Christians - Fess Up To Your Beliefs

[Ouroboros]

Let's say, as you propose, that A&E were like children, and as we all once were, not in the "know" concerning good and evil......as God had created.

 

God provides the children with adult counsel. Do not "eat" of this children, least you die......as we do for our children. I say this in a literal and figurative context.

 

This in itself is not a fullproof plan for all the children to eat as the adult had perscribed. Some will side with the parent, and some won't.....as we can all testify.

That's right. And how do we learn to differentiate between right and wrong? By experience. We test and try and get responses and modify our behavior and change and learn. We don't automatically know what is right and wrong, we have to learn it. You can see that on children they've found that didn't get any adult direction in the early years, they are usually very noisy, impolite, can't speak, can't explain, scream, hit, and harm, just to get their own needs fulfilled. They don't understand the golden rule automatically. It is to most extent learned. "Tomas, if you want Peter to be nice to you, you better be nice to him first," is something a mom would tell her kid. Why? Why isn't that something God planted in Tomas brain?

 

So how does God teaches us about what is right and wrong? By vague information about that he might exist, but it can't be proven, because God can't be tested, and God refuse to do miracles, just because the idea is that we should believe ... just because... and if we don't then we are eternally punished. Hmm... that is not how I educate my kids. A good God would communicate CLEARLY when I do right or wrong. Not through a preacher, or through an ancient book which needs interpretation by a preacher, nor through LNC or another apologetic Christian. If God wants me to learn his ways, God should show himself and talk to me face to face, just like I do with my kids.

 

Think of it. I didn't send my kids to another country, and when they do wrong I write a letter to the kids' neighbor, and tell the neighbor to tell my kids they did wrong. No. I would interact, talk, communicate, direct with them. Words, spoken by me directly, and audible. They can hear me well, and see me, physcially, not mentallly. They see me with their real eyes, and hear me with their real ears, not just with their braincells using their imagination.

 

Question for you,

 

What would be an alternative?

See above. Real, physical, truly audible, visible, communication, in live, real person, is the alternative.

 

 

Mriana,

 

A&E is Adam and Eve.

[Guest end3]

Let's say, as you propose, that A&E were like children, and as we all once were, not in the "know" concerning good and evil......as God had created.

 

God provides the children with adult counsel. Do not "eat" of this children, least you die......as we do for our children. I say this in a literal and figurative context.

 

This in itself is not a fullproof plan for all the children to eat as the adult had perscribed. Some will side with the parent, and some won't.....as we can all testify.

That's right. And how do we learn to differentiate between right and wrong? By experience. We test and try and get responses and modify our behavior and change and learn. We don't automatically know what is right and wrong, we have to learn it. You can see that on children they've found that didn't get any adult direction in the early years, they are usually very noisy, impolite, can't speak, can't explain, scream, hit, and harm, just to get their own needs fulfilled. They don't understand the golden rule automatically. It is to most extent learned. "Tomas, if you want Peter to be nice to you, you better be nice to him first," is something a mom would tell her kid. Why? Why isn't that something God planted in Tomas brain?

 

So how does God teaches us about what is right and wrong? By vague information about that he might exist, but it can't be proven, because God can't be tested, and God refuse to do miracles, just because the idea is that we should believe ... just because... and if we don't then we are eternally punished. Hmm... that is not how I educate my kids. A good God would communicate CLEARLY when I do right or wrong. Not through a preacher, or through an ancient book which needs interpretation by a preacher, nor through LNC or another apologetic Christian. If God wants me to learn his ways, God should show himself and talk to me face to face, just like I do with my kids.

 

Think of it. I didn't send my kids to another country, and when they do wrong I write a letter to the kids' neighbor, and tell the neighbor to tell my kids they did wrong. No. I would interact, talk, communicate, direct with them. Words, spoken by me directly, and audible. They can hear me well, and see me, physcially, not mentallly. They see me with their real eyes, and hear me with their real ears, not just with their braincells using their imagination.

 

Question for you,

 

What would be an alternative?

See above. Real, physical, truly audible, visible, communication, in live, real person, is the alternative.

 

 

Mriana,

 

A&E is Adam and Eve.

 

 

Thank you for an answer Hans, but the scenerio I had put forth didn't put A&E in the Garden alone, nor did it place children here by themselves.

[Mriana]

Mriana,

 

A&E is Adam and Eve.

 

Oh OK. I think I like Arts and Entertainment better.

[Guest Davka]

Let's say, as you propose, that A&E were like children, and as we all once were, not in the "know" concerning good and evil......as God had created.

 

God provides the children with adult counsel. Do not "eat" of this children, least you die......as we do for our children. I say this in a literal and figurative context.

 

This in itself is not a fullproof plan for all the children to eat as the adult had perscribed. Some will side with the parent, and some won't.....as we can all testify.

 

Question for you,

 

What would be an alternative?

 

Pretty simple, really.

 

I have kids. When they were little, I did not place the Drano, liquid Bleach, and other poisonous household products on a table in the living room, wrap them up all nice and shiny with a big red bow, put some kool-aid flavoring in them and say "Ok kids, all the stuff on this table is very, very dangerous. Don't touch it. Don't drink it. Just forget it's here."

 

Why not?

 

Because, as any parent can tell you, that is a sure-fire way to get your kids to drink poison.

 

Instead, I put child-proof locks on all the cabinet doors and kept a close watch on my children, in order to keep them safe from things they did not understand.

 

Now, If I'm smart enough to figure that out, why isn't God?

 

EDIT: Oh, I also did not allow evil strangers to enter my home and try to talk my children into disobeying me. Don't ask me why, it just never occurred to me that they might need the guidance of an evil stranger.

[Ouroboros]

Thank you for an answer Hans, but the scenerio I had put forth didn't put A&E in the Garden alone, nor did it place children here by themselves.

I'm not sure what you mean? A&E were not alone in the garden? You mean, they could have learned from God when he was walking and talking with them? Sure. But how did he correct their mistake? How did they learn? But being expelled from the garden (which was not part of the threat), and they still lived 900 years (which doesn't fit with the "surely die" part of the rule), so I'm not sure what A&E learned, and what humanity learned. Think about it, if you were a father, would you treat your kids this way? Would you put a loaded gun in the living room table, and tell your 7 year old boy (who loves Halo) that it's a dangerous toy, he will surely die if he uses it? I wouldn't. A dangerous weapon would not be put close to a minor kid, if I knew the kid couldn't handle it. He has to learn slowly how to handle the dangers correctly. They have to be exposed to it, but you as the father, should know how to do it in steps. I wouldn't put a 3 year old next to a burning BBQ grill, and just wait and see if they get hurt. It's bad parenting.

 

(I see Davka is taking the same path.)

[chefranden]

Let's say, as you propose, that A&E were like children, and as we all once were, not in the "know" concerning good and evil......as God had created.

 

God provides the children with adult counsel. Do not "eat" of this children, least you die......as we do for our children. I say this in a literal and figurative context.

 

This in itself is not a fullproof plan for all the children to eat as the adult had perscribed. Some will side with the parent, and some won't.....as we can all testify.

 

Question for you,

 

What would be an alternative?

 

Supervision.

 

You keep trying to get God off the hook by picturing him as a human parent. God is not a human parent. God is God. That is he should know better than to leave his children pots unsupervised in a dangerous environment. A human parent could make the mistake of not supervising in a hostile environment, but not God. God would have to do it on purpose.

 

If a parent wants to preserve the life of her child she supervises until the child can act safely. When she sees the child trying to stick a fork into an electric outlet she doesn't wait until the child succeeds before she intervenes. However, she may be distracted by the UPS driver and not be there to intervene. God cannot be distracted. Granted the story is told as if God could be elsewhere and unaware of the children's plight. The story is told as if this is not true:

 

1 O LORD, you have searched me

and you know me.

 

2 You know when I sit and when I rise;

you perceive my thoughts from afar.

 

3 You discern my going out and my lying down;

you are familiar with all my ways.

 

4 Before a word is on my tongue

you know it completely, O LORD.

 

5 You hem me in—behind and before;

you have laid your hand upon me.

 

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,

too lofty for me to attain.

 

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?

Where can I flee from your presence?

 

8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;

if I make my bed in the depths, [a] you are there.

 

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,

if I settle on the far side of the sea,

 

10 even there your hand will guide me,

your right hand will hold me fast.

 

11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me

and the light become night around me,"

 

12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;

the night will shine like the day,

for darkness is as light to you.

 

Of course it is not true. It is just a theological hypothetical, because there is no God to have a hand on the far side of the sea.

[Mriana]

You keep trying to get God off the hook by picturing him as a human parent. God is not a human parent. God is God. That is he should know better than to leave his children pots unsupervised in a dangerous environment. A human parent could make the mistake of not supervising in a hostile environment, but not God. God would have to do it on purpose.

 

Because End doesn't want to grow up, so he stays in La-La Land and sends letters to an adult Santa Claus god who lives in the sky.

[chefranden]

Because End doesn't want to grow up, so he stays in La-La Land and sends letters to an adult Santa Claus god who lives in the sky.

 

This is fair in the Lions den, but it is not true of End. As far as End knows we are in La-La Land. End is here to find the objections and see if his faith can still make sense. As near as I can tell End wants to have a mature faith, not a Santa faith. I admire him for trying to do it.

[Mriana]

Because End doesn't want to grow up, so he stays in La-La Land and sends letters to an adult Santa Claus god who lives in the sky.

 

This is fair in the Lions den, but it is not true of End. As far as End knows we are in La-La Land. End is here to find the objections and see if his faith can still make sense. As near as I can tell End wants to have a mature faith, not a Santa faith. I admire him for trying to do it.

 

Humm... The verdict, for me at least, is still out on that one, but if he is striving for that, I recommend that he read John Shelby Spong and alike.

[Mriana]

Sounds New Agey.

[Mriana]

I'm glad I made someone laugh with that comment. Wasn't sure if I needed the laughing smiley face or not.

[Guest end3]

Crap,

 

I have been a Christian for several years now and just really weighing sovereignty of the Big Man vs free will....am gathering thoughts, and will return as usual.

[Ouroboros]

I have been a Christian for several years now and just really weighing sovereignty of the Big Man vs free will....am gathering thoughts, and will return as usual.

It's a tricky subject.

 

While you're thinking about it, perhaps you want to ponder this too:

 

If God can't stand sin, or sinners, in his presence--explaining why non-believers won't go to Heaven but will go to Hell instead--then how come Adam and Eve after they had sinned stood talking with God face to face? Can God choose when he can be in the presence of evil? Or was it not evil or sinful what they did?

[oddbird1963]

I have been a Christian for several years now and just really weighing sovereignty of the Big Man vs free will....am gathering thoughts, and will return as usual.

It's a tricky subject.

 

While you're thinking about it, perhaps you want to ponder this too:

 

If God can't stand sin, or sinners, in his presence--explaining why non-believers won't go to Heaven but will go to Hell instead--then how come Adam and Eve after they had sinned stood talking with God face to face? Can God choose when he can be in the presence of evil? Or was it not evil or sinful what they did?

 

But since god is supposedly omnipresent, isn't he always in the presence of sin? Doesn't this make omnipresence an unintelligible concept? It would also make holiness an unintelligible concept.

[chefranden]

But since god is supposedly omnipresent, isn't he always in the presence of sin? Doesn't this make omnipresence an unintelligible concept? It would also make holiness an unintelligible concept.

 

Which is why I say, "If God is everywhere you can't help but take a dump on him."

[chefranden]

Crap,

 

I have been a Christian for several years now and just really weighing sovereignty of the Big Man vs free will....am gathering thoughts, and will return as usual.

 

I started to write something and then realized I was just trying to do the following from memory. So you may as well see the real thing.

 

Understanding God's Plan

 

 

If you are a Christian, you are extremely familiar with "God's plan." This is the way that Christians traditionally explain things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents.

 

You can see how pervasive "God's plan" is by looking in Christian inspirational literature. For example, if we look in the book A Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren, we find this remarkable paragraph in Chapter 2:

 

Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

 

There is also this:

 

Regardless of the circumstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.

 

Under this view of the universe, God plans everything.

 

Take a moment and think about what Rick Warren said. Rick said, "He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." Let's examine one simple implication of this statement. What this means is that God pre-planned every abortion that has taken place on our planet.

 

If you think about this implication for a few moments, you will begin to realize how impossible "God's plan" is. If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child (God chose the "exact time" of the death, according to Rick Warren), the mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan. You can also see that all the Christians who are fighting against abortion are missing the point. They are actually fighting against God's plan, and their fight is completely futile. God is the all-powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in the United States through abortion. [ref] Each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God, so fighting against abortion is a totally wasted effort.

 

If you are a Christian, what you are thinking is, "God does not intend for us to perform abortions!" But if you believe what Rick is saying, then you are obviously incorrect. God is actually the direct cause of every abortion on earth. If you find that notion to be uncomfortable, I would agree with you. Unfortunately, that is the logical outcome of God's plan.

 

In order to better understand God's plan, let's look at one of the biggest global events that humans have ever witnessed: World War II. According to Encarta:

 

The human cost [of WWII], not including between 5.6 million and 5.9 million Jews killed in the Holocaust who were indirect victims of the war, is estimated to have been 55 million dead—25 million of those military and 30 million civilian.

 

In addition, according to Encarta:

 

* 61 countries participated in WWII

* 1.7 billion people participated in WWII

* 75% of all human beings alive at the time participated in WWII

 

World War II was obviously a major disaster -- perhaps the most horrific event the world has ever seen. It is safe to say that nearly every human being on planet Earth prayed to God that this war would end.

 

And don't forget Adolph Hitler. He was evil incarnate, and Hitler is well known for the atrocious things he did. It is interesting to look at Adolph Hitler in the context of prayer, and understand how Christians try to reconcile an all-loving, prayer-answering God with such a hateful man.

 

What I would like you to do right now is to consider this statement: "Hitler is part of God's Plan." Think about what Rick said:

 

He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

 

Rick also says:

 

God never does anything accidentally, and he never makes mistakes. He has a reason for everything he creates. Every plant and every animal was planned by God, and every person was designed with a purpose in mind.

 

If God has a divine plan for each of us, then he had a divine plan for Hitler too. It is when you stop to think about it deeply that the contradictions hit you...

 

Read the rest of it here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/gods-plan.htm

[Paul_S]

chefranden,

 

If there is no God. Those events of WWII would have still taken place. What plan or reason do you see for those events, there not being any God?

 

The Psalmist wrote, "The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, [and] seek God. They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one." (Ps 14:2,3.)

 

The Christian Apostle Paul, quoted it thus, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Rom 3:11, 12.)

 

Let's take a look at one of those OT atrocities. You pick it.

[Guest end3]

Crap,

 

I have been a Christian for several years now and just really weighing sovereignty of the Big Man vs free will....am gathering thoughts, and will return as usual.

 

I started to write something and then realized I was just trying to do the following from memory. So you may as well see the real thing.

 

Understanding God's Plan

 

 

If you are a Christian, you are extremely familiar with "God's plan." This is the way that Christians traditionally explain things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents.

 

You can see how pervasive "God's plan" is by looking in Christian inspirational literature. For example, if we look in the book A Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren, we find this remarkable paragraph in Chapter 2:

 

Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

 

There is also this:

 

Regardless of the circumstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.

 

Under this view of the universe, God plans everything.

 

Take a moment and think about what Rick Warren said. Rick said, "He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." Let's examine one simple implication of this statement. What this means is that God pre-planned every abortion that has taken place on our planet.

 

If you think about this implication for a few moments, you will begin to realize how impossible "God's plan" is. If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child (God chose the "exact time" of the death, according to Rick Warren), the mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan. You can also see that all the Christians who are fighting against abortion are missing the point. They are actually fighting against God's plan, and their fight is completely futile. God is the all-powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in the United States through abortion. [ref] Each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God, so fighting against abortion is a totally wasted effort.

 

If you are a Christian, what you are thinking is, "God does not intend for us to perform abortions!" But if you believe what Rick is saying, then you are obviously incorrect. God is actually the direct cause of every abortion on earth. If you find that notion to be uncomfortable, I would agree with you. Unfortunately, that is the logical outcome of God's plan.

 

In order to better understand God's plan, let's look at one of the biggest global events that humans have ever witnessed: World War II. According to Encarta:

 

The human cost [of WWII], not including between 5.6 million and 5.9 million Jews killed in the Holocaust who were indirect victims of the war, is estimated to have been 55 million dead—25 million of those military and 30 million civilian.

 

In addition, according to Encarta:

 

* 61 countries participated in WWII

* 1.7 billion people participated in WWII

* 75% of all human beings alive at the time participated in WWII

 

World War II was obviously a major disaster -- perhaps the most horrific event the world has ever seen. It is safe to say that nearly every human being on planet Earth prayed to God that this war would end.

 

And don't forget Adolph Hitler. He was evil incarnate, and Hitler is well known for the atrocious things he did. It is interesting to look at Adolph Hitler in the context of prayer, and understand how Christians try to reconcile an all-loving, prayer-answering God with such a hateful man.

 

What I would like you to do right now is to consider this statement: "Hitler is part of God's Plan." Think about what Rick said:

 

He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

 

Rick also says:

 

God never does anything accidentally, and he never makes mistakes. He has a reason for everything he creates. Every plant and every animal was planned by God, and every person was designed with a purpose in mind.

 

If God has a divine plan for each of us, then he had a divine plan for Hitler too. It is when you stop to think about it deeply that the contradictions hit you...

 

Read the rest of it here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/gods-plan.htm

 

I stopped reading at the pre-planned abortion sentence Chef. I wish to respond as follows: It appears possible that God did indeed plan the event of a birth, but the decisions of man were contrary to the Plan......and sometimes our decisions are not even understood by ourselves as being contrary to the plan, the consequence being many years of our natural life.........Satan is just that tricky.

[oddbird1963]

chefranden,

 

If there is no God. Those events of WWII would have still taken place. What plan or reason do you see for those events, there not being any God?

 

The Psalmist wrote, "The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, [and] seek God. They are all gone aside, they are [all] together become filthy: [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one." (Ps 14:2,3.)

 

The Christian Apostle Paul, quoted it thus, "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Rom 3:11, 12.)

 

Let's take a look at one of those OT atrocities. You pick it.

 

Paul_S,

 

How literally do you think you want to take Psalms 14? It is POETRY. Like when the singer sings the song, "Love hurts . . ." or another one "Love stinks. . . " and takes a negative stance on relationships. Would you want to develop a "doctrine" of love and relationships from these songs?

 

Are you really going to take Paul's cherry picking of poetic fragments of Hebrew scripture and construct a negative and defeatist view of humanity that makes little sense, has no real basis in human history (Adam and Eve ate a fruit = an entire universe of death, decay and suffering?) and is only solvable by appealing to yet another mythical event that has no verifiable basis in human history?

 

As far as WWII goes, there was no reason or plan behind it. People filled with malice and hatred towards those not like them perpetuated horrible atrocities upon the world. Advances in the technology of war allowed the death toll to rise to horrid proportions.

 

It might actually be a sign of personal growth and maturity if more people would stop looking for an ultimate reason or plan behind things and take responsibility for the things they can have some influence over.

 

Something to consider.

[Ouroboros]

But since god is supposedly omnipresent, isn't he always in the presence of sin? Doesn't this make omnipresence an unintelligible concept? It would also make holiness an unintelligible concept.

That's right.

 

The omni-* God is a philosophically conceptual God, based on arguments and reasoning, while the Biblical God doesn't really match up correctly. It's like philosophical theologians is making one big puzzle, and then they try to paint another picture on top of it.

 

But if we neglect the ideas of God being omnipresent for a moment, then the Bible still describe a situation when a pair of humans full of sin is standing in front of God. The Bible is definitely contradicting the premise.

[Abiyoyo]

But since god is supposedly omnipresent, isn't he always in the presence of sin? Doesn't this make omnipresence an unintelligible concept? It would also make holiness an unintelligible concept.

That's right.

 

The omni-* God is a philosophically conceptual God, based on arguments and reasoning, while the Biblical God doesn't really match up correctly. It's like philosophical theologians is making one big puzzle, and then they try to paint another picture on top of it.

 

But if we neglect the ideas of God being omnipresent for a moment, then the Bible still describe a situation when a pair of humans full of sin is standing in front of God. The Bible is definitely contradicting the premise.

 

 

God himself, or a portion of God. Is God himself overlooking the evil, or are his angelic host seeing the evil, or a destined fallen angel seeing the evil. I say this because even Satan himself, is respected among the heavenly host. See Jude and Michael's conversation with Satan. Job is also a depiction of Satan and God. If there is a fallen angel, could there be a stable angel?

 

If we we angels before being put on Earth, like the other angels, and lets say Satan did trick A&E to eat and see good and evil, this would have changed our countenance to that of Satan.

 

 

 

Could it be possible that Satan is an angelic portion of God that rules over sinful ways. Maybe he reports the unjust to God?

 

So, my conclusion is that we live in Satan's playground

[NotBlinded]

God himself, or a portion of God. Is God himself overlooking the evil, or are his angelic host seeing the evil, or a destined fallen angel seeing the evil. I say this because even Satan himself, is respected among the heavenly host. See Jude and Michael's conversation with Satan. Job is also a depiction of Satan and God. If there is a fallen angel, could there be a stable angel?

 

If we we angels before being put on Earth, like the other angels, and lets say Satan did trick A&E to eat and see good and evil, this would have changed our countenance to that of Satan.

I don't really follow this Abi. How would our countenance be that of Satan if we knew both good and evil? We would be like gods.

 

Could it be possible that Satan is an angelic portion of God that rules over sinful ways. Maybe he reports the unjust to God?

 

So, my conclusion is that we live in Satan's playground

Besides that little tiny question I have above, I pretty much agree to what you are saying, within mythology of course. What you are purposing is not much different than Hinduism and Taoism. Satan is a necessary opposite as is Shiva in Hinduism. They are aspects of the main godhead.

 

Taoism sees evil and good being in everything in some aspect.

 

There are underlying themes in the major mythologies and this is one of them. Christians seem to deny the necessary aspect of "evil".

 

It's not that Satan is being a tattletale, he is just doing the work he was hired for.

[Abiyoyo]

 

I don't really follow this Abi. How would our countenance be that of Satan if we knew both good and evil? We would be like gods.

 

Yeap I think we got the bad end of the deal, being wrapped in this flesh junk. I basically see us as the same as Satan and angels like Michael, or Gabriel, except we disobeyed God, and now must toil the earth and have birth pains

 

 

Besides that little tiny question I have above, I pretty much agree to what you are saying, within mythology of course. What you are purposing is not much different than Hinduism and Taoism. Satan is a necessary opposite as is Shiva in Hinduism. They are aspects of the main godhead.

 

Taoism sees evil and good being in everything in some aspect.

 

There are underlying themes in the major mythologies and this is one of them. Christians seem to deny the necessary aspect of "evil".

 

It's not that Satan is being a tattletale, he is just doing the work he was hired for.

 

I found an interesting thing a while back. The angel Emma-O that a Todd Bentley claims is an angel from God, with which he goes on to describe. Many people are saying this is part of the God of Death from Hinduism. There supposedly was an angel named Emma-O that is described the same as Todd's angel.

[NotBlinded]

I found an interesting thing a while back. The angel Emma-O that a Todd Bentley claims is an angel from God, with which he goes on to describe. Many people are saying this is part of the God of Death from Hinduism. There supposedly was an angel named Emma-O that is described the same as Todd's angel.

I looked into Todd and Emma-O and you should be ashamed that you made my eyes burn right out of their sockets.

 

Honestly though, he seems a little whacked!

 

The important thing about mythological symbols is being able to turn them inwards on oneself and not as an actual occurance in reality somewhere out there. I was just stating the underlying themes in many religions have evil as a necessary aspect because it was recognized that the appreciation of good comes from knowing "evil". These are all internal understandings.

[RationalOkie]

 

The omni-* God is a philosophically conceptual God, based on arguments and reasoning, while the Biblical God doesn't really match up correctly. It's like philosophical theologians is making one big puzzle, and then they try to paint another picture on top of it.

 

But if we neglect the ideas of God being omnipresent for a moment, then the Bible still describe a situation when a pair of humans full of sin is standing in front of God. The Bible is definitely contradicting the premise.

 

"If God is all-present, it doesn't need us to be in certain places for certain things; if God is all-knowing, then we don't need to pray in order to tell it our feelings and wishes, if God is perfectly good and just, then our prayers asking it to help others are pointless, God will help those that deserve it with or without our persuasive attempts. The idea of God is pretty much incompatible with all religious dogma and practice!" Source

 

fixed typo on edit