Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Jesus quoted the law and the prophets which was the OT, if His people did what they were supposed to do then God would not have had to expound via a NT. A follower of Jesus quotes the entire bible because the entire bible is in harmony and tne NT complements the OT. Which of course, that verse in 1 Timothy 3:16 is not referring to the New Testament. It didn't exist when that 2nd century author writing in Paul's name said that. That was referencing the only scriptures that existed - the law and the prophets. The entire so-called "Bible" you believe is being referred to in 1 Timothy does not include any of the New Testament books. So, you quoting other books as "scripture", such as 1 Timothy, is blasphemy. Be careful, or the God of Love might smite you with worms. Not blasphemy, my dear Aman. As I said, the NT complements and expounds on the OT. God inspired those NT writers and they did not have teachings contrary to the OT. Some scholars say Timothy was written circa 62 AD i.e. the first century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 because the entire bible is in harmony and tne NT complements the OT. You know atheist, the only reason you feel that way is cuz atheists like to run ahead of God and go off on tangents. The meek people won't feel like you, you know. Do you consider yourself meek? Not always but I do tend to speak the atheist lingo of smartaleckanese on atheist sites, it keeps some interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Not blasphemy, my dear Aman. As I said, the NT complements and expounds on the OT. God inspired those NT writers and they did not have teachings contrary to the OT. Some scholars say Timothy was written circa 62 AD i.e. the first century. I feel God also inspired the authors of the Bhagavad Gita, so that too should be included in the Bible. It's funny that the Jews themselves, whose "Bible" the so-called "Old Testament" was, don't agree with you that those books are valid scripture. I guess its just a matter of personal belief. Yes? By the way "some scholars" also believe Jesus never existed at all. So you believe them too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Do you consider yourself meek? Not always but I do tend to speak the atheist lingo of smartaleckanese on atheist sites, it keeps some interested. Well, yes. I don't quite catch the humble meekness from you, as one might hope from someone so full of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Not blasphemy, my dear Aman. As I said, the NT complements and expounds on the OT. God inspired those NT writers and they did not have teachings contrary to the OT. Some scholars say Timothy was written circa 62 AD i.e. the first century. I feel God also inspired the authors of the Bhagavad Gita, so that too should be included in the Bible. It's funny that the Jews themselves, whose "Bible" the so-called "Old Testament" was, don't agree with you that those books are valid scripture. I guess its just a matter of personal belief. Yes? By the way "some scholars" also believe Jesus never existed at all. So you believe them too? The bible gave me evidence that made me believe its validity. The Jews did not fulfil their role and rebellion will make people not see evidence that is right in front of their faces (not saying that there aren't Jews out there who are sincere OK ). The bible has a more sure Word of prophecy which means its teachings are even more valid than an eyewitness account. Granted, there will be biases because people have different views. If a Christian is mistaken about something they should acknowledge that they were mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Do you consider yourself meek? Not always but I do tend to speak the atheist lingo of smartaleckanese on atheist sites, it keeps some interested. Well, yes. I don't quite catch the humble meekness from you, as one might hope from someone so full of faith. Man, I'm learning and humans who [edit] constantly walk around saying they're meek aren't meek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Welcome back Thumb. I guess you have licked your wounds but not come to realize that all of your debate failures are due to defending the wrong side. The bible gave me evidence that made me believe its validity. How does man made propaganda give you evidence? If you think the Bible is evidence then you don't understand what the word evidence means. The Jews did not fulfil their role and rebellion will make people not see evidence that is right in front of their faces (not saying that there aren't Jews out there who are sincere OK ). You should figure out what the word evidence means before you critique others on recognizing evidence. The bible has a more sure Word of prophecy which means its teachings are even more valid than an eyewitness account. This "more sure Word" is what we call forgery. You know, somebody writes a document and claims to be someone who is already dead. The Bible is filled with forgery. The false passages are far less reliable than a typical eyewitness account. And eyewitness accounts are the worst kind of evidence. Granted, there will be biases because people have different views. If a Christian is mistaken about something they should acknowledge that they were mistaken. You are mistaken about the Bible yet you do not acknowledge your mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 The bible gave me evidence that made me believe its validity. Because it matched a personal experience? I've experienced many things related to God, and some of them match the Bible (as well as many religious traditions), and some of those contradict the Bible, such as a God of Infinite Love sending people to hell. That's no God I know, outside of recognizing it as the god of myth of children's imaginations. The Jews did not fulfil their role and rebellion will make people not see evidence that is right in front of their faces Sounds like what pretty much all of us here are saying you are doing. What's the term Jesus used? Oh yeah, stiff-necked. The bible has a more sure Word of prophecy which means its teachings are even more valid than an eyewitness account. Granted, there will be biases because people have different views. The entire interpretation of the Bible anywhere on its pages are a matter of views. Therefore, none of it is authoritative as some "Word of God" by which you many judge another man's soul. You have to filter it through your personal views, and therefore when you say "God's word says this", you are really saying "What I think is this". That is a fact. If a Christian is mistaken about something they should acknowledge that they were mistaken. AMEN and AMEN. May the whole world rejoice in that day!! Hallelujah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Do you consider yourself meek? Not always but I do tend to speak the atheist lingo of smartaleckanese on atheist sites, it keeps some interested. Well, yes. I don't quite catch the humble meekness from you, as one might hope from someone so full of faith. Man, I'm learning and humans who walk around saying they're meek aren't meek! Which is why I pointed this out to you. Being humble just shows. You don't need to quote a verse proclaiming how different you are from atheists, being one of the "meek". I quote you: You know atheist, the only reason you feel that way is cuz atheists like to run ahead of God and go off on tangents. The meek people won't feel like you, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thumb said: The bible gave me evidence that made me believe its validity. Aman said: Because it matched a personal experience? I've experienced many things related to God, and some of them match the Bible (as well as many religious traditions), and some of those contradict the Bible, such as a God of Infinite Love sending people to hell. That's no God I know, outside of recognizing it as the god of myth of children's imaginations. It was more than personal experiences though it did include those. I liked the morality that I just was not seeing in the secular society I grew up in. There are morals that can be universal but just being a moral person can't get a person saved. I believe the bible tells the future and only a God can tell the future accurately. It is because of love that God has to send people to hell/the grave. God won't burn people infinitely, that is a myth instigated by the devils. Thumb said: The bible has a more sure Word of prophecy (http://bible.cc/2_peter/1-19.htm)which means its teachings are even more valid than an eyewitness account. Granted, there will be biases because people have different views. Aman said:The entire interpretation of the Bible anywhere on its pages are a matter of views. Therefore, none of it is authoritative as some "Word of God" by which you many judge another man's soul. You have to filter it through your personal views, and therefore when you say "God's word says this", you are really saying "What I think is this". That is a fact. No, the bible explains itself and gives good council and comfort. Thumb said: If a Christian is mistaken about something they should acknowledge that they were mistaken. Aman said: AMEN and AMEN. May the world rejoice in that day! *shrug* It's the truth and the truth sets people free, both Job and John the Baptist were mistaken about God but God told them off and they repented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Do you consider yourself meek? Not always but I do tend to speak the atheist lingo of smartaleckanese on atheist sites, it keeps some interested. Well, yes. I don't quite catch the humble meekness from you, as one might hope from someone so full of faith. Man, I'm learning and humans who walk around saying they're meek aren't meek! Which is why I pointed this out to you. Being humble just shows. You don't need to quote a verse proclaiming how different you are from atheists, being one of the "meek". I quote you: You know atheist, the only reason you feel that way is cuz atheists like to run ahead of God and go off on tangents. The meek people won't feel like you, you know. I did not overtly boast about my meekness, I told atheists that the reason they can't see the gospel is because they tend not to be meek. Meekness is a prerequsite for understanding the gospel. Jesus said He is meek, He was not boasting He was just stating it to HELP others. How am I supposed to tell the atheists to be meek by not telling them they need to be, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thumb said: The bible gave me evidence that made me believe its validity. Aman said: Because it matched a personal experience? I've experienced many things related to God, and some of them match the Bible (as well as many religious traditions), and some of those contradict the Bible, such as a God of Infinite Love sending people to hell. That's no God I know, outside of recognizing it as the god of myth of children's imaginations. It was more than personal experiences though it did include those. I liked the morality that I just was not seeing in the secular society I grew up in. There are morals that can be universal but just being a moral person can't get a person saved. I believe the bible tells the future and only a God can tell the future accurately. It is because of love that God has to send people to hell/the grave. God won't burn people infinitely, that is a myth instigated by the devils. That still doesn't tell us what this "evidence" is. Perhaps like JayL you don't want to share it because you know it is flawed and false. You know what happens to false evidence around here. No, the bible explains itself and gives good council and comfort. Which is why we have so many different denominations with so many different interpretations. It also explains why Christians with different beliefs see each other and heretics and false Christians. Your religion is hopelessly divided. This division comes from the contradictions in the Bible. Thumb said: If a Christian is mistaken about something they should acknowledge that they were mistaken. Aman said: AMEN and AMEN. May the world rejoice in that day! *shrug* It's the truth and the truth sets people free, both Job and John the Baptist were mistaken about God but God told them off and they repented. Job is a character in a story. We don't know that God told John the Baptist anything. However you are mistaken about the Bible. When are you gong to repent? If you are waiting for God to tell you off that will never happen. God doesn't tell anybody anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 MM, you have been trolling my posts for awhile now and frankly you're not listening to a thing I say, you need the HS to help you. It seems you have a lot of pent up emotions and sometimes I just think you need a hug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I did not overtly boast about my meekness, I told atheists that the reason they can't see the gospel is because they tend not to be meek. Yeah you told them something. The problem is that what you told them is wrong. It's easy to see the gospel. Just pull out the Bible and read the mess. It's right there - contradictions, vague writing, double talk, disagreement, fantasy, myth. It's easy to see. Meekness is a prerequsite for understanding the gospel. Jesus said He is meek, He was not boasting He was just stating it to HELP others. How am I supposed to tell the atheists to be meek by not telling them they need to be, huh? You are not required to tell anybody else how to live. It's not your job. However if you want others to be meek you could set a good example and stop worshiping your own imagination. How can you expect others to be meek when you act like your superego is the creator of the universe? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 MM, you have been trolling my posts for awhile now and frankly you're not listening to a thing I say, you need the HS to help you. It seems you have a lot of pent up emotions and sometimes I just think you need a hug. Hang on a bit here, if it's the HS we need, then what do we need you for? Think about it. Pray to your God to send the HS to us to tell us the truth instead of you telling us what the HS is telling you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 MM, you have been trolling my posts for awhile now and frankly you're not listening to a thing I say, you need the HS to help you. It seems you have a lot of pent up emotions and sometimes I just think you need a hug. I'm here for real and honest conversation. I've have paid very close attention to the posts I have read. And yes I have gone through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Your objections are false. That is the problem. The excuses you make are not true. You can dismiss people but so can a five year old. That is why it's a fallacy. Dismissing others doesn't make you right because anybody can do it. Now do you have any substance to offer that counters the points I raised? I think that if you had then you would have addressed my points rather than delete them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 MM, you have been trolling my posts for awhile now and frankly you're not listening to a thing I say, you need the HS to help you. It seems you have a lot of pent up emotions and sometimes I just think you need a hug. Hang on a bit here, if it's the HS we need, then what do we need you for? Think about it. Pray to your God to send the HS to us to tell us the truth instead of you telling us what the HS is telling you. I am a sinner too and can relate to you and testify about God. Besides, I talk the smartalekanese and maybe the HS won't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I am a sinner too and can relate to you and testify about God. I don't feel like a sinner, so that doesn't resonate or relate to me. And to relate, you need to have relating things to relate to, but are you really sure that you do? Do you really relate to how and why we left Christianity? I'm not sure you do, and hence, not really relating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 MM, you have been trolling my posts for awhile now and frankly you're not listening to a thing I say, you need the HS to help you. It seems you have a lot of pent up emotions and sometimes I just think you need a hug. I'm here for real and honest conversation. I've have paid very close attention to the posts I have read. And yes I have gone through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Your objections are false. That is the problem. The excuses you make are not true. You can dismiss people but so can a five year old. That is why it's a fallacy. Dismissing others doesn't make you right because anybody can do it. Now do you have any substance to offer that counters the points I raised? I think that if you had then you would have addressed my points rather than delete them. MM, all you have been doing is venting about Christianity and anytime I try to discuss a topic with you it seems you are unable to do so hence the reason I said you had pent up emotions. *sad* I know some people make the gospel seem confusing and people like yourself get weary as a result but some of these topics take time and it is not easy to relay the gospel to people who are hurt, angry and confused [edit] and off on tangents like that Centauri! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I am a sinner too and can relate to you and testify about God. I don't feel like a sinner, so that doesn't resonate or relate to me. And to relate, you need to have relating things to relate to, but are you really sure that you do? Do you really relate to how and why we left Christianity? I'm not sure you do, and hence, not really relating. You may not feel like a sinner but the bible says you are and if you say you aren't the bible says you're deceived. Look at the title of this thread, Christians believe in hell and don't want you all to go there. I see you guys left Christianity because you misunderstood God and the gospel and some were hurt too. I can relate to pain but I can't relate to ditching God because I understand His love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I am a sinner too and can relate to you and testify about God. I don't feel like a sinner, so that doesn't resonate or relate to me. And to relate, you need to have relating things to relate to, but are you really sure that you do? Do you really relate to how and why we left Christianity? I'm not sure you do, and hence, not really relating. You may not feel like a sinner but the bible says you are and if you say you aren't the bible says you're deceived. That's not how to relate to someone. To relate to someone is to connect to what they feel and think. You're missing the mark here. You can only relate within shared experiences. You're not sharing our experience, hence not relating. Look at the title of this thread, Christians believe in hell and don't want you all to go there. It doesn't matter what you or other Christians think or believe since it's known and understood by the HS. I see you guys left Christianity because you misunderstood God and the gospel and some were hurt too. How could the HS have misled us so? Are you saying that the HS only tells the truth to you but not to us? Then why have the HS if he only speaks to you? If the HS is the one to tell us and lead us, then your words are wasted (or perhaps even misleading). I can relate to pain but I can't relate to ditching God because I understand His love. But you're not relating by telling people that they're not feeling what they're feeling because you said so. To relate and connect you have to understand and ... relate. So far you've been more of a contrarian and opposing anyone's own words, views, feelings, and experiences. You're telling people they're wrong because you don't relate to them. That's the fact. So give us the HS to tell us the truth instead. Your words have no value or meaning. Your words are only your opinions, nothing else. This is what the truth is if you're right that only the HS can give us the right interpretation. Do you understand what kind of corner you have painted yourself into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 MM, you have been trolling my posts for awhile now and frankly you're not listening to a thing I say, you need the HS to help you. It seems you have a lot of pent up emotions and sometimes I just think you need a hug. I'm here for real and honest conversation. I've have paid very close attention to the posts I have read. And yes I have gone through the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Your objections are false. That is the problem. The excuses you make are not true. You can dismiss people but so can a five year old. That is why it's a fallacy. Dismissing others doesn't make you right because anybody can do it. Now do you have any substance to offer that counters the points I raised? I think that if you had then you would have addressed my points rather than delete them. MM, all you have been doing is venting about Christianity and anytime I try to discuss a topic with you it seems you are unable to do so hence the reason I said you had pent up emotions. You have not addressed any of the points I raised. Making false statements about me doesn't address any of these problems with Christianity. *sad* I know some people make the gospel seem confusing . . . They are called "Priest" or "Pastor". It is how they make their living. . . . and people like yourself get weary as a result but some of these topics take time and it is not easy to relay the gospel to people who are hurt, angry and confused. You doge issue after issue. You address nothing. When these issues about Christianity are raised you change the topic to belittle the person who raised the questions. Why is it you only want to talk about me now? Why can't we talk about the problems with Christianity? I guess that proves that you are the one who is trolling. What is the evidence you hinted at? What makes the Bible "the word of God" rather than the word of men, propaganda and forgery? Why is Christianity so divided with so many denominations having different interpretations and thinking other Christians are false? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Thumb said: The bible gave me evidence that made me believe its validity. Aman said: Because it matched a personal experience? I've experienced many things related to God, and some of them match the Bible (as well as many religious traditions), and some of those contradict the Bible, such as a God of Infinite Love sending people to hell. That's no God I know, outside of recognizing it as the god of myth of children's imaginations. It was more than personal experiences though it did include those. I liked the morality that I just was not seeing in the secular society I grew up in. Those same morals are also taught in other sacred religious texts. Do you accept that as evidence for them as well? There are morals that can be universal but just being a moral person can't get a person saved. In my opinion, true morals flow from a true heart. You can be a 'moral Christian', because you try to 'act' like Jesus, whereas in reality, I'd put the morality of pretty much every atheist I know as truer than most of those what are only moral because they want to be saved. That's just acting, not being. I believe the bible tells the future and only a God can tell the future accurately. That's crazy. What the hell does soothsaying have to do with Love? Your priorities about God are bit screwed up. You want a "prophecy"? Tomorrow doesn't exist. All there is is Now. Tomorrow is a creation of the mind, yesterday is a memory. Neither are real. Why do you need magic tricks to convince you Love is real? There is something wrong there for you to look at. It is because of love that God has to send people to hell/the grave. God won't burn people infinitely, that is a myth instigated by the devils. That's bizarre. Hell is the separation we create in our own minds, and the torment we put ourselves through fighting to maintain and preserve our sense of self - such as believing in an afterlife. Religious beliefs themselves can be the devil's tormentors in our own self created hell. God doesn't send anyone to hell. You live in your own now. No, the bible explains itself and gives good council and comfort. That doesn't mean you understanding it. I can explain myself to you, but at best you will only have an approximation of what I mean because you have your own subjective thoughts in there. It's how people understand the world. Your subjective views are always part of it. At least with me, I am here to correct your misunderstandings of what I say. Reading a book doesn't offer quite the same luxuries. Again, that you find comfort in the words, it's because you are projecting yourself into it. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but you need to recognize it's not a magic book. You are the magic. Aman said: AMEN and AMEN. May the world rejoice in that day! *shrug* It's the truth and the truth sets people free, both Job and John the Baptist were mistaken about God but God told them off and they repented. Then they don't have the Truth, since they aren't set free enough to say they are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 You may not feel like a sinner but the bible says you are and if you say you aren't the bible says you're deceived. Why should anybody care what the Bible says? Genuine question. Look at the title of this thread, Christians believe in hell and don't want you all to go there. But it's not very important to them. If you saw on the news that a toddler fell into a shaft and was trapped you would care a lot more about that toddler getting out of the well then you did about that toddler going to hell. At the very least you will take a few minutes out of your day to watch the news updates and talk about the event. I see you guys left Christianity because you misunderstood God and the gospel and some were hurt too. That is not true. Can you stick to what is true? So many of your objections are outright false. We did not leave because we misunderstood. We didn't do it for a lack of study either, incase JayL is ready to jump in. The hurt was caused by Christians like you doing what you do best - acting like a fundamentalist. However I did not leave Christianity because I was hurt. I left because I got sick of watching other get hurt. Thousands of refugees are trying to survive the mess of an earthquake in Hattie or New Zealand, or Japan, or Indonesia, and sure enough some Christian has to get up and rub salt in all their wounds and kick them when they are down. Kick them for Jesus. I can relate to pain but I can't relate to ditching God because I understand His love. Then why is there no objective evidence of this love, or of this God? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centauri Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Jesus quoted the law and the prophets which was the OT, if His people did what they were supposed to do then God would not have had to expound via a NT. A follower of Jesus quotes the entire bible because the entire bible is in harmony and tne NT complements the OT. As has been repeatedly shown on this forum, the New Testament is not in harmony with the Old Testament. The New Testament is revisionist theology which contradicts many of the precepts of the Old Testament. There is no salvation in an illegal human sacrifice, nor did Jesus fulfill the requirements of a king messiah. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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