Were You a True Christian

[Mythra]

Some Christians here make the claim that no one who is ever a true christian will leave the faith. Then, they provide the formula on how to become a true christian, and it's the exact same thing that we did. At one time, I would have died before I denied Jesus. I'm pretty sure I was a real christian. Jesus meant more to me than anything. I agonized over people who didn't believe. Can you think you believe and be ready to die for christ, and yet not really believe? Is is that difficult to be saved? What about you guys? Were you real or pretend christians?

 

I think some christians have to believe this, because if they don't, it'll shake up their world too much. I mean, if we were the real deal and left, it means that they have a chance of losing it, too.

[Reach]

I was like you, Mythra. I was a passionate follower of Christ. I expected literal martyrdom to be part of my future.

 

He got it all, my energy, my time, my focus, my money.

 

Whatever I was, I loved Christ with all of my being. He was my life.

 

My desire for the deepest levels of intimacy with God is what motivated me to study; for several years I was "in the Bible" for 40-80 hours a week.

 

How sad to one day discover that I had done nothing but chase an illusion!

[Heimdall]

Sorry, I never believed! I was your worse nightmare, a 3rd generation Deist who laughed at the illogic and the simplistic beliefs of those that followed the Christ Cult. I am so glad that y'all "saw the light" and left that brain-dead cult! - Heimdall

[thomas]

About ten years ago, a big Christian leader (leader of a Swedish organization called “Bedja”) prophesised over me and my wife, that we would become key persons within Danish Christianity.

 

If I wasn’t a real Christian back then, this prophet should have known, that something was wrong. But then again, maybe he was not a real prophet.

[Darkenmoon]

I definitely believe I was a real Christian. I walked the walk, talked the talk, etc. I worried about not seeing those I cared about in heaven. I missioned to my mom and friends who weren't Christian to the point that I'm surprised they still loved me after all that sometimes. I gave time, energy, money, etc to the cause. It ticks me off when people try to say I wasn't saved... as if they can see my heart or whatever. Sheesh! That's an easy cop out to not have to actually deal with why people would actually leave after accepting Christ.

[Checkmate]

I LIKE to believe I was a "true Xian". (Whatever the hell THAT is supposed to mean! Sounds like an oxymoron. Like "True Lies".)

 

Others thought so too. I was called "a mighty man of God", "on fire for the Lord", and a "powerful minister of the Gospel" by family, friends AND several Pastors and assorted church leaders.

 

I was no simple pew sitter. I was an usher, a choir member, the lead evangelist/preacher of our church team that ministered at the local Rescue Mission. I was a bible teacher/preacher IN the church, and finally, just before I quit, I was set in as the third elder of my congregation.

 

I was as devoted to Jesus as the Apostle Paul! I lived, breathed and shit bible verses.

 

I was so Fundamental that people at work (I was in the military) stopped calling me SERGEANT, but instead called me "Reverend" or "Preacher". ("Jesus Freak" and "Bible Thumper" were also names I earned, but those were usually snidely reserved for behind my back!)

 

So, yes. I think it's safe to say that I WAS a "true Xian", before I quit believing.

 

And it chaps my ass when some Xian claims that I did NOT have "faith".

[Guest Priapus]

What Mythra, Thankful, Darkenmoon, & TK421 said pretty well applies to me.

 

I've since asked some evangelical fundamentalists what I might have missed and all are stumped.

 

Secret sin? No.

 

People prayed over you? yep.

 

Invited Jesus into yer heart? yep.

 

Invited the Holy Spirit to search you? yep.

 

Witnessed? yep.

 

Supported missionaries? yep.

 

 

 

It's a mystery, is what it is.

[Mythra]

I was a praise a worship leader. Need the lyrics and chords to "shout to the lord" or "blessed be the lord god almighty"? I can give you them off the top of my head.

 

christians will say, well yes. But it's not what you do that makes you a christian. Did you repent and believe and give your heart and soul to Jesus?

 

Well, the answer is yes, and yes, and yes to those too.

 

I firmly believe that it went away because some of us can only buy off on the make believe for so long before we wake up and smell the coffee.

[Ouroboros]

Good topic Mythra,

 

I was a true Christian, if there is such a thing.

 

When I gave my life to Jesus, I was 7 years old. This is one of the first memories I have.

 

It was springtime, and I was home alone, and it was the first time I didn't go with my parents to Church on a Sunday. I can't remember the reason to why I stayed home, probably something like "I didn't want to". But I had a bad conscious, and I sat in our kitched, and realized I wanted to give my life to Jesus. I got some water and some bread to symbolize the "last supper", and I asked Jesus to come into my life and got saved then and there.

 

At 12 I got my first Bible, I started to read it immediately. I was so touched, I cried, because I had my own Bible. It was the greates gift I could have gotten. In one and a half year, I had read the whole Bible. Around that time I got baptized in the Holy Spirit too, and started to speak in tongues.

 

Over the years, a growing teenager, I lost some of the "first love" and was backsliding a little bit. I didn't pray as much and didn't read the Bible as much. But then there Word of Faith movement came to Sweden, and one of my brothers joined. We started to go there to seminars and conferences, and it gave new life to my faith. So I went to Bible school, and joined the Church too.

 

Over the years I loved Jesus, and promised him to never lose my faith in him. My priorities where that Jesus came first, before my family, so I made many sacrifices on my family's part. We did many bad decisions financially, but I trusted God to help us to get out of the problems.

 

Several times I went on mission trips. I was a worship leader in the first church I belonged to, and also in the cellgroup (prayer group) in the Word of Faith Church. I fasted several times, longest a week. I read the whole Bible several times. I was teaching and preaching to my kids and wife. A couple of times I was in whole day prayer events. I was totally immersed in Jesus and my faith. And much more...

 

So yes, I consider I was as Christian you could ever get.

 

--- edit

 

Btw, when a Christian claim he used to be an Atheist for xx years, and then became Christian, my answer is "You were never a true Atheist".

[Reach]

Btw, when a Christian claim he used to be an Atheist for xx years, and then became Christian, my answer is "You were never a true Atheist".

In the same situation, I never say that aloud but I sure amuse myself by thinking of the same possibility.

[thomas]

Some Christians here make the claim that no one who is ever a true christian will leave the faith.  Then, they provide the formula on how to become a true christian, and it's the exact same thing that we did.  At one time, I would have died before I denied Jesus.  I'm pretty sure I was a real christian.  Jesus meant more to me than anything.  I agonized over people who didn't believe.  Can you think you believe and be ready to die for christ, and yet not really believe?  Is is that difficult to be saved?  What about you guys?  Were you real or pretend christians? 

 

I think some christians have to believe this, because if they don't, it'll shake up their world too much.  I mean, if we were the real deal and left, it means that they have a chance of losing it, too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It seems clear to me, that ExChristians generally have been very commited Christians. It is like searching for a hidden treasure. If there is something wrong with the map, it is the most commited persons, who will be the first to find out.

 

In Christianity, there are a lot of things wrong with the map.

[Checkmate]

It seems clear to me, that ExChristians generally have been very commited Christians. It is like searching for a hidden treasure. If there is something wrong with the map, it is the most commited persons, who will be the first to find out.

 

In Christianity, there are a lot of things wrong with the map.

 

Excellent point! Very nicely stated. Can I use that?

[thomas]

Excellent point!  Very nicely stated.  Can I use that? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Feel free to use it.

[BuddhistCommunist]

I think for anyone one to be a true fighter of christianity, they need to have been an christian. That doesn't mean you cant fight, if you weren't, but it does mean An Exchristian would know more about his enemy. Just like your best spy is from your enemies country. I was not only a christian, but a radical. I thought demons were going to attack the earth in 2006 and only "F.O.G." (the forces of God... my little group) was going to be the only group to stop them. And I posted so many topics on Ki-teachings.com that tried to convince people to come to gods side. And I went to church and feared God and Became so ignorant and intolerable of other peoples beliefs and lifestyles that I became a very low human being.... that now it hurts me to think thats what a good portion of christians are like. Christianity, Islam and other radical faiths are my devil. There are some people in these faiths that aren't radical in some form or another, but they are few. I hate how Christianity corrupts people and takes away our will to think outside of the book. Buddhism and Native american and Pagan, Athiesm, agnostics, most other Eastern faiths, and the Ancient Egyptian Summerian and so-on faiths, are all I really have respect for as religions now.

[Checkmate]

Nice post BuddhistCom, but I must correct one thing you said.

 

You included Atheism and agnosticism in your list of "religious faiths".

 

Neither one are religions. Atheism is "lacking god belief", and an agnostic is suspending belief in god until better information shows up.

 

Possibly an honest mistake on your part, but I thought I'd best point that out to avoid future confusion.

[bob]

I get rather pissed when christians add the word "true" when asking about my former faith. Damn-it, if I was not a christian why would I be claiming that I was?

For every Pentecostal, there is going to be a Baptist that thinks that Pentecostal is not a christian ("true"), and vise-versa. And there will be a member of the Church of Christ who thinks neither the Pentecostal nor the Baptist are christians ("true"), and vise-versa.

As far as I am concerned, if a person believes they are a christian, they are a christian.

[Kryten]

I absolutely know I was a Christian. Had all the scriptures to prove it. Was in an evangelism program to enduce others to be saved. I had the heart and the faith and the works and the relationship. If anyone says otherwise then they are guilty of playing God@judgement and will burn in hell forever and ever, amen.

[Kryten]

Mod(s)-- I really think this thread should be pinned. (And then this post deleted.)

 

This is the type of thing that could have a profound effect on the weak-minded current Christians.

[LloydDobler]

I was a true christian. Raised in the church, studied the new testament furiously, found joy in the suffering for christ, sacrificed personal relationships and posessions for him, gave of myself in time and money, knowing that my works did not save me but were merely done in gratitude for salvation which was given to me freely, but that I did not deserve.

 

Then I watched as prayers went unanswered, and I turned a critical eye to the horror stories in the bible, which suddenly stopped being sugary sweet to me.

 

Then I turned the same critical eye on myself as I did onto Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. "Wow they believe some stupid stuff... Oh man so do I."

 

It all went downhill from there.

[dogmatically_challenged]

I get rather pissed when christians add the word "true" when asking about my former faith.  Damn-it, if I was not a christian why would I be claiming that I was?

For every Pentecostal, there is going to be a Baptist that thinks that Pentecostal is not a christian ("true"), and vise-versa.  And there will be a member of the Church of Christ who thinks neither the Pentecostal nor the Baptist are christians ("true"), and vise-versa. 

As far as I am concerned, if a person believes they are a christian, they are a christian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

For every Pentecostal, there is going to be a Baptist that thinks that Pentecostal is not a christian ("true"), and vise-versa.

I was raised to think that my relatives are family. So when I say family I mean my grandparents, aunts, uncles and my cousins as well. The older generation in my family are Oky Southern baptist . Some of them moved to Idaho, were me and my cousins were born. My parents later decided to become pentecostals and they worshiped TBN charismatic televangelists as well as a kindly pastor at our church.

 

My family argued bitterly about politics and religion many times.

 

My parents were not considered "true" xers. Also I'd like to point out that there are "liberal" fundy Southern Baptists who are "questionable" as well for political reasons. Who is a "true" xer?

 

Who is a "true" xer + Jesus is love + Slight racial bigotry of some "true" xers + Racial tolerance of some "true" xers +In depth reading of the word of gawd cove to cover = apostate.

 

Questions lead to more questions and I never would have been able to read all about how O.T. gawd is so 'consistent' with N.T. gawds--> jehovah and jesus. I never knew about a lota the biblical contradictions but I knew I was had when I found out how loving the O.T. gawd was. Nothing like what my first pastor said.

BTW for a time I made up my own god that was the unkown god. So my transition was easier than many here probably. Can a ten year old be a "true" xer? I think so.

 

 

Nuff said.

[Burry The Rag]

Cool thread, Mythra! Peace! BtR

[shy1680]

Well I was not a "real christian", I thought I was though. Deep down I never could deal with the idea of God punishing good people for not being a Christian or believing in Jesus and then God rewarding those who did others wrong simply because they believed in him. I only stayed a Christian because of fear and uncertainty.

[Mythra]

Good posts, guys. And I'm sure more will weigh in. But for now, the christian reading this has to come to a conclusion.

 

The alleged Jesus supposedly said: "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

 

1. Decide that we are not part of this group that the father has given Jesus. In spite of the fact that our brief testimonies certainly sound like people who were "sold out to the Lord". Can a current christian give any more convincing argument for them being genuine?

 

2. Decide that all of us ex-christians are going to heaven, in spite of the fact that we say we no longer believe. If Jesus says that he shall lose none, then there is nowhere we can go except to heaven.

 

3. Decide that these words are bunk. Absolutely not true. It is possible to be completely christian and then to completely abandon the faith.

 

Are there any other possible conclusions that can be made?

[Guest thanx2m&j]

Good posts, guys.  And I'm sure more will weigh in.  But for now, the christian reading this has to come to a conclusion. 

 

The alleged Jesus supposedly said:  "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

 

1.  Decide that we are not part of this group that the father has given Jesus.  In spite of the fact that our brief testimonies certainly sound like people who were "sold out to the Lord".  Can a current christian give any more convincing argument for them being genuine?

 

2.  Decide that all of us ex-christians are going to heaven, in spite of the fact that we say we no longer believe.  If Jesus says that he shall lose none, then there is nowhere we can go except to heaven.

 

3.  Decide that these words are bunk.  Absolutely not true.  It is possible to be completely christian and then to completely abandon the faith. 

 

Are there any other possible conclusions that can be made?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think the whole “you were never a true Christian” debate is stupid. In high school I only went to church because my dad dragged me there kicking and screaming (but lately he hasn’t been going and neither has my mom, so they have stopped dragging me) I have been told everything imaginable about my faith back then. The prevailing argument among people at my church is this: If I have ever been a Christian that I would have never fallen away. I look at it like I am a Christian and will always be one, and that, for me, it is often Christians who cause me to cease going to church. So basically, as far as some of the people at my church are concerned, I never was a Christian because I pulled a Regina George (the movie Mean girls) in high school and ceased praying and reading my Bible and never did anything. That’s a load of bull as far as I am concerned as even the Bible says that only God knows what is in a man’s heart.

 

It is just a crutch to justify the actions that Christians inflict on each other. In other words, a nice way to shift the blame. As in, you never were a Christian because you did that or you stopping going, and I don’t want to take blame for the fact that I made you feel unwelcome.

[Ouroboros]

The alleged Jesus supposedly said:  "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

Isn't it interesting that Jesus said "that he has given me", not "who has come to me". When you become "saved" you give your life to Jesus and God, God can't give it to Jesus, since it's you who gives it to Jesus. So it's a loophole there.

 

And also, Jesus said he would "raise them up at the last day", one version says "to life" (IIRC), which means that everyone is still dead, even after they were given to Jesus by God.

 

And the next thing is that he doesn't refer to people, but to objects rather. He didn't say "lose none of all THOSE he has given me", it sounds like Jesus is refering to a frog rather than humans.