Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth?

[spamandham]

Why do scientists disagree on where life came from?

 

Science doesn't presuppose the answers.

 

If you're dichotemy is science vs. Christianity, Zeus help you.

[Ouroboros]

Don't forget about nuclear fission.  Nobody's ever seen neutrons bombarding atoms.  In fact, no one's ever seen neutrons and atoms.

 

The Hiroshima bomb was clearly just a big firecracker.

 

We say that our world is made of atoms, but what are atoms made of?  What is an atom?  Just a bunch of protons, nuetrons, and electrons?  Pssshh... what are those things made of?  And how do we know these things?  No one's ever seen them.  Atomic theory is incomplete.

 

 

And nobody can see air, so I guess we're breathing fictious gases.

[Ouroboros]

Look Mr. Neil, I don't think you appreciate that there are OPPOSING VIEWS to evolution...even to gravity...I myself am an anti-gravitationalist.  You gravitationalists are always trying to skew reality.  Just cause a couple of apples fell on someone's head you think that means it happens all the time.

 

But I will have you know I DO accept some scientific principles as I am an avid spherical earthist.

I guess you're high up in the clouds then...

 

Some people only dream to fly up in the sky, but Zoe, she's actually there...

[Amanda]

TK421, I will share with you my opinion. I will remain open to comments, as many of you are very knowledgable and I learn all the time from many of you. Additionally, I apologize about not being able to display quotes properly, as I am using a temporary system till after the weekend, and as you all already know... I'm a bit confused. I did try many times, yet it hasn't worked like it usually has for me.

 

"-- Why do the churchES of Christ disagree on what the bible says?"

 

Initial dogma, a strict adherence to a way of life, started as a way to convey to others they were Christians without saying anything. Christians were executed, fed to the lions, so forth. I think separation from each other caused different streams of thought. Further, some came to use 'religion' for capitalist purposes, and some leaders came to use religion to promote their desires. Many protested and more diverse lines of thought perpetrated.

 

"-- If the bible is the “rule book” for living, inspired by God himself, WHY do so many Xians find it impossible to agree on its meaning and content?"

 

Perhaps spirituality is an individual journey and each person is at their own place on this path. I think it happens in God's timing, not mine, yours, or anyone elses.

 

"-- If god’s Holy Spirit is dwelling within EACH believer, then WHY do you all disagree about his revealed word? Why so many conflicting “interpretations”?"

 

It might be that each person is on their own journey, in their unique spot, and the revealing of his word is always evolving, much like science. The more we read and try to understand, the more we learn and think differently. There are many aspects to the Bible, as there are many disciplines to science. It is not an easy book and perhaps is meant to unveil its revelations according to our times. We can ask for the Bible to be less complicated just like we can ask this from science.

 

"-- If god's word is "unchanging" and infallible, then why do Xians find it necessary and even possible to create newer and "better" versions/translations of "god's word"?"

 

Language itself changes, so many versions attempt to make the scriptures more accommodating. I think many of these translations have missed the true meanings, yet that is my opinion. Man is fallible.

 

"-- Do Xians have the ability (free will) to nullify the Holy Spirit’s leading, and thus disagree with what god has written?"

 

I think that anyone has the ability to have a callousness to the Spirit's leading, and for that to even become habit. Perhaps some listen to it, yet call it a different name.

 

"-- If that is so, then what is the point in being a “new creature” made in the image of Christ, (who was obedient even to the point of death)?"

 

Understanding the principles of grace, one can let go of garbage that drains one's emotional energy. Jesus showed that he believed in principles and that it provided him with the best internal energy, even through great torture. The belief in these principles, Jesus demonstrates, could even overcome great tortures of the world.

 

"-- If the bible is inspired by god, and delivered in such a simple fashion that ANY CHILD can read it and understand it, then WHY does the church require men to be educated in seminaries and bible colleges? Why do you need theologians to explain the Greek and Hebrew and Aramaic to you? Why must the text be exegeted and harmonized? Why must bible scholars be able to use hermenuetics? Why so much mental gymnastics IF the bible is SO “easy” to read?"

 

Obviously, the Bible is not easy to read and should not be worshiped! The Bible is not God no more than a menu is the food. Would you eat the menu and think you have been filled? The Bible is not necessary to find a place of peace and comfort. It is just a reference book... 'if' you would like to seek a solution there. If one can discover a way to use it to find solutions for their life and contribute positively to the community, then what is wrong with that? No one is making anyone do it. I see many finding great answers in other places... so?

 

"-- If Xians can’t agree with themselves, then why do they expect the watching world of non-believers to believe anything they have to say?

I say you so-called “followers of Christ” should just go away, and leave the rest of the world alone, until you can clean up your own house, and get your affairs in order."

 

I enjoy an arena where people can exchange ideas. I don't expect anyone to believe what I have to say. The beauty is that no one has to believe anyone! Beliefs don't change reality... unless they impose or hurt someone else, then accountablility for actions must also be a consideration. Ideas can change one's perception of reality, if they find it beneficial to accept it... they can and if not, they don't. Does the new idea help one cope, interrelate, maneuver through life in a more effective manner? Each person is different.

 

Who agrees with anyone on everything? Even happily married couples disagree, often quite passionately. Hopefully they can still respect each other even if their views aren't duplicates. Who wants everyone to be duplicates of them self? That would be boring, wouldn't it?

[chefranden]

Don't forget about nuclear fission.  Nobody's ever seen neutrons bombarding atoms.  In fact, no one's ever seen neutrons and atoms.

 

 

 

Z-contrast scanning transmission electron microscope image (left) of iodine atoms in a carbon nanotube.

 

From Here

[Asimov]

The only thing I have to say is:

 

 

"TK421, why aren't you at your post?"

 

[Checkmate]

Perhaps spirituality is an individual journey and each person is at their own place on this path. I think it happens in God's timing, not mine, yours, or anyone elses.

 

 

It might be that each person is on their own journey, in their unique spot, and the revealing of his word is always evolving, much like science. The more we read and try to understand, the more we learn and think differently. There are many aspects to the Bible, as there are many disciplines to science. It is not an easy book and perhaps is meant to unveil its revelations according to our times. We can ask for the Bible to be less complicated just like we can ask this from science.

 

 

Language itself changes, so many versions attempt to make the scriptures more accommodating. I think many of these translations have missed the true meanings, yet that is my opinion. Man is fallible.

 

Understanding the principles of grace, one can let go of garbage that drains one's emotional energy. Jesus showed that he believed in principles and that it provided him with the best internal energy, even through great torture. The belief in these principles, Jesus demonstrates, could even overcome great tortures of the world.

 

 

Obviously, the Bible is not easy to read and should not be worshiped! The Bible is not God no more than a menu is the food. Would you eat the menu and think you have been filled? The Bible is not necessary to find a place of peace and comfort. It is just a reference book... 'if' you would like to seek a solution there. If one can discover a way to use it to find solutions for their life and contribute positively to the community, then what is wrong with that? No one is making anyone do it. I see many finding great answers in other places... so?

 

 

 

Hello, Amanda

 

I think you're arguing apples, while I'm talking oranges.

 

And by that I mean that I PERCEIVE from reading this post, as well as some of your others, that you are a very SPIRITUAL person. The impression I get from you (MY impression, remember. You are under no obligation to agree with me.) is that you believe that we are ALL on some sort of spiritual journey. And that the ultimate goal of this journey is to attain "heaven". (A place of spiritual perfection.)

 

I also perceive that you liken the bible to be more akin to a road map, or guide book, that directs you on the way. And once having arrived (or at least having discerned the correct path), you may feel free to discard said guide book.

 

(Again, this is the impression I get from you. I could be WAY off base, and if so I apologize.)

 

However, there are a few things wrong with your "individual spiritual journey" model, particularly if you disregard your guide book/map.

 

That guide book says quite specifically that you NEED it for the journey. There will be enemies, traps and false trails that you CANNOT spot without the book.

 

Also, you must be capable of guiding others ACCORDING TO THIS BOOK.

 

To do otherwise will lead to anarchy, dischord and confusion.

 

Which is PRECISELY what the church is suffering. Xians, on this "individual spiritual journey" of yours, are more confused than a feather in a whirlwind! None of you seem to know which way is up.

 

Whether or not you follow the book, or fly by the seat of your pants.

 

As much as you would desire to simply chuck your embarrassing scriptures (thereby excusing your manifold spiritual differences and directions), you cannot.

 

In order to safely and surely arrive at the SAME place, you must follow the SAME book.

 

All roads do NOT lead to "heaven". In order to get there you must be like Christ. And how will you KNOW you're doing that? By the scriptures. Ignore the scriptures ("inspired by god") and you have anarchy.

 

Amanda, I know you may not like MY contentions. So let's just turn to YOUR guide book, (or "menu" as you dubbed it) and see what it says.

 

2 Tim 3:16-17. (You know the words. Sing along with me!)

"ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

 

How can you be equipped if you cast away the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT?

 

Ephesians 6:11-18 The WHOLE armor of God.

 

And again back to 2 Timothy 4 you are exhorted to "Preach the word...for the time will come when they will not endure SOUND DOCTRINE."

 

Well, where IS this sound doctrine? Is it something you can make up on the fly in your spiritual travels? Or is it found securely in that book of suggested readings you call a "menu"?

 

(You know the trouble with "Menu-minded Xians"? It leads to "Buffet-Style Xianity". You pick and choose what you want to eat and disregard the rest as unpallatable! Tsk-tsk.)

 

In 1 Timothy 4 Paul enjoins his pupil to beware of those who depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and DOCTRINES of demons/devils.

 

HOW would Timothy KNOW, how will ANY Xian KNOW what doctrines to avoid and be wary of without a standard to go by? Some charter or RULEBOOK?

 

I'm sorry, Amanda. As Pollyanna as you try to make it sound, there is NO room for "individual spiritual" mavericks as you suggest. Such behavior leads to the very chaotic church that I'm complaining about.

 

You can't escape the necessity and reality of a Xian AND his/her bible. NOR can you continue to pretend that it is subject to interpretation. It CAN'T be. If you can disregard the scriptures, then it is NOT the "word of God", but the fallible word of man.

 

So that brings us back full circle.

 

Why don't Xians agree about the bible? If it's optional, as you suggest, then why bother with it to begin with? Why not simply take some wandering "spiritual" person's word for "the truth"?

 

OK. I'm done for the moment. Hope I didn't ramble and lose anyone in a rabbit trail.

[Checkmate]

The only thing I have to say is:

"TK421, why aren't you at your post?"

 

 

 

Hey! Give me a break! I'm writing as fast as I can between family duties, etc.

 

Besides which I'm having computer problems. I must have a virus or something. It shuts down whenever it pleases, and WON'T restart for an indefinite amount of time.

 

Makes posting and responding problematic.

 

I'm using my wife's laptop right now since she's not on it. My computer is taking a nap. AGAIN.

 

Cheerio.

[Checkmate]

The only thing I have to say is:

"TK421, why aren't you at your post?"

 

 

 

Oh wait....

 

 

I get it! You're referring to my handle from Star Wars!

 

Excuse me. I'm kinda dull today.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Invictus...let me just start with an Ad Hom so I can get it out of the way.  YOU. ARE. A. TARD.

 

And to PROVE my assertion...see below:

Tard statement number one:

Science isn't a "rule book" in the literal or metaphorical sense.  Science is a METHOD.  That's a completely different animal.

Tard statement number two:

Science isn't an "inspired natural entity dwelling inside us all"  SCIENCE IS A METHOD.  nonbelievers DO NOT KNOW everything, as opposed to the dogmatic Christian who arrogantly KNOWS things which he/she could not possibly know.

Tard statement number three:

Science has never and will never be "unchanging and infallible." Science is a self-correcting system.  Through the scientific method of experimentation theories are tested, theories that don't work under experimentation and study are dropped.  Science doesn't claim to know everything.  Science isn't dogmatic.  Science says...this is the data we have accumulated thusfar.  Now SOME individual SCIENTISTS and their groupies are dogmatic...but that is because they are human and it's a human disease NOT a science-thing.  Science itself isn't an entity, a person or an infallible dogma.  It's a METHOD which LEADS to knowledge, not knowledge in and of itself. 

Tard statement number four:

SCIENCE ISN"T THE AUTHOR OF ANYTHING YOU NIT!

 

I skipped two statements because my brains were starting to leak out of my ears...technically i'm now responding to tard statement number  7:

Look evolution HAPPENS.  It's now a theory in the way that gravity is a theory.  There are still some things about gravity we don't understand, however, it doesn't mean things cease to fall down if dropped. GRAVITY is a theory.  But in science, a theory a strong theory is about as close as you can get to a fact.  Since Science has never been so arrogant as to claim all the answers.

 

Evolution has been repeatedly observed.  MUTATION OF VIRUSES ANYONE?  We don't understand everything there is to understand about evolution but it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Let go of the dream little elf.  The best thing you got left is theistic evolution, take it while you still can.  Abiogenesis and Evolution are TWO SEPARATE ISSUES.  Evolution deals with HOW THINGS ARE CHANGING...NOT HOW THE FIRST THINGS GOT HERE.

 

tard statement number 8 and 9:

They are not a dogmatic system of faith.  WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO COMPREHEND.  NO one is required to have faith in science.  All they have to do is read the data and decide for themselves if they agree with it. 

No one has ever been threatened with hell for not agreeing with a scientific theory.

 

Tard statements 10, 11, and 12:

These last three I don't want you to think I was ignoring them...but they dont' really make sense to me.  I don't really get what your point is.  I don't think any of us were "preaching"  we don't care WHAT you believe.  It's obvious you are a ninny who can't be swayed by logic.  And I care because why?  I just want you to toddle off to happy christian land and leave us alone.

 

Zoe, you hit it again! You're my hero (well, one of them on this site, anyway). I love the way you write. Did you say a while back that you're working on a novel, or was that someone else?

[Ouroboros]

Hey!  Give me a break!  I'm writing as fast as I can between family duties, etc.

 

Besides which I'm having computer problems.  I must have a virus or something.  It shuts down whenever it pleases, and WON'T restart for an indefinite amount of time.

 

Makes posting and responding problematic.

 

I'm using my wife's laptop right now since she's not on it.  My computer is taking a nap.  AGAIN.

 

Cheerio.

It's not overheating? I had that problem with my laptop a while, and I got one of these compressed air cans, and blew out all the dust from the fan and inside of the computer. I didn't open it, just blew the air in any opening I could find. And the fan started to go slower, and it stopped shutting off.

 

The CPU has an overheating protection to shut down if it reaches max.

 

Another reason could be hardware problem with your motherboard or harddisk. Those are nasty problems though.

 

Yet another problems is like you said, virus or spyware. One customer I helped once had that problem. It shut down because a spyware insisted on going online and connect to whatever sites and it totally taxed the system, and it hung up. Some of them might make it crash.

[Checkmate]

It's not overheating? I had that problem with my laptop a while, and I got one of these compressed air cans, and blew out all the dust from the fan and inside of the computer. I didn't open it, just blew the air in any opening I could find. And the fan started to go slower, and it stopped shutting off.

 

The CPU has an overheating protection to shut down if it reaches max.

 

Another reason could be hardware problem with your motherboard or harddisk. Those are nasty problems though.

 

Yet another problems is like you said, virus or spyware. One customer I helped once had that problem. It shut down because a spyware insisted on going online and connect to whatever sites and it totally taxed the system, and it hung up. Some of them might make it crash.

 

Yep. I considered the overheating angle, and tried blowing air into the CPU. Some dust did fly, but the trouble persists.

 

The reason I believe it's a virus is that the length of time it works varies. More times than not I get around 35-40 minutes of use. But sometimes I get 12 hrs, then two days, or fours days.

 

I actually got two weeks of uninterupted use, making me believe I had solved the problem by running virus scans and such, when the rat bastich shut down again!

 

I'm loathe to take it in for repairs, because I'm tired of throwing good money after bad. I'm tempted to smash the fragger and just start over. I've saved all my important work to a removable drive, so it's tempting.

 

Oh well.

[Ouroboros]

Yep.  I considered the overheating angle, and tried blowing air into the CPU.  Some dust did fly, but the trouble persists.

 

The reason I believe it's a virus is that the length of time it works varies.  More times than not I get around 35-40 minutes of use.  But sometimes I get 12 hrs, then two days, or fours days.

 

I actually got two weeks of uninterupted use, making me believe I had solved the problem by running virus scans and such, when the rat bastich shut down again!

 

I'm loathe to take it in for repairs, because I'm tired of throwing good money after bad.  I'm tempted to smash the fragger and just start over.  I've saved all my important work to a removable drive, so it's tempting.

 

Oh well.

 

Is it old? Have you done hardware changes to it lately? Installed new/updated programs/drivers?

 

If you have all OS/SW disks and have a good backup, maybe reformat is a good thing...

 

I had one machine 2 years ago that kept on crashing too. It was a faulty memory chip. The stupid thing was that I couldn't figure it out until I scrapped it, and built a new computer and used the memory, and the installation failed at 30%. This was the first time my son actually suggested maybe the memory was the problem, so we tried with one chip only and it worked. After that we tried to install again with the other chip and it failed, so bye bye memory chip! The run time was different too, because unknowingly depending on what I did and how, and which order, things got loaded into memory, the effect would be delayed or hastened.

 

It could be memory problem...

[Checkmate]

Is it old? Have you done hardware changes to it lately? Installed new/updated programs/drivers?

 

If you have all OS/SW disks and have a good backup, maybe reformat is a good thing...

 

I had one machine 2 years ago that kept on crashing too. It was a faulty memory chip. The stupid thing was that I couldn't figure it out until I scrapped it, and built a new computer and used the memory, and the installation failed at 30%. This was the first time my son actually suggested maybe the memory was the problem, so we tried with one chip only and it worked. After that we tried to install again with the other chip and it failed, so bye bye memory chip! The run time was different too, because unknowingly depending on what I did and how, and which order, things got loaded into memory, the effect would be delayed or hastened.

 

It could be memory problem...

 

No...I don't think it can be considered old. I've only had it...two/three years now(?) (IS that considered old?)

 

As for the rest, I haven't a clue. I haven't done any hardware changes, because I'm not THAT computer literate. I have a hard enough time logging onto these forums!

 

Ain't got a clue about the...what did you call it? The "OS/SW disks"? Wouldn't recognize them if they were chewing on my jugular vein. Sorry.

 

The memory chip however...THAT sounds like a possible solution. I've heard of such things fixing problems. I MAY go that route, if I can force myself to part with my money. (I'm stingy, BTW.)

 

I'll keep that in mind, as this frequent shut down shit is BEYOND old. Thanks.

[Ouroboros]

No...I don't think it can be considered old.  I've only had it...two/three years now(?)  (IS that considered old?)

 

As for the rest, I haven't a clue.  I haven't done any hardware changes, because I'm not THAT computer literate.  I have a hard enough time logging onto these forums!

 

Ain't got a clue about the...what did you call it?  The "OS/SW disks"?  Wouldn't recognize them if they were chewing on my jugular vein.  Sorry.

 

The memory chip however...THAT sounds like a possible solution.  I've heard of such things fixing problems.  I MAY go that route, if I can force myself to part with my money.  (I'm stingy, BTW.)

 

I'll keep that in mind, as this frequent shut down shit is BEYOND old.  Thanks.

Not laughing at you... promise... It was your comment about the jugular vein...

 

OS/SW = Operating System / Software disks or CDs.

i.e. Windows installation, Office, and whatever whatnots...

 

Do you have Best Buy around there? They have this new service "the Geek Squad", that can come out and help you with issues. But I don't know what they cost.

 

If you're not used to open a computer box and install/remove components, maybe it's not a good idea that you do it yourself. In most computers the memory can be stuck behind a bunch of stuff, like the oil filter in car engines, always at the worst location...

[Checkmate]

Not laughing at you... promise... It was your comment about the jugular vein...

 

OS/SW = Operating System / Software disks or CDs.

i.e. Windows installation, Office, and whatever whatnots...

 

Do you have Best Buy around there? They have this new service "the Geek Squad", that can come out and help you with issues. But I don't know what they cost.

 

If you're not used to open a computer box and install/remove components, maybe it's not a good idea that you do it yourself. In most computers the memory can be stuck behind a bunch of stuff, like the oil filter in car engines, always at the worst location...

 

Hey, laugh all you want. That's what I'm here for.

 

Nope, we ain't got no Best Buy. But I'll ask around at the stores here. They're bound to have something comparable to ye olde "Geek Squad".

 

Oh and you can bet your bottom dollar that I ain't doing diddley squat to this computer myself. (Except MAYBE tune it up with my sledge hammer. I taught my last TV a real good lesson with it, by gum!)

 

Later.

 

P.S. - I've been up and running for three hours so far! Woo-hoo!

 

Hell! Better hit the "add reply" button quick!

[Checkmate]

OH! And before we get TOO sidetracked about my computer woes, I'm STILL waiting for some replies from more Xians to the original thread topic.

 

WHY DO XIANS DISAGREE ABOUT THE BIBLE?

 

Where the heck are all the Xians to beat me up about this? Only heard from two so far. (And Inviticus doesn't REALLY count as a "reply".)

 

Is this a concession that there is NO good answer? Other than the bible is worthless tripe and THAT is why Xians disagree?

 

If I get no response, then I'll simply make shit up for their position.

[Vixentrox]

They won't agree anyway.....

[Sokudo Ningyou]

Heh! thanks.  I am in fact working on two novels.  Actually one of them is in rough draft form and is "cooling" so to speak.  I did have a lot of edits to make on it...but having never gotten THAT FAR in the novel writing process I was scared I'd make it worse. 

 

So last November I did Nanowrimo...where you write a rough draft in a month.  50,000 words at least.  Well I composed it on the computer...it was abysmal.  The execution, not the idea.  The storyline/plot itself I STILL think is nifty.  As is my mythology surrounding it all.  However the execution even for a rough draft was horrible.  I firmly believe it's because I just can't compose (fiction) as well on the computer.  Inspiration doesn't really hit me unless the writing is more visceral...written by hand, then typed on the computer.  The magic just doesn't flow write unless the rough draft is written in longhand.

 

So now I'm working on the rewrite of that novel...because I can't make it worse...thus building confidence for the rewrite of the other novel sitting on my shelf.  The rewrite is going pretty well, although it's going pretty slow.  My schedule right now isn't clearly defined and so it's easy to procrastinate and not get things done.  Part of my procrastination is writing fanfiction...but at least I'm writing something...and getting in practice etc.  I call the rewrite (which I AM doing longhand) "rough draft vs. 1.2"

 

Anyway I know that was way more than you ever cared to know, had I said:"Yes, I did say I was writing a novel" I'm sure such an answer would have been satisfactory...but you know me...i'm verbose.

 

 

 

Auuughh, Nano. Rough drafts suck. I never write them.

[Sokudo Ningyou]

lol then you don't write.  The rough draft is the first draft.  Every first draft is shit, hemmingway said it so it must be true.

 

If you are hording some magical elixir that gives you a perfect first draft I'm coming over there.

 

 

Really? Funny how so many hours seem to be missing with no excuse. I must be in a coma.

 

I almost never rough draft. Everything I write is written pretty much as I sit down. I have a few vague notions for the future, but I very rarely go back and re-edit anything larger than a sentance or two. If I did rough drafts, I'd lose my creativity and thought process.

[Guest California Believer]

Science is not unchanging or infailable.  It has built in corrections where things can be brought to date as new discoveries are made.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

Absolute rubbish.

[Guest California Believer]

....The reason is because science is progressive, and like all sciences, the science of biochemistry has to start in an infancy stage, just like aerodynamics did with the Wright brothers.  As scientists gain more knowledge, they'll be able to provide more information, and eventually, we won't have to have fairy tales about magic ghosts creating life, because we'll know how life really came to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Even more rubbish.

 

Speaking from ignorance does not make you "heard". I equate your statement to a deer caught in headlights.

 

 

 

 

"I've tripped over yet another platypus"

[Ouroboros]

Yo CB, welcome. I hope you have something more instructive and educating than that!

 

I guess you don't agree that Science is progressive?

[Lunar Shadow]

Yo CB, welcome. I hope you have something more instructive and educating than that!

 

I guess you don't agree that Science is progressive?

 

 

 

Either that or he is another one of those types that believes science is evil and thinks we should all be living in Amish country if so, you first CB

[Cerise]

 

Absolute rubbish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You mean that one sentence response that had very little to do with the post you quoted? Yeah, that was a bit rubbish of you. Do you think you'll do better next time? I certainly hope so.