dogmatically_challenged Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 thanx2m&jIt is just a crutch to justify the actions that Christians inflict on each other. In other words, a nice way to shift the blame. As in, you never were a Christian because you did that or you stopping going, and I don’t want to take blame for the fact that I made you feel unwelcome. I begrudgingly have to say you are a good person. Speaking out against churchianity. Kudo's. I am less paranoid of religionists like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 And the next thing is that he doesn't refer to people, but to objects rather. He didn't say "lose none of all THOSE he has given me", it sounds like Jesus is refering to a frog rather than humans.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I never really noticed that before. Kinda sounds like Jesus is collecting a wheelbarrow full of marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I never really noticed that before. Kinda sounds like Jesus is collecting a wheelbarrow full of marbles. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe jesus needed all the marbles he could get, be'ens he lost some of his. hehe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I never really noticed that before. Kinda sounds like Jesus is collecting a wheelbarrow full of marbles. I guess its a reference to that Christians are only sheep, (ready for slaughter?), and not humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I was a complete fraud according to Mark 16:17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; Nope. they will speak in new tongues; Not really. they will pick up snakes with their hands; Ok, I've held a snake. and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; Never tried. they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." Never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burry The Rag Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Are there any other possible conclusions that can be made? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey Mythra, You’ve got the predestination/freewill issue which has been debated for centuries. Peace! BtR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hey Mythra, You’ve got the predestination/freewill issue which has been debated for centuries. Peace! BtR Hey BTR, Don't try and derail this thread ALREADY with a seperate issue. If you want to discuss whether or not god chooses people/or do they choose him, then begin a NEW thread. Don't try and confuse the issue. "Peace!" TK421 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burry The Rag Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hey TK421, Don't try and derail this thread ALREADY with a seperate issue.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wasn't. It was a direct reply to Mythra's question. "Are there any other possible conclusions that can be made?" Yes. Peace! BtR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 You’ve got the predestination/freewill issue which has been debated for centuries. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So? We're debating now. Which of the three conclusions do you think are valid? Weigh in, Burry. We won't whack ya too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hey TK421, I wasn't. It was a direct reply to Mythra's question. "Are there any other possible conclusions that can be made?" Yes. Peace! BtR <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well then share with us what these other possibilities are bro. Don't hide in the mists of "pulling vague answers out of thine ass" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burry The Rag Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hey Mythra & DC, Weigh in, Burry. We won't whack ya too hard. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, you will! And that’s OK! >grin< So? We're debating now. Which of the three conclusions do you think are valid? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I’m not one to judge individuals, but I will speak in generalities. • Are there people who “play church” yet never believe the truth? I would imagine there are. • Are there people who sincerely think they know the truth but in reality do not trust Christ for their salvation? I would imagine there are. • Are there people who earnestly trust Christ and later come to belief these actions were fruitless and there is no God. I would imagine there are. As I eluded earlier, the predestination/freewill issue has raged for centuries, if I could settle it once and for all, know that I would. Peace! BtR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hey TK421, I wasn't. It was a direct reply to Mythra's question. "Are there any other possible conclusions that can be made?" Yes. Peace! BtR Really? Dropping a vague reference to a doctrinal dilemma of the church was a "direct" reply to Mythra's question? Must not have been, cause I don't get it. Please elucidate. And this time, try not to be cryptic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hey Mythra & DC, Yes, you will! And that’s OK! >grin< I’m not one to judge individuals, but I will speak in generalities. • Are there people who “play church” yet never believe the truth? I would imagine there are. • Are there people who sincerely think they know the truth but in reality do not trust Christ for their salvation? I would imagine there are. • Are there people who earnestly trust Christ and later come to belief these actions were fruitless and there is no God. I would imagine there are. As I eluded earlier, the predestination/freewill issue has raged for centuries, if I could settle it once and for all, know that I would. Peace! BtR Are YOU contending that WE are such people? Again, are YOU one of those Xians who stubbornly deny OUR former professions of faith? If this is your contention then you may now leave our presence, because I don't believe such an insult will be welcome here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burry The Rag Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Really? Dropping a vague reference to a doctrinal dilemma of the church was a "direct" reply to Mythra's question? Must not have been, cause I don't get it. Please elucidate. And this time, try not to be cryptic. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey TK421, There are a significant number of scriptures whish seem to relate to "God choosing us" there are many which seem to point to "Us choosing God." The only logical conclusions I have come to, as yet are: a: Scripture is in contradiction to itself, and thus not the Word of God or b:, We do not understand how seemingly contradictory statements both point to a single truth. Peace! BtR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aexapo Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I doubt that anyone could be a "real" Christian -- since the title infers something real about the belief. I was a genuine believer, a devout follower . . . but, nothing about it was real. I'm glad I found my way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burry The Rag Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Are YOU contending that WE are such people? Again, are YOU one of those Xians who stubbornly deny OUR former professions of faith? If this is your contention then you may now leave our presence, because I don't believe such an insult will be welcome here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey TK421, I always take everyone at their word. If someone states they were a believer, I will never argue the point, how could I? Please excuse my ambiguity. I am not here to offend or demean. Peace! BtR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hey TK421, There are a significant number of scriptures whish seem to relate to "God choosing us" there are many which seem to point to "Us choosing God." The only logical conclusions I have come to, as yet are: a: Scripture is in contradiction to itself, and thus not the Word of God or b:, We do not understand how seemingly contradictory statements both point to a single truth. Peace! BtR Right. And I choose option A. Scripture is NOT the word of god, but of man. Ergo complete BS that I can feel free to ignore. I presume you have chosen option B. So where does that leave us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burry The Rag Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 And I choose option A. Scripture is NOT the word of god, but of man. Ergo complete BS that I can feel free to ignore. I presume you have chosen option B. So where does that leave us? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hey TK421, When you choose "A," I maintain freewill was at play. Agree? Peace! BtR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hey TK421, When you choose "A," I maintain freewill was at play. Agree? Peace! BtR Can you please tell me where you're trying to take me? What is it with this freewill/predestination stuff? I obviously believe in freewill, since I don't believe in god, and therefore no "predestinated to believe or be damned" nonsense. What is the point you're trying to make? Maybe you've confused me with a Fundamentalist Baptist? I don't care about this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Why are we talking about free will and predestination here, BTR? This thread is about "true" Christians. Why not start a new thread? THAT'S what I said! But this yahoo won't take the hint! I'm tempted to ignore any further posts from him if he doesn't shift gears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccasStillSeeking Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 It seems clear to me, that ExChristians generally have been very commited Christians. It is like searching for a hidden treasure. If there is something wrong with the map, it is the most commited persons, who will be the first to find out. In Christianity, there are a lot of things wrong with the map. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, you just nailed my experience with Christianity in three sentences.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I forgot to say something: Welcome to the forum, BeccasStillSeeking! Pleased to meet you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeccasStillSeeking Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I forgot to say something: Welcome to the forum, BeccasStillSeeking! Pleased to meet you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh--yeah--hullo! I'm the same Becca who posted her Testimony last week. This be my Official User Name. And stuff. Anyway. NOTHING sets me off faster than the God-botherer assertion that I was "never a true Christian". Innocent little kid? Loved Jesus with all her heart and shaped her life around his teachings, to the point where she was "turning the other cheek" in schoolyard beat-downs? AND "honoring thy mother and father" when Mommie Dearest was a complete abusive psycho? Not a true Christian? Yeah, riiiiiiight. I know it's just a knee-jerk reaction so that Christians can stay in their mental comfort zone and never doubt, but it is SO callous and insulting. It is one of the reasons why I never speak of my experience with Christians in person. I might smack them or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 I think those who try to find some sort of fabricated synthesis in the old Calvinism versus Arminianism debate (i.e., "the contradiction points to something we don't fully understand in God's plan"), portrays the real definition of a "True Christian." Being a "True Christian" I think is best defined as someone who rationalizes illogically everything that seems to point to their beliefs being ill founded. It is contradictory. Accept it. So to answer the initial question, was I ever a "True Christian"? Even though I had largely the same experiences as many of the others in this thread, being in church as a leader, "won" numerous converts to the church, preached, taught, got a degree in theology, etc, I guess I never was a "True Christian", because I couldn’t continue to ignore reality. I am now just a true human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhistCommunist Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Ever since i left christianity 8 others have followed in my lead. Not because I asked them to, but because they saw the ignorance with their own eyes. The poulation of Americas christians will continue dropping in coming years and eventually New age, Pagan, Eastern, transcedental, unitarian, Atheism and agnosticism will be the majority faiths in 20 years perhaps, and Christianity will be in the minority. Oh and read my new topic to find out why Atheism and Agnosticism are Religions in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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