Was It All That Bad?

[Vixentrox]

Some of these replies and people's lives are so sad. It certainly gives a lot of food for thought. Why is it that some people become christians and yes, they have a life of pain and suffering, but in the midst of that still feel God near? Then why like so many on here just dont? I dont get it. It does, however give me a lot more understanding, and I thank you.

 

Don't take offense, but I do not need your pity. My life is no more difficult now than it was as a christian, except that I deal with my problems in much more constructive ways than I did then.....on second thought I take it back my life is much better now BECAUSE I deal with my problems instead of expecting some supernatural being to fix them.

Even though my life is now filled with physical pain it is way better now than the emotional torture being a Christian was. There was very little peace as a Christian. My life is way better now too so I second your words.

[Michael]

Was it all that bad?

 

No. It was quiet a good and exiting time in my life. I have enjoyed the fellowship of other xians and liked the idea of meeting "brothers and sisters" in every country of this planet. I became a xian during a deep personal crisis. I would have probably killed myself if I would not have meet them.

 

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

From time to time I had nice and warm feeling / emotions (what is the different? Can someone help me with this?). I had the impression that the holy spirit is "with us" during prayer times and worship times. Sometimes it was pretty intense.

 

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Yep!

 

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

Stuff like this happened or happened not with a 50/50 chance to me. When it happened it was a "miracle", if not than it was "gods wisdom".

 

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

Yes.

 

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

Yes, threatening stuff that happened and comforting stuff that comforted.

 

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

Yes, my own life changed completely.

 

 

How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

The short version: I have discovered that xianity is just an emotional and social thing. Without other xians there was no god. While I was in church he could "talk" to me and "comfort" me and give me "directions". When our church broke down (leadership struggles), our faith broke down and god never ever "talked" to me or my wife again. I always felt like gods stepchild and that became worse during the following years until it lead me to a complete nervous breakdown with panic attacks. It took years to review my xian time and recover.

 

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

I have missed it often while I was a xian. I have to accept the fact, that god is either nonexistent or he just do not care about me.

[Legion]

I don't understand why this thread is in the Coliseum. I really don't.

 

Kathlene you wouldn't be posting here because it shelters you, would you?

[agnosticator]

...I felt sad that their christian experience was so horrible. I was trying to reconcile how it is that for some it is good, and for others it turns mean and cruel...

 

 

A culturally accepted LIE, that is meant to control one's thoughts and feelings in order to maintain it, is bound to cause problems. For some, it provides abdication of self-responsibility, by passively accepting everything as God's will. They find comfort in that. For others, it provides them the right to dominate and control others as an instrument of God's supposed Will. Yet others define their roles in the church by identifying with biblical characters. And on and on...

 

Yet they must also try to live in the world without being a part of it and obey the ambiguous teachings in the Bible. To be successful in this, one can't think or question too much. By seeing oneself as a sinner with nothing good inside without Jesus' forgiveness and covering, the Christian is set up to mistrust his own thoughts and feelings. Better to think twice before thinking too much with heaven at stake!

 

 

Christians must also fit in with the group they join while fulfilling their Christian self-image, as explained in the first paragraph. How the Christian sees himself and how he/she relates to others in the group may not mesh well. Differing views on how to live the Christian life clash, and the result is backbiting, gossip, power struggles, and other assorted nastiness. The "happy" Christians either don't believe, study, and invest their lives in it enough, or they somehow insulate or dissociate the whole mess from their minds.

[Kathlene]

I don't understand why this thread is in the Coliseum. I really don't.

 

Kathlene you wouldn't be posting here because it shelters you, would you?

Im sorry Legion, I didnt know what the criteria was for where I should of posted it. By all means if a mod wants to move it to the Den go for it. I have noticed lately you have a thing about the whole coliseum. To be honest, I dont even know what the difference is between the two. I was under the impression the lions den was for more formal topics, not personal ones like this. My apologies.

[Legion]

I have noticed lately you have a thing about the whole coliseum.

Yeah, I guess I do. I like the idea of this forum. It's not the Den, too hot in there. It's not the Arena, too cold in there. But here in the Coliseum it's just right.

 

I thought the OP would likely draw the ire and heat of many. My initial thought when I read the title was something like... "Did you ever enjoy being mind fucked?"

 

Now see there. I used a bad word. In the Coliseum. I'm very upset.

[NotBlinded]

Legion, you should be struck with a bolt of lightning for saying the f word in here. I'm tellin'...

[HRDWarrior]

 

Was it all that bad?

 

I guess that depends. My childhood I generally do not look back on in fondness, and I think much of that can be blamed on christianity, how my parents related to each other (or were told how they should relate), the ideas of women subtly thrown at me (or not so subtly sometimes), how children should behave, the constant fear of hell, being told I wasn't saved cause I didn't do it properly (after nearly 20 years of dedicated christian belief) and the very narrow minded education I received as a kid. However, there were things I enjoyed, I had/have a number of good friends who also happen to be christians, I enjoyed the fellowship in the churches - but, on a scale, there was far more bad than good - far more.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

 

Only the ones I made up in my own mind. At the time I was hoping it was something else but knew it wasn't. I'm not very good at pretending that way.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

No to all except the last one, but honestly, even that was nothing more than a function of picking up on subconcious vibes from people around me. I never heard voices in my head or outside of it, and frankly I'm glad I didn't - at least I don't have to look back and realize I was truly crazy to boot.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

I've seen people turn their lives around, but unless they had the personal determination to keep it that way, within a matter of years without exception they went back. The only ones who I've seen stick it out also had personal reasons to keep the changes going. Religion may have prompted some behavior, but without more there, I never saw someone stick it out for the rest of their lives (or to the present).

 

Sorry thats a lot of questions. Im just curious to know if when you were a christian, was it all that bad? Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

 

I don't declare that no god's exist - I just don't see enough evidence to say that they DO exist. Just because I don't understand something does not automatically mean that the supernatural is involved. I'm sure someone from the middle ages would think we were all demons if they were suddenly dumped into modern times, yet we know and can understand how technology works. It's not supernatural, and I feel that unless there is evidence of a being, people's feelings, hearing voices, and not knowing are not reasons to declare there IS a god.

 

To the last question, not in the least. I am happier than ever, truly happy with who and what I am, free to be myself, and content with who I have become thus far and looking forward to who I will become. Christianity never could provide that, unless I tried to force myself to believe it. At times I did, but how I felt then is nothing compared to how I feel now. There was always the looming shadow of never being good enough, fear of hell, fear of why bad things happened - nope, this is much better. I'm the one in control of my life, not some imaginary "friend." Sure, I've got to take responsibility for the bad, but that allows me to make better decisions in the future!

[ElrondHubbard]

I think that those are really good questions, and I'm happy to share my experience. I apologize in advance for my lack of multiquote-usage - I'm still new and haven't figured everything out yet. If I put your words in quotation marks, it's not meant as sarcasm.

 

1) It wasn't all bad, but it wasn't all good, either. I'll save specifics for the testimony I'm sure I'll eventually post, but I got both sides of Christianity in fairly equal measure. Ultimately, though, my leaving had very little to do with my experience, except to the extent that my experience informed my knowledge of history and the Bible. To put it simply, I left because I just didn't believe that Jesus Christ died & was resurrected to be my savior. I also learned a lot about Church history shortly before I started on the path to deconversion. Finding out that the New Testament was canonized hundreds of years after the fact by whoever happened to be most powerful at the time was a nail in the coffin of my faith - if the richest, most powerful people get to decide what God did and didn't say, then the Beatitudes don't mean a damn thing.

 

2) In a sense; I had (and still often have) moments full of blissful clarity and a feeling of "connected-ness" to something much bigger than myself. I would have described it as closeness with God when I was a Christian, but even then they were more Keats or Thoreau-esque than Biblical.

 

3) As an extension of the previous question, yes. And again, I still sometimes do. However, I don't know how that is relevant; if a person feels connected to "God" does it matter whether or not they cry? I don't mean to infer anything you didn't say, but if you mean to suggest that such intense personal experiences point to the validity of Christianity, I'd (respectfully) question your logic.

 

4) No.

 

5) At moments, but there are a LOT of words in the Bible, and it's not hard to find personal meaning when you're looking for it. In general, I found myself making excuses for passages in the Bible that contradicted my core values far more often than I encountered deeply meaningful insight. I have always found a lot more inspiration outside of the Bible than within it.

 

6) I haven't had "strange promptings," but I do have strong intuition.

 

7) I have seen that a few times, and I have also seen sincere, open, and caring people become posturing bombastic hypocrites. The majority of people I've seen "saved" have stayed exactly the same.

 

I don't call myself an athiest - I definitely don't believe in the Bible, and I don't really believe in God, but sometimes I like the idea. My Christian past has definitely shaped me, and I'm grateful for parts of it. But for me, leaving Christianity never felt like a choice - it felt like finally accepting truths I couldn't ignore. Thanks for the thoughtful questions, Kathlene. Will you answer them, too? I'd love to hear your responses.

[godlessgrrl]

Well, since you've asked...

 

Was it all that bad?

 

Yes. It was. It was excruciating, in fact, a mental rape from beginning to end.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence? Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

 

No and no.

 

Any crying I did was out of desperation that god seemed uninterested in any sort of closeness, since he never bothered to commune with me in any recognizable way. Neither did he heal me of anything whatsoever.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

No, no, no, and no.

 

There have been a few instances in my life where I just knew something was going to happen, and it did. It's because sometimes, when I'm using my head and gut in tandem, I can be very intuitive.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

No and no.

 

Every hopeless situation I've ever been in, I've found my own way out of it. Most people I've met who have told me god turned their life around, they were either exaggerating or lying outright, or ascribing to god changes which were well within the realm of human possibility.

 

How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

 

I realized that the invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. Belief in a deity is not justified if one has no evidence that said deity exists. I had none then, and I have none to this day. I will not believe until I get some - and it has to be better than what I've been offered so far.

 

I have an extremely high standard of evidence for the existence of god, with good reason. All I've ever seen believers do is attack my reasons and give me grief for not lowering my standards. If there's a god, it deserves better than that.

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

 

No. I find it difficult to miss something that was never really there to begin with.

[chefranden]

Hello again

 

So I have read lots of stories and experiences on this site about your lives when you used to be christians.

I would like to ask some questions though, if anyone would be willing to answer.

 

Was it all that bad?

 

Nothing in my life including war was all bad, if that is your meaning.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

 

I had moments of nice warm fuzzies that I ascribed to God. However, I was only fooling myself. With enough training and cultural pressure I could have ascribed these moments to an elm tree, or to a golden calf. If these sorts of moments are any proof of a god's reality then all gods are real.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

 

This is pretty much the same question as above.

 

I had moments of crying and despair in his apparent forsaking of me. Again I was only fooling myself, for of course God never forsook me, because he was never there to begin with.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

 

No, he never said a thing. If you are hearing God, you might want to consider a CAT scan.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

No, but I have no idea what you mean.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

Oh for pete sake, get some critical thinking skills.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration?

No, I've had the opposite happen though.

 

Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

I've seen this when someone got religion, but I wouldn't say it was because they met God. Any religion will do in this regard. In fact this happened to me from having got religion. I went from working class financial okness to abject poverty and struggle to serve him. God may provide, but he doesn't provide much. I got mighty sick of zucchini.

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

I wouldn't know how to miss something that isn't there, but then I've been out for many years. I don't miss the Pope, but then I never met him. So not having actually met God, I'm pretty sure I don't miss him. And don't you dare say I never tried to meet God either.

[Vigile]

Was it all that bad?

 

I think this is a good and apt question for this forum Kathlene. I'll try and answer as honestly as possible.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

 

I thought I did. I am quite certain, however, it was contrived and merely human emotion. Unlike some I didn't have any experiences that couldn't easily be explained as just group think or emotionalism.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

 

I tried to but it merely led to years and years of frustration. I did sometimes feel inspired and sometimes/maybe oftentimes cried over emotions, but I cry easily over movies and books I read as well today. I don't see that my experiences with xianity were any different than this.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

 

God never once spoke to me. Sometimes I would persuade myself that I was to make a decision or choice and I entertained the idea that god inspired that, but it was just me or what I thought god would want based on my interpretation of scripture.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man?

 

Never.

 

Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

 

Sometimes I would be inspired by a verse, but I'm also inspired by books outside the bible. It's natural, not supernatural.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

Nope. And I'm highly suspicious that anyone who claims this is merely using this as an excuse to interject their own personal opinion onto others.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration?

 

Every prayer that was ever answered was answered by me or someone who helped me. It was nothing supernatural.

 

Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

I've seen people 'saved.' They changed themselves. I didn't see any radical changes, though I've heard many stories. Personal inspiration has the power to cause one to change one's course. This is not anything surprising is it?

 

Overall, I had more good experiences with church than bad, though I was utterly frustrated by the lack of anything that could ever be interpreted as supernatural. As I have already mentioned, everything was just me; my decisions, my emotion. I don't believe today not because my overall church/belief experience was all bad but because I realize now it wasn't real or true. I don't believe there is a god who created us or who watches over us. There is no evidence to support this and it is, IMO, illogical to believe otherwise. Alternative explanations for the emotions I felt fit much better. Moreover, I have found that belief in these types of things does one more harm than good and skews one's world view in ways that are less than positive both for the believer and for those the believer comes in contact with.

[chefranden]

Hello again

 

So I have read lots of stories and experiences on this site about your lives when you used to be christians.

I would like to ask some questions though, if anyone would be willing to answer.

 

Was it all that bad?

 

I've given this some more thought.

 

To be honest it mostly wasn't bad, until my faith started leaking away. I can't even blame the church for firing me. This was a Church of Christ and everybody knows the Church of Christ is the OneTrueChurch™. As my faith slipped away liberal heresies started to leak in here and there, and I'm sure I scared them half to death. They hired me to be a bible thumping Lutheran and Catholic saving SOB. I'm sure they missed having sermons on how Catholics would be going strait to hell and such like that. And when I got a lapsed Catholic or Lutheran to join in I didn't rush 'em down to the river to immerse them good an proper. And I let women speak during the assembly -- encouraged them actually. No they were right by their lights to throw me out.

 

The bad bits were mostly between me and God there at the end. These were the bits wherein it became painfully clear that God was ignoring me, or (heaven forbid) was not there at all. If God is real, he did a damn good job of convincing me he isn't. Or maybe he hates Catholics and mouthy women too.

[mwc]

Was it all that bad?

Not at the time. It was what it was. Just like things now are what they are. In hindsight certain things sucked quite a bit more than they should have thanks to the whole xian mindset. Did you know demons don't cause problems like Tourette's Syndrome? Live and learn.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

No. The xian god does not exist. There were times when I felt things were very "special" or "religious" like when I was confirmed and other things like that. Things that were connected to the church, religion and the like. But I felt a special connection with Ozzy when I went to his concerts since I knew all the words to his songs too. That doesn't mean Ozzy and I actually had a special connection. It means in the right setting it's possible to get caught up in the moment. Ozzy puts on a kick-ass show however and god's sucks balls. With thousands of years to get it right you'd think it would be far better than a weekly yawn fest.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

I had the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart. Where? Down in my heart. Where? Down in my heart.

 

Not to mention the peace that passes understanding and the love of jesus and whatever the hell else. Where? Ahhh, screw it...

 

I whined for years about things. "God" finally answered all my prayers once I got off my ass and did all the work myself. What a guy that "god." He really does help those that help themselves. Because if you don't do it yourself then shit ain't gettin' done...ever.

 

You see. I wanted a wife. Or a girlfriend. Whatever (really a wife since that's the xian deal, right?). But I put it "god's hands." So I never talked to girls. Well, I talked to them but I never talked to them in "that way." I figured that the right girl would just fall out of the sky and, shit I don't know, wiggle on my face. It's a sign! So years of loneliness ensued. Finally I basically asked a girl out. I played GOD! But I got a date. And more. Then I got hitched. Prayers answered. Right? Had to be. And all I had to do was all the work. All "god" had to do was make this chick love me because I'm an unlovable piece of shit that only a "god" can force another person into loving. Problem solved. What a wonderful story. No matter how you slice it comes up shitty. So no. I did the work. "God" takes the credit. If it fails it's because I blew it or it wasn't meant to be. Whatever.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

No. Because the xian god does not exist.

 

See the above story. I attributed a bunch of shit to "gods" and "demons" since I had no other world view that allowed for me to understand the true nature of things. I got married because I bothered to get involved instead of waiting for a magic solution. I have Tourette's because of whatever causes that shit (genetics).

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

No. Because the xian god does not exist.

 

My inner man? You mean my brain? The little voice in my head? No. I'm sane. Whatever strange name you want to attribute to the feeling of "Hey, this shit is about me"...it isn't. Go listen to Carly Simon and realize that isn't about you either.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

It's called empathy. Many people come equipped with it. It's friend, sympathy, is also commonplace. Check them out sometime.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

No. The xian god does not exist.

 

People's lives change direction for many reasons. If they change after entering a cult then what can I do other than acknowledge that entering the cult caused their life to change direction?

 

I've heard many a story of people drinking themselves to the point of near death. Puking their guts out (metaphorically of course). This caused them to basically "hit rock bottom" and turn their lives around. No "god" at all. Should I then argue that, instead of joining a cult, we all drink and drink in hopes of hitting this same "rock bottom" so that we can also turn our lives around as these others did? Would this be something to advocate? You must experience the atrocities of drink so you can appreciate the liberation from same as a changed person.

 

Sorry thats a lot of questions. Im just curious to know if when you were a christian, was it all that bad? Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

No. The xian god does not exist.

 

mwc

[OnceConvinced]

Was it all that bad?

Nope. In fact I did not want to lose my faith at all. It was something I fought against, but I couldn't make myself belief, it doesn't work that way. I was respected and valued within the church and by other Christians. I enjoyed the life style. Having said that though, my Christian upbringing stunted me as a person, messed up my social skills, gave me low self esteem and gave me a lot of unrealistic expectations.

 

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

Often, but it was only while music was playing, after an inspiring sermon or when I medidated (ie quiet times). There is never any close feeling with God otherwise and I'm sure if you are honest with yourself the same will be for you too. This is because music in particular stirs your emotions and gives you the feeling of God, but the same can be said for secular music. I've always said that you could play "Stairway To Heaven" in a church service and it would stirr you as much as a hymn. An inspiring sermon can also stir your emotions and make you feel as if you are close to God.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Yeah and I put it down to God. But i also have such things now without God. So why should I believe that it was ever any close communion with any supernatural being?

 

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

I had many prophesies over my life only one of which came to be. I see no reason to see it as anything else but chance. It was the type of prophecy that was always going to be inevitable for a teenager growing into adulthood, maturing and becoming more responsible and more valued by the church. Another time I felt God was telling me I would meet my future wife at a camp I was going to. I didn't. However I met her at the second camp I went on a week later and put it down to God fulfilling his promise to me. But Helloooooo, God told me it was going to be at the first camp! I tried to justify it and say it was God just testing me, but he came through for me in the end. It's a classic example of Christians attempting to twist things so that it really does become a fulfilled prophesy. You don't always mean to be dishonest with yourself, you just do so that you can continue to glorify God.

 

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

yes, but then again I still feel that voice inside me and it's certainly not God, so why should I believe it was then? Often I would read the bible and something would hit me. Now when I read the bible the same thing happens, but it's often an atrocity or an absurdity that stands out and comes alive and real. Something that shows the bible to be man's wisdom, not God's. Something that shows the God of the bible to be a complete wanker, not loving and merciful. I guess that's God showing me those things, huh?

 

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

I had promptings from my mind a lot. There is something called the sub conscious you know, that's always working and sometimes comes up with stuff out of the blue. It's often just a matter of odds. You want to hear an amazing coincedence? It happened about a year ago. I've been an ex-christian for 5 years now. I ran into an old work collegue on the street, one I hadn't seen for about 10 years. We got to talking about other people there. This is how it went:

 

Me: What was the name of that guy we used to have tea breaks with. He always used to talk about Star Trek.

Friend: Oh... who do you mean?

Me: You know, he used to work in another department. He was a real sci fi nut.

At that moment the guy I was talking about comes walking along the road towards us.

Me (without skipping a beat): That guy right there!

 

Sure enough it was him. The three of us chatted for a little then went our own seperate ways without even getting each others phone numbers or business cards. An amazing amazing coincedence. But was it supernatural? Of course not. There was absolutely no point or purpose in it. So a coincedence can be amazing, but that doesn't make it a supernatural event.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration?

Sure and I get the same thing now too. In fact my deconversion is one such event. I felt it was completely hopeless and I begged God for some kind of hope or boost of faith. I never got it. Over time I slowly saw restoration ie, getting over the pain, finding peace and moving on. I guess it must have been God helping me become an ex-Christian, huh?

 

Of course now with things I look deep inside myself for the strength to get through difficulties. I no longer need an imaginary God as I know I have the strengths I need to deal with difficult situations. We all have them, we just need to tap into them.

 

Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

Nope, but I have seen people hit rock bottom and get to the point where they have had a gutsful of their lives and want to make a change. And I hear that in testomonies too about how people were at the lowest of the low. But it often takes that for many to get to that point before they WILL change. Sometimes they find religion helps in the process, but it's more just a matter of willpower and desire. There are just as many people who's lives continue to go downhill even though they HAVE met "God". In fact being in leadership I found that most Christians were absolutely miserable, had little joy and peace and had all sorts of problems.

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

Nope. Because I now realise that God's presence was just my own mind working and I can tap into it now to get the same peace and understanding.

[NewPerspectives__]

God helping me become an ex-Christian, huh?

 

It sounds funny but it actually is an interesting question. If you believe 'prayer changes things". Who knows. I sure that according to Christians. G-d loves his children.

[Vixentrox]

God helping me become an ex-Christian, huh?

 

It sounds funny but it actually is an interesting question. If you believe 'prayer changes things". Who knows. I sure that according to Christians. G-d loves his children.

He loves them so much that he has an eternal torture chamber set up for billions of them! So thoughtful of him. hehe

[lunaticheathen]

For me, yes, it was all that bad, and worse. I can say no to the rest of the questions, and that's why it was that bad. I was belittled and dismissed as "insincere" because I didn't feel a thing, and wouldn't fake it. I got depressed and attempted suicide.

I have felt things of a spiritual nature, but none were connected with church, christianity, or the bible. Everything having to do with christianity was a big empty void for me, emotionally. It turned me into a pale ghost of myself. Being something that isn't me is horrible for me, so yes, christianity was a terrible experience for me.

[merc_m]

 

Was it all that bad?

 

Not while I was really into it.

 

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

 

definitely. but i've had much more profound experiences outside of any particular religious paradigm. You realize that conceptual models are man-made, mind-made and don't really hold up to a whole heck of a lot of scrutiny, right? Words got attached to experience, then those words came to supersede reality by people who are ignorant. Then this ignorant stance get's re-enforced through social pressures and group-think. Sorry, but the originators of the bible may have had some profound subjective experiences, but they were ultimately sheep-herders who could not separate subjective from objective.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

 

sure. I used to have tears roll down my cheeks during worship. I still have moments where life is overwhelmingly beautiful and religious structures and/or beliefs are entirely unnecessary for me.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

 

I guess. But there are plenty of things I thought I was told that never came to pass. Be honest with yourself. It's very easy to be selective in our own personal faith-building.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

 

How do you determine God's voice? I've had things that made sense on a deeply intuitive level that worked out just peachy regardless of my faith status. What does it mean? That my brain works out more than my actively conscious mind can sometimes? Or that there is a Supramundane creator who sends people to heaven or hell? Once again, your question assumes that there is an answer that proves your point.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

Sure, but again, how does that prove or disprove a personal Deity? Or an impersonal one for that matter? Have you really thought this through for yourself? It doesn't sound like it.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration?

 

Having moments of emotional calm tends to do that. For some, a belief in a loving Deity helps them get to a point of calm. That is unnecessary though, as I have such moments all the time. Do you think moments of clarity and calm necessitate the existence of a Creator?

 

Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

Sure, but that in no way indicates whether there actually is a God. It simply means that this method of behavior (internal and external) helped that individual cut out negative thought patterns and live in a more positive mindset. The same can be achieved without any sort of Deity belief.

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

 

Do I miss my own mental projections? Only to the extent that they were mentally comforting. But comforting does not equal true. I'm much more concerned with the truth of things than some mentally conceived notions of an invisible Deity. Once again, I've had more profound and complete experiences outside of any religious belief structure. It's great that you're happy with your beliefs (i'm assuming that's the case), but I have to say that happiness and fulfillment are not tied to the belief in a God who created man with the propensity to be tempted, allowed a tempter into the garden and thereby doomed all who didn't believe in an ancient mythos to eternal hell without relief.

 

Does that answer your questions?

[merc_m]

 

That's sounds like rationalizing an ongoing relationship with an abusive partner. Sure, there are memorable highs and a sense of soulmate-level connection. But if the whole relationship was based on lies and power games, the occasional warm fuzzies are nowhere near worth it in the end.

 

I refer to this as Cosmic Stockholm Syndrome. If there is a all-loving deity, it certainly isn't the one described in the OT. And, no, the NT version of 'God is Love' doesn't cancel out children being mauled by bears, genocide, slave-ownership, etc.

[Kathlene]

 

Was it all that bad?

 

Not while I was really into it.

 

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

 

definitely. but i've had much more profound experiences outside of any particular religious paradigm. You realize that conceptual models are man-made, mind-made and don't really hold up to a whole heck of a lot of scrutiny, right? Words got attached to experience, then those words came to supersede reality by people who are ignorant. Then this ignorant stance get's re-enforced through social pressures and group-think. Sorry, but the originators of the bible may have had some profound subjective experiences, but they were ultimately sheep-herders who could not separate subjective from objective.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

 

sure. I used to have tears roll down my cheeks during worship. I still have moments where life is overwhelmingly beautiful and religious structures and/or beliefs are entirely unnecessary for me.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

 

I guess. But there are plenty of things I thought I was told that never came to pass. Be honest with yourself. It's very easy to be selective in our own personal faith-building.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

 

How do you determine God's voice? I've had things that made sense on a deeply intuitive level that worked out just peachy regardless of my faith status. What does it mean? That my brain works out more than my actively conscious mind can sometimes? Or that there is a Supramundane creator who sends people to heaven or hell? Once again, your question assumes that there is an answer that proves your point.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

Sure, but again, how does that prove or disprove a personal Deity? Or an impersonal one for that matter? Have you really thought this through for yourself? It doesn't sound like it.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration?

 

Having moments of emotional calm tends to do that. For some, a belief in a loving Deity helps them get to a point of calm. That is unnecessary though, as I have such moments all the time. Do you think moments of clarity and calm necessitate the existence of a Creator?

 

Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

Sure, but that in no way indicates whether there actually is a God. It simply means that this method of behavior (internal and external) helped that individual cut out negative thought patterns and live in a more positive mindset. The same can be achieved without any sort of Deity belief.

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

 

Do I miss my own mental projections? Only to the extent that they were mentally comforting. But comforting does not equal true. I'm much more concerned with the truth of things than some mentally conceived notions of an invisible Deity. Once again, I've had more profound and complete experiences outside of any religious belief structure. It's great that you're happy with your beliefs (i'm assuming that's the case), but I have to say that happiness and fulfillment are not tied to the belief in a God who created man with the propensity to be tempted, allowed a tempter into the garden and thereby doomed all who didn't believe in an ancient mythos to eternal hell without relief.

 

Does that answer your questions?

 

 

Thankyou Merc-m, I started this thread to get to know the members in here and what their previous life in christianity was, as a better way to get to know them and understand them. Thats all. It was in no means a method of me trying to come across in a smug and supercilious way thinking I had the answers. I have enjoyed the responses in here, and it makes for better understanding. Thankyou.

[merc_m]

 

Thankyou Merc-m, I started this thread to get to know the members in here and what their previous life in christianity was, as a better way to get to know them and understand them. Thats all. It was in no means a method of me trying to come across in a smug and supercilious way thinking I had the answers. I have enjoyed the responses in here, and it makes for better understanding. Thankyou.

 

Cool, i wasn't trying to be smug or anything either. The questions just seemed pointed in a certain direction, so I answered based on what I saw there.

[nightflight]

Yes, Kathlene it was that bad. I never felt any "closeness" to God, all I ever felt was fear and guilt. It wasn't the Christians I rubbed elbows with that made my experience bad, most of them were great people. It was Christianity itself, the doctrine, especially and maybe even singularly the doctrine of eternal torment. That one doctrine is so abusive and cruel.

 

To call Xianity "good news" is Orwellian; its cynical, its a bastardization of language. I liken it to the sign over the gate of Auschwitz that read, "Work Will Set You Free". Yeah, its like that.

[Deva]

To answer the question - no, it was not all bad while I was in it. To me, good or bad had nothing to do with it. It was the truth. That was all. My parents believed it, most of my peers believed it, and it was true and because from childhood I was taught it must be true, so it was true.

 

The extent of the damage was only recognized by me after 30 years or so. Mostly it is a very low self-image which makes it hard for me to live with myself. I have a continuing struggle with that, which has only been helped by the counterbalance of the opposite viewpoint - that of Buddhism, which teaches that I am not the scum of the earth just because I have been born.

[OnceConvinced]

To answer the question - no, it was not all bad while I was in it. To me, good or bad had nothing to do with it. It was the truth. That was all. My parents believed it, most of my peers believed it, and it was true and because from childhood I was taught it must be true, so it was true.

 

The extent of the damage was only recognized by me after 30 years or so. Mostly it is a very low self-image which makes it hard for me to live with myself. I have a continuing struggle with that,

 

I can fully endorse this. I can look back now to a lot of the bible teachings, which was really very bad advice. The whole "turn the other cheek" and "bless your enemies" teaching, made me a dormat for bullies. That is just one thing. So much of the teachings of the bible is out of touch and unrealistic. Thinking for yourself is also something that is particularly discouraged. You believe the bible and you don't question it. It's God's infallible word so it has to be right. I think that's one of the reasons it took me so long to break free from the brainwashing. To think all the experiences I missed out on and relationships I missed out on because of my Christian beliefs. Things like "not being unequally yoked" made me only ever look for relationships with Christian females. A non-Christian woman was out of the running as far as I was concerned. If I could live my life over again, I would want to avoid Christianity like the plague... any religion for that matter.