suddenly get sloppy and forget to include a patriotism clause? Perhaps Samuel Johnson was only kidding when he said "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel."

 

Lest we forget, the United States of America is populated in vast majority by the descendants of those who had decided their "native land" was no longer suitable to their needs/desires, and/or who didn't wish their children to grow up in the environment they saw around them (be that political, social, cultural, etc). What quirk of history is it that makes them brave pioneers and us today ungrateful, disloyal cowards? Are we not in fact embracing the very nature of what most Americans are so proud to claim as their heritage of individuality by daring to defy convention and entertain such unpopular notions?

 

I don't know Kevin's age, but being old enough to have been drafted in '72 makes Piprus at least 53 years old. I imagine it's pretty damn easy to look out from the perspective of a life more than half over and decide the place you've invested your life in is the best and only "honorable" place to be. For others, however, it's not that simple. Your path is not my path, and no amount of shame, condemnation and "patriotic" sermons is going to change that.

 

No one here is demonizing the "stand and fight" crowd for your convictions. That decision and all others are yours to make as best you see fit, and if it turns you you chose wrong at some point the only ones you'll ultimately be accountable to for that are yourselves. I and others may disagree with you, but I don't see anyone maligning your character or suggesting your intrinsic value as an individual is somehow less because of it. Why is it so difficult to extend us the same courtesy?

[♦ nivek ♦]

woodster,

 

I'm 46 this year.

*

Nobody is forcing you to stay.

*

Millions try to get here every year.

*

I fail to see the line to immigrate into third world spots streaming out of the united States.

*

Do encourage you to go visit, work and live in other places. Wonderful opportunities that will enhance your life.

*

Before you carp about my blatant nationalism and love of this particular place and form of goobermint, feel free to explore what is out there.

*

Plenty of venues for a bright young man to get out and see what is to be seen and enjoyed. Young man like yourself is waiting only for passport and visa to his first stop outside uS to get this travel going.

*

I've done my time, served my communities, employers, made my coin, and lived this far.

*

Will not surrender to the Scudders of this world what is paid for in tangible trades. (Ref: RAH, Revolt in 2100)(read it)

*

Live your life as you see fit. If your direction takes you outside the uS and you find a place where you are comfortable with the culture, language, and society, enjoy.

*

Chose to return to uS after many years between various industries and opportunities in adventures. I won't bother you with why the uS, corrupt and politically fucked up as it is has become my choice for *Home*.

I choose to defend the Bill of Goods, err Rights, and hope that before this nation splits and crashes, we may have something that resembles the Freedom that our Founders sought after and tried to pass along.

*

Beastie may not inherit the nation I had, as I have not had what my Dad, his Dad and bassackwards enjoyed. We seem to have this puritanical streak of selfishness that forbids everything that isn't just 'plain agian tha law'.

Alien and Sedition Act, Whiskey Rebellion...... Harrison Act of 1914, Miller Decision 1934, and every POS legislation that has reduced our Freedom will eventually topple under the weight of Statism.

I hope that copper coated lead isn't the answer, but some boys and men protecting their crew served weapons of the time fired "The Shot heard Round the World".

 

You are incorrect and historically skewed on the subject of rebellion. Not my place to sit here ant pontificate on what makes *Right*.

Will say to preserve what is left, and hopefully pass the Constitution, un-ass wiped by the various "It's just a goddamn piece of paper!" parties, is what I choose to do with the time I have left.

*

 

Dying, woodster, even slowly as I am gives a guy time to focus on whats important, and what things are going to be worked on.

I'm still standing on my soapbox, trying to influence the ballotbox, but I've certainly opened up my cartridge boxes and Appleseeded a new generation of Riflemen.

*

 

>self edited for unecessary roughness towards Goobers

 

>self edited for TMI

 

>self edited to prevent legal action to ExC and owner

 

You've got a life of choices to make, all of you who want to cut and run where you'll be *protected*. Statism and its tide are rising. Remember while trying to escape, alls you have to be is 'next' to be tossed out of the sled to the wolves.

*

 

I'm a mean_old_man and in turn have become hardened in the fight to preserve what is left of Liberty. I'll die knowing what I did was what could be done by an individual who knows little of the word surrender.

 

kL

[MathGeek]

You've got a life of choices to make, all of you who want to cut and run where you'll be *protected*. Statism and its tide are rising. Remember while trying to escape, alls you have to be is 'next' to be tossed out of the sled to the wolves.

*

 

I'm a mean_old_man and in turn have become hardened in the fight to preserve what is left of Liberty. I'll die knowing what I did was what could be done by an individual who knows little of the word surrender.

 

kL

 

"Give me liberty, or give me death!"

[woodsmoke]

Thanks, K. Wasn't sure what to expect in response, but I knew anything coming from you would be well worth the read and full of stuff to think about. Still have yet to disappoint.

 

I should probably apologize some for going off like I did. I know I'm still young and brash (if in my own not incredibly brash way) and have a hell of a lot to learn, and I appreciate the wisdom and information you old fogies occasionally see fit to impart (even if I don't do a very good job of showing it). I know going "elsewhere" isn't going to solve all (or necessarily any) of my problems, which is why I've forasken that particular illusion and now want to go to other places simply for the sake of going.

 

It's just... It can be exasperating sometimes, when it feels like virtually everyone I know ASSumes I'm just trying to run away from my problems, or takes it upon themselves to explain why "Here" is so inherently better than "there" ever could be, and what must be wrong with me that I'd even consider going, or mindlessly launches into the tired old lines about "duty" and "honor" and "remain steadfast" and "stand in defense" and are so full of smug satisfaction and self-righteous condemnation I could just scream and remind them if it weren't for "duty" and "honor" we wouldn't see innocent adolescent girls being murdered by their own fathers and brothers in the Middle East, or Chinese parents leaving female infants on the side of the road to starve to death, or any of the other fucked up, backward crimes people perpetuate in the world in the name of "duty" and "honor."

 

'Course, all that said, I realize it really wasn't fair to include your name with Piprus'* before. Our convictions certainly don't match in some areas, but I can't recall you ever trying in any way to "force" them on to anyone else. You just state them, albeit sometimes forcefully (which is not the same thing, and which I'm equally guilty of), and leave others to decide as they will. Essentially exactly the kind of "patriot" I can get behind.

 

*I mean no offense, P, but your post really did come across with a rather strong accusatory tone.

[Grandpa Harley]

I still think framing him with a hooker would be the best solution...

[Vigile]

Who needs a hooker these days? All you need is a bathroom stall and a corrupt cop.

[Grandpa Harley]

He was corrupt? The hypocrite was cottaging...

[Amethyst]

I predict a revelation about some sexual activity that Huckabee didn't think would be found out. Generally when people run for office, the media digs really, really deep into their lives. He's bound to have some dark secret somewhere.

[Grandpa Harley]

You've got a life of choices to make, all of you who want to cut and run where you'll be *protected*. Statism and its tide are rising. Remember while trying to escape, alls you have to be is 'next' to be tossed out of the sled to the wolves.

*

 

I'm a mean_old_man and in turn have become hardened in the fight to preserve what is left of Liberty. I'll die knowing what I did was what could be done by an individual who knows little of the word surrender.

 

kL

 

"Give me liberty, or give me death!"

 

Being ever a pragmatist, give me liberty, or give me a bloody good job in the administration and I'll continue trying to fix the situation. A martyr is nothing but worm food who's views can be subverted to any damn cause TPTB like.

[Grandpa Harley]

Larry Craig wraps himself in freedom of speech to defend cottaging!

 

Hypocritical

Old

Tart

 

does that defence mean one has no constitutional right to take a shit in peace?

[Vigile]

He was corrupt? The hypocrite was cottaging...

 

Didn't mean to imply Craig's cop was corrupt. I'm just saying that a corrupt cop could be used to create a scandal as you suggested. That is, unless Huck actually went for the bait.

[Grandpa Harley]

Sorry, know the general love of the police on here, I was assuming you thought he was grafting not stinging...

[Aqua Kitty]

Fuckabee! :angry:

 

I realize I'm a mental midget when it comes to politics, but I plan to vote for whichever democratic candidate makes it into the finals.

[Piprus]

Woodsmoke,

*I mean no offense, P, but your post really did come across with a rather strong accusatory tone.

I just read through the posts since my little rant, and what I said underscores the old warning about engaging the brain before putting the mouth (or in this case keyboard fingers) in gear. My post did say some things I now regret saying to the group here, and I apologize. I do think that because someone we consider to be a religious fanatic could be elected is no good reason to abandon your country. There might be other reasons to do so, and if you want to live elsewhere in the world, for the experience of it, you certainly have that right. I do hate to see America's bright younger folks thinking about abandoning the country to the christofascists, though.

 

But as you know, I'm an oldster, I've earned my place here, I've got a lot at stake what with retirement fast approaching, and I hate to see America sliding down the way it's doing. Better to resist, at least for me. I'd like to think most others feel the same way. I don't mean armed revolution, I mean by using the vote (despite growing voter cynicism and apathy), the power of the internet (before we get govt censorship), and using the power of the pen to write to our politicians and give them a piece of our minds.

 

I don't know if it's too late to turn things around. Honestly, I'm pessimistic.

 

Ah well...I'll try not to be such an asshat in the future.