The Cross And The Resurrection

[agnosticator]

The Bible teaches that God's judgement would be just and people will be judged according to what they have done. But Jesus does welcome a repentant serial killer like David Berkowitz to Heaven. That is the Amazing Grace of God offered to ALL sinners. But many do not accept that forgiveness. They prefer to be judged according to who they are. And they will get what they deserve - good or bad.

 

... I thought you said you were not here to preach??? Do you not think if christians learnt to tell the truth they would come across a little more credible?? I guess when your message is a lie the TRUE fruits show with it!

 

 

agnosticator was clearly confused about what the Bible teaches. It is worthwhile to correct that. As you can see, the Biblical stance is very reasonable as well as exhibiting higher ethics of mercy and compassion.

 

No I wasn't "clearly confused", I was showing you how the Bible's redefining of what we all accept as "justice" is really undeserved revenge. And the N.T. doesn't judge "according to what they have done", but what they believe and if they obey.

 

There would be nothing reasonable in this scenario: If I decided to put you in prison in place of Sam Berkowitz, then executed you for his crimes while I let him out and surgically changed the neurons that gives him the pleasure of killing people, would that be ethical and fair? He would become a different, docile person with a lobotomy and be controlled by a chip in his grey matter. Is that loving or fair of me to do that?

 

Being a good person becomes meaningless when a cold blooded killer who enjoys killing is forgiven and counted “good” because of someone else who was actually good. There is no point for Sam to be accepted as if he never committed a crime. He gets off scot free, without any consequences in the eyes of the biblegod. Just believe and ask for forgiveness. Ask even though you cannot change your desire and enjoyment for killing innocents. That isn’t love, that’s callous disregard for those victims. What is the point of letting such inhuman trash live? To prove the biblegod loves those who love to torture and kill over those that do good for goodness sake? Apparently so.

 

Human sacrifice was central to virtually all ancient religions but its purpose was to appease the God(s) in order to reap earthly benefits. There are no earthly benefits here. I bet my life that “Son of Sam” would kill again if given the chance of not being caught. The biblegod would be mistaken to forgive a serial killer, and magically change him. There is no way Sammie boy could change himself, yet for any God to change a monster into a mouse, would be pointless. It would demonstrate that the biblegod can change a murderer with His magical powers. So what. Yet the biblegod will not forgive a human who never killed and did their best to help others because of a lack of belief in a story that is not objectively real to that person. Might as well condemn him to death for refusing to believe in the Loch Ness monster.

[agnosticator]

The dude said God cannot control people when he meant (or should mean) that God won't control people and force them to worship Him for that is NOT His nature.

 

But His nature is to accept an "I'm sorry!" from serial killers. It doesn't take much to get on His good side if you're a murderer.

[NotBlinded]

You guys just like to quibble. The dude said God cannot control people when he meant (or should mean) that God won't control people and force them to worship Him for that is NOT His nature.

Actually, this is what was said:

 

I think a more correct view is that the Satan is trying to drag you into hell through deception. God is giving out a warning and is encouraging you to find the truth. God would be deeply grieved if you end up in hell. Remember, God cannot control people.

Because he is omnipotent?

 

No He is not.

[JayL]

The Bible teaches that God's judgement would be just and people will be judged according to what they have done. But Jesus does welcome a repentant serial killer like David Berkowitz to Heaven. That is the Amazing Grace of God offered to ALL sinners. But many do not accept that forgiveness. They prefer to be judged according to who they are. And they will get what they deserve - good or bad.

 

... I thought you said you were not here to preach??? Do you not think if christians learnt to tell the truth they would come across a little more credible?? I guess when your message is a lie the TRUE fruits show with it!

 

 

agnosticator was clearly confused about what the Bible teaches. It is worthwhile to correct that. As you can see, the Biblical stance is very reasonable as well as exhibiting higher ethics of mercy and compassion.

No I wasn't "clearly confused", I was showing you how the Bible's redefining of what we all accept as "justice" is really undeserved revenge. And the N.T. doesn't judge "according to what they have done", but what they believe and if they obey.

 

 

My friend, you are still confused about the New Testament judgement. Let me quote you directly from the Bible.

 

Revelations 20

 

¹¹ Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. ¹² And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. ¹³ The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. ¹⁴ Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

 

 

Perhaps it is a time to let go of the fundamentalist distortion and read what the New Testament actually says.

[JayL]

 

 

 

I see that my logical discussion has finally clarified some issue. No serious response.

[JayL]

Are you going to keep arguing about whom to blame? Or are you going to get on the life boat??

 

... a lifeboat is ONLY required when one is needed! If you REALLY think that why have you NOT covered your butt in all other religions??

 

... Its called BRAINWASH! Learn the word!! Not only are you a troll, but an idiot with it!

 

 

 

Since you seem very passionate about this point, I will take some time to explain. First of all, covering one's ass in all religions does not work. Why?? Well, because some of these religions claim absolute exclusivity. For example, you cannot be both a Christian and a muslim at the same time. Nor a Jew and a Hindu at the same time. Your idea of covering all base will simply backfire because these religions would deny you any benefit at all if you try to do so. In reality, you are left with seeking out the best option.

 

Now we are concerned with what happen after the guillotine blade falls and we pass on to ' the great beyond'. Different religions offer different version of what happens and how to protect oneself from potential risk. However I can tell you there is only one religion which center around the concept of 'defeating death thru resurrection'. There is only one religious founder believed to be still living. Muslims agree that Mohammed is dead. Buddhists agree that Buddha died and passed on. Jews agree that Moses died and was buried. But only Christians claim that Jesus Christ has resurrected from death and is still alive. That idea of resurrected Christ is central to Christian faith. So clearly Christianity stands out among all religions of the world.

 

So a logical and fair minded person should choose Christianity to address the problem of his death.

[Realist]

[since you seem very passionate about this point, I will take some time to explain. First of all, covering one's ass in all religions does not work. Why?? Well, because some of these religions claim absolute exclusivity. For example, you cannot be both a Christian and a muslim at the same time. Nor a Jew and a Hindu at the same time. Your idea of covering all base will simply backfire because these religions would deny you any benefit at all if you try to do so. In reality, you are left with seeking out the best option.

 

Now we are concerned with what happen after the guillotine blade falls and we pass on to ' the great beyond'. Different religions offer different version of what happens and how to protect oneself from potential risk. However I can tell you there is only one religion which center around the concept of 'defeating death thru resurrection'. There is only one religious founder believed to be still living. Muslims agree that Mohammed is dead. Buddhists agree that Buddha died and passed on. Jews agree that Moses died and was buried. But only Christians claim that Jesus Christ has resurrected from death and is still alive. That idea of resurrected Christ is central to Christian faith. So clearly Christianity stands out among all religions of the world.

 

So a logical and fair minded person should choose Christianity to address the problem of his death.

 

... well that answer just truly shows how christards can put square pegs into round holes! Thanks for the laugh!!

[Astreja]

There is only one religious founder believed to be still living. Muslims agree that Mohammed is dead. Buddhists agree that Buddha died and passed on. Jews agree that Moses died and was buried. But only Christians claim that Jesus Christ has resurrected from death and is still alive. That idea of resurrected Christ is central to Christian faith. So clearly Christianity stands out among all religions of the world.

 

Well, Jay, being the odd one out is not necessarily a good thing. If the Muslims, Jews and Buddhists actually have it right regarding their founders dying and staying dead, Christianity is standing out simply because it's wrong.

 

You obviously believe very fervently that death is not the end for you, and that you'll one day end up in heaven.

 

I believe that after your death, you're finished. I don't think you'll be aware enough to know that there is no eternal life waiting for you. Your brain will simply stop, and never run again, and "Jay" will be gone forever.

 

Bleak? Yes. Frightening? Definitely. But if it is the truth -- And I do think that it is the truth -- Then no amount of prayer or believing will prevent it. You may prefer to live your life hoping for eternal life. I prefer to live My life deeply immersed in the Real, with My eyes on the present moment, working and playing to enrich My own life and the lives of others.

So a logical and fair minded person should choose Christianity to address the problem of his death.

 

I think the "problem" here is an inability to accept the existence of death, not death itself.

[JayL]

So a logical and fair minded person should choose Christianity to address the problem of his death.

 

I think the "problem" here is an inability to accept the existence of death, not death itself.

 

 

Actually the bulk of argument was about some, non zero probability that hell may exist. If this life is all there is and no hell exists, I would breathe a silent sigh of relief - for many people out there. I think most people would welcome peaceful nothingness after busy struggles of this life. The horrible possibility is that consciousness lives on in a spiritual dimension. And there lie stark choices - go to Heaven to presence of loving God or plunge to hell of unimaginable horror. This risky scenario cannot be ruled out easily.

 

 

Let this video be a potential warning:

[Realist]

Actually the bulk of argument was about some, non zero probability that hell may exist. If this life is all there is and no hell exists, I would breathe a silent sigh of relief - for many people out there. I think most people would welcome peaceful nothingness after busy struggles of this life. The horrible possibility is that consciousness lives on in a spiritual dimension. And there lie stark choices - go to Heaven to presence of loving God or plunge to hell of unimaginable horror. This risky scenario cannot be ruled out easily.

 

 

 

... Jay ... once again ... go and get some counselling! Your fear is wrecking your life!

[Astreja]

Actually the bulk of argument was about some, non zero probability that hell may exist.

 

A probability of (1 - 0.999...) is non-zero. I'm not going to waste My life worrying about something for which I think the probability is infinitesimally small. I have clarinet concertos to study, cookies to bake and cat litter boxes to clean, and all of those things are more important to Me than worrying about hell.

And there lie stark choices - go to Heaven to presence of loving God or plunge to hell of unimaginable horror. This risky scenario cannot be ruled out easily.

 

If you've been indoctrinated into believing in hell, then it's not easy to rule out because someone contaminated your mind with terrifying nonsense. It can take decades to undo that kind of damage.

 

But if you're willing to see hell as highly improbable -- And to trust that any gods who might exist are compassionate and sane, and would never condemn anyone to eternal torture -- Then hell can be ruled out in an instant.

Let this video be a potential warning...

 

I listened to the first few seconds, and noticed immediately that the speaker was using a monotone brainwashing voice. I smell an evangi-rat.

[JayL]

 

I listened to the first few seconds, and noticed immediately that the speaker was using a monotone brainwashing voice. I smell an evangi-rat.

 

Old surgeons typically have monotone voices.

[Dagan]

Are you going to keep arguing about whom to blame? Or are you going to get on the life boat??

 

... a lifeboat is ONLY required when one is needed! If you REALLY think that why have you NOT covered your butt in all other religions??

 

... Its called BRAINWASH! Learn the word!! Not only are you a troll, but an idiot with it!

 

 

 

Since you seem very passionate about this point, I will take some time to explain. First of all, covering one's ass in all religions does not work. Why?? Well, because some of these religions claim absolute exclusivity. For example, you cannot be both a Christian and a muslim at the same time. Nor a Jew and a Hindu at the same time. Your idea of covering all base will simply backfire because these religions would deny you any benefit at all if you try to do so. In reality, you are left with seeking out the best option.

 

Now we are concerned with what happen after the guillotine blade falls and we pass on to ' the great beyond'. Different religions offer different version of what happens and how to protect oneself from potential risk. However I can tell you there is only one religion which center around the concept of 'defeating death thru resurrection'. There is only one religious founder believed to be still living. Muslims agree that Mohammed is dead. Buddhists agree that Buddha died and passed on. Jews agree that Moses died and was buried. But only Christians claim that Jesus Christ has resurrected from death and is still alive. That idea of resurrected Christ is central to Christian faith. So clearly Christianity stands out among all religions of the world.

 

So a logical and fair minded person should choose Christianity to address the problem of his death.

 

So just because Christianity has a unique idea of salvation therefore it must be right?

[Guest Valk0010]

Christianity standing out compared to all other religions of the world! Forgive me God that I can't be so superficial and lacking of depth.

[Prestissimo]

You guys just like to quibble. The dude said God cannot control people when he meant (or should mean) that God won't control people and force them to worship Him for that is NOT His nature.

Actually, this is what was said:

 

I think a more correct view is that the Satan is trying to drag you into hell through deception. God is giving out a warning and is encouraging you to find the truth. God would be deeply grieved if you end up in hell. Remember, God cannot control people.

Because he is omnipotent?

 

No He is not.

 

Right, I already forgot he literally said that.

So God is not omnipotent according to JayL

 

 

My friend, you are still confused about the New Testament judgement. Let me quote you directly from the Bible.

 

Revelations 20

 

¹¹ Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. ¹² And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. ¹³ The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. ¹⁴ Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

 

 

Perhaps it is a time to let go of the fundamentalist distortion and read what the New Testament actually says.

 

And we can conclude from this he isn't omnipresent either.

[ShackledNoMore]

Since you seem very passionate about this point, I will take some time to explain. First of all, covering one's ass in all religions does not work. Why?? Well, because some of these religions claim absolute exclusivity. For example, you cannot be both a Christian and a muslim at the same time. Nor a Jew and a Hindu at the same time. Your idea of covering all base will simply backfire because these religions would deny you any benefit at all if you try to do so. In reality, you are left with seeking out the best option.

 

Woo hoo!!! Finally! Jay's brain starts to work. He has had an epiphany and is capable of critical thought. Horray! There is hope after all!

 

Now we are concerned with what happen after the guillotine blade falls and we pass on to ' the great beyond'. Different religions offer different version of what happens and how to protect oneself from potential risk. However I can tell you there is only one religion which center around the concept of 'defeating death thru resurrection'. There is only one religious founder believed to be still living. Muslims agree that Mohammed is dead. Buddhists agree that Buddha died and passed on. Jews agree that Moses died and was buried. But only Christians claim that Jesus Christ has resurrected from death and is still alive. That idea of resurrected Christ is central to Christian faith. So clearly Christianity stands out among all religions of the world.

 

So a logical and fair minded person should choose Christianity to address the problem of his death.

 

Oh, wait...

[ShackledNoMore]

Actually the bulk of argument was about some, non zero probability that hell may exist.

 

A probability of (1 - 0.999...) is non-zero. I'm not going to waste My life worrying about something for which I think the probability is infinitesimally small. I have clarinet concertos to study, cookies to bake and cat litter boxes to clean, and all of those things are more important to Me than worrying about hell.

 

Correct. Moreover, there is a non-zero chance that I will spend eternity in Tartarus pushing a boulder up a hill because I pissed off some different god other than biblegod, or that the earth will be destryoed by a meteor tomorrow or that the sun will explode and it will all be over, or that my entire family, one by one, will get boils like Job and then die excrutiating deaths.

 

I do not waste my time or make myself mentally ill worrying about any of these fantastically improbable events. I too will have one of those cookies instead.

[Sirelien]

So a logical and fair minded person should choose Christianity to address the problem of his death.

 

Epic logic fail. Christianity is not the only religion to offer salvation after death. Islam offers it. Hinduism offers it. But even if we were to accept your assertion that Christianity is unique amongst the world's religions in this way, what does this have to do with whether or not Christianity is actually true?

[Prestissimo]

Let this video be a potential warning:

 

FFS JayL, You complained about Evid3nc3 having a bad taste for music, this music is downright offending, I can't watch it.

I watched the first 6 minutes no matter. And probably it's a good idea to listen to it all (but I just hate gospel-like music too much because of my past, and that's exactly the style they put underneath)

But I've read many books about near death experiences!

 

The reason I read these is because I myself had once a near death experience. I've read reports about Hell, about Heaven, and about nothing, about worlds comparable to ours but with flying and teleporting people, the list of different stories is enormous. The psychological research on these happenings are interesting too. If I add up everything I read about the subject I can only conclude it's very much comparable to dreaming.

It's possible that dreaming is a form of your soul leaving your body; scientists are in the dark still of what actually happens during sleep for we create more activity than is measured in the brain. Anyway the most solid explanation I have why people visit hell and heaven so often is because they never thought much about life after death. Either feared what was going to happen, and they only learned about the options heaven & hell.

This fear will mentally project a hell, as well as that relieve will create a heaven in our mind. It's what most of us pictured as the only two options so it makes sense we see that when we 'go'.

 

I might be an atheist, but I don't exclude life after death. Since time is not a constant, every moment of our existence has always been. From the perspective of the fourth dimension I'm already infinite, every moment of my life exists in this time-space continuum. The idea that my conscience lives on somehow is a soothing idea. And if I just vanish from existence there is nothing about me that would regret it, since I won't experience that I'm no longer there. My personal experiences with OBE is to me convincing that there is life after death. I consider the entire experience vivid and real enough to make it totally believable. It also fits the pantheistic worldview.

From a rational point-of-view I don't consider it proof, but that doesn't matter. Like I wrote, if I just vanish after death it won't make a difference. I'm just fascinated how many people experienced what I did, and how there is so much in common in the different stories. It's a great thought. It's not a goal, it's an unavoidable stadium if it exists. Hell and Heaven OBE's are not at all the only experiences, and it makes very much sense that this is a projection on what we 'think' is going to happen.

 

What the guy says in the video, that it is harder to be an atheist on your deathbed? For him maybe, but not every atheist is an ex-christian or spent as much time as I (we on this forum all toghether I imagine) thinking about death and the meaning of life.

 

---

Yes I didn't address your life boat story, the monty python vid says enough. I already responded on the life boat story in earlier posts. You just fear death and just to be sure you want a way out.

God is not in Hell right? He isn't omnipresent. God can't control people, he isn't omnipotent. And if God knows already if I end up in hell he created me knowingly that I would end up in Hell. That's just sadistic, no love involved. If he doesn't know (free will right?) then he isn't omniscient.

The three pillars of "God" dissolved.

[ConureDelSol]

Are you going to keep arguing about whom to blame? Or are you going to get on the life boat??

 

... a lifeboat is ONLY required when one is needed! If you REALLY think that why have you NOT covered your butt in all other religions??

 

... Its called BRAINWASH! Learn the word!! Not only are you a troll, but an idiot with it!

 

 

 

Since you seem very passionate about this point, I will take some time to explain. First of all, covering one's ass in all religions does not work. Why?? Well, because some of these religions claim absolute exclusivity. For example, you cannot be both a Christian and a muslim at the same time. Nor a Jew and a Hindu at the same time. Your idea of covering all base will simply backfire because these religions would deny you any benefit at all if you try to do so. In reality, you are left with seeking out the best option.

 

Now we are concerned with what happen after the guillotine blade falls and we pass on to ' the great beyond'. Different religions offer different version of what happens and how to protect oneself from potential risk. However I can tell you there is only one religion which center around the concept of 'defeating death thru resurrection'. There is only one religious founder believed to be still living. Muslims agree that Mohammed is dead. Buddhists agree that Buddha died and passed on. Jews agree that Moses died and was buried. But only Christians claim that Jesus Christ has resurrected from death and is still alive. That idea of resurrected Christ is central to Christian faith. So clearly Christianity stands out among all religions of the world.

 

So a logical and fair minded person should choose Christianity to address the problem of his death.

 

First off, Muslims also believe that Jesus Christ was replaced with either replaced with an impersonator who was killed in his place and the actual Jesus never died, but was rather taken by God to heaven OR that Jesus is dead and never rose. Not that this matters to you, but there are religions that contradict your own assumptions.

 

Second, the resurrection thing is NOT unique to Christianity. Other gods that were resurrected include Osiris, Horus, Inanna, Mithras...I could go on.

 

Here, have some sources you'll refuse to acknowledge or will just dismiss:

 

http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/

http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Jesus_and_Mithra

http://thedevineevidence.com/jesus_similarities.html

 

Don't go around thinking you are special because you believe some dude died and rose again. You aren't.

[oddbird1963]

So just because Christianity has a unique idea of salvation therefore it must be right?

 

He's just saying, "I would prefer if Christianity were true, so it must be right." There's no reason to believe one myth over another. JayL's just picking his myth and sticking to it.

[bornagainathiest]

BAA wrote...

Having settled that issue in my mind, the next question is... should I carry on feeding the troll?.

 

Centauri replied...

That's a good question.

The downside of simply ignoring a Christian operative is that it can give lurkers the impression that ex-Christians cannot address the claims of Christian operatives.

They'd have to wade through 50+ pages in order to see how superficial and shallow the Christian claims are.

The same claims come up over and over again, are addressed over and over again, and get buried in the posting history.

Until a better way can be found to hold Christians to account, I see no viable option other than continuing to respond.

Failure to respond is too easily seen as inability to respond, and for the sake of lurkers, I think it's vital that Christian claims be confronted and exposed as often as possible.

 

Firstly, my thanks to those who responded to my posting. Having thought about this issue, my considered position is as follows.

 

JayL's been exposed as a liar (masquerading as a Physicist, no less!) and a troll - reason enough not to trust him!

Adding to this, we can see that his take on scripture veers erratically between the bizarre and the ridiculous. He also continues to avoid or ignore awkward questions as it suits him. His inability to frame sensible arguments or to expound on scripture with any kind of clarity make him his own worst enemy, when it comes to promoting Christianity.

 

Imho, we Ex-Christians should encourage him to carry on, as is.

The more he persists, the more damage he does to Christianity and to other Christians who have to deal with the havoc he leaves in his wake. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm more than happy for the Christian cause to suffer at Jay's hands.

 

How will I interract with him from now on?

Sparingly, I think. Since it's next to impossible for him to write anything coherent, consistent or even halfway sensible, I'll just let this loose canon do it's destructive work. SNAFU!

 

Only when he surpasses himself will I respond.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Prestissimo]

I've taken back my stance against Jay, and will join the conversation. Except that I'll do my best to not say anything twice. I think Jay has enough open questions for now. Hope we can show him the light before he reaches the end of the tunnel.

[bornagainathiest]

(Snip!)

Hell is consequential, it actually is easier to be saved than lost, people tend to and will harden their hearts and therefore refuse salvation. If someone does not want to be annihilated then all they have to do is not even sin one time.

(Snip!)

 

Hello!

 

For those who don't know the score, Thumbelina's an Annihilationist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism

The Holy Spirit has guided her into the truth of scripture about what happens to those sinners who are cast into Hell. No. They don't suffer for all eternity. Instead, they are burned to ashes and cease to exist. They are annihilated! According to her, Hell is not forever. This is what the Bible really says and anyone who disagrees is wrong and doesn't know the truth.

 

According to her, we Ex-Christians don't know the true nature of God, which is why we've fallen away from believing in Him. Praise be! Thumbelina (with her correct understanding of God's nature) is here to save us from ourselves. If we properly understood God, as she understands Him, then we'd come back to Him. That's why she's here, to demonstrate her correct understanding over our incorrect ones.

 

Got that? Thumbelina's right and we're wrong. She's been guided into the truth by the Holy Spirit. That clear? Her take on scripture is truly Biblical, truly Christian and truly TRUE! So when she says that Hell isn't forever, that MUST BE RIGHT!

 

But wait! What's this?

Ooopsie!

It looks like other true Christians don't agree!

 

THE BIBLE SAYS HELL IS NOT FOREVER

 

http://www.tentmaker...yExplained.html

http://www.hopebeyon...the-bible-mean/

http://www.city-data...ilosophers.html

http://www.mercifult...m/eternity.html

http://www.sundaylaw...ty/lifedeat.htm

http://www.gregboyd....nnihilationism/

http://www.jewishnotgreek.com/

http://www.truthaccordingtoscripture.com/documents/death/immortality-of-the-soul-doctrine-of-demons.php

http://www.helltruth.com/

http://www.afterlife.co.nz/

http://grcog.homestead.com/destruction_of_the_finally_impen.htm

http://www.friendsofsabbath.org/Further_Research/Bacchiocchis%20Research/Immortality%20or%20Resurrection.pdf

 

THE BIBLE SAYS HELL IS FOREVER

 

http://www.intellect...rticle3610.html

http://www.bible-res....com/hell5.html

http://home.earthlin...ilationism.html

http://www.bible.ca/...ion-refuted.htm

http://www.tektonics.org/af/annix.html

http://www.ellopos.n...sp?TOPIC_ID=197

http://shalach.org/H...reek%20aion.htm

http://stempublishin...INE/31003E.html

http://www.textexcav...verandever.html

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/october23/1.30.html

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1998/october5/8tb092.html

http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/article/hell-and-annihilationism/

 

Yes folks!

Just like Thumbelina, all of these other Christians know God's truth.

Just like Thumbelina, all of these other Christians are right about scripture.

Just like Thumbelina, all of these other Christians have been guided by the Holy Spirit.

Just like Thumbelina, all of these other Christians see the truth of the Bible.

 

So why don't they agree about Hell?

Does the Bible say it's forever or doesn't it?

Why is it that any Biblical topic will have dozens of different "true" Christians, all shouting that they have the truth and the others have erred?

 

Guess what? IT'S ALL CRAP!

The Bible is so contradictory, so vague and so confused that you can cut it any way you like and still say you know it's truth.

So please, pay no attention to Thumbelina. She's just one voice in an ocean of different opinions and interpretations.

She knows the truth?

 

Don't make me laugh!

 

 

BAA.

[Prestissimo]

I applaud to your evidence based argument. Well done sir