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Goodbye Jesus

Brainwashing


Heimdall

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I only caught part of it this morning as I was getting ready for work, so I have no idea where in the States this is occurring, nor the names of the individuals. Some very religious father is aghast that books provided in his son’s Elementary school include some that show “same-sex” families, not only show them but show them as normal! You can imagine how tightly knotted his knickers are! The State is one of those that recognizes same sex marriages and condones the books. The school board has posted a restraining order against the father. I was “grooving” with this until a thought hit me. We are always condemning the Christ Cultists for taking young children and stuffing their heads with dogma before they are old enough to formulate their own opinions on religion. We call this brainwashing and it truly is that. Now we have a school board using the very same techniques to push the reverse of that coin. They are in effect brainwashing these children and even if we agree with what these children are being taught, is it moral for us to do so at such an early age? Are we any better than the Cultists that wish to instill their “propaganda” into the minds of the innocent? Should we wait until after the age of nine to instill this information, when the child is more mature and better able to think for him/herself? After all, they say that by age 10 your worldview is set for life, that how things are at that age is how they should be forever! What is your thought on the matter? - Heimdall :yellow:

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Sometimes the only important thing is to get the job done, no matter how. Of course it's more than questionable ethically. :shrug:

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I consider school being a brainwashing machinery, regardless of what they teach. It's purpose is to create the "perfect citizen" that fits in into the current culture, so he won't stir up any ripples or problems for the government. I consider all school systems to be working that way.

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H...

 

SkUlLeZ exist to ensure compliancy and uniformity. Oh yeah, and a baby sitting service so both Male and Female Taxpaying Units are enabled to promote the betterment of the Treasury..

 

At our local SkuLLez Admin made decision to ban *camo* clothing, was *gang wear*.

Told fools that th e biggest, baddest fukin' well armed, ready to loot 'n shoot gang wore those *colors*..

Goofy bastard looked at me, then it dawned on most of them, "Gee uS Military".

 

Beastie wears his camo pants with impunity now, as they've been told the resulting lawtwisting(s) aren't worth the taxpayers time to prosecute..

 

elBeasto has been taught a number of things relating to Freethought and the Philosophy of Not Taking Shit From Dumbasses.

Both mental and physical conditioning.. :)

 

He is expressing a desire to read thebibull. I feel at 13, with a decently made mind and a proper attitude, the reading *now* will not hurt him.

Knows that *god* is at best an abstract idea, and that it/he/she is not something that exists to blow his shit out of water if he grits teeth wrong while burning the newly dead chicken..

 

kevin, proud Dad of elBeasto, L.

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i agree with you heimdall...but one thing i think most people miss is that when it all comes down to it...who is ultimately resposible for what these children do and do not learn? the parents

 

if the parents have such a big problem with this, take the kid out of school and teach him/her yourself...dont blame a forward moving society for teaching your kid something you dont want him/her to know...teach them at home

 

do i think it is wrong for schools to show the diversity of the world...show that people can be happy by being themselves? no...not at all

 

if the christians have such a big problem with all this, show it where it counts...at the polls...if you dont like what your local school board is doing...vote them out!!! why dont you run for the school board?

 

but see thats where the problem comes in...we live in a democratic republic...and as much as the fundies completely surround us, our forefathers had the insight to develop a nation that wouldnt always be fundy run...separation of church and state...now given that, why is it that if there are so many fundementalists out there, the government and the media are so "liberal" in their eyes???

 

heres a hint...smart people vote

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I agree with everyone that all public schools are breeding grounds for the future "leaders" of this world...much like the infamous "Hitler Youth Programs" in Germany, except that the propaganda is much more subtle now. This is a tough issue for me because I am a lesbian and have a child. I don't have a live in partner right now, but I plan to and I can assure you Heimdall, it is very "normal"!

I have many friends in same sex relationships with families that would probably be happy to be able to show a family like theirs to their children coming from an "educational" source. I personally could care less...I make it my business to teach my son all he needs to know about diversity and tolerance. But that's me...it's not that easy for everyone. I just feel torn about the issue :scratch:

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When the public school system started, ages ago, its purpose was to teach kids to become better in what they were doing. Better farmers, better scientists and so forth. Today, it's just like Nivek said, it's a baby-sitting-service. A bunch-load of stuff kids learn in school, they will never use in real life, but at the same time, there's a ton of things they should know, but never get to learn, and they don't learn to think!

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WTF in todays cirriculum takes twelve (often plus) years to teach that couldn't be done in many less?

 

Christsfuckingmoosreballs Beastie is no *brain* however scores in as a high B student and glides through his classes...

 

One thing that does piss me off like a raving bastard (OK, AM a raving bastard) there is a LEGO Corporation sponsored "Robotics Team" headed up by the 8th grade Math instructor.

 

Beastie missed being picked for the Team because his math scores were *identical* to the girl(s) who were selected to be part of the Team.

 

"Huh?"

 

"We needed a better mix of male/female as part of our funding.."

 

"Huh?"

 

"It isn't that my child is LEGO whiz, knows tools, terminology, building arts, chemicals. and even *good ole fashioned common sense*, but because he is not a girl?"

 

Teach looks at shoes 'un-huh.."

 

Jebusfuckingmooseballed son of a flaming well hosed goose...

 

Instead of the best possible *wrench* for their competition Team, they have to have some fucked up *ballance* according to some arbitrary set of standards..

 

When the Teach has to ask Beast what 'this thing that steers Robot" is, (rack and pinion) then something ain'ta right in Paradise..

 

Just one example of fubar in daFatman's world..

 

k, proud Dad of elBeasto, L.

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I consider school being a brainwashing machinery, regardless of what they teach. It's purpose is to create the "perfect citizen" that fits in into the current culture, so he won't stir up any ripples or problems for the government. I consider all school systems to be working that way.

 

Yes, both of my children were perfection creations, classic terrible two'ers too, and growing so nicely, until KINDERGARTEN and 1st grade. On Paper it looks great, but in actuality, it's all an illusion. The people working schools hate their job, if you have a teacher who's teaching more than 3 or 4 years they're quite different than they and others are if they're brand new. The system beats the piss out of them until they conform too.

 

They preach in mission statements and visions to value independent thinking and diversity, and then do everything they can to squash anyone who does so.

 

My daughter had a horrible kindergarten from the start, and her teacher was there for years. I'm sure she hated being stuck in kindergarten all those years. Then in 1st grade she had a brand new teacher, the daughter of a semicharmed higher up in the system, and was cuter than Barbie (I went on ALL their class trips, she was HOT).. but the main point, she was FRESH meat, not tainted or burned out from dealing with 1st graders year in and year out. Then 2nd grade she had an old teacher.. and it was downhill from there.

 

My son's 1st grade teacher was new also but he hasn't had any trumatic experiences in kindergarten to have to be made up for. He had a more individual attitude than his sister, it took longer for them to get him to conform.

 

"They" say that kids grow up too fast 'nowadays' and blame it on the media, the internet, exposure to things we had to wait to be filtered through newsprint and tv news, but then in school they do that too. They force them to do more and more as time goes on, and then wonder why they're not all living up to standards.

 

I do NOT remember getting this quantity or time spent on MY homework when I was in school in the 60s and 70s. I don't remember having homework that NONE of my parents or siblings had an answer for, if I didn't, and needed help. But both my children have had some homework assignments and questions where, if we didn't get involved, they'd have not been able to do -- and some where we had to call up a whole lot of other people to find one that had any clue of an answer for it.

 

In spite of it all, both my children have done well in school. I tried putting my influence into my daughter's education but realized it was futile and would only cause her problems with the teachers. Instead of trying to change the world, we just used them as communication openers and taught her what we think, but that the rest of the world may disagree. When it comes to tests, you have to answer what the teacher is looking for, not what may be the truth.

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Schools are not brainwashing factories. They are simply a reflection of society.

 

As society has gone downhill, so have the schools.

 

Years ago there were 2 parent homes, mothers were at home, and drugs were a non-issue.

 

Years ago schools were part of the community, everybody knew everybody. Little Johnny did his best in school and wasn’t a discipline problem because he knew Mrs. Teacher would talk to his mother if he didn’t.

 

Years ago parents supported the schools. Today parent involvement comes in the form of-

“Little Johnny is innocent, he would never do something like that. If you punish him I will take you to court”.

 

Schools aren’t creating the problems we face as a nation, they merely reflect them.

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Schools are not brainwashing factories. They are simply a reflection of society.

 

As society has gone downhill, so have the schools.

 

Right. As seen 4 years ago, I don't think there was a conspiracy, well, maybe some foreknowledge, but more so that humans are just basically incompetant, especially as a whole.

 

It's a lot easier for things to go wrong, than for things to go right.

 

The biggest complaints I hear of teachers is their salary level. They are surely underpaid. Those who have a calling go into it with rose colored glasses, and within a few years the glasses are broken, stomped on and turned a different color.

 

It's everyone for themselves.

 

Years ago there were 2 parent homes, mothers were at home, and drugs were a non-issue.

 

They were a non-issue to those who were lucky enough to keep it underground and not get caught. People haven't changed, only what comes and goes through public eye. And today things are in public eye as soon as they happen.

 

Years ago schools were part of the community, everybody knew everybody. Little Johnny did his best in school and wasn’t a discipline problem because he knew Mrs. Teacher would talk to his mother if he didn’t.

 

There were quite a bit less people around, less technology, less gadgets, less distractions. People had each other because they were who we had. Now there's 10 times that, and most people aren't related any more. Our relatives are all spread out.

 

Years ago parents supported the schools. Today parent involvement comes in the form of-

“Little Johnny is innocent, he would never do something like that. If you punish him I will take you to court”.

 

Yeah, Not My Kid has surely changed a lot. Some were publicly humiliated, some were made to apologize, but whatever got smoothed over in public, as soon as that kid got home, most of them got whoopings.

 

Years ago we were more involved with people in our neighborhoods, many worked within the neighborhoods, now everyone gets in their car and competes with everyone else who's working somewhere else.

 

 

Schools aren’t creating the problems we face as a nation, they merely reflect them.

 

The pendulum has to swing back a bit, it's a bit far out now. What a mess we have. We went from a ragingly successful few decades to trash in just a few years.

 

Wtih 6 billion people doing 6 billion different things at any given moment, there's 6 billion different ideas of how things are. Depends on your age, location, experiences, and I dare say, religious beliefs.

 

It's as good as you want to see it, or as bad as you want to see it.. it's all out there, focus on what you will. Some of it is in your face, others you have to go looking for, or turn on the tv and let it be brought to you.

 

It's a mixed bag.

 

My 2 children seem to be handling the chaos well. They're down to earth, well adjusted, and never so much as opened a Bible, ever. They have relatives of all backgrounds, and are exposed to reality, not hidden from it.

 

Life is a Soap Opera, for sure.

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#s society has gone downhill, so have the schools.

 

You are obviously talking of the madhouses that permit nonsense to be taught as science. :scratch:

 

Well, this is exactly what happens when dogma replaces reason. Why do you jebus cultists think Hönir, Lodur and me gave you what you have now? To act like dumbarses?

 

To think of all the effort I went through so that inhabitants of all the Nine Worlds could live in honor and wisdom... only to see braindead cultists spit on it all...

 

Where's Thor when you really need him anyway? Here's one who needs a good beating...

:Hmm:

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Schools are not brainwashing factories. They are simply a reflection of society.

 

As society has gone downhill, so have the schools.

 

Years ago there were 2 parent homes, mothers were at home, and drugs were a non-issue.

 

Years ago schools were part of the community, everybody knew everybody. Little Johnny did his best in school and wasn’t a discipline problem because he knew Mrs. Teacher would talk to his mother if he didn’t.

 

Years ago parents supported the schools. Today parent involvement comes in the form of-

“Little Johnny is innocent, he would never do something like that. If you punish him I will take you to court”.

 

Schools aren’t creating the problems we face as a nation, they merely reflect them.

 

I get what you're saying, but you're only half right.

 

You're falling into the mythical 'good old days' thinking that a lot of conservatives believe. Things weren't all that peachy in times past. Drugs have always been a problem, for example, if you include alcohol as a drug.

 

In some ways, things are actually better in our schools - for example, ADD and dyslexic kids are getting a lot more help now then they did 50 years ago.

 

But I do agree parental involvement is lagging today, but I put that partially down to the fact that most parents today both need to work (sometimes more than 1 job each) to make ends meet. And most everyone has a very cynical view of public education: they figure, 'What's the point?'.

 

Our national curriculum and how it's taught is a very difficult problem that doesn't (I think) have a simple solution.

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I get what you're saying, but you're only half right.

 

You're falling into the mythical 'good old days' thinking that a lot of conservatives believe. Things weren't all that peachy in times past. Drugs have always been a problem, for example, if you include alcohol as a drug.

 

In some ways, things are actually better in our schools - for example, ADD and dyslexic kids are getting a lot more help now then they did 50 years ago.

 

But I do agree parental involvement is lagging today, but I put that partially down to the fact that most parents today both need to work (sometimes more than 1 job each) to make ends meet. And most everyone has a very cynical view of public education: they figure, 'What's the point?'.

 

Our national curriculum and how it's taught is a very difficult problem that doesn't (I think) have a simple solution.

 

Maybe that's why my household is different. I work 12-8am, I raised my son for his first 3 years during the day while is mom worked. For my daughter, 8 years earlier, she quit her job and stayed home her. We do their homework with them, probably help them too much, but some of it even stumps us.

 

I can't see how parents aren't involved. My son gets gigged if he misses a homework or a project, if other parents aren't also helping, then how are these kids meeting requirements on their own? The complexity of the projects makes parents get involved. Going to see the science fares and other frequent community things they do, I think parents are more involved, even if they both work. Or maybe it's just my area that's like this, and not all over the place.

 

I guess I should just be thankful it's not how others are describing their vision of how things are.

 

Yeah.. the old how things used to be trap. Wasn't ever better, just less complex.

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I consider all school systems to be working that way.

 

Even universities?

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"We needed a better mix of male/female as part of our funding.."

Is it some kind of affirmative action? It sure does sounds like it. They have to get that experience that early in life?

 

There's one thing that they do learn in school that is true for life: Life it's not fair.

 

You play the game with the cards you're dealt. And it starts in school. Teachers pets and all. (I probably will piss of some teachers on this site now! :HaHa: Well, to let you know, I did teach in highschool too, many years ago. And I know about state controlled unfairness in the grading system. But it was in Sweden, it could be different here.)

 

 

(edit: spellcheck. Infirmative action, what the heck was I thinking? :HaHa: )

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It is not that I have a sense of nostalgia for the “good ol’ days”.

 

Schools are like an oven. They can burn or undercook, but the key is mixing the ingredients before you start to cook.

 

Schools do play a roll in shaping the future for our children. But what comes out of the school depends more on what goes into the school than the school itself.

 

Given the proper ingredients, a good cook can take a woodstove and prepare the finest of meals. But the same cook can not take the finest stove ever made and turn cow-patties into a chocolate cake.

 

We don’t want to recognize how our children are going into the schools; we only want to complain about the way they come out.

 

No one wants to take any responsibility. We would rather blame the schools than acknowledge how Sega played a larger roll in raising our children than we did.

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Even universities?

Hmm. I don't know; maybe not, considering it has a different structure than K to 12. But I wouldn't really know, since I only finished highschool.

 

The difference would be that you can choose your plan, right? But still, the professors would indoctrinate the students in one way or another, and with the students already trained to be non-critical from the elementary school, you won't have many objections to the teachings... just a thought.

 

With the phrase "all school systems", I was rather refering to American elementary schools, Sweden, Germany, Britain, Iraq, Saudi Arabie, Cuba... Every elementary school in the world want you to learn how to become a obedient citizen, and not argue for a better political structure.

 

I'm not saying this is good or bad, it's just an observation. For social stability, maybe this is the right thing, but the flipside is that people gets docile.

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Schools do play a roll in shaping the future for our children. But what comes out of the school depends more on what goes into the school than the school itself.

 

Given the proper ingredients, a good cook can take a woodstove and prepare the finest of meals. But the same cook can not take the finest stove ever made and turn cow-patties into a chocolate cake.

 

We don’t want to recognize how our children are going into the schools; we only want to complain about the way they come out.

 

No one wants to take any responsibility. We would rather blame the schools than acknowledge how Sega played a larger roll in raising our children than we did.

 

but im sure if your child is a good christian kid, hell turn out to be a nice slice of chocolate pie?

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Schools are not brainwashing factories. They are simply a reflection of society.

 

As society has gone downhill, so have the schools.

 

Years ago there were 2 parent homes, mothers were at home, and drugs were a non-issue.

 

Years ago schools were part of the community, everybody knew everybody. Little Johnny did his best in school and wasn’t a discipline problem because he knew Mrs. Teacher would talk to his mother if he didn’t.

 

Years ago parents supported the schools. Today parent involvement comes in the form of-

“Little Johnny is innocent, he would never do something like that. If you punish him I will take you to court”.

 

Schools aren’t creating the problems we face as a nation, they merely reflect them.

So you're saying the requirement that you join PTA, and show up to every school meeting and open house, and pay for this and that to school and for a school trip here, and get involved in events in school etc, etc, etc, has nothing to do with less time for the parents? Besides that fact that kids have home work that takes 2 hours or more every days, and sometimes over weekends. They have less free time than I did in school. So if the problem is that parents have to work to afford living and having the kids in school, maybe we shouldn't have such expensive society?

 

Drugs were an issue for a long time. That hasn't changed.

 

But I agree that we can't blame the school, or society. The blame is the world we have created of consumption. We consume and spend and get toys of extreme proportions. And the school unfortunately, like you said, reflects that, by sending home Scholastic order forms, Christmas shopping catalogues, book fairs, and many other consumer events. The kids learn to adopt to that kind of society, from school. And school has adopted that ideology from society. And society, supposedly is us. The masses and majority of the wester society, have decided that this is what we want. We want to consume, and we want the kids to learn to consume and obey from school.

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It is not that I have a sense of nostalgia for the “good ol’ days”.

 

Schools are like an oven. They can burn or undercook, but the key is mixing the ingredients before you start to cook.

 

Schools do play a roll in shaping the future for our children. But what comes out of the school depends more on what goes into the school than the school itself.

 

Given the proper ingredients, a good cook can take a woodstove and prepare the finest of meals. But the same cook can not take the finest stove ever made and turn cow-patties into a chocolate cake.

Exactly. It is a machinery to create a citizen that fits society. It is in effect a mind-altering machine. You conform and adjust the pupils to fit in. More of this than actual learning useful skills.

 

We don’t want to recognize how our children are going into the schools; we only want to complain about the way they come out.

I'm not complaining, just observing. The school is the super-parent, that do raise our kids, just as much as TV does. I hear about the statistics how much kids watch TV and such. And yes they do, and they play on the computers a lot, and browse internet etc. But they still spend a good part of the day in school, and how and what the teacher tells them, they get affected by. It's unavoidable. Teaching is part of mind-altering. You change peoples opinion by perpetuate information of certain kind. Propaganda and TV commerials do work, it's a fact. And what teachers says, and what school book teaches the kids, they affect them too.

 

And I can agree, that it ultimately comes from society. But it doesn't change the fact that the school is the machine that stuffs the society norm into the kids. And that is it's main purpose, and not to make the kids become the next Einstein.

 

No one wants to take any responsibility. We would rather blame the schools than acknowledge how Sega played a larger roll in raising our children than we did.

As is seems now, the Sega generation have a better chance in the New Army, than the kids that didn't play Sega. So maybe Sega was a better education for a future career than the school?

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i think its all due to the fact that prayer was banned from school!!!

 

:lmao:

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i think its all due to the fact that prayer was banned from school!!!

 

:lmao:

 

 

Riiight... That's it. They get lower grades because they can't pray for higher ones. LOL

 

:shrug:

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The schools don’t “stuff” the children; society "stuffs" the children then sends them to the school. Again, the schools are only a reflection of society. The ingredients are already mixed before the cake is put into the oven.

 

This isn’t about PTA, fund-raisers, or teachers that “have it in” for your child.

 

It is about showing the child how to be the best he/she can be. Regardless of religion, politics, or philosophy; show the child how to live a life worthwhile. Don’t just say the words you think they should hear, then hope (or pray) the schools will do the rest.

 

School is for math, science, language arts, etc.

 

Home is for the “stuff” that really matters.

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School is for math, science, language arts, etc.

 

Home is for the “stuff” that really matters.

 

Yeah, doing homework on math, science, language arts, science projects, book reports and preparing for tests.

 

And then there's nintendo play stations cartoon network and all the games and shows thereof.

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