Was It All That Bad?

[Guest ephymeris]

I don't want to seem harsh but I think this topic put me off a bit because the question seems loaded. I don't know if it's really your intent or not but this line of questioning has an air of the "real christian" argument. I don't want to give you a reason to think our different experiences validate your faith, because we are the unlucky ones who never really experienced god in your opinion. Anyway, I'll play too.

 

Was it all that bad?

This is too general a question. I love the friends I made in church (who are generally still my closest friends to this day) and the memories we made together growing up. I hated the guilt and fear that made me think my history of sexual abuse made me broken and hellbound. I hated having to believe anyone would go to hell and the paranoia and fear that accompanied belief in satan. I hated the sexist and dogmatic bullshit. I could keep going but I'll stop.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

I wanted to so badly I worked very hard to turn off the sane doubts in my mind so I could allow myself to experience the "spiritual" euphoria I felt

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart? I had euphoria and catharsis at church or christian music festivals or during prayer circles with friends. Yes, I cried but not because "he" was real but because I wanted to feel it, I purposefully pushed myself to that point for the emotional release.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass? My friends and I were convinced god had healed a friend of mine but turned out my friend was already dead.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically? The first part of this question is babble. What the hell does that even mean? I tried to make the bible fit my life, I did the whole open the book randomly and let the word speak to me. I put my faith in the word but the more I read it without church guidance, the more things I saw that disturbed me. Yes, the bible was very important and holy to me as a christian.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day? Nothing above or beyond my own intuition. In fact, all the "promptings" or urges I felt that were religiously based were completely false. I also had several people "prophesize" over me who were unbelievabley, offensively fucking wrong.

 

The best things I "got" out of christianity have nothing to do with the faith or god, the best things are my friends and memories which though were often in church, had nothing to do with religion. I still have these things even without false religion.

[Kathlene]

I don't want to seem harsh but I think this topic put me off a bit because the question seems loaded. I don't know if it's really your intent or not but this line of questioning has an air of the "real christian" argument. I don't want to give you a reason to think our different experiences validate your faith, because we are the unlucky ones who never really experienced god in your opinion. Anyway, I'll play too.

 

Was it all that bad?

This is too general a question. I love the friends I made in church (who are generally still my closest friends to this day) and the memories we made together growing up. I hated the guilt and fear that made me think my history of sexual abuse made me broken and hellbound. I hated having to believe anyone would go to hell and the paranoia and fear that accompanied belief in satan. I hated the sexist and dogmatic bullshit. I could keep going but I'll stop.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

I wanted to so badly I worked very hard to turn off the sane doubts in my mind so I could allow myself to experience the "spiritual" euphoria I felt

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart? I had euphoria and catharsis at church or christian music festivals or during prayer circles with friends. Yes, I cried but not because "he" was real but because I wanted to feel it, I purposefully pushed myself to that point for the emotional release.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass? My friends and I were convinced god had healed a friend of mine but turned out my friend was already dead.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically? The first part of this question is babble. What the hell does that even mean? I tried to make the bible fit my life, I did the whole open the book randomly and let the word speak to me. I put my faith in the word but the more I read it without church guidance, the more things I saw that disturbed me. Yes, the bible was very important and holy to me as a christian.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day? Nothing above or beyond my own intuition. In fact, all the "promptings" or urges I felt that were religiously based were completely false. I also had several people "prophesize" over me who were unbelievabley, offensively fucking wrong.

 

The best things I "got" out of christianity have nothing to do with the faith or god, the best things are my friends and memories which though were often in church, had nothing to do with religion. I still have these things even without false religion.

 

 

Ephy, my intention wasnt to be patronising or condescending in the slightest. I didnt know what else to call the thread. I have read testimonies and people's posts in here and was curious to know if there had ever been times when it wasnt all bad. In other words were there ever times of enjoyment, intense feeling, peace, etc. I didn't ask those questions in a way to say aha! you were never a true christian. Not at all. I was just curious about people's previous lives during their christian days. Thats all. There was nothing deep or sinister in it. I like to understand the people on board here, and where they are coming from and where they are going.

[Moxie]

Was it that bad?

Yes, Kathlene, it was THAT bad.

 

Church members treated me like a social leper. I was the outcast. Then I was told, "Don't let the hypocrites determine your relationship to God." But every christian cheats at this game called christianity!

 

No christian really believes the Bible and obeys it. If they did, then they would not cut corners. They would be christians first, and citizens of their country second.

 

Christians are human just like everyone else. Yet they claim to be more than human. They claim to be holy. Yet they act like everyone else, and oftentimes worse.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

 

I thought I was close with God, but it was me convincing myself that there was someone else out there to be close to.

 

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

 

I cried because I convinced myself that he was real.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

 

No.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

 

For me, hearing God's voice was actually me telling myself that I was better than the unbelievers around me. I used the Bible to justify my moral "superiority".

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

No.

[Guest ephymeris]

Ephy, my intention wasnt to be patronising or condescending in the slightest. I didnt know what else to call the thread. I have read testimonies and people's posts in here and was curious to know if there had ever been times when it wasnt all bad. In other words were there ever times of enjoyment, intense feeling, peace, etc. I didn't ask those questions in a way to say aha! you were never a true christian. Not at all. I was just curious about people's previous lives during their christian days. Thats all. There was nothing deep or sinister in it. I like to understand the people on board here, and where they are coming from and where they are going.

 

Fair enough

[EdwardAbbey]

Hello again

 

So I have read lots of stories and experiences on this site about your lives when you used to be christians.

I would like to ask some questions though, if anyone would be willing to answer.

 

Was it all that bad?

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

 

Sorry thats a lot of questions. Im just curious to know if when you were a christian, was it all that bad? Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

'''' Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?'''''''

 

I'll just take a crack at this one. When I was a Xtian I thought I had this kind of experience but now that I look back at those times I know it was only in my mind and not something outside the mind. The mind is the only place God exists. Because belief is the only thing that is keeping the God idea alive and well in this world today. God doesn't exist outside the minds of the billions who believe. He is only imaginary. When belief in God ceases, so does God. Ignore him and he'll go away. It worked for me and the thousands who quit God belief. Say goodbye to God and your mind will be set free from superstition forever.

 

[DesertBob]

Was it all that bad?

Yes and no. Yes in the sense that it set my expectations completely wrong and led me to make incredibly stupid life decisions, some of which I am still paying for some thirty years after the fact. No in the sense that I was not, for instance, a bad fit for the rule set. It asked little of me behaviorally that I wouldn't have done anyway, and I never was terrified of hell, or any of the other things that vex some folks.

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

I convinced myself I did, because it was expected, and others claimed to -- and I am pretty sure some of them had powerful subjective experiences. But, me, personally? No. I've never had a particle of mystical experiences even when I've tried. For the heck of it, after my deconversion I even paid to go see a shrink who claims he can spontaneously induce after death communication even in skeptics, and his techniques utterly failed on me, and on a close friend who also tried it. Your mileage may vary, etc.

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

God never told me anything personally. I suppose that certain Bible passages seemed to "speak" to me, but only in the way that certain posts on this forum or passages from random books "speak" to me. I relate to and connect to some ideas more than others. No big deal.

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

On rare occasions, but I never felt the need to claim it was of divine origin. It's simply intuition, and possibly luck. Also I think that often we know what to do in a situation deep down but our fear of being wrong or some other interference prevents us from connecting with it -- sometimes we can jump past that interference and go with our gut and it seems like it came from outside us but really didn't. At any rate -- nothing like this ever happened that couldn't be explained naturalistically.

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

I have seen people's lives turn 180 degrees after having a religious conversion experience, but I've also seen it after a horrific accident, betrayal by a lover, falling in love, going to war, or any number of other watershed experiences.

 

My oldest brother quit coming home blind drunk and vomiting on the back steps when he became a Christian, and this was such a relief to my parents that it influenced them to become Christians as well, which in turn influenced me and my other siblings, etc. At the time we saw it as evidence of God's transformative power; today I see it as my brother's need to belong to a group, and finding acceptance in a group other than his Navy drinking buddies. And I see his subsequent "Christian growth" as simple maturation that would have happened anyway. He was a typical, rudderless, confused kid, and he found someone to mentor him, and he grew up. There's no reason to "give God glory" for that. I give my brother glory for it.

Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

No, there was never I time I felt he was close, but even if there had been, I would have left the faith for the same reason: what it promised and what it delivered, what it said about life and the world and what life and the world really were like, were two completely different things.

 

Superficially at times, I missed the fake certitude and ego-inflating superiority that Christianity used to provide me with but mostly, no, I didn't miss it, and as time has gone on, whatever mild regrets I had, have evaporated. Time and perspective are great healers.

[Dibllsmek]

Yes it was. I had to go to a Catholic school. I had a serious case of insomnia, I only had 2 hours of sleep a night. We had to go to mass 4 times a week, all in the morning. I couldn't help myself, I fell asleep every time. This then resulted in me getting 5-6 detentions a week. Even resulted in me getting called possessed, when someone couldn't wake me up. Even went as far as being locked in a closet for a school day by my 6th grade teacher after I couldn't stay awake in class.

 

Other than that it was also horrible, I'm going through puberty and I'm told that all the feelings I'm getting are sinful and will send me to hell if I don't repent. I got so sick once that I passed out in class (appendicitis) because my appendix burst. The school was 1 block away from the hospital, instead of going there they tool me to the church. Meanwhile I lost conscientiousness. Thank Bejeebus that someone praying there was a doctor and they rushed me to the hospital.

 

Yeah, not the fondest memories.

[Deanna]

Was it all that bad?

 

No, I have many fond memories from my Bible-believing days. I also have many painful memories. Church is a group of fallible people like any other group and an alleged relationship with Jesus does not make it superior.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

 

I thought I did. Since leaving, I've felt identical moments of closeness with Richard Dawkins, Dan Barker, John Loftus, and Robert M. Price when I've read their books, but I am not about to believe any of them are God or trying to speak to me personally.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

 

Pain that I experienced and asked God to take away was never healed. As for moments of joy, yes I cried. I truly believed God was there.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

 

Never.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

 

"God's voice" turned out to be my own subconscious. The human psyche is powerful. The Bible never seemed alive to me, which ended up being a big issue in the end.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

Well, I've picked up my phone and my mother's voice was on the other line going "Hello? Someone there?"... but the phone didn't ring at all. I credit that to the psychological bond between my mom and I and also pure coincidence. Never has anyone approached me with "God told me you need this..." and it be true to my life. Once it was absolutely wrong.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration?

 

Never.

 

Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

Many times. I credit it to the sincerity of what they believe, not the work of any real god. I've also seen people's lives fall to pieces because of what they thought God wanted them to do. The faithful do not have an advantage.

 

How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

 

I don't believe in any gods but I'll never say for sure "There is no God"... because I am not omniscient. The Bible is so full of contradictions, folklore, and downright incorrect information that if there were a god I doubt it would be the Judeo-Christian one. I got to this point when I decided to think critically and with an open mind.

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

 

Never. I had an imaginary friend as a child and I do not miss her either.

[Guest Perfect Insanity]

I want to say something.

 

I posted earlier in this thread, saying how bad it really was as a Christian. That's not entirely true. At first, it was good. I almost miss those times. I felt like I truly had a loving Savior watching out for me. I wasn't wrapped up in a bunch of rules. But... that didn't last long. It didn't take me long to start putting things together, to start seeing outrageous things in the Bible. To start seeing how "legalistic" Christianity truly was. Things got stressful, my OCD nature started building up, things got worse and worse, I prayed and prayed with no success.... and everything went downhill from there. It became a mental hell. The worst times of my life. These last few years have been a stressful, anxious, depressing path, full of insanity. I think I partly lost my mind. This short paragraph doesn't even come close to describing my Christian walk... but it became a literal mental hell. I'm still suffering from the damage that it did to me.

[Hungrydingo]

Was it all that bad?

-Looking back, it really was. I wasted lot's of time in my youth worrying over "sins" and following god.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

-I guess I would say no. I never really felt much of anything. I tried to use religion to comfort myself and to understand the thing going on around me and it was very much a struggle.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

-Nope. I never did any of that crying bullshit. Then again I was brought up Catholic and only did the catholic thing. They're not too big into the spiritual but rather the ritual. We didn't sing and wave hands and cry like a lot of other wierdo christians.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

-You mean like in a dream or vision or something? Definitely not.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

-No I never heard voices. They call that schizophrenia. I am not sure by what you meant by the bible becoming real and alive.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

-No, but I think I'm pretty good at reading people's emotions and body language. If I see someone distressed I will try and comfort them. But I never had premonitions to do so.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

-I've felt A LOT of pain and felt hopeless over a situation for sure. It was the lack of guidance or god speaking that helped me realize I was wasting my energy praying to him. Since I deconverted I've felt extreme emotional pain and felt like something was just never going to work out but there was no voice speaking to me or restoring it for me. In most cases there was no "restoration" and things didn't work out but I adapted and grew to except and deal with the outcome. I've seen people switch religions and it's usually different for awhile but then back to normal again.

 

Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you?

-I guess I felt god was close, it just wasn't a whole lot of help to me. I still felt that internal pain. It was only when I realized to let go and feel as I naturally want to that I began to feel better. Instead of thinking this isn't the way things should be, I accepted things for what they were. I finally let go and it felt so damn good, it literally felt like a colossal weight was lifted off my back.

 

How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

-It was gradual. For me it went from sadness to anger to an energized tell everyone how I really feel sort of state. It felt great.

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

-No, the only regret I have is how intolerant some people are of my beliefs. Especially good christian girls who don't date you because you're atheist only to get impregnated by someone they've only known and been with for 5 months.

[PocketAces]

Hello again

 

So I have read lots of stories and experiences on this site about your lives when you used to be christians.

I would like to ask some questions though, if anyone would be willing to answer.

Sure. I have the time.

Was it all that bad?

Of course not. I have good memories from the church. I have good memories with believers.

One thing to keep in mind is, not every non-believer deconverts, disbelieves because bad experiences in the church.

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

What I believed was god at the time, I did experience closeness with what I thought was real. I was a Christian for roughly 13 years. You don't stick with one religion for that long for no reason. You don't constantly try to understand more and more for no reason.

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Many a times.

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

I never heard a voice. It was all based on what I thought was God leading me. Several times I thought something was going to happen and it did. Self-fulfilling prophecy is all I did though.

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

'Inner man' is alien to me. Words from Bible 'became real' many a times because I was trying to live my life the best I could understand and relate to with the Bible.

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

Of course. We as creatures look for anything to help us when we have thoughts that are not giving us good feelings. It was easy to find anything because we all face, deal and struggle with very similar things. So I could use anything anyone said to help me out. Also, self-fulfilling prophecies were a great way to have that happen.

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

Of course. Specifically when I was 21, I moved out west for a woman going through a divorce. A relationship I should have never been in. I had no one to go to out there if it ended bad. It did end bad. I thought I was going to be homeless and I prayed and prayed for help and I felt like I got some sort of 'answer'. A week later I used up my money to get on a Greyhound bus and move back to Ohio(the state I was living at the time). I felt like I had committed adultery, which I don't care if your a religious person or not, those thoughts are not good and that is not a moral action. So I remember at my last job, in my truck on my break, praying to God to forgive me and set me free of it. That was the night from then on that I felt 'released' from that.

 

So I'm a non-believer so how do I explain that situation now? I was young when I did this. It was a bad situation. The self-fulfilling prophecy was, my family would never turn me away. We are family and we are always there for each other when can be. I knew this all along. It was repeated all the time from my father and mother. I couldn't spend a lot of the money I had simply because, while looking for work, I had to have some money to live on and help out the girl I was living with just in case she needed help. So the situation changed and required me to use that money for an emergency, to move back thus giving me the ability to accomplish what I felt I had to do. The cleansing of conscience. At the time, my mind could not wrap itself around the actions that I did. She was going through a divorce because her husband cheated on her and everyone I knew told me things like, it wasn't adultery what you did. My mind didn't accept that. So with the offer that Christianity has to cleanse ones' conscience, I used that as I thought fitting with faith, but as a human being, I needed SOME TYPE OF THOUGHT PROCESS to rid the thoughts that I had. It worked for that time.

Sorry thats a lot of questions. Im just curious to know if when you were a christian, was it all that bad? Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you?

How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

No prob.

It took several years to really confirm disbelief. I went through various of stages of dealing with issues of my faith. A wide range of seeking through theological strains. Constant times of trying to renew faith through the church, alone time you name it. Then there came a point that really I could not adhere to things that I cannot justify to myself any longer. Emotions could have been there as well because I'm a human being and emotions are a part of our life no matter if we want them to be or not, meaning...it is part of our decision making. The rest has evolved to where I am now.

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

I can't say I miss something that I don't know what it was that I had. Defining God is impossible. As the Bible teaches that no mind can truly understand the mind of God, then arguably no one knows what God is because God is more and beyond human beings, so with that being the way it is with the issue, how can I actually miss, 'God'? I've been drunk because I 'miss God' but those were nights of drinking too heavy because I was struggling in my faith so that does not really count.

[The Seeker]

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

 

I tried to, but I never felt anything supernatural.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

 

Yeah I cried a couple of times, sometimes without knowing why, but having seen the levels of suggestion of other people, I'm actually pretty disappointed that crying was all I was able to do.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

 

Nope. I used to do all the talking, never got the priviledge of the feedback.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

 

Not really, but I tried hard to convince myself that it did.

 

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

No, I did have some weird experiences when people would come all excited to tell me stuff they were sure God wanted to speak to me, only to say a lot of unrelated-to-my-life, good-intentioned balloney.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

No. And yes. I have seen a lot of people's lives turn the opposite direction after "meeting" God. Also after completing Double A, after attending Burning Man, suffering a near-death experiencie, and many others.

 

 

Sorry thats a lot of questions. Im just curious to know if when you were a christian, was it all that bad? Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

 

It wasn't all that bad, I made some friends. I think right now is the time in my life when I feel "God" closer to me. I don't miss God's presence, I feel in it all the time.

[Alice]

Hi Kathlene,

 

I think this is an excellent thread - I've not been around for a while so I'm really pleased people are still posting responses - so it is up at the top of current topics I haven't read the whole thread though, just the first couple of pages and the last one so forgive me if someone else has drawn the same analogy ...

 

The variations in people's persepctives are likely to be down to two things, firstly everyone's experience will be different and secondly our approach to how we recall and frame our recollections will differ as well.

 

A bit like asking a group of divorcees 'was marriage all that bad?'

 

I can answer yes to most of your questions, I had some 'amazing, wonderful, peaceful' experiences as a christian. I understand these differently than I did at the time, the experiences happened I just explain and understand them as naturally occurring phenomena now. I had some bad experiences as well - so some aspects were that bad.

 

There is more I am able to view and experience positively in my life since I left christianity, than there was before. I was worried that I would lose my ability to love and forgive and my ability to feel inspired and connected when I lef, but the reverse has turned out to be true for me.

[Antlerman]

Hi Alice

 

[Realist]

 

A bit like asking a group of divorcees 'was marriage all that bad?'

 

 

 

... to some of us I think it goes far deeper than that! At least in a marriage it usually starts with love and as a consentual arrangement, and partners can stay or leave at their own choice.

 

With religion this is not necessarliy the case! When one is born into a fundie christian family for instance choice does not usually come into it! If one accepts the brainwash, then maybe all will be fine and it WILL work for you! When one does not, one is mentally and often physically abused for no other reason than being born into the wrong family! That is the one thing even at my age I wish I could have changed! There was NO love in my family! God was first and we were 2nd and we were told that! I often think some fundies are not capable of love! My upbringing was also one of the main reasons I have no children!

 

In the words of my wife (she told me to write this bit!) it would be more like asking a woman was rape all that bad? Those comments have come from her seeing what I have struggled with for 30 odd years in our marriage!

[Атеист]

Hey Kathlene, I just read this topic (ok, sure, I skipped a bit of it here there...) and I just wanted to say that I really respect you. I'm not sure how often you check the boards but every post I've read in this topic by you has been generally open-minded, sincere and congenial. I'm not going to answer every question, but instead give a general response...mainly because I feel lazy.

 

It was not that bad...in fact, it was pretty good. I live in an area dominated by Christianity, and live in a household dominated by Christianity. All of my friends at the moment are also Christians. During my time as a follower I was able to identify with them, bond them, work with them, etc.

I was active in the church (although I didn't exactly have a choice in the matter, I would have been active anyway) and I enjoyed many aspects of it. I went on mission trips, I helped out charities, and I really felt accomplished in many ways. While I had faith I believed that I "heard" or "saw" the spirit of God in various ways/forms**. I believed that my life was being lead by Jesus...you know the whole deal. I had cried and participated in "healing" services. I did it all, and it wasn't really all that bad. I did have some ideals that now seem pretty awful to me, but didn't affect me too negatively at the time (I'm referring to my views on homosexuality, other religions and such).

Where my troubles rose (and continue to thrive...) were after my deconversion. I no longer could identify with the community in which I lived. I'm not going to get into specifics, but I've realized that religion is largely a social matter. I'm still an "in the closet" atheist, and as with any "Discreditable" (I'm not sure if you're familiar with that sociological term, but if you aren't its easy to look up I know..I'm lazy) member of a minority group, I am being faced with many forms of information management. This causes great distress in a lot of different ways.

 

So then, why leave right? Well, I couldn't help it. When put up to scrutiny, Christianity couldn't stand on it's own. I began asking myself many questions in many areas of my life at age 15, three years later, and through a ridiculous amount of reading (that is, reading of the Bible, christian faith writings, scientific texts, philosophy, etc.) and a whole lot of introspection, I have come to the conclusion that God, or anything like him, does not exist. At many times, I wish I still had faith, but I can't now. I see Christianity in the same light as I see the Pagan beliefs of ancient Greeks, or the tooth fairy....which I also wished was true!

 

Some of these replies and people's lives are so sad. It certainly gives a lot of food for thought. Why is it that some people become christians and yes, they have a life of pain and suffering, but in the midst of that still feel God near? Then why like so many on here just dont? I dont get it. It does, however give me a lot more understanding, and I thank you.

 

I know this has been addressed before, but I wanted to say something about it again

It is a psychological phenomenon, and there are many, many books on the subject (saying a lot of different things). The most simple way I think of it, is to compare it to the placebo effect. People believe what they are swallowing is going to work, and for many people, it does! For many others...it's just sugar. I know that may simplify things a but too much, but whatever

 

**Those various ways and forms were just me attributing all manner of things to God (many of it blind luck and such).

 

P.S. I'm sorry if that tooth fairy bit seemed at all demeaning or condescending. I don't want to come off that way.

[flockoff]

"Was it all that bad?"

Um, loaded question. I was able to have a semi normal life and be "happy." That was how it was regularly. It's when things weren't so regular that things were that bad, and way worse. I had a feeling of peace, about my good deeds being rewarded and the bad things done to me being punished, about being part of some majestic exciting plan no matter how mundane my life was, etc. But it doesn't make up for the bad shit those delusions brought on my heart. It certainly doesn't make up for keeping me in a fantasy world.

 

"Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?"

Many times. There was nothing better than a good prayer. I felt like I was hugging someone close to me. Sometimes I'd get a milky feeling around my rib cage, my breaths became cleaner and deeper, and I could feel a warmth on my shoulders and a cleansed feeling throughout my body and spirit. But still, nothing I hadn't gotten from other experiences, it's just that my mind had been trained to think they were uniquely from God at the times I was seeking his hand or experiencing something that made me think of him. I plan to learn more about the psychology of what I felt in the future, but my experiences most likely came from my ability to synthesize those feelings, the way an actor can fake or summon emotions on cue.

 

"Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?"

Cries, whimpers, a flushed look on my face, everything. Whether it was in the privacy of my bedroom or on display for the whole church.

 

"Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?"

Not some specific event that could be objectively stated. That would be more like the times I believed he told me I was going to get over some tragic ordeal or some other self fulfilling prophecy. Reading your horoscope will do the same thing if you trust it to do so.

 

"Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?"

Yes. After a period of desparately intense study I started reading the Bible with the idea that God intended for certain passages to be read by me at certain times and thinking I heard God's audible voice. The result was me making a damn fool of myself living out my thought life in front of my family, friends and strangers and being damn lucky it didn't turn out worse.

 

"Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?"

"Confirmation for another person" would have depended on us both looking for signs from God and most likely working together to find them. I didn't have anyone around me who thought that way, A cafeteria worker at the Christian school I went to gave me a bowl of chicken soup and said, "this is from the Lord." but I didn't believe it and it didn't mean anything for me beyond a free bowl of soup. "Just what they needed to hear that day" is meaningless beyond maybe you getting a subconscious sense of something that might help them from making observations. I might have happened to be sick that fall day and said to that woman, "thanks, that's just what the doctor ordered." Doesn't mean that she or God is a doctor.

 

"Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration?"

I was going through intense agony over what I'll just term as a really bad breakup. I told God I wanted him to take the love I had for that person and reciprocate it to her or something along those lines. I will admit that doing this did work after a long line of other things failed. But I have to wonder if I'd have had the self respect for that situation not to hit me so hard in the first place without Christianity telling me how worthless I was.

 

"Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?"

I've certainly seen people think this had happened to them. Usually they just redirected the habits they thought they got rid of in another direction, using God's name. And consider, really, it's a circular argument. You say "meeting God" but I don't believe in getting 'knocked off one's horse on the road to Damascus'-type stories. There has to be a committed effort from the person to begin with if they've found God, and that's what's making things happen. Maybe the rest of the changed is assisted by the placebo of there being an all-powerful God working to help the person, but it doesn't prove that god to be real.

 

"Sorry thats a lot of questions. Im just curious to know if when you were a christian, was it all that bad? Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?"

A close friend of mine, whose relationship with God I greatly revered as authentic, suddenly accepted some screwy ideas about salvation (Calvinism) that I wouldn't accept but nonetheless couldn't refute biblically. I was forced to keep thinking about it out of concern for him and through the debates we were having and eventually the explanations I held to about hell and other issues no longer worked, and it gave me the emotional push to say, "God, I'm done with you." I concluded that if the Christian wasn't worth serving, and by definition therefore did not exist. I hung around deism and agnosticism for a while, but without any personal interest in believing in a god, the intellectual part came easy. Very easy.

 

"Do you ever miss God and his presence?"

Perhaps in the way some adults might catch themselves reminiscing what good memories they do have of an abusive or absent parent, yes. But it's not beckoning me back, either. It's distanced so far by the bad memories as to not have any effect.

 

Some people were built ... created, evolved, whatever, to have these experiences, some weren't. Among those that were, fewer were meant to stay that way. My case was that I spiritual enough to find those experiences but too skeptical to just sit still and not question them or why a loving God sends people to hell, destroys civilizations en masse, etc. That, particularly, made it a rough, mostly negative experience, and I am so glad it's over.

[HappyChef]

Was it all that bad?

 

Well let me see...YES!! Being the victim of Stockholm Syndrome in the name if a make-believe "god".Xianity is nothing more than sugar coated sadistic garbage.

 

When it is programmed into children from birth then it creates brainwashed sheep that try their best to poison others. You being in it and "witnessing" to convert others are the same as the NATZI party "building" a better Germany. And we all know how that went!

 

So it comes down to one thing.Unless you can live your life and let others live theirs WITHOUT your brand of poison,history will repeat itself.

 

Replace Santa Clause in your questions above with "god" or "jebus" and see how utterly absurd you sound. Atleast you can admit santa is a myth.

[JadedAtheist]

Was it all that bad?

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

 

Sorry thats a lot of questions. Im just curious to know if when you were a christian, was it all that bad? Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

 

The Christian experience wasn't really that bad. I had some thorns in the flesh like the fear of going to hell because I wasn't really saved and the frustration that I wasn't overcoming sin but otherwise the experience wasn't too bad. Being in church made me realize that no one is perfect and that certain people have toxic reactions when exposed to certain ideologies. I've seen people turn into real arrogant and hurtful people. I've also noticed at how much of a "us vs them" mentality is created. When I moved from the legalistic church I was attending to a more easy going one I was basically declared anathema. Even now when I see people from that church I am avoided like the plague. This is very hurtful especially when you thought you were close to these people. I've also lost friends from changing my beliefs to Calvinism from Arminianism. It's really hurtful to have people you thought were your friends reject you over something that really doesn't matter in any practical sense even speaking within a Christian context.

 

During my spiritual highs I experienced what I thought were times of closeness to God. I would have a feeling of peace and calm and would spend hours reading the Bible and praying without ceasing and took more extreme methods than usual to ensure I didn't sin. Experiencing God wasn't all that emotional for me though in the sense of being brought to tears et cetera.

 

I never heard God speak to me verbally but I felt at times a peace about situations. Like if I lost something or if I wasn't sure how something would turn out and I prayed about it I would feel a peace come over me sometimes and I knew it would work out for a good result.

 

I felt conviction when I first read the Bible. I was wondering why I couldn't understand it just moments before getting to the close of John 8 where Christ asks "Why is it that you do not understand my words?". I felt like this must be some sort of divine intervention and took it from there. From that point onwards I would feel conviction on passage that spoke on something I did wrong. I never really received comfort from reading the Bible or even the Psalms which most people get something out of.

 

I've felt promptings to donate money or to talk to people and sometimes it resulted in people saying that was what they needed but most times it did not.

 

I have seen a lot of people who (and some of them like really evil people) became better people after Christianity came into their lives. I've seen people give up drug and alcoholic addictions and find meaning and purpose to their lives and started doing something productive with their lives. Though, I've also seen the same happen to people becoming Muslims and Buddhists. For my own life it gave me some moral fiber that I didn't have before and as a result it also gave me some discipline (like being able to hold onto a job) that I didn't have before.

 

At the same time I have seen so much damage caused by the vacuum of ignorance it creates that I really don't know what to think of religion. I know of people who have tried to commit suicide because they are overwhelmed with depression yet they cannot get medicated because their family don't believe in depression. I know of people who wanted to commit suicide because they were so frustrated with trying to reconcile their homosexual feelings with what the Bible said. I know countless other stories as well so when I consider religion I see it as a double edged sword.

[Kalidasa]

Was it all that bad?

Until I transferred out of the public school system to a private school when I was 11, it actually wasn't. Probably because at that point, the most exposure I'd had to religion was a year of preschool, once-weekly scripture lessons during school terms between Kindergarten and the end of Year 5, and something like a year of Sunday church back in 1994.

 

As soon as I was enrolled in the local Christian school, though, that was when it went downhill. I was expected to attend once-yearly church services on the first day of school each year, before class even began, with non-attendance being punished with detention. I had to keep the fact that I was attracted to both my male and female classmates a secret for six years. I nearly committed suicide when I was 15 because I was hurting so much, with my so-called friends insisting that God would never expect me to carry more of a burden than I could bear. A friend of mine was expelled because she fell pregnant during the spring school holidays. And when I finally did deconvert, and made the mistake of telling someone who I once considered a friend that I was an atheist (with this "friend" deciding to spread it around the school), I lived in fear of being dragged up before the school board and expelled because of my atheism. I lost most of my friends, and most of the teachers considered me to be lower than something that they'd scrape off of the soles of their shoes. I had kids in the grades below mine chasing me around the school grounds and telling me that I was going to hell because I no longer believed. The school counsellor decided to take it upon himself to pray for me, even though I asked him repeatedly not to. And worse yet, I was told by a teacher I had liked and admired for FIVE YEARS telling me that atheists did not exist, that I was deluding myself, and that if I didn't reconvert he would personally haul me up before the head of campus to explain myself.

 

Now can you tell me honestly that Christianity isn't all that bad?!

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

No, never.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Nope.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

Nope.

 

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

Nope. If I had, though, I would have strongly suspected schizophrenia.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

Nope.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

Nope. It was becoming an atheist that healed the pain that religion caused me.

Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

No, and no. As for my declaration - I merely put two and two together and realised that it was all complete bullshit.

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

How am I ever going to miss something that was nonexistent in the first place?

[MultifariousBirdLady]

Was it all that bad?

Sometimes being a Christian was really good, really moving.

But yeah, sometimes it really was that bad. Beyond bad.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

Yes, but I get that same feeling now in another religion.

 

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Yes, but I get that same feeling now in another religion.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

No. But I have gotten that in my current religion.

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

My "inner man"?

Yes, and I still sometimes read it, and it still sometimes happens.

However, this also happens when I read philosophy texts, ancient myths, and sometimes even self-help books or internet forums.

 

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

Occasionally, and occasionally this still happens.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration?

Yes, but not in Christianity.

 

Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

Erm... I have seen people go through lots of changes, both in and out of Christianity. Not all "u-turns" within Christianity are good.

 

How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

I think lots of Gods exist, actually.

 

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

Not the demonic Jesus, no. I'm glad he's gone.

I did not ditch the other ones.

[Serendipity Rose]

Was it all that bad?

No. It wasn't bad for me at all. I had loving parents that, in spite of living their lives believing in supernatural beings, they used common sense and unconditional love as their guide. I assumed that it was god as their guide when I was young and only came to realize the difference as an adult.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

For the rest of these questions, well they are really all the same. Here's a little story. I once became an "Avon Lady" when my kids were younger and I wanted to make a few extra bucks. I went to the monthly meetings where they would give us pep talks to get us to sell the products they were currently pushing. It was exactly like church! You were discouraged from asking questions that would make the products look like they weren't doing what they were advertised to do. They pumped us up with an emotional need to sell! sell! sell! Yep, just like church. That "communion" is just being wrapped up in your emotions. Religion depends on you becoming emotionally attached to these feelings. It's a frame of mind that the church depends on. I'm not saying that all preachers know this or are doing this to "scam" their congregation. They are just as emotionally attached for the same reasons.

 

I also came to realize that prayer is merely a way to talk to someone else about your problems. Call it your alter ego or your inner god. Whatever floats your boat.

 

I only stayed in religion because it was all around me. There wasn't enough reason to leave it because it wasn't harming me. It wasn't until the last several years that it became obvious (to me) that it wasn't just a few Christians that were going against Christ's teachings that were causing religion to look bad. In fact, the only Christians that don't make Christianity look bad are the ones that don't believe it literally and have questioned some of it's tenets. The louder the fundamentalist/literalists get, the sooner these Christians will realize that to truly have good morals and values, you cannot believe in a supernatural being but must, instead, look for the good with yourself. You must take responsibility for your own actions. We can do that without church, without god.

 

Those Christians are religious humanists. They may not know it because they've been afraid to ask questions. They've been afraid to look up the term, humanist, to find out what it is. They may have been told that humanists are atheists. Sometimes they are but humanism is not necessarily equal to atheism. Many humanists are religious.

 

We can have all of the feelings and emotions you described in your questions. It doesn't require god and it doesn't require church. We truly are, good without god.

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

Sorry thats a lot of questions. Im just curious to know if when you were a christian, was it all that bad? Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

 

I have had pain over feelings of hopelessness. Before and after my deconversion. It's called life. Sometimes life is very difficult. But you work things out, either by thinking them through on your own or with the help of family and friends. It's exactly the same as the way Christians do it but without putting the blame or the credit on an imaginary being. I don't miss gods presence because the only thing that was ever really there were the people that supported and loved me. They are what helped me through every thing I've ever lived through.

 

But it is bad for many, many people.

 

People with mental illnesses are told they are that way because they are sinners and the only way to be healed is to accept god.

People who have questions about religion are told just to accept what they are told. Many of them are sexually and mentally abused. Thinks it's just a few? You should look up the statistics and find out for yourself.

Wars are started because one country thinks that their religion is the right one.

People are killed, ridiculed and hated because they have a different idea of love than the current Christian norm.

 

That's just a little tiny tip of the iceberg.

 

I don't miss god's presence. I am happier and freer to do good now than ever before.

[menandgods]

Was it all that bad?

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence?

Did you ever have such close communion with Him that you cried in His presence with joy, or through healing of any pain in your heart?

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass?

Did you ever hear Gods voice in your inner man? Did words from the Bible become real and alive for you, and for you specifically?

Did you ever have strange promptings to do something or say something, then find out it was confirmation for another person, or telling them something they needed to hear just that day?

 

Have you ever had such pain over a situation and think that it was completely hopeless, and God speak to you in it and find hope, and slowly see restoration? Have you ever seen someone's life completely turn the opposite direction after meeting God?

 

 

Sorry thats a lot of questions. Im just curious to know if when you were a christian, was it all that bad? Was there any time in your lives where you did feel God close to you? How did you go from that to declaring that no Gods exist?

Do you ever miss God and his presence?

 

 

 

Was it all that bad? My experience with Christianity was a mixed bag almost from the start. I had a profoundly moving born-again experience, in which, yes, the bible and the presence of God came alive to me with all the fireworks and ecstatic sense on union with God. People around me, even those who were not christians, said I looked radiant, like I could glow in the dark! It was a wonderful time in my life. But within weeks after my conversion, troubling thoughts and doubts started to creep in. Probably the biggest thing that bothered me was the concept of hell. Even in the most "on fire for God" time of my life, I could not inwardly accept such a monstrous thing as hell. I could not accept that 95% of the human race is doomed to eternal torture with only a "remnant" of humanity escaping that fate. But "hell" was just the beginning of my doubts. Gradually more and more biblical concepts began to trouble me. My problem was never with the people, but with the bible itself and it's teachings. So in answer to your first question, no, it wasn't all that bad. In fact, it was glorious! But at the same time, it was the cause of a great deal of inner conflict - fear, doubt, and troubling conflict about various scriptures, doctrines, and biblical concepts which I spent years trying to find a way to resolve.

 

Did you ever have moments of closeness with God and his presence? Many, many times. I would pray sometimes for hours on end, communing with God, worshipping Him in the Spirit and singing in tongues. His presence felt so real. In fact, since leaving that world behind, it is the experience of the presence of God that clings to me the most, not the bible or it's teachings, but I'm gradually getting over it. I'm beginning to realize that maybe that experience wasn't an experience of "God" at all. A couple of days ago, just for kix, I decided to try to resurrect that experience. I closed my eyes, prayed in tongues and tried to "commune" with God just like I used to do years ago. And you know what? It worked! It was like I was right back there again! It confirmed to me though what I was already beginning to believe - that this "communing with God" phenomena was actually something else altogether. It's like, during those years as a christian, I subconsciously created a kind of "inner space" where I could be intimate with God. But it was really just a trick of the brain. Although it "felt" like communing with an "other", it was really just an internal conversation with myself. Yesterday I read for the first time about Dr. Michael Persinger's "God helmet". That was a very enlightening read, and it shone some new and welcome insight on the neuroscience behind the mystical experience. I needed that read. It's one more piece of the puzzle.

 

Did God ever tell you something that would happen in your life and did it ever come to pass? No. Not really. There were a couple of times when I knew something that I had no reason to know, but they were stupid things. For example, one time I was in a large auditorium filled with hundreds of people. I don't remember why I was there or what it was all about or if it was a christian event or something else. I only remember that, at the end, they gave out a bunch of door prizes. Nothing big, just little stuff. At one point, I suddenly KNEW that they were going to call my name for the next door prize. I don't know how I knew, but I knew - I just KNEW. And sure enough, they called my name. What was the door prize? A book about near death experiences. So I read the book, thinking there must be some "reason" that I needed to read it, since it had been "revealed" to me that I was going to win that prize. Well, it was an interesting read, but no big revelations or epiphanies. It was just another book. It had no lasting impact on me. Weird.

 

 

I am still not at a place where I can call myself an atheist, nor am I trying to get to that place. I don't really know where I stand on the question of God anymore. I have read a great deal of higher criticism about the bible and christianity, and am sufficiently convinced that if there is a God, if most certainly is not the god of the bible or of the Abrahamic religions. I'm not attracted to eastern religions either. I'm still searching. I can't help myself. But I have a strong feeling that when I get to the end of my life and look back, I will see all too clearly that I had wasted my whole life trying to know the unknowable, trying to search for something that can never be found, and I will realize that I have squandered the only life I had. I don't fear "hell" anymore. Now my only fear is that I've wasted my whole life searching for something "out there" when I should have just been living each day and each moment to the fullest.

 

I wish I could turn off this inner compulsion to "seek".

[notogod]

I have to answer no to it all. God never spoke to me. I always had more questions than answers and I saw such dishonesty and judgemental behavior that I began to read about Darwin,etc.in secret. Religion never added up for me and I was miserable the entire time that I reluctently called myself a christian. Yes,in hindsight, it was all that bad, but I didn't always know it. When an idea is being force fed 24/7, it can be deceiving.

[Phanta]

I wish I could turn off this inner compulsion to "seek".

 

Ugh. Me, too.

 

Phanta