Christians - Fess Up To Your Beliefs

[Guest end3]

You are still missing the point. Why does God need garden to fix it?

 

No, Adam and Eve walked with God before the "fall of man" as you would like to see it now, God and man, God and Ms. D walking as good creation.

 

Wander all around the point, it doesn't change it.

 

End3 please comprehend that I do not believe there was a fall of man, or a Garden of Eden. Nothing I say will convince you, obviously.

 

I thought we were discussing within the context of the story? You would like an explanation outside of the Biblical story?

[Guest end3]

Please clarify. Are you saying that you don't believe God knows everything? He didn't know the outcome in advance?

 

I am saying Davka, that if God gave them absolute rights to there will, then how could there be any knowing of the outcome unless he retained some control of there will?

 

But does that make it right? The Christian argument is that God is sovereign and good, therefore whatever He does is right, and we have no right to question him. But what proof is there that God is sovereign and good? His actions as described in the Bible seem to say otherwise.

 

It's a circular argument. "God is good" Who says so? "God." Where? "In the Bible." Why should I believe the Bible? "Because God wrote it." How do you know? "Because it says so." Um . . .

 

Take a step back, and consider this: I am postulating the existence of a perfect, all-powerful being. Everything this being does is good. This being raped a woman for his own purposes. If you or I did that, we would be doing wrong. But because this being did it, it's good. He then eviscerated the woman and wore her entrails as a necklace, which is also good, because it was done by him. If you question him, he will rape you and wear your entrails as a wristband. Who are you to question an all-powerful being who says he is good?

 

Now, the being I have just described is not the god of the Bible. But he is all-powerful, and can do whatever he wants to. Who are you to question him? If he says he is good, then he is good. You have no right to impose your beliefs on an all-powerful being. You are puny and limited, but he is omnipotent and omniscient.

 

So tell me: is my fictional being "good" or not?

 

I understand your point as you point out what many here have expressed.

 

Let's take a look at when I first arrived here....I made the proposition that Moses's face glowed after meeting with God because of excited electrons....being in the presense of a higher power, literally. And now, approximately two years later, science says, hey look, human faces give off visible light(see thread in the Science subforum). That doesn't prove that God exists, but it is possible. Two years ago, I was labeled as a stupid Christian.

 

So I base my faith that God is "good" on personal experience, and when I don't understand completely, I side with God until more is revealed to me. Certainly, if I had had a bad experience, then I sure might feel differently. All I try to do is put a thought out there that although abstract, might just be something to consider.

 

And another truth, it helps me to vent my daily frustrations on dirtbags like teabag.....just kidding teabag, idiot looks good on you.

[Mriana]

See, you are the type bonehead that will bitch about most anything, much like you represent here. God enacted the law and executed justice, but no, that is the mean God that we don't like, yet you still advocate justice as something you wish to see. I am not making deferred adjudication up, it happens all the time. If you read, dumb ass, it says for certain offenses, but you bring up raping a child as your example. You are at best a stupid mother fucker. Get over it already you whining bitch. Everyone gets hurt, regardless of religion, and everyone displays hypocracy....except for you, who wants to rub someones nose in it. Good man you are....what are you, about 14?

 

*mocking voice* Gasp! And you call yourself a Xian? Such language! You know my relatives would be screaming that is not Xian concerning the use of such language. Shame on you! Such sinful behaviour!

[Guest Davka]

Let's take a look at when I first arrived here....I made the proposition that Moses's face glowed after meeting with God because of excited electrons....being in the presense of a higher power, literally. And now, approximately two years later, science says, hey look, human faces give off visible light(see thread in the Science subforum). That doesn't prove that God exists, but it is possible. Two years ago, I was labeled as a stupid Christian.

 

Well, saying "it is possible" really doesn't go all that far. I mean, Scientology is possible, but that won't stop me from pointing and laughing when someone tries to sell me an auditing to remove engrams.

 

I wasn't here when you came in with a thread about Moses, so I can't really comment, except to say that it seems like you're more of a science-minded Christian than a kneejerk fundy kind.

 

 

So I base my faith that God is "good" on personal experience, and when I don't understand completely, I side with God until more is revealed to me.

 

I understand completely. That was my position for about 18 years. During that time, more and more was revealed, until I was eventually left with the inevitable conclusion that the God of the Bible is an irrational being, most likely mythological, constructed by primitive people.

 

Certainly, if I had had a bad experience, then I sure might feel differently.

 

It's only a matter of time. Just keep on thinking. Rational thought is the enemy of religion.

 

 

All I try to do is put a thought out there that although abstract, might just be something to consider.

 

Hey, I have no problems with that. I do the same thing all the time. Sometimes I put out thoughts that I don't seriously buy into, just because they strike me as interesting. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you make it clear it's just a hypothetical - otherwise you face the Ultimate Flames of Doom, which will fry your virtual ass if you're not wearing your asbestos undies.

[Tealeaf]

See, you are the type bonehead that will bitch about most anything, much like you represent here. God enacted the law and executed justice, but no, that is the mean God that we don't like, yet you still advocate justice as something you wish to see. I am not making deferred adjudication up, it happens all the time. If you read, dumb ass, it says for certain offenses, but you bring up raping a child as your example. You are at best a stupid mother fucker. Get over it already you whining bitch. Everyone gets hurt, regardless of religion, and everyone displays hypocracy....except for you, who wants to rub someones nose in it. Good man you are....what are you, about 14?

 

I'm not one to point out name-calling. I usually don't give a rats ass what someone calls me. I'll use names here and there but only as flavour to an already well-established point.

 

You sir, have done ntohing now for me except call names....with nothing behind it.

 

What can't you see abou tthe fact that just because you want to say something is true, does not make it so? How are our beliefs true while everyone elses are fiction?

 

What I am doing here is displaying how what your holy book puts forth is not logical and makes no sense. Instead of focusing on that, you make baseless assertions and then get mad and start name-calling when we call you out on it.

 

Are you even capable of understanding what the original topic I am disecting is? Or does the brainwashing process just lead you instantly into a tangent train of thought; one where you also get mad and do nothing but call people idiots?

 

Watch me display more morality and integrity in one statement then you and your whole hypocritical horde of Jesus freaks seem to display ever:

 

I am 19 years old. How old are you end3?

[chefranden]

I am saying Davka, that if God gave them absolute rights to there will, then how could there be any knowing of the outcome unless he retained some control of there will?

 

Omniscience is supposed to be a trait of Christian God. If you take that away, then you have a problem. The problem would be that God wouldn't know if any act on his part is a solution to the problem. Which, given the several salvations that Bible God has offered through the years, may be the case.

 

Without omniscience God doesn't know if Jesus will work or not. As far as I can tell Jesus has not worked. Therefore if God is real, you may be right about his not knowing.

 

If the fruit was a test to see if God made Adam and Eve well, then the test failed because God didn't fix the problem the test discovered. It is a very good idea to test a product to see if it will do what you want it to and withstand the abuse you will probably put it through. If the created product doesn't stand the test, then the proper response is to make changes to the model or scrap it and start over.

 

If you let the defective model continue through the replication process then you can't bitch at the product when it doesn't perform as desired. Well you can bitch, but it's still your fault.

[Guest end3]

See, you are the type bonehead that will bitch about most anything, much like you represent here. God enacted the law and executed justice, but no, that is the mean God that we don't like, yet you still advocate justice as something you wish to see. I am not making deferred adjudication up, it happens all the time. If you read, dumb ass, it says for certain offenses, but you bring up raping a child as your example. You are at best a stupid mother fucker. Get over it already you whining bitch. Everyone gets hurt, regardless of religion, and everyone displays hypocracy....except for you, who wants to rub someones nose in it. Good man you are....what are you, about 14?

 

I'm not one to point out name-calling. I usually don't give a rats ass what someone calls me. I'll use names here and there but only as flavour to an already well-established point.

 

You sir, have done ntohing now for me except call names....with nothing behind it.

 

What can't you see abou tthe fact that just because you want to say something is true, does not make it so? How are our beliefs true while everyone elses are fiction?

 

What I am doing here is displaying how what your holy book puts forth is not logical and makes no sense. Instead of focusing on that, you make baseless assertions and then get mad and start name-calling when we call you out on it.

 

Are you even capable of understanding what the original topic I am disecting is? Or does the brainwashing process just lead you instantly into a tangent train of thought; one where you also get mad and do nothing but call people idiots?

 

Watch me display more morality and integrity in one statement then you and your whole hypocritical horde of Jesus freaks seem to display ever:

 

I am 19 years old. How old are end3?

 

I have no ill will towards you Teabag....a few things as you seem to be moderately bright for age 19. If you want respectful discussion, you might want to start out with a respectful tone. Your original post was anything but...

 

You mentioned truth T, what makes your assessment of this world any more true than mine? General consensus? Science?

 

Grace T, look it up. You are smart enough to understand and have a lot of potential for 19.

[Guest end3]

Omniscience is supposed to be a trait of Christian God. If you take that away, then you have a problem. The problem would be that God wouldn't know if any act on his part is a solution to the problem. Which, given the several salvations that Bible God has offered through the years, may be the case.

 

They all offered a viable solution, but humanity, in general, failed.

 

If the fruit was a test to see if God made Adam and Eve well, then the test failed because God didn't fix the problem the test discovered. It is a very good idea to test a product to see if it will do what you want it to and withstand the abuse you will probably put it through. If the created product doesn't stand the test, then the proper response is to make changes to the model or scrap it and start over.

 

I believe that, but he took one of his best "test runs", Noah, and through the others away, no?

[chefranden]

[quote name='end3' date='26 July 2009 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1248661820'

I believe that, but he took one of his best "test runs", Noah, and through the others away, no?

 

Maybe so, but then let's stop calling him perfect. He may be super human for being able to make dirt walk, but he ain't perfect if he can't make perfection.

 

I may have mentioned this before, but it could be that Yahweh is a new hand at creation. First time I tried to make bread it had the consistency of a brick.

[Mriana]

Omniscience is supposed to be a trait of Christian God. If you take that away, then you have a problem. The problem would be that God wouldn't know if any act on his part is a solution to the problem. Which, given the several salvations that Bible God has offered through the years, may be the case.

 

They all offered a viable solution, but humanity, in general, failed.

 

Do you really think that little of the human race? I do not believe we failed. I think, to quote Spong again for he said it well, "We are not a fallen race. We are an emerging race." I like how he said we are emerging and think he hit the nail on the head, regardless if he is a retired bishop or not.

[Tealeaf]

 

I have no ill will towards you Teabag....a few things as you seem to be moderately bright for age 19. If you want respectful discussion, you might want to start out with a respectful tone. Your original post was anything but...

 

You mentioned truth T, what makes your assessment of this world any more true than mine? General consensus? Science?

 

Grace T, look it up. You are smart enough to understand and have a lot of potential for 19.

 

Oh here we go....typical Christian emotional plea's and complete dodging tactics.

 

Respectful discussion? Did you not read my first post? You know....the whole point of this thread? It was pretty tame. Yet I still left no room for the 'you're a meanie' dodge as I specifically instructed the readers to ignore everything I said except the three paragraphs between the *'s. It's right there for you to go over again. Please do it. It's called honesty and integrity.

 

Honesty and integrity....2 things Christians yet again display a complete lack of. You made comments regarding my supposed age. I honestly and politely stated my age and then asked you to state yours. Why didn't you? How old are you? What have you got to hide? Don't worry....no number will surprise me, or the other members probably.

 

I did not mention truth T....that's what your breed blatently do.

 

Why is it I don't talk of truth T? Because I don't assert any work, book or piece of knowledge is the defintive truth on anything for any legth of time. I will turn whatever I think about anything on it's head in a split second in light of newer verifiable evidence. The key is change. Something religion is completely against and renders it's victims completely unable to comprehend. Your worldview, in all of it's vast assertions, has been shown to be worng, circular and in this thread, nonsensical over and over again. Yet you still persist in simply saying "this is how it is because I and/or this book say it is". I will never do that.

 

How do you know I have potential.... I am pixels on a monitor to you. The only thing you have to go on is what I am typing here. Are you scared?

[Guest end3]

 

I have no ill will towards you Teabag....a few things as you seem to be moderately bright for age 19. If you want respectful discussion, you might want to start out with a respectful tone. Your original post was anything but...

 

You mentioned truth T, what makes your assessment of this world any more true than mine? General consensus? Science?

 

Grace T, look it up. You are smart enough to understand and have a lot of potential for 19.

 

Oh here we go....typical Christian emotional plea's and complete dodging tactics.

 

Respectful discussion? Did you not read my first post? You know....the whole point of this thread? It was pretty tame. Yet I still left no room for the 'you're a meanie' dodge as I specifically instructed the readers to ignore everything I said except the three paragraphs between the *'s. It's right there for you to go over again. Please do it. It's called honesty and integrity.

 

Honesty and integrity....2 things Christians yet again display a complete lack of. You made comments regarding my supposed age. I honestly and politely stated my age and then asked you to state yours. Why didn't you? How old are you? What have you got to hide? Don't worry....no number will surprise me, or the other members probably.

 

I did not mention truth T....that's what your breed blatently do.

 

Why is it I don't talk of truth T? Because I don't assert any work, book or piece of knowledge is the defintive truth on anything for any legth of time. I will turn whatever I think about anything on it's head in a split second in light of newer verifiable evidence. The key is change. Something religion is completely against and renders it's victims completely unable to comprehend. Your worldview, in all of it's vast assertions, has been shown to be worng, circular and in this thread, nonsensical over and over again. Yet you still persist in simply saying "this is how it is because I and/or this book say it is". I will never do that.

 

How do you know I have potential.... I am pixels on a monitor to you. The only thing you have to go on is what I am typing here. Are you scared?

 

Ahh, youth. I can't even remember a good place to start with you Teabag. Let me see if I can remember 19,....knew everything.....smartest I ever was.....bulletproof.....adults are stupid....oh yeah, now I remember....

 

Thanks for the bad memories..

[Mriana]

It's Tealeaf, not Teabag, End. No wonder I have been trying to figure out who or what is Teabag. You were corrupting his name. Is there a reason for this? Affection? I doubt that. A means to vent frustration with him? Probably. Brain malfunction? Happens to all of us. But I rather hear the reason from you.

[Guest end3]

It's Tealeaf, not Teabag, End. No wonder I have been trying to figure out who or what is Teabag. You were corrupting his name. Is there a reason for this? Affection? I doubt that. A means to vent frustration with him? Probably. Brain malfunction? Happens to all of us. But I rather hear the reason from you.

 

Teabag, meet Morona, Morona, Teabag. Perhaps you could get together and demand shit from one another. A match made in Hea....no, on earth.

[Mriana]

It's Tealeaf, not Teabag, End. No wonder I have been trying to figure out who or what is Teabag. You were corrupting his name. Is there a reason for this? Affection? I doubt that. A means to vent frustration with him? Probably. Brain malfunction? Happens to all of us. But I rather hear the reason from you.

 

Teabag, meet Morona, Morona, Teabag. Perhaps you could get together and demand shit from one another. A match made in Hea....no, on earth.

 

Alright Deadend, two can play that childish game. And once again, for an Xian you do use "sinfully foul language". I would love to see you get with my Xian relatives and use such language. They'd be trying to get you up to their altar and give your life over to the Lord. In other words, your brand of Xianity doesn't mean crap to me because it sets a bad example and shows how poorly behaved and imperfect Xians can be. Now IF you were striving to be a "perfect Xian" (Wesleyan doctrine/theology/dogma) you would not be using such language. And you sit at your comp typing posts telling us all about Xianity. PLEASE! You need to go head to head and toe to toe with my Evangelical relatives. You would come out of it, probably just as frustrated as you are right now with this board, IF they don't give you a shake down and up to their altar first. You have no clue about Xianity or the different POVs. All you have is your own dogma and it's really nasty.

[Deva]

You are still missing the point. Why does God need garden to fix it?

 

No, Adam and Eve walked with God before the "fall of man" as you would like to see it now, God and man, God and Ms. D walking as good creation.

 

Wander all around the point, it doesn't change it.

 

End3 please comprehend that I do not believe there was a fall of man, or a Garden of Eden. Nothing I say will convince you, obviously.

 

I thought we were discussing within the context of the story? You would like an explanation outside of the Biblical story?

 

No, I don't want an explanation outside of the Biblical story because there isn't one.

 

I actually like you, End3. But sometimes it hurts my brain trying to explain the contradictions of their so-called plan of salvation to Christians while pretending as if it were something real. So, I just gave up temporarily trying.

[chefranden]

Ahh, youth. I can't even remember a good place to start with you Teabag. Let me see if I can remember 19,....knew everything.....smartest I ever was.....bulletproof.....adults are stupid....oh yeah, now I remember....

 

Thanks for the bad memories..

 

 

Ya, I remember being smart like that. Let's see what did I do with my smarts? Oh ya! I signed up to go to war. Dang it's a wonder I ever made it another 40 years.

[Tealeaf]

Ahh, youth. I can't even remember a good place to start with you Teabag. Let me see if I can remember 19,....knew everything.....smartest I ever was.....bulletproof.....adults are stupid....oh yeah, now I remember....

 

Thanks for the bad memories..

 

Ah, old age.... (or however old you are, you still won't say). The time when one realizes the clock is really running out and life's not going to last forever. A dreadfully frightful thought. Overwhelming.... Especially when you feel you have no purpose in life. What better time to take up a cause that is everything you want it to be without ever actually having to do anything. Glory....you've found the lord; the blue pill.

 

Adults are stupid? I never said that. I think little of the ones who would resort to cop-outs and the 'I'm older than you so you just wouldn't know' high-horse send-off especially when dealing with raging hormone driven, invincible youth.

 

I feel sorry for those 'adults' that would use their age as a trump card anyway. The way I plan to do it, I'm going to be hanging on to my youth for as long as I can. It doesn't mean being immature or having no responsibility either (youth have a lot of that these days though, I started working when I was 14 and won't be done getting some education until at least 23..things cost a lot these says). What it means to me is not being depressed about life. The only real step up in maturity worth taking is realizing that you are going to die one day, there's nothing you can do about it and there's no evidence for anything more than this one life here and now. So make the best of it. One thing I definatley don't see a need for is wasting this one and only life I can be sure of on baseless claims about all sorts of other 'life'. I feel sorry for you if that's how you've come to look at the world and this life.

 

Not that this has anything to do with my OP. Which you have now seemed to have completely abandoned so I will take this as your admission you have no real explination for the bible-based Chrsitian message and worldview.

 

By the way, don't take treading on your particular worldview as a statement of arrogance from me. That's quite self-righteous of you. There's plenty more I'd go to town on just as much as yours. Although I could see how you'd take such offence if you undoubtabley think you're right or have some kind of truth....and that it's necessary to basically breath. (excuse me for thinking little of your beliefs....I've been living just fine without religious delusion for 19 years)

[Mriana]

If you ask me, I don't think deadend is an adult. IMO, his posts seem immature. Then again, there are some of us who don't grow up at all. Add to that, such immature thoughts aren't unusual for Fundamngelicals either. They accept everything the Church tells them without question, much like a child accepts what their parents say, until they reach mental maturity. Some people reach this mental maturity sooner than others of course, but I don't think deadend is one of them. He had mentally reached a deadend with his lack of questioning, yet he refuses to ask any questions, taking what the Church says as authority.

[Guest end3]

If you ask me, I don't think deadend is an adult. IMO, his posts seem immature. Then again, there are some of us who don't grow up at all. Add to that, such immature thoughts aren't unusual for Fundamngelicals either. They accept everything the Church tells them without question, much like a child accepts what their parents say, until they reach mental maturity. Some people reach this mental maturity sooner than others of course, but I don't think deadend is one of them. He had mentally reached a deadend with his lack of questioning, yet he refuses to ask any questions, taking what the Church says as authority.

 

Gee, I hope I can sleep tonight....

[Guest end3]

Not that this has anything to do with my OP. Which you have now seemed to have completely abandoned so I will take this as your admission you have no real explination for the bible-based Chrsitian message and worldview.

 

I like your stubbornness Tea, so I am going to give it another whirl, please try to connect what I am saying regarding your question before you respond.

 

I am going to assume you don't have children yet Tea....You seem to be hung up on why God doesn't just relieve his creation of their responsibility to the relationship between Him and them...."Snap my devine, sovereign fingers and fix the mess that I created for you poor humans." Is this right?

 

Let me try and put it in context that you can identify.....a new car or truck....see, I do remember 19. I hope that you would rather drive a truck Tea....I would worry about you if you chose a car.

 

Ok, now there is dad that gives his child the keys to the new truck and a full tank of gas....he says, "I hope you are happy, you are free to drive anywhere, but not down Satanic Drive, that road is bad for your truck".

 

The first think the kid does is get with his buddy and say heck, dad was a wuss in his day, let's go do Satanic Drive, because we know better than him.

 

And sure enough, the kids tore out the transfer case on the stump that they didn't see, so they hid the truck from dad.

 

Dad, hearing about the incident from the grapevine, says, "OK, son, no more truck for you".

 

So what is dad supposed to do?

 

1) Fix the truck and let them continue to drive, no charge?

 

2) Teach them responsibility and have them fix the truck themselves?

 

 

If you have time Tea, let's not jump to the ending, I will get there. Please just answer the question honestly.

[Mriana]

Question End: What is satanic? Or Rather define satanic as you see it, as it means to you.

[Tealeaf]

Not that this has anything to do with my OP. Which you have now seemed to have completely abandoned so I will take this as your admission you have no real explination for the bible-based Chrsitian message and worldview.

 

I like your stubbornness Tea, so I am going to give it another whirl, please try to connect what I am saying regarding your question before you respond.

 

I am going to assume you don't have children yet Tea....You seem to be hung up on why God doesn't just relieve his creation of their responsibility to the relationship between Him and them...."Snap my devine, sovereign fingers and fix the mess that I created for you poor humans." Is this right?

 

Let me try and put it in context that you can identify.....a new car or truck....see, I do remember 19. I hope that you would rather drive a truck Tea....I would worry about you if you chose a car.

 

Ok, now there is dad that gives his child the keys to the new truck and a full tank of gas....he says, "I hope you are happy, you are free to drive anywhere, but not down Satanic Drive, that road is bad for your truck".

 

The first think the kid does is get with his buddy and say heck, dad was a wuss in his day, let's go do Satanic Drive, because we know better than him.

 

And sure enough, the kids tore out the transfer case on the stump that they didn't see, so they hid the truck from dad.

 

Dad, hearing about the incident from the grapevine, says, "OK, son, no more truck for you".

 

So what is dad supposed to do?

 

1) Fix the truck and let them continue to drive, no charge?

 

2) Teach them responsibility and have them fix the truck themselves?

 

 

If you have time Tea, let's not jump to the ending, I will get there. Please just answer the question honestly.

 

 

No I wouldn't drive a truck. I don't like driving at all really. It's expensive and bad for the environemnt. I walk and bike 95% of my travel. Or bus. I live in urban Canada.... The only people who drive trucks are ones who actually need them for work....or people who think it's cool to drive a truck for some reason.

 

Your analogy is flawed in that it doesn't take into account everthing god is supposed to be to people and that the whole point is forgiveness. Regardless, your senario still fails as epically as the bibles message does. Observe:

 

What is the dad supposed to do you say?

 

Wellllllllll, the kids fucked up, so there HAS to be BRUTAL punishment so they learn their lesson; don't fuck with daddy. But daddy is good so he wants to forgive. But there still must be punishment. So in bible-fashion, daddy is going to go stick his tube-snake in mommy without her consent, have a newborn son, proceed to immediatley turn that son over to his other kid he wants to forgive, and when the first son kills the baby (as daddy had hoped) to appease his dads' demand for punishment, only then will the dad be able to say, "My child, you are forgiven".

 

What is WRONG with this picture? This is exactly what the bible proposes with the New Testament.

 

Notice how in option 2, you mention 'doing something for themselves'. That's great advice except....the bible teaches nothing of this. The only thing the bible advises one do is to accept Jesus. Why? Because if they don't, they bloody well burn forever. Great message there.

 

God wants to forgive --> demands punishment for appeasement --> creates son to be killed for his appeasement --> people kill son --> all is "paid" --> god can only now forgive --> he satisfied himself with the human incarnate of....himself

 

Weak.

 

 

(still didn't catch how old you were by the way)

[Guest end3]

Your analogy is flawed in that it doesn't take into account everthing god is supposed to be to people and that the whole point is forgiveness.

 

What is it that God is to be to everyone? And the whole point is forgiveness? Let's change it to a new Cannondale or whatever. The kid just spit in dad's eye. The dad was trying to provide happiness for the kid. How is that it is the dad's fault? "You didn't make me where I would listen".

 

The point is that the preservation of the bike is so that the kid can keep riding.....happiness. There would be no worth in the dad just continuing to fix the bike for the kid. Have you never met a child that had everything, how bratty they can be?

 

Wellllllllll, the kids fucked up, s there HAS to be BRUTAL punishment so they learn their lesson; don't fuck with daddy.

 

You got it partially right....the kids made a mistake, and there has to be a punishment so they can learn. And the lesson? Adam, you will have to work for your Cannondale. Eve, I am multipying your birth pains so you will remember the significance of bringing good vs bad into this world. Snake, I am dropping you to the ground, as you are the "lowest".

 

Notice how in option 2, you mention 'doing something for themselves'. That's great advice except....the bible teaches nothing of this.

 

Are you sure????

 

The only thing the bible advises one do is to accept Jesus. Why? Because if they don't, they bloody well burn forever. Great message there.

 

Let me introduce you to the word repent.

 

Main Entry: 1re·pent

Pronunciation: \ri-ˈpent\

Function: verb

Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French repentir, from Medieval Latin repoenitēre, from Latin re- + Late Latin poenitēre to feel regret, alteration of Latin paenitēre — more at penitent

Date: 14th century

intransitive verb

1: to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life

2 a: to feel regret or contrition b: to change one's mind

transitive verb

1: to cause to feel regret or contrition

2: to feel sorrow, regret, or contrition for

 

It is used numerous times in the bible.

 

This is all reasonable stuff T....

[NotBlinded]

Ahh, youth. I can't even remember a good place to start with you Teabag. Let me see if I can remember 19,....knew everything.....smartest I ever was.....bulletproof.....adults are stupid....oh yeah, now I remember....

 

Thanks for the bad memories..

 

Ah, old age.... (or however old you are, you still won't say). The time when one realizes the clock is really running out and life's not going to last forever. A dreadfully frightful thought. Overwhelming.... Especially when you feel you have no purpose in life. What better time to take up a cause that is everything you want it to be without ever actually having to do anything. Glory....you've found the lord; the blue pill.

 

Adults are stupid? I never said that. I think little of the ones who would resort to cop-outs and the 'I'm older than you so you just wouldn't know' high-horse send-off especially when dealing with raging hormone driven, invincible youth.

 

I feel sorry for those 'adults' that would use their age as a trump card anyway. The way I plan to do it, I'm going to be hanging on to my youth for as long as I can. It doesn't mean being immature or having no responsibility either (youth have a lot of that these days though, I started working when I was 14 and won't be done getting some education until at least 23..things cost a lot these says). What it means to me is not being depressed about life. The only real step up in maturity worth taking is realizing that you are going to die one day, there's nothing you can do about it and there's no evidence for anything more than this one life here and now. So make the best of it. One thing I definatley don't see a need for is wasting this one and only life I can be sure of on baseless claims about all sorts of other 'life'. I feel sorry for you if that's how you've come to look at the world and this life.

 

Not that this has anything to do with my OP. Which you have now seemed to have completely abandoned so I will take this as your admission you have no real explination for the bible-based Chrsitian message and worldview.

 

By the way, don't take treading on your particular worldview as a statement of arrogance from me. That's quite self-righteous of you. There's plenty more I'd go to town on just as much as yours. Although I could see how you'd take such offence if you undoubtabley think you're right or have some kind of truth....and that it's necessary to basically breath. (excuse me for thinking little of your beliefs....I've been living just fine without religious delusion for 19 years)

You know Tealeaf, your post just made me think of something...what if there is some sort of afterlife for all those believers but when they get there, they find out that this "life" is also just a test to an after-afterlife ad infinitum. Since there is no time in heaven, eternity means very little. Sorry about butting in, but that thought made me chuckle. They would be forever living for the future. If they're not fully alive now, I wonder why they think that maybe someday they will be? "There's a good time comin' be it ever so far away..." Talk about hell!