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Ouroboros

Give Us Scientific Proof For Creationism

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Andrasd2000,

 

I suggest you read a couple of book explaining evolution. I took a couple of classes, and I was blown away with how much evidence there is.

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Note: The site decided to call me an authentic christian, which is not true. I am a proud Jew

 

I am seeing a point missing in this discussion. Some might believe in guided evolution, but evolution only begins, once there is matter. Science has never been able to answer how matter got there in the first place. Things can't create themselves. Something was always there. It is much more logically sound that God was always there and not matter. Firstly, something being always there goes beyond reason. Matter does not go beyond reason. God does. Secondly, if something is always there, it is infinite. Infinity cannot be divided. God cannot be divided. Matter can.

 

The points I am making are very classics proof that God exists. Once one accepts this, the conclusion is (as Judaism teaches) that God created matter out of nothing. You can see my post on the mathematical proof of God that infinity (God) times 0 (nothing) = all things.

 

Once God created matter, one can now discuss if there was guided evolution or classic creationism. Either way science is only post matter. How it got there is another story.  

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I am seeing a point missing in this discussion. Some might believe in guided evolution, but evolution only begins, once there is matter. Science has never been able to answer how matter got there in the first place. Things can't create themselves. Something was always there. It is much more logically sound that God was always there and not matter. Firstly, something being always there goes beyond reason. Matter does not go beyond reason. God does. Secondly, if something is always there, it is infinite. Infinity cannot be divided. God cannot be divided. Matter can.

 

The points I am making are very classics proof that God exists. Once one accepts this, the conclusion is (as Judaism teaches) that God created matter out of nothing. You can see my post on the mathematical proof of God that infinity (God) times 0 (nothing) = all things.

 

Once God created matter, one can now discuss if there was guided evolution or classic creationism. Either way science is only post matter. How it got there is another story.  

 

All wrong.  You are not offering a proof.  This is wishful thinking.  The fact that science does not yet have the power to measure or gather information from before the big bang doesn't mean your imaginary friend did it.  Rather it means we don't know.  Not knowing doesn't mean "God" any more then it means anything else.  Perhaps Professor Zoidburg existed before time and he created matter.  Zoidburg has as much evidence going for him as God does.

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(cont...)

 

Applying Thermodynamics just to our universe and saying that it will eventually run down is therefore a non-argument. Here's why.

 

Applying the false boundary of 'just-our-universe-and-no-more' runs contrary to the basic conclusions of Big bang theory, which holds that our universe is just one part of an infinite whole. Our universe is not a closed system, where Thermodynamics will yield an eventual 'run down'. It is part of an infinite whole.

 

Secondly, if the Big Bang's starting point (singularity) had infinite energy to begin with...

...has already produced an infinite quantity of pocket universes

... is currently producing 'new' pocket universes...

...and is predicted to continue doing so for billions of years to come, how can this 'run down'?

The simple answer is that it cannot. Infinities never run down. That is simple logic. Infinity never runs out of steam. Only closed systems with boundaries run down and as mentioned earlier, applying any kind of boundary (based on what we observe) is illogical, mistaken or just plain bad science.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

In conclusion...

 

Holding to Big Bang theory means accepting ALL of it and not just cherry-picking what we want from it.

Accepting all of it means accepting that our observable universe is NOT all that there is.

Therefore, taking just our observable universe as everything there is and using this to invoke a boundary is wrong.

There is no such boundary. Therefore, Thermodynamic principles cannot be applied to such a 'closed' system because there is no such closed system.

 

If you hold to Big Bang theory you cannot also use Thermodynamics to run down the universe.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

You cannot apply thermo, because thermodynamics says the universe is expanding less and less and will contract. The expansion rate ofthe universe is actually increasing (i.e. dark energy)

 

 

Hmmm... somehow I missed this one.

 

Can you cite or link to a reputable source re: your claim please, Antix? 

Specifically, that thermodynamics says that the universe is expanding less and less and will contract.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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I am seeing a point missing in this discussion. Some might believe in guided evolution, but evolution only begins, once there is matter. Science has never been able to answer how matter got there in the first place. Things can't create themselves. Something was always there. It is much more logically sound that God was always there and not matter. Firstly, something being always there goes beyond reason. Matter does not go beyond reason. God does. Secondly, if something is always there, it is infinite. Infinity cannot be divided. God cannot be divided. Matter can.

Actually, the topic was about giving evidence for Creationism (like the literal biblical account of how God supposedly spoke light into existence and then shaped humans from clay and breathed spirit in their nostrils), so your point isn't really missing from the discussion. It's intentionally omitted. This thread isn't about proving God, but about proving "And God commanded the lands to bring forth all living plants." A tad different. In other words, Big Bang, evolution, guided or otherwise, is not the topic.

 

The points I am making are very classics proof that God exists. Once one accepts this, the conclusion is (as Judaism teaches) that God created matter out of nothing. You can see my post on the mathematical proof of God that infinity (God) times 0 (nothing) = all things.

Well, the topic wasn't about proving God's existence, but proving that a God created the world according to fundamentalist Christian views. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

Once God created matter, one can now discuss if there was guided evolution or classic creationism. Either way science is only post matter. How it got there is another story.

And that's probably discussed in another topic somewhere on this forum. smile.png

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This is the opening post of this thread (repeated):

Christians,

This is a topic addressed to Christians who do not believe in Evolution, but believe in an alternative explanation, like Creationism.

If you believe in Theistic Evolution, and there's an interest in discussing that and how it stands versus Natural Evolution, then we can create a topic for that too.

But for now, lets keep this thread to one, just one single issue: What evidence is there for Creationism.

Lets us loosely define Creationism:

It's the believe that a Divine Creator did not use Evolution to create the biological life on this planet, but rather instantaneously and magically made plants, animals, insects, and humans appear just by speaking words.

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