Guest Acorn Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 But again, just because the followers of the scripture exist does not mean the characters within scripture existed, otherwise that proves Allah is real just because Muslims and even Muhammad exist. At least Muslims have evidence Muhammad was a real person, Christians don't even have that much proof about Jebus. And even most biblical scholars agree that the characters within the bible are not the actual authors of the bible itself, unless you claim Moses wrote about his own death while he was dead. Its not proof that God is real, nor Jesus. Yet, it is history toward the idea that they both are very real. Peter, Paul, Luke, are accreditted as real people. Moses,. maybe that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Teacher I have meditated some on what you have said. But I did not die. I found resonances between what you said and my experiences though. Maybe I should rephrase the question? How about… What capabilities does a person with understanding possess? How do I recognize when I or someone else has understanding? Capabilities. Well. Someone with understanding is capable of many things, depending on what they have understanding about. Possibily, changing the world. Henry Ford had the understanding of the mechanics of the engine of an automobile, Thomas Edison had the understanding of electricity in its raw form, to create the light bulb. Martin Luther had the understanding that their is more to Christianity than the Catholics proclaim and doctrined, changing religion foundations. I would think the knowledge of someones capabilities could not be measured exactly; until that understanding is put in measure in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 There is no historical convention over the existence of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John... no one knows who they were and the first attribution of the names to the gospels is Irenaeus who lived 250 years after the time... Paul is about the same, there being at least two Pauline authors... so citation from history is dicey ground... when a biography commonly starts 'It is believed... ' then we're working from tradition, not actual documented history... So, your pleas of historicity are at best hollow and at worst ignorant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Teacher I have meditated some on what you have said. But I did not die. I found resonances between what you said and my experiences though. Maybe I should rephrase the question? How about… What capabilities does a person with understanding possess? How do I recognize when I or someone else has understanding? Capabilities. Well. Someone with understanding is capable of many things, depending on what they have understanding about. Possibily, changing the world. Henry Ford had the understanding of the mechanics of the engine of an automobile, Thomas Edison had the understanding of electricity in its raw form, to create the light bulb. Martin Luther had the understanding that their is more to Christianity than the Catholics proclaim and doctrined, changing religion foundations. I would think the knowledge of someones capabilities could not be measured exactly; until that understanding is put in measure in society. Martin Luther was pulling stuff out of his arse and we both know it... he was making up as he went along just as much as the RCC... so again, you're talking rubbish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Its not proof that God is real, nor Jesus. Yet, it is history toward the idea that they both are very real. Peter, Paul, Luke, are accreditted as real people. Moses,. maybe that was the case.Expect I don't care about any ideas, I want actual proof. And where's the proof that Peter, Paul, and Luke were real people, and by proof I don't mean forgeries, biased religious writings, and made-up Catholic legend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Capabilities. Well. Someone with understanding is capable of many things, depending on what they have understanding about. Possibily, changing the world. Teacher I do not want to change the world. Imagine that I was simply going to hold the understanding and not apply it. How would I know that I had understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 There is no historical convention over the existence of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John... no one knows who they were and the first attribution of the names to the gospels is Irenaeus who lived 250 years after the time... Paul is about the same, there being at least two Pauline authors... so citation from history is dicey ground... when a biography commonly starts 'It is believed... ' then we're working from tradition, not actual documented history... So, your pleas of historicity are at best hollow and at worst ignorant... What reference's are you using? Its not proof that God is real, nor Jesus. Yet, it is history toward the idea that they both are very real. Peter, Paul, Luke, are accreditted as real people. Moses,. maybe that was the case. Expect I don't care about any ideas, I want actual proof. And where's the proof that Peter, Paul, and Luke were real people, and by proof I don't mean forgeries, biased religious writings, and made-up Catholic legend? Neon Genesis. What do you want? See the bodies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Its not proof that God is real, nor Jesus. Yet, it is history toward the idea that they both are very real. Peter, Paul, Luke, are accreditted as real people. Moses,. maybe that was the case.Expect I don't care about any ideas, I want actual proof. And where's the proof that Peter, Paul, and Luke were real people, and by proof I don't mean forgeries, biased religious writings, and made-up Catholic legend? I have a new catagory for you. Apologist Athiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well, Jesus resurrected and showed his scars to Doubting Thomas and he believed in Jebus. Surely if Jebus can do that much, magically appearing before our eyes would be easy for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well, Jesus resurrected and showed his scars to Doubting Thomas and he believed in Jebus. Surely if Jebus can do that much, magically appearing before our eyes would be easy for him. That just answered your question. Christ showed his scars to Thomas, and he actually was around, saw Him and didnt believe still. So. Maybe, Christ already knows you will cancel a sign out even if He gave one to you. Can you honestly say that if God, Christ etc. spoke, appeared whatever to you; you wouldnt have one split second thought and totally would believe, no matter how much science has to disprove everything He claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Ok so someone wants to live in a world of unprovables. There is no real knowledge or reality outside of the big unknowable. Fine, I care to disagree. Conversation and debate of these issues seems pointless, we are using different languages and perhaps living in different worlds. My view and my understanding works well in the world I wake up in, I suppose your's must be sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Ok so someone wants to live in a world of unprovables. There is no real knowledge or reality outside of the big unknowable. Fine, I care to disagree. Conversation and debate of these issues seems pointless, we are using different languages and perhaps living in different worlds. My view and my understanding works well in the world I wake up in, I suppose your's must be sufficient. Doc you've got style too man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well, Jesus resurrected and showed his scars to Doubting Thomas and he believed in Jebus. Surely if Jebus can do that much, magically appearing before our eyes would be easy for him. That just answered your question. Christ showed his scars to Thomas, and he actually was around, saw Him and didnt believe still. So. Maybe, Christ already knows you will cancel a sign out even if He gave one to you. Can you honestly say that if God, Christ etc. spoke, appeared whatever to you; you wouldnt have one split second thought and totally would believe, no matter how much science has to disprove everything He claims? It didn't answer anything. First... Prove what Thomas saw was Christ. Second... If you honestly believed God could move mountains, God could create universe and all that's in it without so much as a thought then why couldn't god make himself known to all mankind instead of hiding behind myths, legends and secrets? Why is it only a few mythical people get to view him, and all that are required is their lame say-so? What's your god have to hide? Why is it he wants people to believe without proof? Third.... How presumptuous of you Acorn. What about when a lot of us were all solid faithful xtians? Prayed, fasted, and hated ourselves just like god demanded. Then when we felt our faith slipping we begged god for strength and assurance, the silence was deafening. Your hypothetical in the quotes is over reaching far and beyond reason, but like most Xtians that's the case. We'd all have to put our reason and minds to sleep to even begin to believe this bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Acorn Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well, Jesus resurrected and showed his scars to Doubting Thomas and he believed in Jebus. Surely if Jebus can do that much, magically appearing before our eyes would be easy for him. That just answered your question. Christ showed his scars to Thomas, and he actually was around, saw Him and didnt believe still. So. Maybe, Christ already knows you will cancel a sign out even if He gave one to you. Can you honestly say that if God, Christ etc. spoke, appeared whatever to you; you wouldnt have one split second thought and totally would believe, no matter how much science has to disprove everything He claims? It didn't answer anything. First... Prove what Thomas saw was Christ. Second... If you honestly believed God could move mountains, God could create universe and all that's in it without so much as a thought then why couldn't god make himself known to all mankind instead of hiding behind myths, legends and secrets? Why is it only a few mythical people get to view him, and all that are required is their lame say-so? What's your god have to hide? Why is it he wants people to believe without proof? Third.... How presumptuous of you Acorn. What about when a lot of us were all solid faithful xtians? Prayed, fasted, and hated ourselves just like god demanded. Then when we felt our faith slipping we begged god for strength and assurance, the silence was deafening. Your hypothetical in the quotes is over reaching far and beyond reason, but like most Xtians that's the case. We'd all have to put our reason and minds to sleep to even begin to believe this bullshit. Dont feel special. You aint the only one thats been there. The only difference is I choose to believe still. Even unanswered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well, Jesus resurrected and showed his scars to Doubting Thomas and he believed in Jebus. Surely if Jebus can do that much, magically appearing before our eyes would be easy for him. That just answered your question. Christ showed his scars to Thomas, and he actually was around, saw Him and didnt believe still. So. Maybe, Christ already knows you will cancel a sign out even if He gave one to you. Can you honestly say that if God, Christ etc. spoke, appeared whatever to you; you wouldnt have one split second thought and totally would believe, no matter how much science has to disprove everything He claims? BULLCRAP! Thomas gained the title "Doubting" because he required evidence beyond heresay for the Return of Jesus. When Jesus appeared before him and allowed Thomas to physically examine him, Thomas BELIEVED! So, now that you've shown how you're pontificating about something you lack knowledge about, how about you try fucking off? Or, and this may be hard for you, FUCKING LEARN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy-tiger Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Dont feel special. You aint the only one thats been there. The only difference is I choose to believe still. Even unanswered Yes, you choose to believe still... even when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Bah... I've already wasted more effort on you that you deserve. How about you just go forth and fornicate with yourself using a cactus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Time wasted since 2005... and no one has still popped a cap in his sorry ass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 "Are we really that different?" Occam's Razor: YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Dont feel special. You aint the only one thats been there. The only difference is I choose to believe still. Even unanswered Where did I give you the impression that I felt special? You made a lot of assumptions in your halfassed answer to Neon as to why god didn't show himself. I was pointing out what a dumbass statement you made and stated why it was a dumbass statement. You believe even though reason, logic, and evidence says otherwise. Everything is wrong in the world except that voice in your head you named god right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 He's 'Special' ok... in a window licking way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest acorn_7 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well, Jesus resurrected and showed his scars to Doubting Thomas and he believed in Jebus. Surely if Jebus can do that much, magically appearing before our eyes would be easy for him. That just answered your question. Christ showed his scars to Thomas, and he actually was around, saw Him and didnt believe still. So. Maybe, Christ already knows you will cancel a sign out even if He gave one to you. Can you honestly say that if God, Christ etc. spoke, appeared whatever to you; you wouldnt have one split second thought and totally would believe, no matter how much science has to disprove everything He claims? BULLCRAP! Thomas gained the title "Doubting" because he required evidence beyond heresay for the Return of Jesus. When Jesus appeared before him and allowed Thomas to physically examine him, Thomas BELIEVED! So, now that you've shown how you're pontificating about something you lack knowledge about, how about you try fucking off? Or, and this may be hard for you, FUCKING LEARN! Hey. Stand corrected. I meant he was around Him daily, seen His works, and still wouldnt believe until Christ showed His scars. And, in that was saying that we, presently, arent physically seeing Him daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 and now he's 'special' in a soon to be banned way... I think he's just broken the cardinal rule... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest acorn_7 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 and now he's 'special' in a soon to be banned way... I think he's just broken the cardinal rule... Whats that? My new username. I dont know what happened and I was trying to put pic up and it said I couldnt. I couldnt send no message or nothing. I guess by that comment, it was purposeful? Nobody said nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 You are SUCH an attention whore acorn! Having an identity crisis? Why not keep your name that you bitched about in the first place? You stir the shit pot and then you'll cry victim if your banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest acorn_7 Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 So. Moderators. Some enlightment would be nice. Whats up with my profile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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