If Yahweh Is Omnipotent....

[Ouroboros]

Maybe it was used in early evolution of that creature, then became dormant when they didn't need that trait any longer. I will look into it. Science isn't really my game, but I am game for about anything at this point in my life.

Exactly. And we all carry a large amount of dormant genes like this, and even dysfunctional genes, like the C-vitamin deficiency in humans and chimps. You know that human, chimps, and just a handful other animals can't produce C-vitamins naturally? Pretty much all other animals can do it automatically. And the funny thing is that the reason we can't, is because of some early virus infection back in the chain of ancestors. And the chimps got the exact same messed up gene. (as far as I understand it) Which only can lead to the conclusion that both chimps and humans come from the same ancestor. The chance of this happening randomly is very small. It's far more likely we are related. Maybe the chimps came from one of Noah's sons?

 

I can't help to think of the Croco duck!!

I'd like to see a Chocoduck instead, for Easter or Halloween.

[Abiyoyo]

 

Nothing that evolves is necessary in any planning sense or moral sense.

 

No what I mean is that there is much that has evolved that I don't like: mosquitoes, cockroaches, e-coli; measles; flu; religion... There is no should about evolution. There is only what is. There is however should in evolution. That is some creatures evolved with a circuit that worries about should.

 

But as I stated earlier, we are the dominant race, and can destroy, treat all you mentioned. Though, we can't destroy certain virus, diseases etc; we can contain, treat, rid those pesky mosquitoes, e-coli, measles, flu, and even religion. Mosquitoes, cockroaches still are a factor in the ecosystem Chef. They still play a role, other than irritation to humans.

 

I would suggest that all of civilization has created their own deities. That includes your deity. Yahwehjesusspook is just as much a human creation as Zeus or John Frum. But then you know that don't you?

 

It's your opinion Chef. My God is living, and I am living by my God. Should I renounce my God just because some believe He is not real?

 

You say Jesus wants his religion back. Well which one is it? You will most likely say that is yours right? If it is you ought to give it back. I gave it back some years ago, and found out that life is much better without having to lug it around everywhere constantly attending to it.

 

Do you think Jesus Christ would be happy if he returned and went to a few churches on Sunday morning? You should know that answer, didn't you used to be a pastor or something.

 

I will never give up my God, neither will I claim to be the only right way. In fact, I do the opposite by saying that I think there is more than one way to God, than Jesus.

[Guest end3]

If He were in charge....

If he isn't in charge why bother with him? It is much more likely that he just isn't.

 

Isn't that part of the story? That satan is in charge for a time? If I were in the original garden, then would things evolve?

[Abiyoyo]

 

Exactly. And we all carry a large amount of dormant genes like this, and even dysfunctional genes, like the C-vitamin deficiency in humans and chimps. You know that human, chimps, and just a handful other animals can't produce C-vitamins naturally? Pretty much all other animals can do it automatically. And the funny thing is that the reason we can't, is because of some early virus infection back in the chain of ancestors. And the chimps got the exact same messed up gene. (as far as I understand it) Which only can lead to the conclusion that both chimps and humans come from the same ancestor. The chance of this happening randomly is very small. It's far more likely we are related. Maybe the chimps came from one of Noah's sons?

 

Is that how evolutionist, scientists, whatever determined that we are evolved from chimps? Didn't a bunch of people die from this C deficiency in Russia, or Soviet, because of lack of sunlight, or is that something entirely different? Can't remember?

 

I'd like to see a Chocoduck instead, for Easter or Halloween.

 

[Ouroboros]

Is that how evolutionist, scientists, whatever determined that we are evolved from chimps?

One of many. I think there's 20 or 22 genes like this. The whole gene code is to 95-97% identical, but these genes are different because we don't share them with any other animal. And also, the chimps go one more chromosome, but based on the theory of evolution they made a prediction before they could test it, that two of the chimp genes were fused into one in humans, and when they tested it, it was confirmed. Two of the chimp chromosomes is fused into one in humans. Other than the fusion, they are identical. Would a God leave these kinds of logical, reasonable, and rational traces of evolution if they weren't true? It's the sign of a God who wants to deceive the scientists. If God exists, and God created the DNA, he is intentionally misleading.

 

Didn't a bunch of people die from this C deficiency in Russia, or Soviet, because of lack of sunlight, or is that something entirely different? Can't remember?

I'm not sure. I think sunlight causes some other vitamin, like the D-vitamin, and not C.

[chefranden]

1. But as I stated earlier, we are the dominant race, and can destroy, treat all you mentioned. Though, we can't destroy certain virus, diseases etc; we can contain, treat, rid those pesky mosquitoes, e-coli, measles, flu, and even religion. Mosquitoes, cockroaches still are a factor in the ecosystem Chef. They still play a role, other than irritation to humans.

 

2. It's your opinion Chef. My God is living, and I am living by my God. Should I renounce my God just because some believe He is not real?

 

3. Do you think Jesus Christ would be happy if he returned and went to a few churches on Sunday morning? You should know that answer, didn't you used to be a pastor or something.

 

4. I will never give up my God, neither will I claim to be the only right way. In fact, I do the opposite by saying that I think there is more than one way to God, than Jesus.

 

1. I know it is all interwoven. That doesn't mean that I like it all.

 

2. Just as every other religionist knows their God is living and yours is made up.

 

3. I don't think that there is any danger of Jesus visiting any Church.

 

I was a pastor, and if Jesus had visited my church, it would have passed inspection. Why? Because the Jesus that would have visited was the Jesus in my head. The Jesus in your head is clearly made up, while the Jesus mine of course was the real living Jesus. "If only you believed like I believed YoYo we'd get byyyy..."

 

So answer the question please, which religion does Jesus want back? That is which one does Jesus consider his?

 

4. Now where have I heard this before? .... Oh yah! I remember. I use to say it. Silly me, silly you.

[Abiyoyo]

One of many. I think there's 20 or 22 genes like this. The whole gene code is to 95-97% identical, but these genes are different because we don't share them with any other animal. And also, the chimps go one more chromosome, but based on the theory of evolution they made a prediction before they could test it, that two of the chimp genes were fused into one in humans, and when they tested it, it was confirmed. Two of the chimp chromosomes is fused into one in humans. Other than the fusion, they are identical. Would a God leave these kinds of logical, reasonable, and rational traces of evolution if they weren't true? It's the sign of a God who wants to deceive the scientists. If God exists, and God created the DNA, he is intentionally misleading.

 

If God had left these out of chimps, then would we today have determined that nothing else is close to our structure?

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure. I think sunlight causes some other vitamin, like the D-vitamin, and not C.

 

Oh yeah

[Abiyoyo]

4. Now where have I heard this before? .... Oh yah! I remember. I use to say it. Silly me, silly you.

 

The religion of selflessness, is the one I say He would want back.

[chefranden]

The religion of selflessness, is the one I say He would want back.

 

Lot's of religions try to practice this. Buddhism comes to mind. Which religion do you have in mind? Yours? Are you selfless? Have you sold all that is yours and given the proceeds to the poor? No? Well then this religion can't be yours. It must be a different one. But that's good because now you don't have to give it back.

[Ouroboros]

If God had left these out of chimps, then would we today have determined that nothing else is close to our structure?

We wouldn't have been as close relatives to the chimps if these equalities existed.

 

Here's the thing, there are so many things in nature that points to evolution and old Earth and Big Bang etc, that one need to ask if God put it there intentionally to mislead us. Evolution is not pure hyperbole and speculation, but is the best explanation to so many things. And currently it is starting to be influential in other sciences like anthropology, religion, society, sociology, psychology, etc. It can explain things, and it makes sense out of things. You can even see in Christianity how it has gone through different versions. It has been modified since its beginning. I doubt that you can say the modern Christians are the same as the Puritans who came over to America, or that the Catholics are the same as the first Christians. Maybe the strength in Christianity is its ability to adopt and adjust, rather than it is a static religion like Islam. But then again, Islam is winning grounds because it is so simple and absolute in its dogmas. There are no questions there. So what will win in the end? Static belief or dynamic belief? Or maybe no belief at all? Or maybe it's an endless battle?

[Abiyoyo]

The religion of selflessness, is the one I say He would want back.

 

Lot's of religions try to practice this. Buddhism comes to mind. Which religion do you have in mind? Yours? Are you selfless? Have you sold all that is yours and given the proceeds to the poor? No? Well then this religion can't be yours. It must be a different one. But that's good because now you don't have to give it back.

 

Then so be it, Buddhists jump on-board too. Who would be more likely to see Jesus as heir to God, selfish people, or unselfish people? Yes, I have lost everything in my life.

[Abiyoyo]

So what will win in the end? Static belief or dynamic belief? Or maybe no belief at all? Or maybe it's an endless battle?

 

I think dynamic. God is spirit, eh? So, if God is spirit then we must live, walk, breathe, in spirit( ...Paul? ) ; since He sent His spirit upon us to dwell there and establish His kingdom among His people, within them.

[chefranden]

Then so be it, Buddhists jump on-board too. Who would be more likely to see Jesus as heir to God, selfish people, or unselfish people? Yes, I have lost everything in my life.

 

Lost? That sounds sad, but it doesn't count as selflessness. You could be homeless walking around in your all-togethers and still be a selfish bastard.

 

How much selflessness is enough for this religion? On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being the chosen condition of starving on a dung heap and giving your last drop of water to someone else just as you croak. 10 Being remembering to get roses for your wife on her birthday.

[Abiyoyo]

Then so be it, Buddhists jump on-board too. Who would be more likely to see Jesus as heir to God, selfish people, or unselfish people? Yes, I have lost everything in my life.

 

Lost? That sounds sad, but it doesn't count as selflessness. You could be homeless walking around in your all-togethers and still be a selfish bastard.

 

How much selflessness is enough for this religion? On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being the chosen condition of starving on a dung heap and giving your last drop of water to someone else just as you croak. 10 Being remembering to get roses for your wife on her birthday.

 

Dunno. 1 through 10 I suppose

[Guest end3]

Then so be it, Buddhists jump on-board too. Who would be more likely to see Jesus as heir to God, selfish people, or unselfish people? Yes, I have lost everything in my life.

 

Lost? That sounds sad, but it doesn't count as selflessness. You could be homeless walking around in your all-togethers and still be a selfish bastard.

 

How much selflessness is enough for this religion? On a scale of 1-10 with 1 being the chosen condition of starving on a dung heap and giving your last drop of water to someone else just as you croak. 10 Being remembering to get roses for your wife on her birthday.

 

 

What do you find Chef, in your strict adherence to reality, your it is what it is approach?.....from the sound of your posts, it seems rather bleak. I don't know you, so I can't say what the quality of your life is like, but from your statements, it seems as though you are miffed about placing anything like hope or faith etc....out there as an option.

 

Please also know I wish the best for you and your family...

[Rev R]

Then so be it, Buddhists jump on-board too.

 

No thanks.

 

 

Who would be more likely to see Jesus as heir to God, selfish people, or unselfish people?

 

Given the role of Jesus in this religion, the selfish.

[chefranden]

What do you find Chef, in your strict adherence to reality, your it is what it is approach?.....from the sound of your posts, it seems rather bleak. I don't know you, so I can't say what the quality of your life is like, but from your statements, it seems as though you are miffed about placing anything like hope or faith etc....out there as an option.

 

Please also know I wish the best for you and your family...

 

What do I find? I suppose I find whats there. It's like really crossing the mountain to see what is in that other valley instead of just speculating and making up a fairy tale about what is there.

 

I don't speculate much on the quality of my life. After 36 years of marriage my wife still smiles at me and gives me a hug in the morning. My wife just built me a new computer. My finances are secure as possible due to being fucked up in Vietnam. One of my sons and his family live downstairs, so I get to see one of my grandchildren every day.

 

This post sounds like an example of one of the fallacies of Christian thought: "With out ChristianGod life is worthless."

 

Perhaps I sound miffed because I try to write to the point.

 

One of the many intellectual things that led to my eventual de-conversion was the writing of Francis Shaeffer. His advice in evangelism was to pursue your victim's world view to it's absurd ends so that he could see that Jesus was the answer. What a great idea! Problem was that I had to do the same to my own world view to be fair.

 

A statement like Jesus saves automatically leads to the question: "Jesus saves from what?" Christians have trained themselves to be content with the doctrinal answers peculiar to their respective denomination and/or peculiar to their own speculation of what sort of god they could actually like or love. But these all lead to further questions that among Christians are usually unasked.

 

"Jesus called and wants his religion back." That's a nice warm fuzzy, but it doesn't say anything. The question it raises is glaring: WHAT RELIGION? It probably doesn't seem glaring to you, because you mean, "my religion is what Jesus wants." But why should I, or any other atheist, or for that matter any other Christian accept that?

[Deva]

I don't speculate much on the quality of my life. After 36 years of marriage my wife still smiles at me and gives me a hug in the morning. My wife just built me a new computer. My finances are secure as possible due to being fucked up in Vietnam. One of my sons and his family live downstairs, so I get to see one of my grandchildren every day.

 

Congratulations Chef, that is more than many people can say.

 

"Jesus called and wants his religion back." That's a nice warm fuzzy, but it doesn't say anything. The question it raises is glaring: WHAT RELIGION? It probably doesn't seem glaring to you, because you mean, "my religion is what Jesus wants." But why should I, or any other atheist, or for that matter any other Christian accept that?

 

That's right, very well stated.

[hereticzero]

If Yawnweh were omnipotent then he would have told Moses and Daniel, or other prophets, about airplanes, tanks, cars, gasoline, cell phones, probes to Mars, aircraft carriers, black holes, galaxies, evolution of species, evolution of the cosmos, television, and Graham Norton.

[Ouroboros]

If Yawnweh were omnipotent then he would have told Moses and Daniel, or other prophets, about airplanes, tanks, cars, gasoline, cell phones, probes to Mars, aircraft carriers, black holes, galaxies, evolution of species, evolution of the cosmos, television, and Graham Norton.

And God could have taught Moses how to heal people using medicine, and to create his own airplanes too. God could also have educated them in advanced philosophy early on, and explained the intricate complexity of human nature. But it took people who refused to believe the Bible as the inerrant word to find all the deeper understandings of nature, which shows that reason is the right tool for the job, not belief in old prophets.

[Guest end3]

This post sounds like an example of one of the fallacies of Christian thought: "With out ChristianGod life is worthless."

 

If you are referring to my post, I think you are missing my point, especially since I have not made a point. No harm....

 

For me, seems like in order to be happy, I have to have something with potential success looming on the horizon. I don't know why, as I have a reasonably nice wife , 3 smart children and no one has health issues. Without the looming "project", I feel as I am just marking time. I don't know that stability and intellectual seeking will do it for me.

 

Probably why I am drawn towards Christianity in a sense....a successful "endpoint" in theory.

 

One of the man y intellectual things that led to my eventual de-conversion was the writing of Francis Shaeffer. His advice in evangelism was to pursue your victim's world view to it's absurd ends so that he could see that Jesus was the answer. What a great idea! Problem was that I had to do the same to my own world view to be fair.

 

Perhaps that is what I am saying, that listening to your endpoint from my prospective leads me to think you are cynical about most things outside of the trust you have in your family....but, I can full well see where that might stem from.

 

A statement like Jesus saves automatically leads to the question: "Jesus saves from what?"

 

From evil..

 

Christians have trained themselves to be content with the doctrinal answers peculiar to their respective denomination and/or peculiar to their own speculation of what sort of god they could actually like or love. But these all lead to further questions that among Christians are usually unasked.

 

I have been here asking with you folks, and the current conclusion I have come to is not that Christian concept in itself is screwed, but that most people won't let themselves be hurt by overly trusting others......and I probably won't do that again myself.

 

Your statement about the Jesus wants his religion back...you said what religion....seems to me it is trust, and those who are able to put themselves out there to be wounded reap the rewards if one can bare the pain....

 

Thanks for the answer.

[Abiyoyo]

And God could have taught Moses how to heal people using medicine, and to create his own airplanes too. God could also have educated them in advanced philosophy early on, and explained the intricate complexity of human nature. But it took people who refused to believe the Bible as the inerrant word to find all the deeper understandings of nature, which shows that reason is the right tool for the job, not belief in old prophets.

 

I agree and disagree with you here Hans. I don't think God revealed certain knowledge to man, because even if God spent 10yrs training them about medicines, and airplanes; to what advantage is that. We may have been a different culture altogether, yet i doubt it. Didn't the Egyptians have a moment of airplane knowledge, or thought? Medicines, how would that have worked? Go from manna to antibiotics? What were the primary diseases of then that could've been treated?

 

As far as the inerrant Bible, I agree. It limits the mind.

[chefranden]

This post sounds like an example of one of the fallacies of Christian thought: "With out ChristianGod life is worthless."

 

If you are referring to my post, I think you are missing my point, especially since I have not made a point. No harm....

 

I guess I was referring to your post, though truth be told I thought I was addressing YoYo. But remember, lots of my older relatives have died of dementia.

 

For me, seems like in order to be happy, I have to have something with potential success looming on the horizon. I don't know why, as I have a reasonably nice wife , 3 smart children and no one has health issues. Without the looming "project", I feel as I am just marking time. I don't know that stability and intellectual seeking will do it for me.

 

Probably why I am drawn towards Christianity in a sense....a successful "endpoint" in theory.

 

Projects are a dime a dozen, if you run out I have a few you can work on. I could keep you busy right up to croaking day, my croaking day that is. Like me olde grandpa useta say, "They's no end to work projects." By the way, have you thought of how you are going to top heaven? I'm mean what is going to be your project end point in the hereafter? If you were a Mormon you could get your own planet and raise a passel of new gods for the universe. Maybe you could get strong enough to kick Yahweh's ass. If I were you I wouldn't go in for that free will shit. It causes too much trouble.

 

Perhaps that is what I am saying, that listening to your endpoint from my prospective leads me to think you are cynical about most things outside of the trust you have in your family....but, I can full well see where that might stem from.

 

I am cynical. My rose colored glasses broke after we elected that psychopathic pair the second time.

 

A statement like Jesus saves automatically leads to the question: "Jesus saves from what?"

 

From evil..

 

Well what's he waiting for then? There is plenty of evil around for him to rub out right now. He claimed he'd be back before the last disciple died.

[Ouroboros]

I agree and disagree with you here Hans. I don't think God revealed certain knowledge to man, because even if God spent 10yrs training them about medicines, and airplanes; to what advantage is that. We may have been a different culture altogether, yet i doubt it. Didn't the Egyptians have a moment of airplane knowledge, or thought? Medicines, how would that have worked? Go from manna to antibiotics? What were the primary diseases of then that could've been treated?

 

As far as the inerrant Bible, I agree. It limits the mind.

Well God surely had time to spend 40 years on Moses to teach him to believe in 613 laws, which of 603 are rejected by Christians. What good did that make?

[Abiyoyo]

Well God surely had time to spend 40 years on Moses to teach him to believe in 613 laws, which of 603 are rejected by Christians. What good did that make?

 

Yes, he did. Jews and Islam even reject alot of them though, right?