Discussion For Ex-Xians: Limiting Christian Access Here

[Ouroboros]

Okay.

 

How should I approach this?

 

On one side I have a non-Christian member who feels he was attacked by a Christian.

 

On the other side I have a Christian who feels he was wrongly accused and did not intend to harm or offend anyone.

 

And then I have members who wish the board to become more strict in its policies and enforce them with more rigor.

 

But then I also have members who wants the board to allow people of many different opinions and views to be able to discuss freely, without a board police kicking them out for offending the set standards.

 

It's a tricky situation. So many ideas, views, opinions, beliefs, thoughts...

 

Without putting up a set of different theoretical scenarios, I will just state how I view things should be:

 

Here comes the long list of changes:

 

1) we will not change a thing.

 

2) Christians will still be able to post everywhere, except Testimonies, and to some degree Life.

 

3) Members still would report if they think something is out of order or inappropriate, and then they just have to wait patiently until a moderator has time to deal with it.

 

4) The moderator makes a judgment call how to handle the situation, because they have a certain experience and feel for what this website is about.

 

And finally, when it comes to Yoyo/Abiyoyo, I have no problem with this guy being here. I don't agree with his belief, but he's pretty harmless. If someone is hurt by what he said, it's more likely because of misunderstanding than he had intent of malice. He's not a fundamentalist/extremist. And at times he actually took our side in discussions with other Christians. How many Christians do we see do that? Give him a chance. He's not evil.

[Ameen]

 

And finally, when it comes to Yoyo/Abiyoyo, I have no problem with this guy being here. I don't agree with his belief, but he's pretty harmless. If someone is hurt by what he said, it's more likely because of misunderstanding than he had intent of malice.

 

Wrong.

 

He consciously, sadistically chose to continue baiting and mocking me even after I repeatedly asked him to stop and explained how unhealthy the situation was for me as someone with OCD and as someone who has been abused. That is indeed intent of malice.

 

This was not a misunderstanding. Abiyoyo acted like the schoolyard bully and took on someone he perceived as vulnerable so that he could look cool in front of his friends and have a good laugh. Then he accused me of playing a gay card because the original reason for our unfortunate interaction was his pouncing into a thread on sexual identity and trying to be macho in his Christian take on gay issues. What's more, he does not even get the very deep, personal level on which he has attacked me and how I still carry that anger.

 

This board is about healing. I repeat what I said in my response to nivek. So you handled it on the board. Whoopee! Now what about me? What do I do? How do I heal? That's why I am writing in this thread. I cannot get past having a Christian do the same thing Christians have always done to me in a place set up for ex-Christians.

 

Maybe you find a Christian sadist's behavior acceptable, but I don't.

 

You won't shut me up that easily, not even if you are a mod. I don't accept that from Christians or from those who defend them. If I did, I'd still be in church praying. Without my self-respect I am nothing, and I cannot have self-respect if I am silent on this issue. How can anyone expect me to be silent?

 

SILENCE = DEATH

 

This is how it will end: You will either stop the Christian from hurting ex-Christians here or get so sick of me that you will ban me. I spent years being abused by Christians, and I need my self-respect more than I need your board. As of today I am like nivek (whom I admire): I don't care what you think of me or how much I piss you off. I will not be silenced.

 

With atheist pride and gay pride even if I must be a community of one,

 

Ameen

[Loren]

Ameen, the causes of how you feel and think about this situation are valid causes. Do speak your mind. Continue to do so.

 

I would like to point something out, however. Regardless of the low opinion I have of Abiyoyo, or what I said about him, he still hasn't posted a response in this forum, and I appreciate that. (Edit: I should add that, in fairness, I have no choice but to honor that.)

 

Taking a deep breath does not equate with capitulation.

 

I'm going to back off from posting, now and just mod for a while.

 

Loren

[Legion]

This is how it will end: You will either stop the Christian from hurting ex-Christians here or get so sick of me that you will ban me.

Ameen I’m pretty sure the mods have spoken with Abiyoyo and he probably knows now to treat you with a bit more care.

 

What more do you want?

[Ouroboros]

Ameen,

 

Yoyo has been a member with us for as long as I have been here. He's a Christian, that is true, but he's not the ordinary hardcore fundamentalist or racist bigot Christian at all. He's an outcast among Christians and need this place. It's true that he has other opinions than you and me, but truth to be told, I can't count how many other members I disagree with here. We don't think the same. We are not the same. Conflicts will arise for differences of opinion. And we will get into heated exchanges. That's the horror, but also the beauty of it.

 

We try to keep the board open for anyone. We try to keep free speech here. But it's not easy, since we have people from the most extreme views participating. Mostly, the only reason why we really ban anyone is because they are disruptive in general, not because of what they believe, think, or say.

 

Ameen, you've been with us for some time too, and you deserve to be here as well. But you have to understand that it would be impossible for us to begin creating laws, rules, and policies, and then have a whole team of moderators reinforcing them 24x7, just to protect the non-Christians. And what is a Christian or non-Christian anyway? We have some members who believe in God, and kind of are half-way between Christian and non-Christian, what should we do about them? Should they be allowed or denied access to this board? What would be the criteria for access, and how would we test it?

 

You have to understand, we are just a few moderators, who do not cover the website every awake minute of the day. We're not paid employees. We do this on our spare time. We have families. We work. We go to school. And much, much more. With all this in mind, we're trying to keep a decent website going for you to be on and express yourself, and sort out every kink in the system when the problems arise.

 

What can be done? I don't think we can really do anything about this issue. My decision is that Yoyo stays (unless any other moderator think he should go). And you are more than welcome to stay too, and I think you should. But... somehow you have to accept how the website works, accept that Christians will in the future respond to your posts, and you have to be willing to handle it. I'm sorry, but that's what it all comes down to.

[Loren]

My decision is that Yoyo stays (unless any other moderator think he should go).

I completely agree with that.

And you are more than welcome to stay too, and I think you should.

And that.

But... somehow you have to accept how the website works, accept that Christians will in the future respond to your posts, and you have to be willing to handle it. I'm sorry, but that's what it all comes down to.

And that.

[Ameen]

I never asked for Abiyoyo to be banned. Not once. Reread everything I have written in this thread and the one in which I was attacked plus my private messages to the moderators. If anything, in the thread in which he attacked me I did say that he might need the board.

 

What I want, and have expressed over and over, is for Christians to understand that this board is for us, not for them, and that while they are permitted here they must understand why many of us need a board where Christians don't mouth off to us the way he did to me. (Note my new signature, which makes this clear to them.) What I want is for this place to be safe, to be a place where we can heal.

 

I also want Abiyoyo to understand why what he did, attacking someone he saw as vulnerable out of sadistic pleasure, is wrong on a board set up for vulnerable people already ripped apart by Christians. I see nothing that indicates he gets that. If he is here to grow as a person, then that is something he needs to understand. Let him be a Christian (Christian definition of Christian) and own up to what he did. Let him 'repent' and 'sin no more'.

 

This is my stand, and I have not wavered from it. It is frustrating that the moderators still cannot hear me.

 

I wish I could just put Abiyoyo on "ignore," as many have suggested, but then I would be running from the bully like the scared Christian I once was. If I am silent, he will do it again and again to others; this thread has made it clear that I am not the only one who needs the safety of an ex-Christian community free of Christian sadism in order to heal. Again, I do not want Abiyoyo banned, but his antics must stop here and now.

 

Tell me, am I really that unreasonable?

[Ouroboros]

I never asked for Abiyoyo to be banned. Not once. Reread everything I have written in this thread and the one in which I was attacked plus my private messages to the moderators. If anything, in the thread in which he attacked me I did say that he might need the board.

Good.

 

What I want, and have expressed over and over, is for Christians to understand that this board is for us, not for them, and that while they are permitted here they must understand why many of us need a board where Christians don't mouth off to us the way he did to me. (Note my new signature, which makes this clear to them.) What I want is for this place to be safe, to be a place where we can heal.

Abiyoyo knows this. I've been on his case many times over the years, and he knows very well he is an outsider here. But he likes it here, because we're up-front with what we believe and think.

 

I also want Abiyoyo to understand why what he did, attacking someone he saw as vulnerable out of sadistic pleasure, is wrong on a board set up for vulnerable people already ripped apart by Christians. I see nothing that indicates he gets that. If he is here to grow as a person, then that is something he needs to understand. Let him be a Christian (Christian definition of Christian) and own up to what he did. Let him 'repent' and 'sin no more'.

Well, I have a little problem with your statement that he attacked you out of sadistic pleasure, because first of all, I re-read the posts and I still can't really see that he did. He posted a response to Mongo. His view had nothing to do with sexuality, but about expression. And Abi had this view based on hearing the interview with the boy himself. It's true that the underlying reason is sexuality or transgender issues, but Abiyoyo's opinion was based on his impression of the actual words from the boy. And furthermore, Abiyoyo doesn't resent gay, lesbians, homosexuals, or any other inclination, since (to my understand) he both got family and friends which are gay. And the issue here is that you chose to respond to Abiyoyo's post which was a response to Mongo, and I still fail to see what escalated to this conflict. I have even received reports from other gay members on this website who also fails to see the problem with Abi's posts. Exactly what part is it that is causing this? What exactly did Yoyo say that was so bad?

 

The high-school my kids go to has strict regulations regarding dress-code too. They won't allow T-shirts with prints (of any kind). They have to sign a paper before they start each semester. And this is a public school. They do it to prevent conflicts at school, and they have the right to do it. This is what Abiyoyo is arguing. Regardless if I agree to the whole story or not, he is correct that the school has this right.

 

This is my stand, and I have not wavered from it. It is frustrating that the moderators still cannot hear me.

We hear you loud and clear, the problem is how we should solve it.

 

I have talked to Abiyoyo several times, and he is sorry for hurting or offending anyone, but he still don't understand what he said that is so upsetting.

 

And in regards to the "shaking hands" in the shout box, he said it because that was what he was feeling at the moment. He feels like he is being attacked now, and everyone is gathering up a mob against him. And he found it ironic that he was the one feeling the same thing you felt last week. He didn't mock you. He didn't taunt you (since his response wasn't to you). He is trying to avoid you and not respond to you. So I suggest that same to you: stay away from him.

 

I wish I could just put Abiyoyo on "ignore," as many have suggested, but then I would be running from the bully like the scared Christian I once was. If I am silent, he will do it again and again to others; this thread has made it clear that I am not the only one who needs the safety of an ex-Christian community free of Christian sadism in order to heal. Again, I do not want Abiyoyo banned, but his antics must stop here and now.

The antics? So far, Abiyoyo has not posted anything in response to the accusations against him. So far, he is staying out of this business, and from posting overall in the website. Or do you mean that the antics has to do with us now discussing this issue? Is it antics that I am presenting my view on this problem?

 

Besides, if you don't want to put Abiyoyo on ignore, then perhaps you have to have a little bit thicker skin. I have been called everything under the sky. I have had Christians haunting and taunting me on this website. I even had non-Christians do it. It's part of the life here. You just have to get used to it and learn how to deal with it.

 

Tell me, am I really that unreasonable?

Yes and no.

 

I think this whole ordeal is way over-played.

 

I understand your frustration and irritation, but I don't agree on how huge this issue had to become.

[sarahgrace]

I just want to say how much I respect everyone in this thread. Really, kudos everyone. I love how reasonable this community is, and I love the fact that on page 4 of this topic, it hasn't degenerated to name-calling.

 

Ameen, I wanted to ask you about your feeling that putting Abiyoyo on ignore is running away from a bully. Why do you feel this way? If it's ok by you, I'd like to share my thoughts on the matter. I don't see it as running away at all. I see it as proactively protecting yourself from triggers that you know will be harmful to you. I generally stay out of the Lions' Den forum because the "debates" just infuriate me. I end up angry for days, and it's not good for me. So I stay away. Likewise, Abiyoyo is not good for you right now. I don't see that as a sign of weakness on your part at all... it just shows me that like me, you have wounds that are still healing and shouldn't be aggravated. There is no shame in protecting your wounds, and letting yourself heal on your own terms. It takes courage and strength to choose your battles, and I think that making a judicious use of the ignore feature in this case would be a really wise and proactive choice for you. You're not running away from a bully, you're walking away from a conflict that is totally not worth it, with your dignity intact.

 

My absolute NUMBER ONE rule for living since I left the faith has been to always be kind to myself first, and then to others. It's worked well for me.

 

just sayin'.

 

You're an outstanding, inspiring individual, Ameen. And I wish you ALL the best.

[Ouroboros]

Sarah,

 

That's a very good point. It's not shameful to put someone on ignore. It's just like you're saying, it's a method to avoid the triggers the emotional reaction. (I have mine too, but unfortunately, as a moderator I can't put people on ignore, even if I want to. )

[Ameen]

Most important point: I continue to let you know why this is so wrong because I feel you are not hearing my words. You see the letters on the screen and hear their sounds in your heads, but you don't hear their meaning. I feel as if I am on a Christian board right now. Instead of "Why are you going on? Why are you making this a big issue? Jesus wants you to accept this and if you don't you will go to hell. Who cares if you are still feeling alienated, angry, hurt, unwanted, and abused?" I am getting "Why are you going on? Why are you making this a big issue? We want you to accept that we took care of it, and who cares if you are still feeling alienated, angry, hurt, unwanted, and abused?"

 

------------------

 

I am glad that I am still welcome here and that some of you get pieces of what I am saying. Still, I feel very, very alone, the way Christians have always made me feel.

 

Let me point out that out of respect I am staying out of Abiyoyo's thread on his wife the way he is staying out of this one,

 

@ sarahgrace: I have no intention of stooping to name calling, so you need not worry. Regardless of how furious I am, Abiyoyo is still a human being. I cursed him out in the other thread after repeatedly telling him to leave me alone because I was unable to understand why he could not understand that I wanted to be left alone. His actions were just not logical, and I still don't understand them--except within a Christian context.

 

Now, the ignore button... As a Christian I had to do mental gymnastics and ignore all the logic screaming inside me. I had to ignore Christians who made anti-Semitic remarks, anti-gay remarks, and anything else simply because they were 'saved' and speaking 'God's opinion'. I respect that you and others, HanSolo included, feel I would not be a coward for hitting the ignore button, but I feel I would be. I have learned never to trust others to do what I can do for myself.

 

@ HanSolo: "The antics" = The events of last week, not anything new.

 

I am glad that you understand that under no circumstances do I want Abiyoyo banned. Ironically, if you banned him, I would be forced to defend him (which I hope never happens, as that is not a position I want to be in). I did, after all, defend Davka, whom I like and wish were still here. (Let's not go into whether he was banned or left of his own free will... That's a topic for a different thread.) Banning serves no purpose--just as eternal hell serves no purpose. Punishment is meted out to teach, not so the wronged can gloat.

 

In other words, has Abiyoyo learned anything? You say he has. If he is experiencing now what I experienced, perhaps that can give him a clue about how he made me feel.

 

It saddens me to no end that my fellow gay members don't see what happened, and it just means that I really am a community of one. In my experience off the Internet, gays stand by each other. Oh well.

 

The issue, once again, is that Abiyoyo, a Christian on an ex-Christian board, posted in a dismissive way in a thread about sexual identity. This is, quite simply, what Christians always do. They are trained to shoot down the other person and anything that person says in order to anger the other person and start a debate. In that debate they attempt to witness. In their church training, they are taught to bait the person and ignore all feeling; only argue Jesus's opinion since that is all that matters.

 

Even if Abiyoyo was not doing this in order to witness, he was, on some level, acting on his Christian-based idea that it is all right to dismiss any issue pertaining to sexual identity and sexual orientation. I called him on that, as he came on with a snotty "Well that's great for you" to Mongo and procceded to post drivel. I countered his "Get over it" with the same final words in my post and said why I, a person on an ex-Christian board, resented this anti-sexual-identity drivel from a Christian on a board not set up for him.

 

If an ex-Christian had posted the very same thing as Abiyoyo, I would not have cared. Differing opinions are good. But I, for one, do not allow Christians to dismiss the needs of LGBT people. Not under any circumstances. He posted his drivel as a Christian, and as a gay male I was obliged to counter it.

 

He then posted that he resented me back and tried to throw my post back in my face, and I reminded him that this was an ex-Christian board... Things escalated after he told me to grow up, which is exactly what Christians used to tell me when I expressed doubts about the religion I was trapped in. Children rebel and need to have their rebellion beaten out of them; adults accept Jesus with open hearts... (I don't believe that any more, by the way--but that's where I came from.)

 

Abiyoyo then compared a person needing to express his sexual identity to getting a tattoo--another Christian tactic since they like to minimize the horrors gays have endured by claiming that Christians are persecuted and cannot do this and this and that...

 

In other words, he used the same Christian reasoning with which so many have been brainwashed, and I found it inappropriate on a board where many gay people had been traumatized by members of his foul religion and many people of all sexual orientations are trying to heal.

 

I called for a moderator (in large letters in my next post) to prevent the thread from escalating, and that was a clear signal to Abiyoyo to stop posting until we had a mediator to sort out the issue. He did not stop.

 

Then HanSolo stepped in and Abiyoyo created a thread for debate on the topic in the appropriate section. I had no objection to that and, in fact, posted on the thread in question

 

I am glad a new thread has been started in an appropriate debating venue. I will stay out of it, as I don't want to get into it with a Christian.

 

Thank you, HanSolo, for seeing my point.

 

And thank you, Neon Genesis, for what you wrote as well.

 

I am sorry, Burnedout and everyone else (moderators included), for temporarily hijacking this thread, as I hate drama as much as the next person. I needed to state something I saw that did not feel right.

 

This was another clear signal to Abiyoyo that the issue was closed. The issue that I did not feel was right--a Christian taking on a non-Christian in a non-debate thread--had been resolved.

 

But Abiyoyo continued to attack me in the non-debate thread. The man is clueless!

 

After telling him several times to back off and that this was very unhealthy for me considering what Christians had done to me in the past--and I used the words "abuse" and "OCD," more clear signals--he just kept at it and kept at it like a schoolyard bully, enjoying the pain he was inflicting on someone else.

 

At that point several other people came to my aid, and for that I am grateful. At least some people saw what he was doing and why it was wrong.

 

All this is why I feel that I write and write, but my words are not being heard.

[Ameen]

Regarding the lynch mob mentality that Abiyoyo feels is forming... I do not in any way want him to feel the board hates him or that he should leave. Perhaps this new thread will draw attention to that point, as not everyone is going to read my long posts carefully. The only thing addressed in this thread is why Abiyoyo should be embraced and loved on the board:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/34105-abiyoy-should-be-embraced-and-loved-not-banned/page__pid__495683__st__0entry495683

 

 

 

 

Note: I typed "Abiyoy" and not "Abiyoyo" in the thread title. The board won't let me fix it. Will a moderator fix it?

[Neon Genesis]

 

 

Now, the ignore button... As a Christian I had to do mental gymnastics and ignore all the logic screaming inside me. I had to ignore Christians who made anti-Semitic remarks, anti-gay remarks, and anything else simply because they were 'saved' and speaking 'God's opinion'. I respect that you and others, HanSolo included, feel I would not be a coward for hitting the ignore button, but I feel I would be. I have learned never to trust others to do what I can do for myself.

 

 

If it's not cowardly to restrict Christian activity in the News forum so you don't have to see Abiyoyo's posts anymore, why is it cowardly to put him on ignore when they both have the same results? I'm not saying you're being cowardly because I don't think putting him on ignore is cowardly. I'm just trying to help come up with a solution that might help. I hear your concerns, Ameen, I'm just trying to help you find an alternative solution if the solution that you proposed can't be worked out. It's like it's not that I don't hear what you're saying; I'm just trying to suggest an alternative as the next best thing.

[Vigile]

It saddens me to no end that my fellow gay members don't see what happened, and it just means that I really am a community of one. In my experience off the Internet, gays stand by each other. Oh well.

 

Perhaps that means it's a matter of perception

 

I don't see that people here aren't understanding you Ameen. I see that they are disagreeing with you on matters of perception. If you feel alone on this isn't that a good reason to examine more deeply your own perspective on the matter? I agree with posters that told you that your own feelings are your own and you don't need to apologize for how you feel. At the same time, I think it is possible to let one's own feelings run riot to an unhealthy degree. Moreover, even a forum like this that is designed to give xians a safe place to heal one has to make compromises. This is the case because different individuals have different needs and many times those needs are opposing.

 

After reading through this for a few days I can't help but get the feeling that you are still feeling unsatisfied, not because the mods aren't changing any rules for you, but rather because not one person has presented that they fully feel exactly as you do about how things went down. People here are really trying to be empathetic, but isn't it a bit unreasonable to demand perfect empathy from someone?

 

If I'm misreading you here, perhaps you can tell us in one or two sentences exactly what it is you want to happen. As I see it, there are forums protecting you from any xian involvement already, so that's done. You have people here who care about you and are trying to understand you, so that's done. You don't have anyone telling you that you are 100% right. Is that what you need? (I don't mean for this question to be as harsh as it sounds. It's not rhetorical IOW).

 

The issue, once again, is that Abiyoyo, a Christian on an ex-Christian board, posted in a dismissive way in a thread about sexual identity. This is, quite simply, what Christians always do. They are trained to shoot down the other person and anything that person says in order to anger the other person and start a debate. In that debate they attempt to witness. In their church training, they are taught to bait the person and ignore all feeling; only argue Jesus's opinion since that is all that matters.

 

And others on this board most likely disagree with him on this as they do with many other xian thoughts and behaviors. Many of us find these opinions offensive. Personally, I find equally offensive the idea that we have to censor and clean up every single offensive opinion on this website. That would be cutting the nuts off the site and making us fascist to a large degree. Moreover, as I pointed out above, different people have different needs, many times they are opposing.

 

Where for you this may trigger past feelings that are oppressive. In others it might stir up anger that gives them courage and that in turn helps them face their demons and helps them heal. In others it might do something else altogether. Who can know? Is it right for the board to protect your feelings and needs primarily when it may come at the expense of the needs of others? Again, who can know? What I do know is many, many, many members of this board have a consensus about keeping as much freedom of speech alive on this forum as is humanly possible without letting it get completely out of hand. People are always going to hold opinions you find offensive Ameen. There isn't such a place that you can go to fully protect yourself from this, nor do I feel that it is healthy to try. JMO

[Ameen]

Just a warning...

 

I do want people to read what I wrote before and what I am writing now, but keep in mind that the "O" in "OCD" stands for "obsessive." If I were not obsessive, I would have a different diagnosis.

 

I will indeed go on and on and could conceivably post beyond page 500 of this thread, but I doubt anyone else here has the patience for that. I will keep responding, and will do so gladly and eagerly, but if you are tired of me don't respond to me. When I see a response it means I should respond (unless I have been told not to respond). When I see no response it means I should not respond.

 

Also, if any moderator is getting offended by this thread and wants to close it, I won't say boo. Personally, I have not even said half of what I want to say about the subject (believe it or not!) and can continue without batting an eyelash. But I also recognize that others may not view that kindly.

 

@ Phanta: I wish I knew what I could do to stop feeling so angry about what happened, just as I wish I could tell you what you could do to help me. I cannot. This one is completely new. I cannot even tell you how much of it is OCD, and this is coming from someone who does volunteer work with some of the most bizarre OCD imaginable as suffered by others--and who used to have some bizarre OCD himself (exacerbated by Christianity, naturally).

 

I said over and over last week that I wanted this to stop, and I was not listened to. Now I am stuck with emotional fallout I struggle to understand (hence my posting about my feelings, what the attack reminded me of, what I believe, what gay issues are important, etc.). Unfortunately, I have only just begun to scratch the surface of understanding what I am feeling.

 

Fortunately, I have had my students' papers, my lesson plans, and my own homework in Spanish, Yiddish, and vocal music to keep me busy. I keep myself on a tight leash so I will continue to be productive.

 

In this economic climate, we may have to cancel the November concert (despite all my practicing), and there will certainly be more cuts in my university as well. I may even have to send out my CV again even though I have for years been happily settled in the first working environment that has been perfect for me. Everything should be fine through the summer, but the status of fall 2010 is uncertain. (Unfortunately, as luck would have it, that's when the union contract runs out too and by when it has to be renegotiated.) And I am 44, competing against much younger people... And I have no god to watch out for me. Or for my parents and sister and their multiple health problems/the things I do to help them. I once had a church community, but now I have nothing--not even this site given what occurred last week. I can never feel safe here again, and I doubt people will ever look at me the same way again.

 

Suffice it to say I needed the Christian attack like I need a Christian hole in the head.

 

@ Neon Genesis: It's a good question. To my mind (and you need not agree), the challenge and attack have already occurred and cannot be taken back. To ignore them is to cower in a corner and expect someone else to fight my battle. We minorities have to fight our own battles since our allies (with notable exceptions) are fickle at best. On the other hand, preventitive measures (such as closing certain sections to Christians) are not cowardly because they occur before an actual attack is made. They are also a sign of strength and support, a way for us to make sure that we can say "Never Again!"

 

@ Vigile: Maybe. I admit that my trust in anyone on this board was low to begin with because of what I experienced in Christianity. I don't trust easily. Given what happened last week, it is even lower. I just don't know any of you and have never met any of you. Also, I have only been here since January. Even in my real life, that would not be enough time for me to know someone. When I talk about my two close friends, I am talking since 1992 (graduate school) in one case and 1977 (7th grade) in the other.

 

By the way, I HAVE compromised. I said I would no longer post in the News and Current Evets section for any reason, which means this situation will not occur again.

 

Maybe this is a male vs. female communication thing. I see a lot of males coming at me as problem solvers, but what I really want is empathy--which I have gotten from some women here. This sounds so sexist, and I apologize for that. What I really mean is I want the men to be less stereotypical macho in their approach. You can't "fix" me. Hear me.

 

One of two sentences? I want to know that people understand why it was so wrong for this event to have occurred on an ex-Christian board and why, if it had not been this site or had it not been a Christian atatcker, I would not have been phased by the very same words. I want the mods in particular to undertsand that for many of us (myself included) there is no other place where we can understand how Christianity and other issues misshaped and stunted us and grow from that commiseration and understanding--and that Christians must understand that.

 

I am sure people will tell me that I have been told various permutations of that.

 

Told.

 

Only told.

 

Like Christians used to tell me things.

 

 

I'm sorry. I really am.

 

I wish I could be more positive, but this is how I feel.

 

I do want to stay here and find a new way to be an asset to the board. Don't think I am saying anything else. But if I knew in January what I now know about this board, I would have fled. Perhaps there simply is no place like the place I wish existed.

 

Perhaps that place is Heaven, which we know doesn't exist but which I could once believe in.

[Vigile]

I do want to stay here and find a new way to be productive. Don't think I am saying anything else. But if I knew in January what I now know about this board, I would have fled. Perhaps there simply is no place like the place I wish existed.

 

I wish you luck in finding your utopia. I suspect that it doesn't exist though and TBH, that makes me sad because from where I sit, as long as you can't see that you are going to continue to struggle and be unhappy.

[Vixentrox]

I lean to the less moderation the better side of things. Christian sites are notorious for thier ass hattery treatment of anyone who disagrees with thier world view and usually ban or delete posts of anyone who disagrees. I'd rather not us emulate the stupidity of swinging ban hammers and make a bunch of rules on what is and is not acceptable for a Christian. As stated we do have areas where Christian posting is heavily restricted. I really don't think there needs to be more. As also stated, no once chains anyone in front of thier computer. If you getting that stressed out, take a break and collect your self to sally forth on an offense of your own later. Also, I think a big part of recovery is being able to fight back and stop being a sheep for them to step on. Get angry at them, yell at them, rip thier pathetic arguments to shreds with logic and learning. To be a sheep means they will continue to hold power over you. I realize people get there at different rates but never the less I see it as essential to recovery from the years of brainwashing and abuse heaped on us by those foul beast worshipers. One has to learn to to basically fuck christians and thier feeble god and ideas up and learning to do it here on the internet is a safe place to do that.

[Guest lenbitme]

I have to say, I feel bad about how many people have misunderstood Ameen's intentions with this thread, and his very clear statements. To me, everything he has said is understandably rooted in his anxieties and frustrations over a confrontation he was not ready for. His purpose for this thread was not to blow the incident out of proportion, or bother anyone with old news, but to express his feelings over being ill prepared for a debate with a christian. It took a while for me to arrive at the stage in my deconversion recovery that I could confront christians and their circular reasoning without feeling overly anxious. I still have some overwhelming anxieties in talking about this sensitive subject with them. And not to post late on an already resolved matter, but correctly using the phrase "I'm sizing you up" means you are using it in a circumstance in which you desire to prepare for a fight with the person you happen to be sizing up. That is most often considered threatening language. Continuing to speak for Ameen, I wanted to say that I wish this thread had stayed true to its purpose. This was supposed to be his avenue to express his feelings on a matter, and to maybe acquire advice and support from those who have been in such a sensitive state in their early days of deconversion. Instead, it turned into a long-winded argument between people over semantics, intentions, and mis-communication. How sad that he did not find the understanding he needed, but quite the opposite.

[Vomit Comet]

I lean to the less moderation the better side of things.

 

From what I've seen, and from experience, it depends on how sensitive the topic. You would want to moderate the ever-loving holy bleedin' shit out of a site for rape survivors, for example.

 

I figure since we talk shit until we're blue in the face about them, they can talk shit back. And then the rest of us can laugh our asses off while they get torn to shreds by the lions, because the odds are definitely against the fuckers here.

 

However, sometimes they hit below the belt (which is what happened to Ameen), and it becomes a judgment call. Personally, I feel that if it's a judgment call, Christians should get a little less slack if it's their sickness (Falwell endorsed homophobia, for example) that motivates them to be that shitty. If they're just being a dick, treat them the same as if one of us was being a dick. But if they're "standing on the Rock", or in the shadow of the "Old Rugged Cross" while rubbing salt into a wounded man's wounds, then they should be duly punished for their sanctimonious cruelty.

[Vigile]

This was supposed to be his avenue to express his feelings on a matter, and to maybe acquire advice and support from those who have been in such a sensitive state in their early days of deconversion. Instead, it turned into a long-winded argument between people over semantics, intentions, and mis-communication. How sad that he did not find the understanding he needed, but quite the opposite.

 

I don't see where we merited an "I'm disappointed" speech. People here tried to understand and be sensitive. People here say what they think. Walking on egg shells is what we have to do with our xian friends and relatives.

[Legion]

People here tried to understand and be sensitive.

I agree. I think we're still trying.

[Ouroboros]

Continuing to speak for Ameen, I wanted to say that I wish this thread had stayed true to its purpose. This was supposed to be his avenue to express his feelings on a matter, and to maybe acquire advice and support from those who have been in such a sensitive state in their early days of deconversion.

Really? The title is, "Discussion For Ex-Xians: Limiting Christian Access Here." To me, the title suggests a purpose of: discussion, not empathic support; and the question of board changes, not someone's feelings. And the opening post does not suggest anything different. The focus of a thread is based on how it is presented. If it later deviates, then this new line of discussion is the sidetrack, not the original intent.

[Ouroboros]

I'm closing this thread, because the topic has strayed away from what the title and introduction announced.

 

After all, the decision is to change nothing in the board, so the thread has served its purpose.

 

And there is another thread, started by Ameen, which discusses other sides of this issue.

 

Closed as of Oct 19 2009 05:37 AM. Hans