mwc Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Hey mwc, there's a difference between loving a person in the kind of way you want to be married to them and loving them in the kind of way you would defend them because they're human. I don't think the first category exist for me and pretty much everybody belongs in the second category so far as I am concerned. Everyone does have the right to "believe" or "think" what they want. You are correct. But do I have to be happy about it? Do I have to remain married to that person? Do I have to be supportive beyond what I said at the start of this in that they have the "right" to have those thoughts? I don't think so. I don't think "love" should force one to be a drone. "Respect" might be the best I can muster if "love" is no longer in the picture. And "respect" for the rights of others is what I see you describing. Not "love." (although love and respect should go together.) Then there's also the friends category, which is somewhere in between these two. This stuff is really personal and I don't think anyone can write rules that work for every situation, or even for anybody except themselves. Philosophers have tried, but what kindergarten kid consults the philosophers when chosing a "bestest friend"? It is complicated...especially when trying to write it all out and discuss it. It shows how language seems to be lacking the words to describe these things and how each person seems to see it just a little differently (for whatever reason). mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I just clued in...is that an actual skeleton(s) of cojoined twins? Had they lived, it looks like those two would have likely agreed with each other on everything! lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Hey mwc, there's a difference between loving a person in the kind of way you want to be married to them and loving them in the kind of way you would defend them because they're human. I don't think the first category exist for me and pretty much everybody belongs in the second category so far as I am concerned. Then there's also the friends category, which is somewhere in between these two. This stuff is really personal and I don't think anyone can write rules that work for every situation, or even for anybody except themselves. Philosophers have tried, but what kindergarten kid consults the philosophers when chosing a "bestest friend"? This is what I was trying to say earlier. Other cultures have had separate terms for these kinds of emotions. The English language uses descriptive terms instead like "close friendship" vs. "romantic relationship" vs. "familial relationship" to distinguish between them. However different types of attraction can be confused. Take the recent case of two twins separated at birth who got married, were not told about it until recently, and had to get it annulled because they found out they were twins. http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_brit...icle3333777.ece It's no wonder that the very concept of love is messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Everyone does have the right to "believe" or "think" what they want. You are correct. But do I have to be happy about it? Do I have to remain married to that person? Do I have to be supportive beyond what I said at the start of this in that they have the "right" to have those thoughts? I don't think so. I don't think "love" should force one to be a drone. "Respect" might be the best I can muster if "love" is no longer in the picture. And "respect" for the rights of others is what I see you describing. Not "love." (although love and respect should go together.) I think if you do this, you are displaying love of their opinions and beliefs, not necessarily the person, because people grow and change opinions when they get new information (or at least, they should). But that is what the vast majority of people really do. They just won't admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I think if you do this, you are displaying love of their opinions and beliefs, not necessarily the person, because people grow and change opinions when they get new information (or at least, they should). But that is what the vast majority of people really do. They just won't admit it. Maybe I'm confused then but isn't that what a person is? I'm a body. I'm a mind. What more is there to me? So you (not you specifically I don't think ) would love me based on those things. But it's not is it? We also try to add it things like shared experiences and stuff that one person has done for another and so on. That also contributes to "love." But as it turns out from the reading I've been doing...not for everyone it seems. Love isn't so simple and that's the rub. Some folks don't express it the same as others. Some don't seem to count those "shared" experiences and all that the same. It never really "builds" to anything for them. So you're left with what? One person that has one kind of "love" and another with a different kind of "love." Which is the "right" kind? It doesn't matter because if those two people don't figure it out the relationship will probably fall apart even with all that "love." But back to what I started. So you have a body, a shell, with a mind stuffed inside. That mind is the person. How much does that person change before you say "Enough!" and go? Based on some views of "love" it seems they could change 180 degrees and people should stay with them. How very loyal. But do you want to be with a person like that? Being with someone that is the polar opposite of the person you thought you were with? How happy are you in this situation? People that have family members with something like Alzheimer's usually "love" the person but (from the one's I've talked with) it's more the memory of who the person used to be and not who they are now. Its loyalty to that person that lives in their mind that they go through all of the trouble for. Not the "shell" that they care for. The "stranger" that looks like the "loved" one and who drains them emotionally. For someone who says they "love" you for someone to make that kind of "growth" how much thought and consideration did they actually give to you and your feelings? How much did they consider the relationship? Did they simply think "I can do what I want because the other person 'loves' me?" Did they think "I should show restraint because I 'love' the other person?" Or probably better "I should involve the other person in this process so they aren't totally blind-sided by the 'new' me because I 'love' and respect them?" Rarely do I see this come up. I usually see "I went on a journey of self-discovery and the other person was shocked and rejected me when I sprung it on them without warning." Well no kidding. This is basically the same as saying "Look at the new me...love it or leave it." Guess what seems to happen? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'm beginning to think that most people who live in reality have a much broader view of "love" than most people involved in religion...or to be more precise...anyone who has a narrow, selfish viewpoint. mwc, I read your posts and I feel like you have this huge, all-encompassing view of love...in other words, every aspect affects every other aspect (and I don't say that as a slight to anyone else...on the whole we're all talking about the same thing). I totally see and agree with what you say above, BUT there are always the "but what about?" arguments that I can see falling into it. I guess that really goes without saying though, doesn't it? The problem is that subjective experience and ideals enter into the fray. Those rejected ask the rejecters, "My love for you hasn't changed, why has yours?" It's certainly hard to be objective when that is the case. Again, the problem seems to be that most rejection is harsh. If it could be reasonable, rational, and done with mutual understanding of the situation it wouldn't be so bad. Unfortunately the break seems to happen based on emotional outburst and is very sudden most of the time. Anyway, I'm rambling...hopefully making sense still, but I've lost my aim... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 They were True Christians... They were equally yoked and of one mind. That is soooooo wrong! Funny, but just wrong! Naughty girl...your husband needs to spank you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 CDD pants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 OMG...even MORE wrong! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I am TEH wrongness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts