believer Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 It seems to me like you atheists and agnostics are ignoring the facts, theological discussions aside. Jesus dying on the Cross and rising from the dead is a historical fact. There is an empty tomb in Israel today, and it was the very same tomb that they put Jesus in for three days. If a man rising from the dead doesn't prove the reality of God, I don't know what does. Not to mention the fact that during his ministry Jesus claimed to be God, the great I AM of Exodus 3:15 (John 8:58-59). Not to mention what scientists have found in the simple cell, that it is more complex than a space shuttle in its make-up. That's the building blocks of life. How did it evolve? I don't see the logic in any view except intelligent design. Jesus' life, death, and resurrection changed the course of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted October 26, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2011 It seems to me like you atheists and agnostics are ignoring the facts, theological discussions aside. Jesus dying on the Cross and rising from the dead is a historical fact. There is an empty tomb in Israel today, and it was the very same tomb that they put Jesus in for three days. If a man rising from the dead doesn't prove the reality of God, I don't know what does. Not to mention the fact that during his ministry Jesus claimed to be God, the great I AM of Exodus 3:15 (John 8:58-59). Not to mention what scientists have found in the simple cell, that it is more complex than a space shuttle in its make-up. That's the building blocks of life. How did it evolve? I don't see the logic in any view except intelligent design. Jesus' life, death, and resurrection changed the course of history. Hi believer! Wecome! thanks for the post!! ............ Now I believe again! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Are you telling me the truth, or just being sarcastic? Be honest. Belief or unbelief is a matter of the heart, the unmistakable evidence of what I told you may be unmistakable, but whether you believe or don't believe is based on choice. Also, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Such a quick return to faith to me seems kind of unreal, although it is possible. I don't think you were able to make a conscious decision to receive Christ again (if you ever did in the first place) as Lord of your life in such a short moment of time. But I could be wrong: you tell me: is Jesus Christ your Lord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted October 26, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 26, 2011 Are you telling me the truth, or just being sarcastic? Be honest. Belief or unbelief is a matter of the heart, the unmistakable evidence of what I told you may be unmistakable, but whether you believe or don't believe is based on choice. Also, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Such a quick return to faith to me seems kind of unreal, although it is possible. I don't think you were able to make a conscious decision to receive Christ again (if you ever did in the first place) as Lord of your life in such a short moment of time. But I could be wrong: you tell me: is Jesus Christ your Lord? You promise to read this first and then I'll get back to you! http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/page__fromsearch__1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Okay. It's a choice. Jesus come in to my heart... I believe... I believe... I believe... Nothing happened. I still don't feel that I believe. So how can it be a choice? I tried. It didn't work. So now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Start reading your Bible like it's the word of God. That's a choice too, and as I said before, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Start with John 7:17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryper Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 YAY!!! another TROLL! :casts sunlight: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Margee, I read your post. My question is, was there ever a moment that, by faith, you received Jesus as your Lord and thus as your Saviour? It is a matter of the heat because if Christ is Lord of your life He is going to make demands on your life. Also read Matthew 12:29. The sign of the prophet Jonas is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If it offends you that Jesus calls you wicked and adulterous, I'm sorry. You seem like a sweet enough person to me, but only He knows your real heart. I know that my heart is still deceitfiul above all things and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9), even after coming to the knowledge of my Saviour. The key is to put on the new man every day by reading your Bible as a devotional every morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Does calling me a troll make you feel better about your unbelief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 In case you didn't want to look it up, John 7:17 declares that if you will to do God's will, you will know whether the doctrine of Jesus is true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Start reading your Bible like it's the word of God. That's a choice too, and as I said before, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Start with John 7:17. So I have to believe before I can believe? First I have to believe the Bible is God's word (when I don't even believe God exists), and then read that book (that I'm supposed to try to believe in) and then I will start believing? Now we're talking serious paradoxes. What comes first? Belief or reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted October 27, 2011 Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2011 Margee, I read your post. My question is, was there ever a moment that, by faith, you received Jesus as your Lord and thus as your Saviour? It is a matter of the heat because if Christ is Lord of your life He is going to make demands on your life. Also read Matthew 12:29. The sign of the prophet Jonas is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If it offends you that Jesus calls you wicked and adulterous, I'm sorry. You seem like a sweet enough person to me, but only He knows your real heart. I know that my heart is still deceitfiul above all things and desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9), even after coming to the knowledge of my Saviour. The key is to put on the new man every day by reading your Bible as a devotional every morning. Believer I am so sad that you did not see the sincereity of my heart in that letter - did you REALLY read it? I was a very dedicated christian who practically cut my heart out for god, let alone just ask him in!! Now, my next question: do you believe that the bible is the absolute word, spoken and inspired by god himself? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 In case you didn't want to look it up, John 7:17 declares that if you will to do God's will, you will know whether the doctrine of Jesus is true or not. If God exists, I'm exactly where God wants me. So I'm doing God's will. Who are you to challenge God's wisdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I know that my heart is still deceitfiul above all things and desperately wicked And yet you want us to trust you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I didn't say that I want you to trust me. That wickedness applies to my old man only anyway. My new man is who I am in Christ, and him you can trust to bring you the message faithfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 God does exist, and you are not exactly where God wants you, because you have chosen to reject Him. You can't blame your rejection of God on God. Let God be true but every man a liar. In His sovereignty He has given man a degree of sovereignty because God values freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I didn't say that I want you to trust me. That wickedness applies to my old man only anyway. My new man is who I am in Christ, and him you can trust to bring you the message faithfully. I can't believe what you're saying because you're a deceiver and a liar (according to yourself). So are you telling the truth that you are lying or are you lying about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 God does exist, and you are not exactly where God wants you, because you have chosen to reject Him. If God exists and everything is planned, sure I am exactly where he expected me. Or are you saying God is a liar? And I didn't choose to reject him. You know nothing about me. If you're throwing asshole assumptions about me, I can too. You believe in Jesus because you're crazy. You can't blame your rejection of God on God. Let God be true but every man a liar. In His sovereignty He has given man a degree of sovereignty because God values freedom. The Universe is God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 Dearest Heavenly Bible God, Father, Jehovah, Jesus, Holy Spirit, The Creator of the Universe, I come to you with the utmost sincerity of my heart, to talk with you. I have wanted to please you all my life. I have searched for you all my life. I have wanted to be one of your chosen. I never wanted to even worry on this earth about going to your hell. So I tried to be good. Yes, I screwed up quite a few times, made quite a few mistakes, but they told me it was because I was 'blood and 'flesh' and that you were like the potter, taking this ‘blob’ of sinful clay and turning me into a diamond. I have always asked for your forgiveness and to give me another chance to prove myself unto you. I always wanted to strengthen and prove myself for you – but you did not want to prove yourself for me, no matter how much I prayed. First of all, God doesn't need to prove Himself to anyone. The fact that you asked Him to prove Himself to you proves that you didn't really believe at all, you just thought you did. Also, you never had to prove yourself to Him, all you had to do was receive Him by faith. You had religion and not relationship. If you had had relationship and not religion, you would have known that salvation is by grace through faith and the free gift of God, all you ever had to do was receive Him and the gift of salvation. But instead, it seems to me that you kept asking God to prove to you that He is who He says He is before you take that step of faith. But faith is not like that; it has to be blind (see 2 Corinthians 5:7 and John 9:40-41) Once you take the step of faith He will start to reveal all kinds of things to you. It is not "Seeing is believing," but "Believing is seeing" I can testify to this, for I have seen true miracles happen; but if I didn't have faith in Christ I might have passed them off as chicanery. Please forgive me for missing any signs that you did try to give me. I have also, throughout the last 30 years, asked for more faith because I always felt as if I didn't have enough. I was honest with you about this. I told you everything. I confessed everything. I was told by many, that the 'mustard seed’ was good enough and that's all I had to have. But I wanted more than a seed of faith. I wanted big faith; enough to convince my mind of you, enough to stop the questions that I continued to drive you crazy with. Enough to move all the mountains in my life. You didn't miss any signs because God didn't give you any except for one, just like He does with every unbeliever. You must have known about the historicity of His death on the Cross and HIs resurrection; why didn't you believe that sign? Please tell me when you answer. Please forgive me for this lack of faith that I had during all the past years. I even joked with you, so many times that YOU were the one who gave me this inquisitive personality. You are supposed to be all powerful and therefore you could have changed me. I asked you to change me. Why didn't you? Why did you hesitate? Were you testing me all along like you did your servant, Job? I was even straightforward about that and told you that I would not pass that kind of test. Then I asked you why you would even want to test us? Why would you – a loving, kind father, even allow this devil you allowed to fall from grace, sit by our side and watch as we suffered through many horrific things in life? We are your children. You made us. You created us. You didn’t answer. Maybe God considered you righteous at some point, because the scripture says that God tests the righteous. Yes, God tested you as Job. It is not His fault that you couldn't handle the test. In fact, by testing you at all He was complimenting you as righteous. Please forgive me for my reservations with this issue. Now I am learning that you might not be there at all. You have watched me at my computer. You have seen the research I’ve been doing in the past 5 years. You have seen and hear me questioning the bible since the night I was ‘saved’. I have asked you a hundred times in the last year to show yourself to me. I have screamed in agony. I have told you that are about to lose me. I have asked you if you care that I am falling away from the faith. And still you do nothing. You don’t even kill me. I was honest before you concerning this ‘doubting Thomas’ syndrome. Were you really saved if you were questioning the Bible? See 1 Thessalonians 2:13. Were you falling away, or did you simply lack faith altogether? Can you really see what’s in my heart? If you can, and you are truly a loving entity - will you please forgive me? You give me no clues whatsoever. The world is falling apart. We are killing each other. There are murders, rapes, poverty, and slavery. There are people fighting over whose land is whose and bombings everywhere. Do you see this? There is torture, starvation, cancer, drowning, dismemberment, and very painful diseases. You are supposed to be ‘all knowing.’ You could give us the cure for cancer and yet you remain silent. There is an epidemic of depression and suicide and thus far - you do nothing. How could a good and powerful God who loves you stand aside, unmoved to action, while such things happen? This is a hard question to answer except to say that all of this suffering is the result of sin, and God calls people in the church to do their part to alleviate these sufferings. God heals people of cancer just by touching them. I wonder if people would give God the glory for such a thing if there was a cure. And it isn't true that God does nothing. He is working through His church to bring relief to many countries. Please forgive me for being angry at you. My biggest problem with you is you are supposed to be all powerful, you are supposed to be all good and yet all this evil exists. They have reassured me that when I get to heaven, you will explain all these mysteries to me. Why wait? Why not explain them to me now? Why not appear at the bottom of my bed in the late of night to have a talk? Why not appear in the sky (or wherever), even one community at a time and tell us that ‘’you will bring all things together for good’’ as you promised in your bible. So many unanswered prayers. I'll give you a little talk on His behalf right now, for it is true that God uses people to speak the truth to others. All of the atrocities you see are the result of sin and the curse in Genesis 3. I don't know how you could have been a Christian for very long and not know this. Revelation declares that it will all pass away for the saints, but that unbelievers will experience hell and then the lake of fire forever. If you believed God when He said this I don't know how you could have turned your back on God. All the evil you see will be separatd from all that is good, but God is alowing it to be for the time being because He doesn't want to destroy the wheat with the chaff. Please forgive me for questioning your invisibility and indistinguishable lack of presence. You are hiding from me so effectively, that the world looks just as I would expect it to look, and be, without a God running the show. It doesn’t have any of the characteristics I would be anticipating to find, if there was a caring, intervening, superseding God. All of my attempts to confirm your existence have come up empty handed. You are hiding so successfully. I have to admit that in order to believe like I did for years, I must do it by ignoring the contrary evidence. I must resolve to this concept called ‘faith’. You are hiding so stubbornly, I must conclude, among other things, that you do not want or care if I believe anymore. If you wanted me to believe, you think would show me evidence in a thousand obvious ways, because my heart has yearned for the proof. Maybe you were telling me the truth when you said that you believe again, because I gave you the proof in my post. Yes, He is a God who hides Himself, it even says that in Isaiah. But He also reveals Himself to people who receive Him by faith (not by sight--2 Corinthians 5:7, Proverbs 3:5). He has revealed Himself to me in powerful ways. Please forgive me for giving up the search. One last quick discussion. Why didn’t you make us the way you wanted us to be in the first place? It could have been so simple – you are god! Why tempt us in the garden? Why make hell? Why scare people? Why would you do this to us? I have been taught that all who accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour will go to heaven, but the amount of reward in heaven will be directly related to how closely each one followed God's will in his life. I really tried to do this. Likewise, all those who reject Jesus Christ will go to hell and will be punished to the degree of how much evil they committed in their life. Why did you need to resort to human sacrifices to ‘satisfy’ the sin disease - which you created and tempted us with in the first place? Why be so cruel? Obviously, I will go to this hell you created for people who reject. It’s not that I want to reject you – I just don’t trust you anymore. Trust is reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, of a person or thing; confidence. It is the confident expectation of hope that someone really cares for your well-being. It gives you confidence in the certainty of the future. It is a loving person on whom God started out by creating angels, but pride came into Lucifer's heart and he rebelled. So God worked out a plan to prove His goodness which Satan had called into question. Believe it or not, the things that happen on earth are a testimony of the goodness and grace of God. Good things do happen to people on earth, and His kindness leads them to repentance. And there was only one sacrifice, and the sacrifice was fully God. What is it to you that He was also 100% Man? Please forgive me for not trusting you anymore. I loved you for a long time and yet, you scare me with hell? And then you tell me that you are a loving God. Would you be affectionate and forgiving enough to take my hand and walk in hell with me? I really wanted to believe in your existence, but you have gone to extraordinary lengths to make that difficult for me. The world looks just like there is no Bible God to me and I am heartbroken. It saddens me Jesus went to hell for you. No one goes to hell without passing by the mercy seat. Salvation is a free gift. Somehow the last part of that got erased or I would respond to it. One last prayer of forgiveness: I pray that you will understand all my questions and forgive me for not believing the ‘Holy Bible’ that I was brought up to believe in. I am asking for your forgiveness for my doubting. I am asking for forgiveness for not really believing in you – but please – before I end this letter – would you always try to remember the heart that searched long and hard for you? I will forgive you – if you will forgive me. He will forgive you, if you appropriate His blood by faith. It is the only thing that brings forgiveness from God. And by the way, God doesn't need you to forgive Him, because He is perfect in every way, and cannot sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Blah blah blah blah... Zombie, death, drinking blood, crucifix, horcrux, Harry Potter Jesus, ... Blah blah... Just believe in magical pixie dust and you'll be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 No, not magical pixie dust. It's that God suffered in your place to redeem you from hell. What, you think it wasn't painful for Jesus to shed His blood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 27, 2011 Super Moderator Share Posted October 27, 2011 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 No, not magical pixie dust. It's that God suffered in your place to redeem you from hell. What, you think it wasn't painful for Jesus to shed His blood? There are worse and more painful ways to die. Besides, he was only dead for 36 hours (supposedly), so God revoked the payment. It's like putting a coin on a string and pay the parking meter, then pull the coin up again. It's unethical and no real payment was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believer Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 If God exists and everything is planned, sure I am exactly where he expected me. Or are you saying God is a liar? The argument is falible. As I said before, God has given you the freedom to make your own choices, even choices that don't please Him. And I didn't choose to reject him. You know nothing about me. If you didn't reject Him, you received Him, and your profile doesn't testify to that. And I know about you what your profile says in plain view of everyone. If you're throwing asshole assumptions about me, I can too. You believe in Jesus because you're crazy. If I am beside myself, it is for God; but if of sound mind, it is for you. 2 Corinthians 5:13 God has not given me the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 If God exists and everything is planned, sure I am exactly where he expected me. Or are you saying God is a liar? The argument is falible. As I said before, God has given you the freedom to make your own choices, even choices that don't please Him. I didn't choose to lose my faith. And I didn't choose to reject him. You know nothing about me. If you didn't reject Him, you received Him, and your profile doesn't testify to that. And I know about you what your profile says in plain view of everyone. What does my profile say that suggest otherwise? If you're throwing asshole assumptions about me, I can too. You believe in Jesus because you're crazy. If I am beside myself, it is for God; but if of sound mind, it is for you. 2 Corinthians 5:13 God has not given me the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7 Yeah. You are full of fear. I'm not. You believe because death scares you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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