Anyone ever changed their mind on politics?

[Guest aexapo]

Trashy made a good point in a hot thread today: "Is anyone even ready to consider the possibility of changing their minds?"

 

The implication, it seems, is that political discussions/debates are hopeless -- since no one ever changes their mind.

 

I disagree! I've changed my mind many times during my adult life -- not so many times concerning the directions I lean (that has only changed once), but on policies and people -- yes, many times.

 

My BIG political change was between Bush I and Clinton. I voted for both (1988, 1992). The change is self-explanatory. Been leaning left ever since. I have never voted for a single GOP candidate since.

 

As a gay leftist, I voted against Clinton in '96, because I realized he was simply a political opportunist, and not truly committed to the causes that made the Democratic party great in the '30's and '40's (labor, job protection/creation), or to the civil rights issues and anti-poverty issues that cobbled together it's last successful coalition of special interests (devolution of welfare, backing off gays in military, signing DOMA). I threw my vote away to another nut that year, some transcendentalist from the Natural Law party.

 

I nearly stopped voting after that -- convinced that there was no difference between candidates Al Gore and GWB. They both were campaigning like Bill Clinton -- lying opportunists. I voted for Nader -- and have had mixed feelings about that (not that a vote in TX would have made a difference). On the one hand, if Gore had won (I did root for him during the recount), we wouldn't have had Iraq . . . but, then . . . who knows? The republican wing of the Democratic Party (Bill, HRC, Gore) all try to be as hawkish as the GOP, so it may have happened anyway -- and the GOP would be playing the whiney "no justification" card now (because, most assuredly, that would be the cards played by Fox and Limbaugh). Republicans are only "pacifists" when a Democrat is in the WH (Serbia, Somalia).

 

For a long time, up until 2004, I regretted my voting for Nader -- and when Gore hit the stump again for the party, I was reminded why I voted against him. Despite several good speeches during the campaign, he's still the lying opportunist that Clinton transformed him into. You could read the dishonesty on his face, and could almost palpate his continued bitterness and envy for not being the "favored son" any more.

 

As a leftie, HRC doesn't make me feel all comfy. I'll probably only vote for her if the Southern states successfully force the GOP to put up a fundy-con for prez again. If their candidate is more centrist (like HRC), I'll vote my conscious.

 

I'm nearly as far left as one can be, and I don't apologize for it. The Democratic Party has failed the working middle class, and will probably never regain the trust of them again -- though seeing through the 3 G scheme (gods, gays, and guns) charade of the neo-con Geppettos in the GOP may have them running for alternates.

 

So, when I criticize the Right -- don't mistake it for having a blind eye toward the DNC. I'm fully aware of their faults -- which is why they are losing my support.

[Vixentrox]

I'm changed my political views. The biggest changes came after leaving Xtianity. I used to be pro-life, pro-welfare, pro-socialized medicine and anti-pot. Now I'm pretty much the opposite on these. I've always been somewhat nationalistic, always been for toughness on crime, and always pro-gun.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

I changed. I was a Republican for many years and have voted for Republicans in elections at all level of government including President.

 

Now I think they are very wrong on many social and freedom issues and generally don't vote republican.

[a midnight star]

Believe or not I do happen to agree with most of what you both have said. I voted for Bush basically because he was the lessor of the two evils. At least he took a stand and stuck with it. I knew where he stood.

 

I do consider myself a Repbulican. But I am in the middle. I find some good in the DNC, but on some core issues that has nothing to do with the war I am on the right.

 

Yes, I ageed then and I do agree now with the war. But that does not mean that I agree with everything that Bush stands for? No.

 

I vote not on party lines, but rather on the canidate in general. I personally won't vote for an independent until one comes around that I think has a "chance in hell" of making it. Otherwise, my vote will be just wasted and I find that the person I dislike the most is voted in.

 

I voted for Perot (sp) and not Bush Sr. So Clinton became pres. That is a mistake I will not make again.

 

I can and will change my mind on any subject as long as there are facts to back up the claim.

 

I do not judge anybody, polition or civilian, on rumor alone. It takes hard proof for me to believe in something. One of the reasons I left xanity was because I found that there wasn't any hard proof that the god in the bible equals the god i knew. If somebody told me that my husband was cheating on me, I would not believe it until I see it for myself. Same with anybody or anything.

 

So can or will I change my mind?

Yes, show me proof and I will change my mind. Just in the same way that if the rapture occured, I will change my opinion of god real quick. Hey, there is hard proof.

[trashy]

Trashy made a good point in a hot thread today: "Is anyone even ready to consider the possibility of changing their minds?"

 

The implication, it seems, is that political discussions/debates are hopeless -- since no one ever changes their mind.

 

I disagree!  I've changed my mind many times during my adult life -- not so many times concerning the directions I lean (that has only changed once), but on policies and people -- yes, many times.

And I've certainly changed my mind on many things as well (uh, like religion for example)......what I was pointing out was my opinion on the complete waste of time that debating politics is *on message boards*....UNLESS (caveat) you can possibly get a group together that is level-headed, willing to think things through, and that can avoid copying and pasting other people's thoughts and can avoid ranting......which would be next to impossible from my experience. I started debating politics online somewhere around 1996-97. I've never seen it change someone's viewpoint. It's just not a good medium for that. I could read Salon.com and moveon.org all day long and I'm not going to come to some sort of epiphany and suddenly start showing up at G8 summit protests. You throw down something from the NY Times editorial pages and I throw down something from Christopher Hitchens and we both read and disagree.

 

Anyhoo, that's what I was trying to say......

[Bongo]

I've been voting republican since adulthood.

 

But.... with the advent of this wonderful internet, my mind is opening a bit.

 

I think I could NEVER vote for the dem politicians, who I believe are nothing more than [insert nasty names here] but I am open to the possiblity that the bush company is evil, greedy, cynical, etc.

 

Even if I accept the conspiracy ideas like bush creating (or willfully didn't prevent) 911, and is totally diabolical and Repubs are suckers for believeing him, and the pentagon plane didnt' happen, and the WTC was brought down my demolitions (and i may yet turn to those beliefs), I still wont vote dem.

 

At least, that's how it stands now.

 

Quick answer--It is possible that I may yet change. Persuasive arguments that are not insulting or sarcastic may do the job. However, even if my faith is totally lost toward the bushies, I dont think i could support the demos.

 

Hmm. just had a thought. I would vote dem if it prevented my son from being drafted, whether i liked the dem in question or not.

 

(so now I've pissed off everyone on the board )

 

Luvs to you all (except this one xer in a debate thread, and another guy who wanted to kill everyone, and his defenders.)

[Brother Jeff]

I am open to the possiblity that the bush company is evil, greedy, cynical, etc.

 

It's not just a possibility, it's a rather obvious reality, at least IMHO.

[Vixentrox]

It's all part of the process of change. Rarely does anyone wake up one day and change thier opinion 180 without something to cause the change.

[Totallyatpeace]

I voted Republican until the last election. I finally decided to vote my conscience instead of my faith.

 

Tap

[Guest Son of Belial]

I used to be a downright fascist, so yeah, I've changed.

[Merlinfmct87]

I can't really decide where to vote. I'm equally disgusted with both parties. *sigh*

 

Merlin

[Vixentrox]

I can't really decide where to vote. I'm equally disgusted with both parties. *sigh*

 

Merlin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I made it a matter of policy NOT to vote while I was in the military. Now that I'm getting out....a pity no one worthy of being voted on it seems.

[trashy]

OK, lots of you are commenting on how you've changed. But did this change come about because of something you read on an internet message board?

 

That was my original question.

[a midnight star]

Sometimes, yes. There have also been times when while researching that I have found some facts where I have ended up proving myself wrong.

[Merlinfmct87]

I made it a matter of policy NOT to vote while I was in the military.  Now that I'm getting out....a pity no one worthy of being voted on it seems.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Exactly! It's almost better to have the place empty.

 

OK, lots of you are commenting on how you've changed.  But did this change come about because of something you read on an internet message board?

 

That was my original question. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I know for a fact that Ex-C has opened my eyes in ways I never thought possible. Really killed a lot of illusions for me.

 

Thank you to all of Ex-C...

 

Merlin

[I Broke Free]

I have changed my political views and affiliations numerous times. I consider it a healthy sign that I am still “thinking.” I was very nationalistic as a teenager and in my 20’s, but now I see it as a kind of blind-faith, similar to religion.

 

I am in a bit of an apathetic phase right now. I don’t see any political partly that comes close to representing my positions.

[Totallyatpeace]

OK, lots of you are commenting on how you've changed.  But did this change come about because of something you read on an internet message board?

 

That was my original question. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No. My change came do to the war....Halliburton and reading the news outside of the mainstream media. I wanted to know the truth and I believe I found it.

 

I turned 180 degrees in my thinking after that.

[Purple Rhino]

I have changed my outlook and mind many times over the years on issues. And have voted for both sides of the aisle at different times along with some indy/green votes.

 

I personally don't think that either major party is today what it started out to be. Although in my experience the Dems will kiss you before they f^@k you.

 

I hold dear humanist values and vote accordingly. But I also am pro-gun and have literally NO opinion on abortion ... as a gay man I really have a slim chance of facing that particular hurdle. So I will continue to vote for a womans right to choose, because she can also choose Not to have one.

 

I believe in hand ups not hand outs and most of all I hope that someday Equality will include Every Citizen and not just the popular

 

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I voted Republican until the last election. I finally decided to vote my conscience instead of my faith.

 

Tap

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I really do like this person!

 

Hi TaP

 

 

 

PR

[Vixentrox]

I think that my opinions have certainly been colored by some things on the internet. For most people changes come slowly after being hit with numerous sources of info.

[Totallyatpeace]

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I really do like this person!

 

Hi TaP

PR

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hello, my dear purple friend........

[Guest Son of Belial]

OK, lots of you are commenting on how you've changed.  But did this change come about because of something you read on an internet message board?

 

That was my original question. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To some degree, yes. My opinion of homosexuals changed through interaction with them, both in real life, but more on message boards, since I don't get out much.

 

Like I said, I used to be a right fascist...

[RedPillAddict]

I think I could NEVER vote for the dem politicians, who I believe are nothing more than [insert nasty names here] but I am open to the possiblity that the bush company is evil, greedy, cynical, etc.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That about where I stand, also. There is no way that one group is right and the other wrong. Both sides have extreme "evil" and lots of people who are just trying to do the right thing.

[Asimov]

My political views have been changing a lot lately...I'm not sure exactly what I am.

 

I've always been liberal though...

[Guest aexapo]

OK, lots of you are commenting on how you've changed.  But did this change come about because of something you read on an internet message board?

 

That was my original question. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nothing on an internet message board can be construed as fact -- it can, however, be an impetus for independent research, and I'm ALWAYS researching something to its most ridiculous nuance, generally on the internet, and generally due to something I've read on message boards, blogs, etc. My change in political direction mostly occurred before the internet became popular and widely usable, but I have changed opinions on policies and opinions based on research done on the internet -- perhaps spurred by conversations on message boards.

 

Because anyone can say anything on a message board -- true or false, only the most gullible would change their mind due to one internet posting. One can be guided to dig out the facts themselves, again, inspired by such conversations -- but, it's highly unlikely that it would happen just from one posting.

 

Now, I do believe that personal philosophies can change from internet postings, especially when a person is barraged with sound reasoning, arguments, that they haven't been accustomed to before. I've seen "anti-testimonies" on this forum where some have claimed this forum helped them resolve that Christianity was false . . . my own spiritual experience was similar: I went from being a quasi-new age spiritualist to an atheist, mostly from my own experience as a mod on Ex Pentecostal Forums.

 

I don't think you can look to message boards for evidence of any fact, but they can certainly help guide a person to find things out for themselves, or expose them to a world of reason and logic that they didn't know themselves.

[Guest aexapo]

Believe or not I do happen to agree with most of what you both have said. I voted for Bush basically because he was the lessor of the two evils. At least he took a stand and stuck with it. I knew where he stood.

 

I didn't believe (at the time) that they were both "really" evil, just lying opportunists. My opinion of Gore has remained the same, my opinion of Bush has worsened.

 

I've heard the "conviction" argument before, and it doesn't sell with me. I agree that Bush has more personal conviction about his decisions -- probably more so than any politician since Truman.

 

The reason it doesn't sell with me is because it means one thing only: stubbornness. It means Bush will "stand by" his decisions and beliefs, even if they are wrong, and even if they are the wrong thing for the country. I want a President that wants the best things for the nation -- not just one that will never change his mind. If Bush signed an energy bill that scientists world-wide agreed would condemn the world to be oxygen-free in five years, Bush would say: "I stand behind my decision." End of discussion.

 

Conviction doesn't make a decision right or wrong -- it just means we'll always drive in one gear, even if the terrain demands a different one.

 

I vote not on party lines, but rather on the canidate in general. I personally won't vote for an independent until one comes around that I think has a "chance in hell" of making it. Otherwise, my vote will be just wasted and I find that the person I dislike the most is voted in.

 

This is a very popular opinion -- voting for the person and not the party. The problem is, when the politician goes to Washington, or the state capital, he'll vote exactly the way the party brass tells him to, or the way his big donors tell him to, or he'll have no role in party leadership, and his bills won't get past a committee. There are a few defectors here and there -- but these are mostly from people not seeking reelection, or from people who's major contributor is telling them to buck the party vote on one bill. They're allowed a few defections, but most stick with the marching orders of Tom Delay and Nancy Pelosi.

 

For me, "party" isn't supreme, but it is quite crucial. I could never vote for a Republican, even if it was a personal aquaintance, because I know how they'll vote in DC -- the GOP party line, which always votes against gays, freethinkers, and the middle class, etc. If they want a political career -- they'll have no choice.

 

My crucial indicator is "the issues." I know what my personal interests are, and what my hopes and dreams are for the country, and so I vote for the party that aligns with it mostly (usually some left-wing third party), or with the Democrats, who support about half of the things important to me. I agree with the GOP only on one issue: gun control -- but they are so against me in every other facet of my life, I can't imagine "guns" being the deciding factor in any election -- at least not for me.

 

So, I don't vote for "the person," because personal politics is a non-reality in Washington. It's like voting for your choice of gem-stones for your heavenly palace in the afterlife . . . it ain't gonna happen. I use the "parties" as a partial guide - because I know the issues the parties represent, regardless of the "individual" in the race.

 

Some people think voting third party is a wasted vote. I don't. Politicians have to earn my vote -- I don't give it away like its a popularity contest, and have no desire to be on my local news at the age of 88 saying, "I've always voted for the winner!" I've always thought these people were so lame -- it's like their epitaph should say "I always went along with the crowd!" Yeck!