nightflight Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Elder Ephraim prayed, and you were the miracle worker. YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Oh...telling people with mental issues that demons and other invisible beings actually exist...yeah...that's REALLY healthy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 And God is also in the human heart. He inspires people to good actions. The battle is in the mind between good and evil. So when people do good its God, when they do bad its Satan. Umm.....Then why hold any body accountable?? Why throw anybody into hell?? You just negated the work of every good person, every humanitarian, and gave it all to god, you just told us that any good act is from god. So, to be logical, then every bad deed can be awarded to satan, so only satan should be punished and thrown into hell, we obviously have nothing to do with anything. Nice side step. Fred Astaire would be proud. This is the absolute contradictory type of nonsense that causes people to HATE or at least dismiss the things you and Orthodoxy teach. This is absolutely false though, Orthodox wisdom teaches flat out and universally that no unbaptized man, woman or child can do any good whatsoever and that every good they do is satanic and leading people away form god by teaching them that there is good without god. This is one of the things that fucked me up so much and this is the point I will hang on. You and Orthodoxy taught me that even the good I did was evil because it didnt point to christ, so you are lying, you are flat out lying you KNOW that you believe that even the best of the best humanitarians are in hell right now because they taught that mankind could be good without the Orthodox baptism and without christ, you KNOW you believe that they actually led people away from god and Orthodoxy because THAT is the true teaching of Orthodoxy. Do not come here and use sophistry like that it undermines all the suffering Christianity has placed on the world and me personally, I didnt sleep for years because I wasnt baptized and nothign I did was good enough, it was all filthy rags right ??? Even the good I did, if I didnt accredit it to the Orthodox Jesus was evil, and you KNOW thats what I was taught. Put anybody here through an Orthodox crash course and they will realize why I am so fucked up and why I am so paranoid and defensive,not because I am evil but because I have a twisted up mind from believing this shit...I dont set out to do any harm but I cant even think straight. I am learning to take responsibility for myself after years of giving up all responsibility to "Christ", that problem alone has nearly destroyed me. when you give up your entire mind and purpose to someone else or some group for years you lose yourself, how will I get this back??? Will Jesus FINALLY do somehting for me?? What exactly are you promising to do?? what are you saying jesus will do for me?? for anybody here?? they all deserve it Its like in the Goonies where Mouth finds the wishing well and starts stealing the coins and hes told to put it back because they are other peoples wishes, other peoples dreams and he says "you know what this one right here, this one..its MY WISH, MY DREAM, and it didnt come true, so Im taking it back, I am taking them all back" Where are our wishes?? Where are our dreams?? They are all shattered and gone and we sit around here and talk to each other, trying to ease the pain, yeah we fight and we disagree but we share a common bond, THE GOD THAT FAILED. At least we are honest with eachother, at least we show our true colors.....look how phony you are...not one lick of love until the end when you bow out. You care about me?? Or you care about proving Orthodoxy?? We all know the answer to that one. Thanks for stopping by, at least you accepted the challenge unlike VenomFangX and GreekOrthodoxy on Youtube, they both refused, at least you gave a couple hours of your time, albeit to prove how mentally ill, evil and wrong I was..thanks for your time. Amazing Grace hah? How sweet it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Elder Ephraim prayed, and you were the miracle worker. ARE YOU SERIOUS??? I do the work and Ephraim gets the glory?? WTF??? Another negation of my existence as a human. Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 1 Hour 46 minutes from his first post to his last post, I know, its a tough crowd but have some balls man. I guess the Youtube debate is more important than saving my soul, although God sent him, personally on this mission. Anybody want to become Orthodox?? End your Apostasy?? Im gonna watch some Star Trek now. I have faith in the crew of the Starship Enterprise, my new favorite religion. At least it is Logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kcdad Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It is my position that this person has a warpned perception of Orthodoxy due to his mental illness. The Orthodox Church has a 2,000 track record of producing countless thousands of saints. One person's negative experience will not invalidate this fact. What do you mean by Orthodoxy? Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 It is my position that this person has a warpned perception of Orthodoxy due to his mental illness. Or... his mental illness was caused by the Orthodoxy. It can go both ways. The Orthodox Church has a 2,000 track record of producing countless thousands of saints. One person's negative experience will not invalidate this fact. I can make my own saints. I could find 2,000 people, make them saints, and then... voilá, I got a validated religion! Awesome! Christ said if you leave him, you never belonged to him. The apostasy (loss of faith) is said to occur in the last days. These people who claim to be Christians, are called backsliders. Sounds like a contradiction. How can someone sliding back from something, if they never were there to being with? The word "backslider" suggests that a person actually were at the point of being a believer, but lost it, while your first claim was that if someone left Christ, they were never there to being with. I think that's opposing views. You can't take both views simultaneous, but have to pick one, and stick with it. No, your bio says you were ill before you even found the Orthodox Church. But, isn't that what the Bible in a sense suggests? That we all are sinners, and have no control, and we're evil, and all that, and we need Jesus to get straight? So if we--all sinners--are rotten to the core, I don't see much difference being evil or being mentally ill, we would act the same and have similar problems, but in the end, Jesus would fix us up. So did Jesus fix him up? He was ill, he went to Jesus, he was still ill, and now you blame his illness for leaving Jesus? Blaming the victim much? Imagine if the lame who went to Jesus was not healed. Would the disciples blame the lame, and even say, "it was his lameness which made him not to be healed." You know, to me, it seems you're the one who's ill by blaming the victim for failed "healing." It's not an adhominem when a person points out a fact. An ad hominem is an unwarranted attack on the character of an individual. Ad hom is when you use a character flaw on a person to discredit his position. Like, "he's mentally ill, therefore his position and opinion is invalid." ... Exactly what you did! Your mental health issues plays a very important role in this situation. But we don't have to discuss this if you don't want to. You know, his mental issue would have been resolved if Jesus did exist, and Jesus really could fix him up, but Jesus didn't because he can't, because he doesn't exist. Jesus is no miracle worker or healer, he's just an imaginary friend. Orthodoxy does not teach we are insane before baptism. It teaches we have a demon in the heart. No one can deny this. Our proclivity toward sin and the passions is proof of this. So can and will Jesus take the demon away? Obviously he did not in this case. If our proclivity toward sin is the proof we have a demon, it means that when we get rid of the demon, we don't have the proclivity anymore. But since you say that he still loved the world, he still had the proclivity, so he either wasn't baptized (which I'm sure he was), or the baptism didn't take because Jesus was to busy to do the miracle (meaning, the Bible isn't true since it promises the salvation), or it's all just bull-crap (and the Bible isn't true for that reason). If it's all true what you say, then there are holes in it and you have to figure out how to cover contradictions and paradoxes. But if only parts are true, then we have to figure out what parts you got wrong, and correct you on them. In the end, I don't you care anyway, because you want whatever you believe to be true, it's not that you want to believe what is true. Did you get that? You believe something, and you want that to be true. But a more honest search for truth is to look for truth first, and then believe it. So clean out the wrong stuff first, then believe what's left. Start with your first question to me, I am going to ask for a moderator for this one if you keep windmilling. Our policies is that we do minimal moderating in the Lion's Den. If you want more serious and ordered discussion you have to open a topic in the Colosseum. Yes, but I've never seen a moral atheist. But I HAVE seen moral Christians. So Jesus didn't heal you from your blindness? Maybe your definition of morality is made in such a way that in only include Christians? Like: "morality is when you're Christian." Well, then of course... Orthodoxy does not teach that Satan has deceived scientists. Can you give me the name or source of one Orthodox figure who made this claim? Even if man did exist 100,000 years ago, this does not threated the biblical messege because the Bible does not give dates. Many Christians believe in an old earth theory. But there is an extensive body of scientific liturature showing that man can't possibly be older then 6,000 years old. There is no archaeological or anthropological evidence for the position you have claimed. ??? You need to get out more. It's not healthy to lock yourself in a room and only read apologetic literature. There are a deluge of evidence to support old Earth and old humans. The only way to deny the old Earth is to deny a truckload of different kinds of science and direct observations. It actually gets to the point that we have to discredit basic mathematics if you want to claim Earth to be younger. I'm sorry, but you have been had. You have been fooled. And only you can take yourself out of that pit of lies you live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiracyOfTheHead Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 QUOTE (PiracyOfTheHead @ Jan 22 2009, 10:37 PM) * Start with your first question to me, I am going to ask for a moderator for this one if you keep windmilling. HAnSolo:Our policies is that we do minimal moderating in the Lion's Den. If you want more serious and ordered discussion you have to open a topic in the Colosseum. Yeah, thats what I meant Hans...I meant get a mod and have it moved, just so I could keep track of all the rabbit trails. Like when Antlerman stepped into the Dawkins thread, he moved it for me to the Colosseum. But to address the bulk of what you spoke about...he was not telling the truth. In Orthodox literature everybody is mentally ill, theres an entire doctrine that covers this, the doctrine of the "NOUS" the governing part of the spirit which is claimed to be completely fragmented and twisted, absolutely corrupted, this is one of the teachings that hooked me, but back then I only had panic attacks and what I would now call mild bouts of depression.... It hooked me because I wanted to be mentally sound and they promised that would be fixed 100%, like in AA how they say "A higher power could restore us to sanity", Orthodoxy claims to do that at baptism and through the sacraments by realigning the NOUS. Instead everything that was wrong with me before christianity has become worse exponentially. He KNOWS that most people do not know Orthodox Teachings, so he tried to get away with a lot here. Like saying "Show me one orthodox saint that teaches this"...Umm its in the catechism for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 But to address the bulk of what you spoke about...he was not telling the truth. In Orthodox literature everybody is mentally ill, theres an entire doctrine that covers this, the doctrine of the "NOUS" the governing part of the spirit which is claimed to be completely fragmented and twisted, absolutely corrupted, this is one of the teachings that hooked me, but back then I only had panic attacks and what I would now call mild bouts of depression.... Yeah. I saw that. And I think I touched the same thing in one of my comments. It hooked me because I wanted to be mentally sound and they promised that would be fixed 100%, like in AA how they say "A higher power could restore us to sanity", Orthodoxy claims to do that at baptism and through the sacraments by realigning the NOUS. Instead everything that was wrong with me before christianity has become worse exponentially. He KNOWS that most people do not know Orthodox Teachings, so he tried to get away with a lot here. Like saying "Show me one orthodox saint that teaches this"...Umm its in the catechism for starters. Exactly. I totally understand what you're saying, and it shows that Jesus wasn't there to heal you, no miracle, no nothing. And if he claims that 99% was healed, it doesn't prove anything, since we're talking about an almighty God here. The promise of the miracle, or healing, is not promised to be a roll of the dice. The Bible clearly makes the promise that whoever goes to Jesus will be saved, healed, fixed, cleansed, etc. It doesn't say "99.9% of whoever come to me will be saved." So obviously this is one of the prime lies in the Bible, because God doesn't save everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Yes, but I've never seen a moral atheist. But I HAVE seen moral Christians. Possibly your idea of morality is twisted. What I've seen of you so far would indicate as much. Compassion is not one of your strengths. I've seen a great many Christians whose compassion is very severely limited. So I can see why you would say you've seen moral Christians. Many atheists I know have lots of compassion. That may well be the distinguishing mark and it would coincide with what you're saying. But there's another thing. No True Believer is so enmeshed with The World as to have internet access. You Apologist have internet access, which means you are not a True Believer. God says in 2 Cor. 6:17-18 for Christians to " come out from among them, and be ye separate,...and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters." Jesus says in John 17:11 and 18:36 that his disciples/kingdom should be in the world but not of the world. Obviously, participating in global networks such as the world wide web or internet as you do is everything BUT abstaining from the world. My own people abstain from such worldly entanglement; they are True Believers. Like you, they have very little compassion so you're on the right track--you just have to disentangle yourself from the world and you'll be home free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 You never answered my question. I'll ask it again for the third time. Give me one lie in the Bible. The fact that Jesus is called The Prince of Peace and yet he brings a sword to divide families and nations. Yes, but I've never seen a moral atheist. But I HAVE seen moral Christians. I have seem many moral Christians too because society is dominated by them. Your ilk drive the atheists into hiding. Excellent answer, on both counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Humans have not been given over completely to the devil. That's why humans can do good acts. But the demon in the heart leads the soul to the passions and sins of the lower fallen nature. And God is also in the human heart. He inspires people to good actions. The battle is in the mind between good and evil. But how can God be in the human heart if they have not be saved through your baptism? Are you saying God doesn't need your church rites to do his work? That would seem a step forward out of the Dark Ages. As an argument against you in your doctrinal views that man is evil at heart (or in your views, have demons in them), a simple thought would be to realize this fact: we have and are surviving as a species through our ability to work in societies. If we were evil at heart primarily, then the majority of what we do would be destructive. Yet if one can pull their head out of their doctrines long enough to look, you see life, love, growth, beauty, kindness, and creation everywhere! In fact far more than destruction. But alas, the darkness of soul languishing in the musty halls of a monastery by those who have chosen to withdraw from society, sees only gloom. And you speak of personality disorders? What came first? The doctrines that create pessimism, or a personality that identifies with it? That answer must be found in your heart. But I will argue strongly that reality, life itself, contracts your dark doctrines of the heart. It is those like the group you have found identity with, who condemn with their personal opinions those like Pelagius in Christian history, who saw man as essentially good at heart, and instead they adopted Augustinian views and gave them the business's stamp of approval as "orthodox". The whole process of this was no act of God sanctioning beliefs, but priests with beliefs fighting priests with beliefs - noting that the were ALL Christians seeing things differently. No, man struggles with selfishness, but he also is full of light and love - without your baptisms. If God is responsible for life, it is doing so quite well without you. I'm here for EVERYONE. May God bless and enlighten everyone here. Then you will be obeying your calling to respond to my points. And thank you, I have been enlightened and continue to be every day. Perhaps you may find truth exists where you don't expect it, if you are willing to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I asked you for your evidence against the idea that demons reside in the human heart. You have not given any evidence. You just simply dismissed it on what appears to be subjective grounds. Orthodoxy is the one true Church that has the authority of Christ. The history of the saints prove that this system works in deufying human souls. Elder Ephraim is known to be an Elder all over the world. His miracles and clairvoyants are well established. Obviously God is with him. Apologist, you're redefining words as you go. Ephraim the universal Elder!?!?!? I was a Christian far longer than you have been alive if that young man (below) is you--and I will assume he is until further enlightened. I've known men by the name of Ephraim and Ephraim was one of the sons of Jacob but he was NOT a foremost son such as Judah or Joseph. A guy who is universal would have obviously been known to me personally and such was not the case. So you're just plain wrong. Of course, this does not fit your personal subjective definition of "all over the world." As for the word subjective. Obviously it's you who is being subjective here. Mathgeek provided a very objective definition of the physical organ known as the heart and it fails to meet your subjective definition of whatever it is you want to convey (which is by definition subjective) so you cry foul. So be it. People are going out of their way to understand you and you're making fun of them. So much for the "love" of your god. No wonder you're defending cheats and criminals like Hovind. I watched your video where you defended Kent Hovind. Or wasn't that you? Good looking young man you are. But totally deceived. I don't have a webcam so I can't reply to your defense there. I'll post it here: Darwin had a scientific education such as existed in his day, and he did a lot of scientific experimentation. He also communicated professionally with others in the field. Read Origin of the Species. Evolution does not lose debates but creationists refuse to acknowledge evolutionists’ victories. That does not give evolution the lie. For your information, I have been researching William Lane Craig for the past six months. I've been debating his followers in his forums. I wanted to talk with Craig himself but he would not condescend to talk with me so he will have to live with the consequences of what I understand from reading his work, listening to his debates and lectures, and talking with his students, etc. Based on what I can see, the Discovery Institute and the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture are guilty of the conspiracy of which you (and he) accuse mainstream academia. See their Wedge Strategy. Mainstream academia is honestly seeking truth but Christians are NOT. Here are links where I outline my main conclusions supported with videos and other info I found on the internet: Evolution vs. Creationism: Listen to the Scientists Tiktaalik: Missing Fossil Link Found in April 06 Proof that Intelligent Design is Wrong That you reject all this evidence is not going to make it false or invalid, nor will your rejection make it go away or prove that evolutionists' arguments failed. Since we're not trying to prove anything, or win any arguments, it's pretty hard for you to force us to lose them. All we're trying to do is describe the universe. And we're trying to do this in ever more accurate methods. The more we learn the better we can describe things. And it seems we will never know it all. That is what makes learning so much fun--one never knows what lies around the next learning curve. Suspicious fundies will never believe this because their skepticism won't let them; transparent honesty is an alien concept to them. So be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Humans have not been given over completely to the devil. Unsupported assertion: No evidence that such a thing as a "devil" exists. As you are making an extraordinary claim, the burden of proof is upon you to prove that devils do exist. We are not obligated to disprove your mythology. By the way, you may not, under any circumstances, cite scripture or personal anecdotal experiences as "evidence". But there is an extensive body of scientific liturature showing that man can't possibly be older then 6,000 years old. Citations, please? We want to read this "scientific liturature" (sic) for ourselves. Kindly supply three examples of scientific journals or texts making these claims. No two may be from the same group of authors. All must be peer-reviewed scientific works... No religious journals. There is no archaeological or anthropological evidence for the position you have claimed. Incorrect. Ten minutes of research pulled up two pieces of evidence that contradict your claim. 2009 CE minus 6000 years = Approximately 3990 BCE. So anything older than that debunks your claim. Date of the paintings in the Chauvet Cave in southern France: Roughly 30,000 years ago. And the Ubaid period of Mesopotamian culture started approximately 2,000 years before your "can't possibly be older than..." date: The 'Ubaid (ca. 5800–4200 BC)"In the arid alluvial zone of Southern Mesopotamia, the 'Ubaid assemblage first developed in the early sixth millennium BC and lasted until about 4200 BC. Best known from the sites of Eridu (Safar, Mustafa, and Lloyd 1981) and more recently Oueili (Huot 1983; 1987; 1996b), the 'Ubaid material cultural assemblage (Figure 102) includes brown-painted and reduction-fired (often greenish) ware ceramics made on a slow wheel, large baked clay “nails” or “mullers,” clay sickles, and highly distinctive cone-head clay figurines (Perkins 1949: 73–90; Redman 1978: 247–250)... "...In sociopolitical terms, several lines of evidence suggest that 'Ubaid Mesopotamia was organized as a series of small-scale ranked societies that we can characterize as chiefdoms, grounded in corporate (Blanton et al. 1996) or communal modes of leadership (Akkermans 1989; G. Stein 1994b)." - from "A Tale of Two Oikumenai: Variation in the Expansionary Dynamics of 'Ubaid and Uruk Mesopotamia" by Gil J. Stein and Rana Özbal, Published in: Elizabeth C. Stone, ed. Settlement and Society: Ecology, urbanism, trade and technology in Mesopotamia and Beyond (Robert McC. Adams Festschrift). Los Angeles, Cotsen Institute of Archaeology So the 6,000 year claim can safely be discarded as the trash that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glebealyth Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 No, your bio says you were ill before you even found the Orthodox Church. It's not an adhominem when a person points out a fact. An ad hominem is an unwarranted attack on the character of an individual. Your mental health issues plays a very important role in this situation. But we don't have to discuss this if you don't want to. NO! It is an ad hominem when the person is attacked in lieu of producing arguments that support one's position or undermine those of one's antagonist. To use the non-typical mental health or psychological history of one's antagonist in an attempt to undermine his arguments or position IS an ad hominem tactic, and thus a logical fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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