Two Stories

[Huntsvil]

Once upon a time, the universe banged into being for no apparent reason and with no apparent purpose. Someday it will end with no one left to remember it ever existed. In the mean time we live and die. And thats about it.

The second story begins with a Creator who designs the universe to creat life. The Creator cares for everything He has made, including us. The Creator reachs out to us. When we die we enter into His presence so that this life that we now live is a prelude to a demension of life that never dies.

Now at least one of those are false. And if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death. You have got to grab for all the gusto in life you can, because when life is over, you have seen your last gusto, baby. You only go around once in life, and when you die with the most toys, thats tough, because not only can you not take it with you, you are not going anywhere you can take them to anyway, and there is no you left and no where to go.

But what if the second story is true?

Want more?

[Poonis]

Once upon a time, the universe banged into being for no apparent reason and with no apparent purpose. Someday it will end with no one left to remember it ever existed. In the mean time we live and die. And thats about it.

  The second story begins with a Creator who designs the universe to creat life. The Creator cares for everything He has made, including us. The Creator reachs out to us. When we die we enter into His presence so that this life that we now live is a prelude to a demension of life that never dies.

  Now at least one of those are false. And if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death. You have got to grab for all the gusto in life you can, because when life is over, you have seen your last gusto, baby. You only go around once in life, and when you die with the most toys, thats tough, because not only can you not take it with you, you are not going anywhere you can take them to anyway, and there is no you left and no where to go.

But what if the second story is true?

Want more?

 

Throughout the 20 years I've spent as a fundamentalist christian, I have feared death to the point where I would even listen to my own heartbeat late at night, hoping and praying it would keep going. When I was twelve, I remember being terrified, crying to my mother that I didn't want to die. As an atheist, I have lost this fear of death, as well as the vestigial fear of hell.

 

However, unless you think I am some ignorant atheist, remember this: the same story you have opened with, I was indoctrinated with when I was a christian. I've even used it a decade or more ago, and I heard it from another christian who again heard it long ago as well. Your 'hoping-to-convert-non-christians-to-christianity' yarn will not weave well here.

[Huntsvil]

Throughout the 20 years I've spent as a fundamentalist christian, I have feared death to the point where I would even listen to my own heartbeat late at night, hoping and praying it would keep going. When I was twelve, I remember being terrified, crying to my mother that I didn't want to die. As an atheist, I have lost this fear of death, as well as the vestigial fear of hell.

 

However, unless you think I am some ignorant atheist, remember this: the same story you have opened with, I was indoctrinated with when I was a christian. I've even used it a decade or more ago, and I heard it from another christian who again heard it long ago as well. Your 'hoping-to-convert-non-christians-to-christianity' yarn will not weave well here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is not my intention to convert anyone, but with the free flow of ideas, to find some truth in what all have to say.

As a present "christian', and I have come to not like what is thought of that word, I only want answers to my questions that each person has personally. For to admit you do not need questions answered is to show an arogance far beyond what you might think a "christian" has. We are now moving beyond what we have been taught in the modern view of this world to the post modern view just as our ancesters did when they believed the world was flat. We need a new template to look thru, be very careful you do not throw out a posible truth just because some people hve given you their view. There view might be erroneous.

[DaveL]

Once upon a time, the universe banged into being for no apparent reason and with no apparent purpose. Someday it will end with no one left to remember it ever existed. In the mean time we live and die. And thats about it.

 

Yep, that sounds about right to me. Did you study science at school or university?

Fascinating stuff. Perhaps you should do a bit more reading on the topic before you posting your simplistic explanations. Perhaps you been coached by Christian Defence Forums and you are here to test us.

 

The second story begins with a Creator who designs the universe to creat life. The Creator cares for everything He has made, including us. The Creator reachs out to us. When we die we enter into His presence so that this life that we now live is a prelude to a demension of life that never dies.

 

Your use of the word "story" is correct. Genesis is a wonderful piece of fiction with dubious authorship, meant to give simplistic explanations to simple folk long ago. Are you presuming Genesis is 100% correct. This is a faith based based assumption only. We have heard this argument many times. It hasn't gone down too well here I'm afraid.

 

Now at least one of those are false. And if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death.

 

I beg to differ. Most of us accept what is the established view based upon logic and reason. Yours is based upon Christian faith only. Other religions have explanations for exisitence as well. Try telling a Buddhist or a Hindu that they are wrong. Why is everyone else wrong and you are right. Because you have been indoctrinated that's why.

 

There is no logical basis for Genesis as an explanation for our existence. It's a story, that's all.

 

You have got to grab for all the gusto in life you can, because when life is over, you have seen your last gusto, baby. You only go around once in life, and when you die with the most toys, thats tough, because not only can you not take it with you, you are not going anywhere you can take them to anyway, and there is no you left and no where to go.

 

Hey man, better to live life to the fullest than wait for the Invisible Man in the sky to make it right. Many of us here have been taught similar concepts as Chrisitians, only to grow and learn through lifes experiences these concepts are rubbish.

 

But what if the second story is true?

 

But what if the tooth fairy is real or Santa Claus is real. You'll just have to come up with some really good evidence. That's what science, logic and reasoning are for. Thats how story No.1 came about. We actually try to prove stuff. You just have faith and a single book. So sorry to disappoint you there.

 

Want more?

 

No thanks. Perhaps you should get to know us better before you come blind posting. Alot of us were once like you. If you're here to score points - HA HA. You can run back to your buddies and tell 'em how you stuck it to us.

[white_raven23]

  The second story begins with a Creator who designs the universe to creat life. The Creator cares for everything He has made, including us. The Creator reachs out to us. When we die we enter into His presence so that this life that we now live is a prelude to a demension of life that never dies.

  Now at least one of those are false. And if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death.

 

That's an assumption.

 

How do you get there from here?

 

A. If you don't believe in a grand purpose.....

 

B. You fear death.

 

How do you do that? Go straight from A. to that B.?

 

Go fulfill your own prophesies with people who don't know any better.

 

Go on. Shoo!

[Amethyst]

You are making the mistake of assuming we fear death. IMHO, it's a perfectly natural process in life. Even if the atheist perspective is true and our molecules just become part of the earth, the water, the sun, the moon, the stars, and our consciousness becomes nothing, I don't think that's something to be feared. I think it's poetic, in a way. But maybe it's just me.

[chefranden]

Ok everybody be nice to this guy/gal. We haven't gotten very many Christians of late to eat oops, I mean talk too. I know we have heard this 9,235 times already, but poor Huntsvil doesn't know that. (Though, A guy filled with the spirit should be able to discern that, I would guess)

 

Once upon a time, the universe banged into being for no apparent reason and with no apparent purpose. Someday it will end with no one left to remember it ever existed. In the mean time we live and die. And thats about it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  The second story begins with a Creator who designs the universe to creat life. The Creator cares for everything He has made, including us. The Creator reachs out to us. When we die we enter into His presence so that this life that we now live is a prelude to a demension of life that never dies.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Now at least one of those are false. And if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death. You have got to grab for all the gusto in life you can, because when life is over, you have seen your last gusto, baby. You only go around once in life, and when you die with the most toys, thats tough, because not only can you not take it with you, you are not going anywhere you can take them to anyway, and there is no you left and no where to go.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But what if the second story is true?

Want more?

Hey, I'm a Halton Arp fan myself. I don't hold much with the "big catholic bang" either. However, if there were no one left to remember, so what? Just because you don't like the idea is no reason to postulate story #2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you are talking about Christian God I don't like the guy much. Yes I know I'm prejudice, but I just don't like hanging with mother rapers, baby stabbers, and kitten drowners. I'm not much interested in that, just to get to live longer.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't fear death. I do fear dying. I'm sure it's going to hurt! Since God won't save me from dying, what's the point? Gusto? No thanks that was really crappy beer. I don't want the most toys. Never have. You think I wanna take all this crap with me? I can see you've never had to move! Whould you be upset if you had no where to go? Why?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pascals wager, just makes folks around here grumpy. It's really bad logic, and well, we are all masters of logic or in training to be masters of logic, and bad logic just makes us grumpy, especially the 9,236th time one needs to refute it.

[Amethyst]

I don't fear death. I do fear dying. I'm sure it's going to hurt! Since God won't save me from dying, what's the point? Gusto? No thanks that was really crappy beer. I don't want the most toys. Never have. You think I wanna take all this crap with me? I can see you've never had to move! Whould you be upset if you had no where to go? Why?

 

Honestly, I don't fear dying. I fear a painful death, but the odds are against it. I'll probably live to be an old lady and die in my sleep. And yes, I have had to move more than once. I went through a fire in '03 after my housemate killed himself by setting it. I had to live with my parents for three months while I looked for an affordable apartment. So you see, I've already cheated death once. I'm not afraid of it.

[chefranden]

Honestly, I don't fear dying.  I fear a painful death, but the odds are against it.  I'll probably live to be an old lady and die in my sleep.  And yes, I have had to move more than once.  I went through a fire in '03 after my housemate killed himself by setting it.  I had to live with my parents for three months while I looked for an affordable apartment.  So you see, I've already cheated death once.  I'm not afraid of it.

 

One of my grandmothers died in her sleep. The other went kicking and screaming with pain from cancer. One grandpa died of gangreen. I expect that hurt, though I was too young to know. The other Grandpa, just sort of disappeared over 5 years. Mom said his body died pretty comfortable, I wasn't there. One uncle just dropped dead on his way to the house from the garage, the other one went bad with a bad liver. Actually, I'm kind of vain about the proceedure, I don't like the idea of dying while flopping about pooping my pants and pissing myself. I know I won't have to into the office the next day and get razed for it, but never the less a little dignaty please!

[Mr. Neil]

The thing about death is that I won't be around to think about how much it sucks to be dead. I mean, sure it sucks from the perspective of where I'm at now. I'm alive. I'd like to keep it that way as long as possible. But when the day comes that I die, I simply won't care anymore. There won't be any "me" left to care.

 

In fact, I find it far more frightening to have a finite existence and wasting that existence worshipping something that doesn't exist. That, to me, is far more tragic. If life is finite, then it is also very precious, and we of no faith spend our days living to the fullest, because we realize that it'll be gone one day.

 

Fuzzy warm stories about a magical sky daddy that takes care of us and keeps us out of trouble are nice, but they do precious little in the way of validating such a concept.

[Ouroboros]

If heaven exists, then I should live a life of submission and obedience to guarantee a possible eternal happy life.

 

But if heaven doesn’t exist, I rather spend this life to the fullest, because this life is the only chance I get to do it.

 

Now if Pascal’s wager had any validity, then the religion with best rewards and worst punishment is the religion to chose, which is Islam. There’s no proof for or against that Islam is less “true” than Christianity.

 

I am at peace in the thought of not having a life after death. Actually that thought have made me a more mature and responsible person, and also a person that strives for a more fulfilling life.

 

The notion that heaven must exist, for me to be able to handle life, is not true. Because you can’t be sure heaven exists, or that you actually will go there. You could be wrong about how you interpret the Bible somewhere and missed the whole point, and God will throw you out and not let you enter the pearly gates.

 

So if the game is on, are you sure you know the rules for it yet?

[Huntsvil]

If heaven exists, then I should live a life of submission and obedience to guarantee a possible eternal happy life.

 

But if heaven doesn’t exist, I rather spend this life to the fullest, because this life is the only chance I get to do it.

 

Now if Pascal’s wager had any validity, then the religion with best rewards and worst punishment is the religion to chose, which is Islam. There’s no proof for or against that Islam is less “true” than Christianity.

 

I am at peace in the thought of not having a life after death. Actually that thought have made me a more mature and responsible person, and also a person that strives for a more fulfilling life.

 

The notion that heaven must exist, for me to be able to handle life, is not true.  Because you can’t be sure heaven exists, or that you actually will go there. You could be wrong about how you interpret the Bible somewhere and missed the whole point, and God will throw you out and not let you enter the pearly gates.

 

So if the game is on, are you sure you know the rules for it yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is amazing how much faith you all have in your differing if not similar belief systems. It is easy to see the true free thinkers from those who throw insufferable insults and asumptions at who or what I am. I hope to see more careful consideration for others than just an egotistical recitation of why you are right and I am wrong. Did I say I was right? Can we ever get past the right or wrong arguments and just discuss the reasoning that re have within ourselves. If that sounds familiar ten you might be surprised at what I fully believe instead of what you assume I do...<---said in a light way.

Anyway, thank you for all your insights. I will be here a while to learn and maybe share as I go along

[pitchu]

Huntsvil,

 

Two things you might want to consider if you decide to continue posting here:

 

1) What you may see as discourtesy is often a sharp dismissiveness that's born out of seeing the same questions asked of us and the same territory covered hundreds and hundreds of times. You're dealing with people eager to hear a question or observation that's enticingly new.

 

2) Let's call this point "lemon cake." We tried it and decided it wasn't for us (for whatever our various reasons). Christians come here with their lemon cake. We say, "Get out of here with your rotten lemon cake!" Christians say, "But it's delicious." We say, "We ate lemon cake already, and it's unfit for human consumption." Christians say, "Maybe you just didn't like the people who offered you lemon cake." We say, "In some cases, we didn't like the people, but that has nothing to do with the fact that we gagged on the lemon cake and some of us nearly died from it."

 

Then Christians say, "Well, obviously you weren't eating *real* lemon cake, because those who eat *real* lemon cake never eat any other dessert." And somewhere around this point, many of us go bonkers and get ugly.

 

__________

 

Now, can you put aside for the moment that any subject actually under discussion here has to do with religion and not lemon cake, put yourself in our position, and see how distressing it could be to have this odious lemon cake trotted out for your consumption over and over and over again?

 

If you can imagine this, you'll have a better sense of who you're dealing with, and a better basis for a more meaningful exchange of ideas.

[Checkmate]

Huntsvil,

 

2)  Let's call this point "lemon cake."  We tried it and decided it wasn't for us (for whatever our various reasons).  Christians come here with their lemon cake.  We say, "Get out of here with your rotten lemon cake!"  Christians say, "But it's delicious." We say, "We ate lemon cake already, and it's unfit for human consumption."  Christians say, "Maybe you just didn't like the people who offered you lemon cake."  We say, "In some cases, we didn't like the people, but that has nothing to do with the fact that we gagged on the lemon cake and some of us nearly died from it."

 

Then Christians say, "Well, obviously you weren't eating *real* lemon cake, because those who eat *real* lemon cake never eat any other dessert."  And somewhere around this point, many of us go bonkers and get ugly.

 

__________

 

Now, can you put aside for the moment that any subject actually under discussion here has to do with religion and not lemon cake, put yourself in our position, and see how distressing it could be to have this odious lemon cake trotted out for your consumption over and over and over again? 

 

If you can imagine this, you'll have a better sense of who you're dealing with, and a better basis for a more meaningful exchange of ideas.

 

 

Excellent riposte, Pitchu! I agree wholeheartedly with your analogy and I'm glad you beat me to the punch. I was trying formulate an explanation to Huntsvil, but it wasn't coming out anywhere NEAR as civil as your words. I'm glad I scrapped my reply and let a cooler head prevail.

 

I will now sit back and calmly lurk while the rest of you handle this scallywag!

 

(No offense, Huntsvil. It's just that to me, all Xians who come here are viewed as invaders of my sanity. Attempting to rob me of what it took years to achieve. OK. I'll quit now before I ruin the peaceful setting Pitchu is trying to create.)

[♦ nivek ♦]

I have some bitchin' gun toys, building a bitchin' truck toy, got a handle on some asskicking other explosive toys, had more money_toys at one time than a young cat could use and spent but did anyway, had the jebuzzToyz, had godToyz, and now have a toy in form of a kid...

 

Kid gives me most pleasure, laughs and heartaches all in one toy.. Morso than than the kryystToy and all the religiontoyz..

 

Things I am accumulating now will be for the SonToy as he continues to grow up, and after I am gone, he'll be able to continue living well and educated..

 

Dunno what dying with most toys wins pisses off the fundies for..

 

k, toy collecting son of a bitch, L

[Casey]

Once upon a time, the universe banged into being for no apparent reason and with no apparent purpose. Someday it will end with no one left to remember it ever existed. In the mean time we live and die. And thats about it.

  The second story begins with a Creator who designs the universe to creat life. The Creator cares for everything He has made, including us. The Creator reachs out to us. When we die we enter into His presence so that this life that we now live is a prelude to a demension of life that never dies.

  Now at least one of those are false. And if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death. You have got to grab for all the gusto in life you can, because when life is over, you have seen your last gusto, baby. You only go around once in life, and when you die with the most toys, thats tough, because not only can you not take it with you, you are not going anywhere you can take them to anyway, and there is no you left and no where to go.

But what if the second story is true?

Want more?

 

As to the first part of your mini-sermon, yeah right. I have read Jack Chick tracts before. And there was a time I will admit when I wondered if "there were not something in it". More on that later.

 

By the time I left school I was full of anger and resentment at the catholic educational system and what it had done to me. People told me "Oh that was catholicism not christianity". Funny that, I thought catholicism was the first version of christianity, but no, catholicism was the whore of Babylon.

 

To be saved you had to be a fundamentalist protestant. Tried that, didn't work, so no thank 'ee. If I sound bitter that's because between the different denominations of christianity (all of them by the way condemning each other to hell) and an unanswered prayer I damn well was. Oddly enough I got peace when I finally understood these lyrics (they are in French but I shall translate).

 

Non, rien de rien

Non, je ne regrette rien

Ni le bien qu'on m'a fait, ni le mal

Tout ça m'est bien égal

Non, rien de rien

Non, je ne regrette rien

C'est payé, balayé, oublié

Je me fous du passé

 

No, nothing,

No, I regret nothing,

Neither the good done me nor the bad,

It's all the same to me,

No, nothing,

No, I regret nothing,

It's all paid for, swept away, forgotten,

And I don't give a fuck!

 

When you convert to christianity Jesus allegedly erases all your sins, right? When you walk away from it, as I did, reason erases your sins and your guilt at the same time. Rather a difference wouldn't you say? Another thing, when I was on the fringes of fundamentalist christianity, I couldn't read a Jack Chick tract without feeling a superstitious fear that their message might be true. Now, they make me roar with laughter.

 

 

But what if the second story is true?

 

In that case my friend the answer is the same.

 

I don't give a fuck!

Casey

[white_raven23]

Right on Pitchu!!

 

I'm sick of lemon cake. I'm also sick of the smug way it's always being offered.

 

Huntsvil,

 

The reason I snap dismissed you is that your reasoning just doesn't follow. I'm getting rather tired of that.

 

You made an assumption, that we fear death. That isn't a fair assumption. You are new here, and so your idea of athiests, deists, pagans, and freethinkers in general is not influenced by actually experiencing people like us for yourself.

 

You are wearing someone elses glasses when you look at us. Take em off.

 

Thinking about dying can be frightening. Dying itself? I've heard that our brains get us calm by giving us peaceful hallucinations (proven), so that actually sounds reassuring.

 

What happens after that process? Don't know. I've never died so I have no frame of reference.

 

So the only thing that's frightening is something that happens when we are nowhere CLOSE to the experience of dying itself. So it's not really relevant when you truly consider it.

 

Worrying is useless. You work yourself up over threats that aren't there.

[Ouroboros]

Huntsvil,

 

Two things you might want to consider if you decide to continue posting here:

 

1)  What you may see as discourtesy is often a sharp dismissiveness that's born out of seeing the same questions asked of us and the same territory covered hundreds and hundreds of times.  You're dealing with people eager to hear a question or observation that's enticingly new.

 

2)  Let's call this point "lemon cake."  We tried it and decided it wasn't for us (for whatever our various reasons).  Christians come here with their lemon cake.  We say, "Get out of here with your rotten lemon cake!"  Christians say, "But it's delicious." We say, "We ate lemon cake already, and it's unfit for human consumption."  Christians say, "Maybe you just didn't like the people who offered you lemon cake."  We say, "In some cases, we didn't like the people, but that has nothing to do with the fact that we gagged on the lemon cake and some of us nearly died from it."

 

Then Christians say, "Well, obviously you weren't eating *real* lemon cake, because those who eat *real* lemon cake never eat any other dessert."  And somewhere around this point, many of us go bonkers and get ugly.

 

__________

 

Now, can you put aside for the moment that any subject actually under discussion here has to do with religion and not lemon cake, put yourself in our position, and see how distressing it could be to have this odious lemon cake trotted out for your consumption over and over and over again? 

 

If you can imagine this, you'll have a better sense of who you're dealing with, and a better basis for a more meaningful exchange of ideas.

WOW! NEAT!

 

The lemon cake allegory will stick with me now forever. I love it!!!

[MrSpooky]

Once upon a time, the universe banged into being for no apparent reason and with no apparent purpose. Someday it will end with no one left to remember it ever existed. In the mean time we live and die. And thats about it.

The second story begins with a Creator who designs the universe to creat life. The Creator cares for everything He has made, including us. The Creator reachs out to us. When we die we enter into His presence so that this life that we now live is a prelude to a demension of life that never dies.

Now at least one of those are false. And if you believe the second story is false, then no wonder you fear death. You have got to grab for all the gusto in life you can, because when life is over, you have seen your last gusto, baby. You only go around once in life, and when you die with the most toys, thats tough, because not only can you not take it with you, you are not going anywhere you can take them to anyway, and there is no you left and no where to go.

 

I make it a policy to understand truth from evidence, hard work, and inquiry, NOT basing my beliefs on what I WANT to be true.

 

Reality has a nasty habit of disappointing you.

[Guest Slayer-2004]

Perhaps you have decided to believe in the second case because the one who fears death here is in fact none other then yourself . This is psychologically true : When people fear something they try to get around it as much as they can . Believing in a religion that states that your belief grants you paradise after death is one way to get around it .

 

Actually , you have practically admitted that you fear death by your own logic . Your assumption that anyone who doesnt believe in your religion fears death proves that you would fear death if you didnt have that religion . In fact it is quite the opposite . We who dont believe in an after life are the ones with guts . We face what seems most logical to us and accept it ... some of us fear death and some of us dont . One thing no freethinker does is find belief in something for a cowardly emotional reason. Thats called running away , and we dont do that .

 

In your attempt to preach you have only succeded in learning something about yourself . You fear death , and only trick yourself into thinking that you dont through this method of denial known as religion .

[Flyby Stardancer]

I have some bitchin' gun toys, building a bitchin' truck toy, got a handle on some asskicking other explosive toys, had more money_toys at one time than a young cat could use and spent but did anyway, had the jebuzzToyz, had godToyz, and now have a toy in form of a kid...

 

Kid gives me most pleasure, laughs and heartaches all in one toy..  Morso than than the kryystToy and all the religiontoyz..

 

Things I am accumulating now will be for the SonToy as he continues to grow up, and after I am gone, he'll be able to continue living well and educated..

 

Dunno what dying with most toys wins pisses off the fundies for..

 

k, toy collecting son of a bitch, L

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You have those toys, I have actual toys! Transformer toys, mostly. The Cybertron toys were finally released a few weeks ago, and I've already gotten one of the two I told my parents I HAD to have, plus 4 more! And I bought some Alternators which are really kick-tailgate 'cause while they're rated to be safe for kids 5&+, Due to all the details and such, they're SOOO adult-collector oriented! One of them is Sideswipe, and there's plans in for a Sunstreaker one, which I'll be sooooo over when it comes out. Siders has been missing his twin after so long of toys of Sunny not being made!

[Guest bdp]

I do believe the second story is false. And I don't fear death, and I'm not 'grabbing gusto.' I'm going to die and I'm cool with that.

 

Want more?

 

bdp

[Lunar Shadow]

Yes I would also agree with the 2nd story being false. And you know whats funny I do not find myself grabbing all I can, nor do I fear death anymore (I did when I was an Xtian) I feel in many ways peace that I haven't felt before. I just have kinda accepted how things are and I am fine with that it is a very strange feeling... you know I can honestly say that when it comes down to it I haven felt this peaceful in my life (that I can recall.

[Purple Rhino]

I also feared death as a christian. Which even at that time confused me. As a christian I should have been striving for heaven and the riches that awaited me there. Funny how the majority of people who believe in god and heaven are affraid to get there.

 

Now when I die I die no biggie it's not like I'll know I'm dead.

 

I'll pass on your lemon cake. But if you'd like a big slice of devil's food cake pull up a chair.

 

 

Better Xian's than you have walked away from here empty handed.

 

PR

[Huntsvil]

Huntsvil,

 

Two things you might want to consider if you decide to continue posting here:

 

1)  What you may see as discourtesy is often a sharp dismissiveness that's born out of seeing the same questions asked of us and the same territory covered hundreds and hundreds of times.  You're dealing with people eager to hear a question or observation that's enticingly new.

 

2)  Let's call this point "lemon cake."  We tried it and decided it wasn't for us (for whatever our various reasons).  Christians come here with their lemon cake.  We say, "Get out of here with your rotten lemon cake!"  Christians say, "But it's delicious." We say, "We ate lemon cake already, and it's unfit for human consumption."  Christians say, "Maybe you just didn't like the people who offered you lemon cake."  We say, "In some cases, we didn't like the people, but that has nothing to do with the fact that we gagged on the lemon cake and some of us nearly died from it."

 

Then Christians say, "Well, obviously you weren't eating *real* lemon cake, because those who eat *real* lemon cake never eat any other dessert."  And somewhere around this point, many of us go bonkers and get ugly.

 

__________

 

Now, can you put aside for the moment that any subject actually under discussion here has to do with religion and not lemon cake, put yourself in our position, and see how distressing it could be to have this odious lemon cake trotted out for your consumption over and over and over again? 

 

If you can imagine this, you'll have a better sense of who you're dealing with, and a better basis for a more meaningful exchange of ideas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent reasoning my friend. I had hoped to recieve a well reasoned answer and now I am satisfied. But, I had hoped it would not be the same answer I always get from my friends of this world. I am looking for some new ideas. The story I told is quite old and I apologize that I bored or ruffled a few feathers, such was not my intent at all. I have been reading a new book called "A New Kind of Christian" and that story was just a part of an analagy the auther was getting to that got me thinking. This book is quite disturbing to the traditional christians and might ...no will, be considered heresy to some christians who cant handle the future of the faith. It was my intention to air some of it here if I continued so as to see other points of view. For as you should know, all our opinions are colored by our envirments and life experiences. Please, again I apologize if I offended some.

Peace.