PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I was confronted by this man on a youtube comment box, who later messaged me and asked if I was the famed David Smith who is challenging the Cult group I was a part of. I am not David Smith although I have been speaking with parents of other children lost to this group and have been asked to meet David Smith. This cult took my life, my sanity and turned normal human problems into the insanity that only a mindf*cking cult can do. He claims that Orthodoxy must be real and true because it has produced thousands of saints. Lets hear his words, I have asked him to show up and he promised he would debate me or speak with me in any private or public forum. As you all know I suffer from multiple psychological disorders that were at the very least exacerbated by this group, I finally get to confront a 'captor' so to speak because he upholds the very reason, the very cause that destroys people like me, people susceptible to leaders like Ephraim. I only expect the very best from everybody in helping me confront this evil that has terrorized me all these years. I am only waiting for him to sign up and get in the lions den. Lets see whats up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Looking forward to it. Hope he has more than "produced a lot saints". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Looking forward to it. Hope he has more than "produced a lot saints". Hey Doc.. I am hoping he has more than "You have psychologicalproblems" therefore you dont count...or whatnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Sorry I had a hard time validating my registration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It is my position that this person has a warpned perception of Orthodoxy due to his mental illness. The Orthodox Church has a 2,000 track record of producing countless thousands of saints. One person's negative experience will not invalidate this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It is my position that this person has a warpned perception of Orthodoxy due to his mental illness. The Orthodox Church has a 2,000 year track record of producing countless thousands of saints. One person's negative experience will not invalidate this fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Id like to set the terms. 1) We talk about Christian Orthodoxy and its validity. 2) We discuss Ephraimites and the monastic cult's effects on people 3) Discuss the validity of the bible and Christianity We do not: A) Ad hom Use my psychological problems or deficiencies to negate my stance, they ARE my stance as to why this cult is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Christ said if you leave him, you never belonged to him. The apostasy (loss of faith) is said to occur in the last days. These people who claim to be Christians, are called backsliders. Luke 8 says that the seed of the word falls on bad soil if it doesn't grow. These people love the world too much so they return to it. Saint Paul said there will come a great falling away in the last days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It is my position that this person has a warpned perception of Orthodoxy due to his mental illness. The Orthodox Church has a 2,000 track record of producing countless thousands of saints. One person's negative experience will not invalidate this fact. Sounds like some shit a Mormon would say. "Mormonism makes better people. One person's negative experience will not invalidate this fact." Remember where you are; we are ex-Christians. We've heard this shit in one form or another many times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 It is my position that this person has a warpned perception of Orthodoxy due to his mental illness. The Orthodox Church has a 2,000 year track record of producing countless thousands of saints. One person's negative experience will not invalidate this fact. Mental illness is subjective, I contend that humanity on the whole has myriad psychological problems. Read the terms, agree to them or propose an alternative as to why my state of mind reflects on Orthodoxy that is acceptable to me and a chosen advocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Christ said if you leave him, you never belonged to him. The apostasy (loss of faith) is said to occur in the last days. These people who claim to be Christians, are called backsliders. Luke 8 says that the seed of the word falls on bad soil if it doesn't grow. These people love the world too much so they return to it. Saint Paul said there will come a great falling away in the last days. You must be terrified then; if others can leave then so can you. You have no guarantee that you will hold out til the end. Life must be a grueling exercise in fear for you. Not such "good news", huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 No, your bio says you were ill before you even found the Orthodox Church. It's not an adhominem when a person points out a fact. An ad hominem is an unwarranted attack on the character of an individual. Your mental health issues plays a very important role in this situation. But we don't have to discuss this if you don't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Extreme monasteries like Elder Ephraim's is not good for people with mental or physical health problems. How do you explain all the other people it has worked for? You might have had a valid argument of ALL the monks there had the same experience as your. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Extreme monasteries like Elder Ephraim's is not good for people with mental or physical health problems. How do you explain all the other people it has worked for? You might have had a valid argument of ALL the monks there had the same experience as your. Why would a loving god allow such a place to exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This discussion is between me and Nikos. His experience is an exception to the general norm. He has committed the error of making his particular experience into a universal truth. Most monks (99.9%) do not have the same negative experience has he has. His argument against the Church might have carried weight if his experience was universal today, and in the Church's 2,000 year history. But it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Christ said if you leave him, you never belonged to him. The apostasy (loss of faith) is said to occur in the last days. These people who claim to be Christians, are called backsliders. Luke 8 says that the seed of the word falls on bad soil if it doesn't grow. These people love the world too much so they return to it. Saint Paul said there will come a great falling away in the last days. I didnt leave Orthodoxy because I loved the world, I was ready and willing to become a monk and denounce the world. When I realized the bible was a pack of lies and that Orthodoxy was a closed system I chose to leave it. I tried to reconcile my faith through believing in the bible and other forms of Christianity for years afterwards, I came to believe that it was a made up religion based on true fact I came to this decision, I didnt just leave because I couldnt "live in sin", so your eror is already obvious, Jesus' words did not apply to me although you may want them to. I lived at St Anthony's fasting harshly, praying the Jesus prayer 24/7 going to church 10+ hours a day, you know the drill. Your argument falls by the wayside as you attempt to know my motives and claim that because Jesus said those who fall away were never believers in the first place, tell me, why did I believe in Jesus for 10 years and lose my family, my business, my health and my psychological well being to Christianity if I wasnt devoted? You are making an assumption that lies in YOUR belief system. It is entirely untrue and I can back it up by facts. Its quite easy to say "If you fell away you were never a believer" but its another thing to prove this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 No, your bio says you were ill before you even found the Orthodox Church. It's not an adhominem when a person points out a fact. An ad hominem is an unwarranted attack on the character of an individual. Your mental health issues plays a very important role in this situation. But we don't have to discuss this if you don't want to. It is Orthodoxy's contention that EVERYBODY is mentally deranged without Christ. So it is in my favor to actually stay with this train of thought but I think it diverts from the actual argument. Answer this. In the view of Orthodoxy is or is not every human being without the Orthodox baptism insane and full of the devil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Ok, lets stick to one thing at a time. You claimed the Bible is a pack of lies. What led you to this concludion? Can you give me an examplem of one lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Extreme monasteries like Elder Ephraim's is not good for people with mental or physical health problems. How do you explain all the other people it has worked for? You might have had a valid argument of ALL the monks there had the same experience as your. Once again you are speaking subjectively, we are speaking of a place where I watched monks leave as I was there....and I am in contact with parents of novices and monks who live there who claim their children are becoming psychotic zombies. Lets try to get to a startiing point instead of these splintered posts, lets start with a foundation for the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Orthodoxy does not teach we are insane before baptism. It teaches we have a demon in the heart. No one can deny this. Our proclivity toward sin and the passions is proof of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Start with your first question to me, I am going to ask for a moderator for this one if you keep windmilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Captain Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 This is between you and P, but if you will allow me one comment. The motivations for leaving that you have described were not mine, nor were they many other apostates. With a sound mind, one can hardly help but change in the face of new knowledge. To do anything less would be dishonest. So please, if you wish to have a clue look at why we say we left rather than decide for yourself why. I say "for yourself" when perhaps it would be more accurate to say that a book and a priest decided for you. But that is beside the point, have a good debate. BTW if the two of you would like a more structured exclusive debate the coliseum would be the better place, Lions Den is pretty much anything goes. A-man or Hans head that forum I believe, and could move the thread and set some ground rules if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Doc, peanutting is allowed. I only ask that this man ask a first question and not windmill about. Let him read what is posted thus far and make a first question. You are free to post, I told him this would be public unless he asked for a private debate with a mod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 And Apologist, My name is Nikos, not "this person" I ask that you respect me as a human being, not one to be thrown in the pit. What is your name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apologist325 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 And Apologist, My name is Nikos, not "this person" I ask that you respect me as a human being, not one to be thrown in the pit. What is your name? Just call me Apologist. You asserted the Bible was a pacxk of lies. Can you give me an example of one lie? Also, it would be easier if they have a chat room here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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