Daniel, a question for you.

[The Silent One]

I noticed in your ramblings, that you say you've had Jesus reveal himself to you in some manner, correct?

 

I was curious as to the experience, would you be kind enough to share it with us?

[Fweethawt]

This oughta be good.

[MQTA]

Flashing?

[daniel_1012]

I noticed in your ramblings, that you say you've had Jesus reveal himself to you in some manner, correct?

 

I was curious as to the experience, would you be kind enough to share it with us?

99986[/snapback]

 

I would love to. Sharing this always strengthens my faith. Even though I want you to notice, just as I will give this testimony and be critisized for its legitimacy thereof... do you see that as any difference than when what I do is judged as inappropriet when someone such as myself critisizes for the legitimacy of said "eximonies?" I am accused of looking for faults in the legitimacy of posing "ex-Christians," which I don't deny -- this I do indeed do, that is exactly what I do. I inspect for falsities, misconceptions, fakes, and things that are Biblically unsound -- and why shouldn't I? I am a Christian. I feel I digress, but at the same time this is very necessary to explain before I get into my testimony.

 

Jesus said in Matthew 7:19-23

 

Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

Jesus said in John 4:22-24

 

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

I would like to make two, what I feel to be, very important points:

 

1) First, a question: Who cries out Him (Jesus) "Lord Lord?" If a person 'speaks to Jesus' and cries out "Lord Lord," what does *society* call this person? Well, that's easy -- Christians do this. Christians cry out, 'in Jesus name,' "Lord Lord;" rather, according to Jesus this is what *professing Chrsitians* do. This clearly speaks of false conversion, and the parable of the sewer, which speaks of true and false conversion is the parable that Jesus said was the key to all parables. In (Mark 4:13), Jesus said, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?" Basically, if you don't understand that their would be true and false standing right along side eachother... how then will you understand any of Jesus' parables? Knowing that some will be crying out "Lord Lord," and yet never actually be a Chrsitian, is foundational. If you don't understand this, you don't understand any of the parables Jesus speaks. So, do not be surprised when I point out falsities in the supposed conversion of professing ex's testimonies here -- it is part of my faith. I will say this however, I do believe someone can walk away from the faith. Just because someone says they are an ex-Christian, that does not necessarily mean they never were a Christian. I do however believe that *most of the time* that is the case indeed.

 

2) Jesus says that there are those people that will worship God in Spirit and in TRUTH. What does this imply? Saying that there are things that go up, implies that there is a down. Saying that there is a right answer, implies that there is a wrong answer. Saying that someone told the truth, implies that the person did not tell a lie... it's real simple, I'm just laying it out. Saying that there are those that will worship in truth, only goes to say that there will be those worshiping falsly -- because God is looking for those that *will worship in truth.*

 

Now for my testimony.

 

I, like many of you, was once a false convert. I went to church occasionally, and most of my family and friends thought I was a Chrsitian. I gave them no real powerful reason to doubt that I was, I suppose. I told people I believed in God, and if you asked me who Jesus was I would say, "He died for your sins." I would pray, and some nights, boy I prayed a lot. I prayed religiously at nights as a Child. I wasn't a fool, the fool has said in his heart there is no God, and I always believed in God. I learned the Lord's prayer that my dad taught me when I was young, every single night because I thought if I did... I would be safe. I also prayed, "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep: but if I die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take." I prayed both of these prayers religiously as a child, every single night -- and if I didn't, I feared I would lose God's protection. I feared I would go to hell too. I prayed about other things too though, and I grew up believing in God. Like I said, I wasn't a complete fool, and I knew God must exist.

 

So, what happend when I became a Christian... well. I sat down, I listened, and I thought. I considered many things about life, death, my professed belief, my prayers, and God. I thought that if God was real, He was powerful enough to make Himself known to a person. Surely, a God that brought this world into existance could do this. -- I didn't deny God's power, and this was key to my conversion, and revelation given by Christ. I, in faith, called out to God to make Himself known to me. I prayed that I knew I was in need of repentance, but I really didn't know what repentance was. I said that if I knew Him, I thought I would have a much deeper devotion in my life. If I knew Him, I tried to grasp the depths of such a thought -- to say that I have known the Creator of all things. Such an event would be nothing short of life altering. But, I took into consideration what it really meant to be a Christian, as God revealed to me... and I asked for repentance. I said, "Lord, I don't really know how to pray, but if you are there... I believe you are able to reveal yourself to me, and I believe that I can know you. I believe that if you are there, you want to show yourself to me. Show me how to repent. If you are there, I don't have to worry about this because you will do it and not I."

 

That was my prayer as best I can remember it. I was much like Paul as he describes here much like Paul writes in Galations 1:13-16 "For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it; and I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with flesh and blood,"

 

I too was zealous. I too advanced among Christians around me. I too was considered by many to be a defender of the faith. Then, by God's grace, Jesus revealed Himself to me a week later after I had prayed this prayer that He make Himself known. Now, for sometime before this I had felt a call in my heart to change my life... to remove sin as I saw Jesus preached against it. Lust, hate, lying... I had been trying to remove things I knew were wrong in my life for quite sometime before I became a Christian. But, it wasn't enough. I knew I had to know Him, and I knew I needed forgiveness. -- another key to His revelation. I knew I needed forgiveness. And so, that week after I prayed... suddenly in a way I can't really explain to any of you... a revelation hit me like a ton of bricks while I was driving in my car. He revealed to me the power of the cross, the power of forgiveness, and the sin in my life that was holding me accountable. He showed me the great repentance I was in need of... and I sobbed uncontrollably.

 

I was driving to the store, and I eventually did gather myself together... and I went in to get what I needed. However, walking down the isles I didn't keep it together for long. With revelation of Christ I had just received so very fresh in my mind, I broke down in the middle of the store and had to force back the tears so I wasn't a blubbering when I went to purchase my items. Anyways, I went home -- I couldn't hardly wait to get home so I could just lay down, sob, and pray. Well, that's pretty much how it went for the next couple weeks... I would sob uncontrollably for the next couple weeks, whenever I found myself alone behind closed doors with God. There was no powerful church movement... no powerful alter call... no powerful preacher, or messages... Just simply revelation of Jesus Christ that He promised(though I knew VERY LITTLE of the Bible I previously supposed to believe in), just as what He and those who followed Christ said would happen -- as I *later read* after my conversion, and it perfectly parallelled what I had experienced so much, even though I was not previously aware of these words. The same Spirit that dwelled in them, surely now dwelled in me.

 

Anyways, over those next couple weeks... there came a hot afternoon where I was praying and sobbing... thinking of all the times I had robbed the poor of friendship, or the times I had belittled their status. The times I had taken for granted my power, and my privlidge of money (though I am/was FAR) from "rich." The times I had mocked those down and out... just being totally ignorant of them, and I was repentful in a way I had never known until Christ revealed Himself to me. As I was praying and sobbing... the tears were shut off instantly, in a way I could never pull off before. From uncontrollable sobbing, to straight faced and a sober beating heart... God told me to leave the house, and go. At the time, I wasn't so sure... but as I drove, He gave me further instruction to a specific intersection near where I lived (about 10 miles away actually). He said that there I would find a man I was supposed to help.

 

As I drew closer and closer to this SPECIFIC spot... my heart felt gripped harder and harder... harder and harder. I was telling God that, "if the man was here... I was getting out," and I repeated this over and over... more repititiously the closer I drew. As I came over the hill, and I could see this specific spot, I did see a man at the bottom of the hill holding a sign, just as I was lead to. I didn't even read the sign, I already knew I was there to help him. So, I pulled up, pulled over, and got out. I walked across the street to meet him, and I shook his hand. He looked pretty rough, poor, unkempt, and it was really hot out. I shook his hand, asked his name, and introduced myself to him. His name was Tom, and he was with a friend from out of town. They were out of gas and trying to get to a place where they knew they had work waiting for them. So, I told him whatever he needed, I was there for. Long story short, I filled up his tank in this old beatup van, got them food, drink, some money for the road, and I made sure to take time and let them know God had sent me. I explained the situation and that I was there on God's behalf, and that it was not I, but God that helped them that day... I explained that I was merely a conduit of His love toward them, and they should thank Him, not me.

 

I have further testimony... but this is enough for now. If you are intersted, I suppose I could go on. But, the truth of the matter is... is that God is looking for those that will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth... these are the seekers He seeks, and if you want to go to Him in Truth... you will know Him here on earth. All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved -- it is true, and Christ died for you.

[Fweethawt]

Christ died for you.

No he didn't.

[Fweethawt]

By the way, Danny, I won't be one to call your experience bullshit.

 

But I will say this...

 

According to what I read above, you suffered from an emotional breakdown caused by guilt and fear. That's nice. The theology is mostly created to cause that.

 

Now, your experience with the people who needed help, I won't comment on that at all. There are some really strange things that happen on this planet. However, there just isn't any honest way to align your influence to do that, with the God of the Bible.

 

I just don't see how one honestly can.

 

I mean, c'mon... The same God that told his followers to rip the babies out of women's bellies is the same one that told you to put gas in that dude's car and whatever else you did?

 

I don't think so. And I don't think you do either. Not honestly anyway...

[daniel_1012]

By the way, Danny, I won't be one to call your experience bullshit.

 

But I will say this...

 

According to what I read above, you suffered from an emotional breakdown caused by guilt and fear. That's nice. The theology is mostly created to cause that.

 

Now, your experience with the people who needed help, I won't comment on that at all. There are some really strange things that happen on this planet. However, there just isn't any honest way to align your influence to do that, with the God of the Bible.

 

I just don't see how one honestly can. 

 

I mean, c'mon... The same God that told his followers to rip the babies out of women's bellies is the same one that told you to put gas in that dude's car and whatever else you did?

 

I don't think so. And I don't think you do either. Not honestly anyway...

100045[/snapback]

 

Sometime later, as my faith in Christ brought me to prayer to God, I was praying about a lady I used to work with who had come down with cancer. I had a feeling she didn't have long to live (pretty good possibility of that considering she had cancer), and of course I felt I should witness to her.

 

I prayed about it, and I told God (rather, He told me) that if He wanted me to go witness to this lady... that he would have John (a guy from church), give me a gospel of John tract to give to her. This is something that had never been done before. John had never given me a gospel of John tract, nor did I know him for carrying around gospels of John with him.

 

Well, I went to church that next day expecting... but, nothing happened. He didn't give me one. I went to church the next week expecting... but he didn't give me one. A third time I went, and nothing... but I still expected, and Sunday morning on the forth week during church... my pastor was speaking up front and there was a box full of something at the foot of the stand in the front of the church where he was talking. He was talking about witnessing, and what a great witnessing tool this could be. What he was talking about, were gospel of John tracts. Low and behold, John was sitting directly in front of me that day... and who turned around to give me a gospel of john tract? Non other than the John God told me would give me one.

 

The same God of the OT, the same God of the NT -- in Jesus name. All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved, and Christ died for you. It is true.

[Fweethawt]

All who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved, and Christ died for you.  It is true.

No it isn't.

[daniel_1012]

BTW Silent One, thank you so much for asking me to post this, it has really helped me. God is always gracious when we remember these things of how we had been obedient, and when we had confided in Him. Look at that, in His sovreignty, God used you. He used you and you didn't even know it! It is better for those that choose to have Him use them though.

[Fweethawt]

On your second post there...

 

Are you aware of just how many other people are praying for sign and wonders, in much the same manor as you did, and are not getting any "answers" in return?

 

Are you aware of how many people go on to be continuously emotionally crushed throughout their entire lives, even though they believe the same as you?

 

Now, I'm aware that your "answers" really do go quite far to make you feel special. But I'm asking you to consider the side of yourself that was crushed beneath the weight of your breakdown. Look at them with those "eyes". The eyes of a Human.

[Fweethawt]

BTW Silent One, thank you so much for asking me to post this, it has really helped me.  God is always gracious when we remember these things of how we had been obedient, and when we had confided in Him.  Look at that, in His sovreignty, God used you.  He used you and you didn't even know it! It is better for those that choose to have Him use them though.

Actually, no. He's a skeptic. Skeptics ask questions. It's what we/they do.

 

But, anything to boast that male ego has to be from God.

[The Silent One]

Could you explain: "He revealed to me the power of the cross, the power of forgiveness, and the sin in my life that was holding me accountable. He showed me the great repentance I was in need of... and I sobbed uncontrollably." to me please. Exactly what he showed you, did he appear to you, or was it a feeling?

[Fweethawt]

Could you explain: "He revealed to me the power of the cross, the power of forgiveness, and the sin in my life that was holding me accountable. He showed me the great repentance I was in need of... and I sobbed uncontrollably." to me please. Exactly what he showed you, did he appear to you, or was it a feeling?

You can take it from here, Silent One.

 

I was just keepin' him company until you decided to pop back in anyway.

[The Silent One]

Look at that, in His sovreignty, God used you. He used you and you didn't even know it!

 

Well tell him to knock it off, would you? I don't appreciate being used without my consent.

[daniel_1012]

On your second post there...

 

Are you aware of just how many other people are praying for sign and wonders, in much the same manor as you did, and are not getting any "answers" in return?

 

Are you aware of how many people go on to be continuously emotionally crushed throughout their entire lives, even though they believe the same as you?

 

Now, I'm aware that your "answers" really do go quite far to make you feel special. But I'm asking you to consider the side of yourself that was crushed beneath the weight of your breakdown. Look at them with those "eyes". The eyes of a Human.

100050[/snapback]

 

I can't ask me to question what God has revealed to me. I'll look at them with the eyes God has given me, if I am to see at all.

[Fweethawt]

I can't ask me to question what God has revealed to me.  I'll look at them with the eyes God has given me, if I am to see at all.

 

That wasn't a request for you to "question what God has revealed to" you. That was a simple test for you to consider other people besides yourself for one brief moment.

 

You failed miserably.

[daniel_1012]

That wasn't a request for you to "question what God has revealed to" you. That was a simple test for you to consider other people besides yourself for one brief moment.

 

You failed miserably.

100057[/snapback]

 

Do you mean, other people's experiences? Well, I can't know without knowing specifics... but certainly men and women can be impressed by happenings in life. Heck, how many potato chips has Mary appeared on? People believe all kinds of rediculous stuff, there is no doubt. Jesus already addressed that issue though, and I did so in my original post as well.

 

In Matthew 7:18-23

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

Jesus addressed just that very issue. However, if I told you... "Hey, look at all these $20 bills... in this stack of $20 bills there are many counterfits. They all look the same, they all smell the same, and even though you can't tell the difference with the naked eye, they aren't real."

 

Would you say, since there are counterfits mixed in with the lot of them, it would be accurate of me to say, "hey man, don't you know about all those fake $20? There is no way real $20 bills exist."

[Fweethawt]

Jesus addressed just that very issue.  However, if I told you... "Hey, look at all these $20 bills... in this stack of $20 bills there are many counterfits.  They all look the same, they all smell the same, and even though you can't tell the difference with the naked eye, they aren't real."

 

Would you say, since there are counterfits mixed in with the lot of them, it would be accurate of me to say, "hey man, don't you know about all those fake $20?  There is no way real $20 bills exist."

 

That's the difference between Christians and ExChristians.

 

Upon finding that there really are counterfeit bills mixed in, we wouldn't take any of them at all. Each and every one of them would be suspect enough for us to say, "Wait a minute! Something is very wrong here!"

 

 

Thanks for the analogy. Through the power of your God, you have enabled me to embrace my unbelief even further this night.

[The Silent One]

Daniel, please answer my request.

[daniel_1012]

That's the difference between Christians and ExChristians.

 

Upon finding that there really are counterfeit bills mixed in, we wouldn't take any of them at all. Each and every one of them would be suspect enough for us to say, "Wait a minute! Something is very wrong here!"

Thanks for the analogy. Through the power of your God, you have enabled me to embrace my unbelief even further this night.

100066[/snapback]

 

Really.... So, because of counterfit bills in a stack of bills in which there are many legit dollar bills... the entire stack is worthless because of the fakes? Wow, if you or I ever encounter such an event in real life, I am going to be a very wealthy man (depending on how big the stack is and how many legit bills are there of course) .

 

Even if there is only 1 single, $20 bill in a stack of fakes... the legit bill still is there, it still has value, and it is still real despite the fakes the surround it. It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but it is the honor of kings to search out a matter.

[Fweethawt]

Daniel, please answer my request.

There's no time for that, Silent One. He's bringin' us back to the Lord, don'tcha know...

 

[daniel_1012]

Daniel, please answer my request.

100069[/snapback]

 

He showed Himself to me. He revealed the power of the cross to me.

 

"The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that are perishing, but to those that are being saved it is the glory of God."

 

#1, He made the cross the glory of God to me. Confirmed it's truth to me... and let me explain something to you. Jesus Christ said that if you have His commandments and keep them... you are the one that loves Him, and He would reveal HIMSELF to YOU. If then, I was able to reveal what He revealed to me, in a tangible provable way you may require... then going to Christ is nullified. You don't have to go to Him, because you could just go to me.

[The Silent One]

That doesn't explain anything. What did he do, what did you see, what happened precisely. That's my question.

 

Oh, I see. You can't tell us, because then we'd go to you - instead of to Christ... right?

[Fweethawt]

Really.... So, because of counterfit bills in a stack of bills in which there are many legit dollar bills... the entire stack is worthless because of the fakes?  Wow, if you or I ever encounter such an event in real life, I am going to be a very wealthy man (depending on how big the stack is and how many legit bills are there of course) .

Once again, you've proven my point even further. (you're getting really good at that.)

 

ExChristians aren't on the look-out for getting something for nothing. Whereas, well... You can see where this is going.

 

Even if there is only 1 single, $20 bill in a stack of fakes... the legit bill still is there, it still has value, and it is still real despite the fakes the surround it.

Tell that to the judge.

 

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but it is the honor of kings to search out a matter.

How many kings do you know that spent their entire lives searching for something that isn't there? They don't. They have other people do it for them. And while their mind is consumed with finding these things for the king, before they know it, their lives are over.

[Fweethawt]

#1, He made the cross the glory of God to me.  Confirmed it's truth to me... and let me explain something to you.  Jesus Christ said that if you have His commandments and keep them... you are the one that loves Him, and He would reveal HIMSELF to YOU.  If then, I was able to reveal what He revealed to me, in a tangible provable way you may require... then going to Christ is nullified.  You don't have to go to Him, because you could just go to me.

There you go again with your "having the commandments and keeping them" stuff again.

 

C'mon, Dan, I don't want to have to chase you away from this thread too with that particular topic.