Please Present The Best Explanation For Our Existence

[Astreja]

First of all : christianity is NOT science.

Y'know, that's the first halfway accurate thing you've said since you got here.

Secondly. You have not been capable, not even in the slightest manner, to come up with a explanation, that justifies to endorse naturalism.

Were you not reading My posts? I clearly stated that naturalism appears to be considerably more plausible than the god of the Bible, and "better than the alternative" is good enough for Me.

Third : You have no evidence whatsoever to claim christianity is just superstition.

Dead people do not come back to life... except in story books.

People do not walk on water... except in story books.

And I would like a Talking Snake™, please.

I have experienced the God of the bible in so many different ocasions, and so many different ways, no way someone like you to be able to convince me my faith is superstition.

I think you imagined this god of yours. Seriously. I think your so-called "experience" is no more than a brain fart.

Forth : Its plain ridiculous to call christianity immoral, specially, faced the two major commands of Jesus, which are to love God, and our next. It seems what moves you is blind, irrational hate.

Yes, I hate Christianity -- But it is an informed and rational hatred. It has been a blight on humanity for nearly 1700 years now, no thanks to Constantine.

 

As for Jesus, it is a well-known tenet of mainstream Christianity that non-belief condemns the non-believer to eternal torment. A god that would facilitate or condone such a thing would be the most evil entity in the universe, and anyone who continues to worship such an entity is, in My eyes, completely untrustworthy.

 

Finally, it's absurd to "command" someone to love.

Forth : please show in what way and kind atheism has been able to promote a better life on earth.

Well, atheists are not known for inflicting grievous psychological harm on children by threatening them with hellfire. That in itself is a considerable improvement on Christianity.

Your world view does not even pass the truth test...

(reaches for Her Clue-By-Four) *BONK* You have no fucking idea what My world view actually is, you self-righteous buffoon, other than the fact that I don't believe in your imaginary friend.

Atheism/naturalism does not propose there is somebody that can help us in a concrete manner.

That's because atheism is a statement about non-belief in gods, and naturalism is a statement about the nature of reality. Do you cuss out the plumber when he refuses to shingle your roof, or try to have your doctor arrested because he won't come to your house to prune the hedge?

There is nothing, that could help somebody to improve life in whatever kind.

If you really believe that, then stop going to the doctor. Don't bother going out to buy groceries. Quit your job. Toss your video collection out the window. Stop visiting your friends. Don't even bother going to the bathroom, but just sit there in your unwashed clothing and meditate on the fact there is nothing you or any other mortal can do to improve your lot. That is the consequence of what you have said -- Stop taking any action in the world, and let your Sky Daddy kiss it better.

 

The truth of the matter is this: Humans, not gods, appear to be the architects of all goodness on this planet. Goodness is not a gift from the gods, but the result of thoughtful action. Atheism facilitates improved morality and accountability by debunking the ludicrous idea that humans were born evil and cannot do anything right on their own.

3. According to Pascal Wager's, yours is a very bad bet. If you are wrong, you face a eternity in hell.

Booga booga to you, too. Now I *know* you're desperate to score a point against Me -- You've clumsily revealed the fact that yes, you do indeed worship a hell-creating deity; and that you're not above resorting to Argumentum ad baculum.

 

Unfortunately for you, you just made Me smile. I've already taken a vow to go to hell deliberately if it actually exists, until all other sentient beings have been liberated from the place.

[Astreja]

(continued from previous reply)

We are all sinners, atheists or not...

Nonsense. A truly powerful, omniscient god cannot be injured by or surprised by the bad behaviour of mortals. Sin is a myth.

That shows, even if i could prove you the God of the bible is the true one, you would prefere not to live with him.

This is 100% correct -- I have no intention of spending Quality Time with the god of the Bible. Dear, sweet uncle Loki, if the god of the Bible actually did exist I would have to throttle the bugger with My own hands and toss 'im into a supernova somewhere to save the universe from its unholy wrath.

I am not here to try to convert someone

That's interesting... Just a few seconds later, you go on to say this:

I am here to tell you that God loves you, and its my concern to give others the choice to find, what i have found most precious in my life : Jesus Christ.

B.I.G., you're busted!

I think you have only been able to illude yourself, make yourself believe, you killed your conscience - i don't think that is a good thing.

*I* think you're wrong, as My conscience is alive and very well, thankyouverymuch. For one thing, I have not consented to let an innocent man die in My place to save Me from the wrath of a mythical torturer-god.

 

You, on the other hand, have proven yourself to be a liar. You're also not above psychological abuse, as evidenced by your Pascal's Wager threat.

 

B.I.G., you've done a smashing job of testifying why no one should waste another second of their lives on Christianity. For your good work here, may you lose your faith and never regain it.

[Brother Jeff]

This is the best explanation for our existence. It was dictated by the Holy Spook to an anonymous nomadic, tent-dwelling sheep herder thousands of years ago, so it must be true. We know that it was dictated by the Holy Spook because the Book of Myths says so and we know that the Book of Myths is the Holy Farter's Word because it says so.

 

Before the Beginning, an All-Powerful Magical Being was sitting on his ass in a Land called Nowhere for a very, very long time, although there was no time yet, and time cannot exist in Nowhere. This Magical Being, being magical in nature and bored stiff from doing nothing in Nowhere for a hell of a long time although there was no time to enable him to do anything or to even notice that he was bored doing nothing in Nowhere, decided to be true to his magical nature, and work some magic. As the Magical Being opened his mouth to talk to himself and think out loud while wondering what he should do, the beans that he ate for dinner worked their own special magic, and he spontaneously and unexpectedly emitted a Great Juicy Magic Fart. This Great Juicy Magic Fart, the explosion that we euphemistically call the Big Bang, expanded into the Universe that we live in. This Great Juicy Magic Fart, totally unplanned as it was, caught the Magical Being quite by surprise. He looked at the expanding emission from his ass and said, "Holy Shit! I created the Universe! Glory!"

 

As the Great Juicy Magic Fart Universe expanded, some of the shit solidified and became galaxies. Some of the smaller shit solidified and became suns and some of the even smaller shit became planets. The shit that was even smaller than the other previously mentioned shit became asteroids, comets, and other assorted space shit. Of course, other shit happened too, but that covers the most important shit in this simplistic shitty creation myth that perhaps someday some Shit-filled Fundies will ludicrously take very seriously as Divine Truth. There was enough shit in the Great Juicy Magical Fart to form an enormous universe composed of approximately 125 billion galaxies. Our galaxy is the only one of any importance to the Magical Being, and then only one planet in one solar system in that one galaxy euphemistically called the "Milky Way" after the Magical Being had a bout of diarrhea while in the vicinity is actually of any great importance. Those other 124,999,999,999 galaxies are simply a bunch of basically useless space shit that is good for glorious window dressing to be observed from our vantage point on this one relatively very small piece of solidified magical shit called Earth, but not much else. Anyway, as the Earth cooled from the heat generated by the Great Juicy Magical Fart, it just happened to be at the right distance from the larger and hotter piece of shit called the Sun for something truly magical to happen upon its cooling surface. The Magical Being, being quite pleased with the outcome of his accidental but truly Magical Fart, reached down into a pool of shit and caused some molecules of shit to come together to form this totally new shit called LIFE.

 

This new shit called life turned out to be Magically Tenacious. Against all odds, it survived the hostile environment that the Magical Being had created it in, and it got better and better over time. Before too long, at least on the Magical Being's time scale, single-celled life forms emerged that were able to swim and survive in this shit called water. Another form of life called plants also formed and survived by soaking up invisible shit from the really hot piece of shit called the Sun with shit projections called leaves. This Magically Tenacious LIFE progressed into better and better forms of shit. Some really enormous pieces of shit called dinosaurs ruled the planet for millions of years until the Magical Being said, "Fuck this shit! It's no good!" The Magical Being lassoed one of those pieces of shit that we call asteroids and hurled it at the piece of shit called Earth. The smaller piece of shit struck the much larger piece of shit called Earth with tremendous force, and spewed all kinds of shit into the Earth's atmosphere. The dinosaurs looked up as the smaller shit streaked through the sky headed for impact in the Yucatan Peninsula. They collectively sighed with resignation at their unavoidable fate but cried out to the Magical Being in terror and anger saying, "FUCK YOU, MAGICAL BEING!!" The Magical Being, being heinously evil, didn't really give a shit and shouted back down and sayeth unto them, "EAT SHIT AND DIE, DINOSAURS!!" After this shit happened, the Earth gradually recovered and shit. Now that the enormous pieces of shit called dinosaurs were no more, there was room and opportunity for smaller pieces of shit called mammals to form and eventually rule the planet and shit. Most of these life forms were just dumb shit. But, several million years ago, some of this dumb shit started getting smarter and shit and became primates. These primate shit things got bigger and smarter and the Magical Being just sat back and really didn't do much until 6000 years ago. It was at that time that He said, "Shit! I had better interject myself and do something with this shit and give it some Magically Divine direction and shit."

 

The Magical Being looked at the primate shit things and decided arbitrarily to use them for a model for this new idea that he had dreamed up recently while taking a shit. He reached down into the Earth and scooped up some shit. The Magical Being formed something that looked very much like the other primate shit things, but this shit was the best yet! The Magical Being endowed this superior primate shit life with an intelligence sort of like his own in a distant and mystical sort of way, but with no magical powers. But, he made sure that this better primate shit life would survive by giving it compatible tools that made them feel REALLY GOOD when they came together periodically to make some more superior primate shit things just like themselves. The Magical Being was thrilled! He looked around at the shit that he had created and said, "This shit is fucking awesome!" The Magical Being and the shit that he had created on the Earth lived together for a while in perfect harmony, but as it always does, shit happened! The Talking Snake, a previously unknown piece of shit, meandered into the Realm of the Magical Being on Earth and spoke with the shit things called Adam and Eve. Now Eve was a particularly dumb blond piece of shit who didn't know better than to listen to the Talking Snake, who always lies. The Talking Snake informed Eve that the Magical Being was holding out on her and Adam and that they should eat of the shit from the tree that the Magical Being had forbidden them to fuck with. Eve replied and said, "The Magical Being said not to fuck with that shit or we would surely die!"

 

The Talking Snake informed Eve that the Magical Being did not have their best interests in mind, and that he wanted to keep them from experiencing their full potential and shit. Eve decided, "What the fuck? It looks good and shit." So, Eve ate some of the shit from the tree that she had been warned not to fuck with. Adam came back from doing some other shit somewhere else and found Eve eating the shit from the tree that she wasn't supposed to fuck with. Adam was like, "What the fuck is this shit?" Eve explained the situation to Adam, and since Adam could readily observe that Eve had not died and shit, he was like, "Shit! Let me have some of that forbidden shit from the tree that we are not supposed to fuck with!" Adam chomped down on the forbidden shit, and about this time the all-knowing Magical Being boomed out, "Adam, where the fuck are you?" Adam was momentarily taken aback at seeing the all-knowing Magical Being mystified and shit, but he collected himself and said, "Here I am over here, Magical Being, with Eve and this Talking Snake!" Well, the Magical Being was FUCKING PISSED OFF. The Magical Being turned to the Talking Snake and said, "Cursed art thou for doing this evil shit! You shall crawl on your belly and eat pulverized dried shit for all of your days and shit!" The Magical Being turned to Adam and roared, "Why did you eat the shit from the tree that I told you not to fuck with?" Adam thought to himself, "I'm not taking the rap for this shit alone". He turned to the Magical Being and said, "Eve made me do this shit! The Talking Snake lied to her and she, being the dumber than shit blond that she is, lied to me and I believed her and shit since she has never lied to me before." The Magical Being, being totally unreasonable and shit, turned to Eve and said, "Because you have done this shit, you shall experience tremendous pain while giving birth to little shit beings like yourselves." But, even though I am inflicting this horrendous punishment upon you, please never doubt that I love you!" The Magical Being turned to Adam and said, "Because you have also done this shit and ate the shit from the tree that I told you not to fuck with, I am banishing you from my Magical Realm on Earth. You will sweat and work tortuously hard and shit to scrape out an existence and survive. But, please believe that I love you!" The Magical Being also informed them that they had lost eternal life and shit and that they were fucked for about 4000 years until he could fuck Mary with His Holy Spook and produce a primate shit thing who is also the Magical Being embodied. But, right there the Magical Being prophesied about the embodied Magical Being baby primate shit thing that was to come in about 4000 years, or in about four days as the Magical Being interprets the time, and what the Magical Being baby shit thing was going to do to the Talking Snake and for the disgraced primate shit life things. The Magical Being clothed Adam and Eve since they were naked and shit. The Magical Being said, "Holy Shit! They have become like one of us, even though there is only one of Me." Because they can think for themselves now, I must banish them forever from my Magical Realm on Earth. If only they hadn't eaten the shit from the tree that I told them not to fuck with! DAMN that Talking Snake!" So, the Magical Being banished Adam and Eve from his Magical Realm on Earth and placed a really special Magical Talking, Flying, and Flaming Sword in front of the entrance to the Magical Realm to keep them out and shit.

 

This concludes the first installment of the shit that happened after the Magical Being accidentally farted and created the universe. Suffice it to say that a bunch of shit has happened since the shit that has been portrayed in this story took place, which I will relate as time permits and shit.

 

Glory!

 

Glory!

[Xerces]

 

You completely missunderstand the reasons why i am here. I am here to tell you that God loves you, and its my concern to give others the choice to find, what i have found most precious in my life : Jesus Christ.

 

 

No, god doesn't love me, or you, or the thousands of kids dying of starvation in Africa, the victims of the sexual slave trade, child laborers, disabled people, diseased people, victims of genocide, victims of abuse, victims of natural disasters, etc. Look around you, there are many parts of the world where peoples lives are complete, T total shit. A loving god would not subject people to this simply for disobeying once. Would you put your child's hand on a stove for disobeying you? I'd hope not.

 

Not to mention the bible is full of contradictions and fallacious bullshit. Go back and read the book of Job, or read Genesis, and I mean really read Genesis with a healthy amount of skepticism. Or better yet. just read the whole bible with an open skeptical mind. If you still believe after that, you're even more of a deluded fuck nut than I already perceive you to be.

[PatrickG]

 

3. According to Pascal Wager's, yours is a very bad bet. If you are wrong, you face a eternity in hell.

 

You know, is was the "experience with God", that led me to know for sure, that there is no hell.

I'm not sure that your experience is real.

Have you ever been punished by God............in your experience?

[SillyString]

Astreja! (posts #251 &252) +1000!!!

[Noggy]

 

 

You completely missunderstand the reasons why i am here. I am here to tell you that God loves you, and its my concern to give others the choice to find, what i have found most precious in my life : Jesus Christ.

 

 

Hey asshat. We know what you are here for, and we dont give a fuck. See the name of the site? EX christians. We KNOW you think God loves us. We all heard that. We're not fucking morons. Thats why we are here, and you are there. Now stop persecuting us for our beliefs, or we'll come to your church and annoy the fuck out of you next sunday.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

You simply refuse to accept accept those parts of the BBT that don't suit your agenda - that's all.

 

BAA.

 

really ?

 

http://en.wikipedia....of_the_universe

 

The ultimate fate of the universe is a topic in physical cosmology. Many possible fates are predicted by rival scientific theories, including futures of both finite and infinite duration.

 

Once the notion that the universe started with a rapid inflation nicknamed the Big Bang became accepted by the majority of scientists,[1] the ultimate fate of the universe became a valid cosmological question, one depending upon the physical properties of the mass/energy in the universe, its average density, and the rate of expansion.

 

You've ****ed up again B.I.G.

 

Firstly, I have never made the absolute assertion that the universe will expand forever. Secondly, you are confusing my words with those of the Agnosticator.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Posted 06 November 2011 - 03:58 PM

 

agnosticator, on 06 November 2011 - 01:24 PM, said: "The universe is expanding, and could expand infinitely."

 

B.I.G. replied...

based on what scientific evidence do you base this idea ?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Later on, I posted this....

Posted Yesterday, 05:46 AM

 

believeingod, on 06 November 2011 - 03:58 PM, said:

 

 

agnosticator, on 06 November 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

 

 

The universe is expanding, and could expand infinitely.

 

based on what scientific evidence do you base this idea ?

 

Why are you asking for this evidence, B.I.G.?

You've been agreeing with me that it is expanding, so why would you want the Agnosticator to present you with evidence you've already accepted?

 

Stalling for time, maybe?

Simply venting your stubborns, perhaps?

 

Whatever the reason, you certainly aren't presenting a consistent position in this thread.

As Ouroboros has already remarked, you've all over the place here.

 

BAA.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Then you posted this...

 

Posted Yesterday, 06:35 AM

 

Quote

 

Why are you asking for this evidence, B.I.G.?

 

You've been agreeing with me that it is expanding, so why would you want the Agnosticator to present you with evidence you've already accepted?

 

your assertion is that it will expand forever. I would like to see evidence for this assertion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You'll notice that the Agnosticator originally wrote... "The universe is expanding, and could expand infinitely."

 

He didn't assert that it would expand forever. He qualified his statment with a 'could'. That is therefore not an assertion, it is a qualified statement - not the same thing at all.

He also used the word infinitely, not forever - so you've been misquoting him as well as mistaking him for me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I then replied with the following message...

 

It's not an assertion of fact.

It's the logical conclusion of the math and the evidence that supports the BBT, which you claim to support too.

The difference is that you are cherry-picking from that data set and not carrying it fully thru to it's logical conclusions - as you should.

 

If you did the right thing and accepted all of the BBT, then you'd be constrained to accept that the theory says that once started, inflation continues, not just for a fraction of a second, but for billions of years and possibly forever. The fact that we cannot see it happening now doesn't mean that inflation has stopped. Just as I can't say what's happening over the horizon from my boat, so we can't say for sure what's happening elsewhere, in regions of the universe that are beyond our view.

 

You simply refuse to accept accept those parts of the BBT that don't suit your agenda - that's all.

 

BAA.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You'll notice that I don't make the assertion that the universe will expand forever, either.

I've highlighted the relevant words. I said that inflation will continue, possibly forever. Once again, that's a qualified statement, not an assertion.

 

So, you are wrong on two counts.

 

1.

I never made an absolute assertion that the universe will expand forever.

I made the qualified statement that inflation will continue, possibly forever.

 

2.

The Agnosticator never said that the universe will expand forever.

He said that the universe is expanding and could expand infinitely.

 

So you need to apologize to him and me for misquoting us!

 

BAA.

[Brother Jeff]

First of all : christianity is NOT science.

 

No, it's not. Christianity is A STINKING PILE OF UNFILTERED BULLSHIT.

 

 

Third : You have no evidence whatsoever to claim christianity is just superstition.

 

Um... Google is your friend?

 

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/christianity.html

 

I have experienced the God of the bible in so many different ocasions, and so many different ways, no way someone like you to be able to convince me my faith is superstition.

 

I have experienced the glorious blessing of Farting with Jesus and the awe of hearing our farts echo around the solid dome firmament in which the stars are fixed so many times and with so many different melodies there is no way someone like you would be able to convince me that Our Farts were not real! His Farts are Wonderful! Glory!

 

 

Its plain ridiculous to call christianity immoral, specially, faced the two major commands of Jesus, which are to love God, and our next. It seems what moves you is blind, irrational hate.

 

Um... read a history book? Christians have been staining the pages of history with blood for 2000 years. The last time I checked, killing was immoral. Is it somehow magically okay to kill if doing so allegedly pleases the Magical Being?

 

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

 

After you get done with the history book, read the numerous accounts of your god's atrocities in the Old Testament. Loving killing spree after loving killing spree. The foundation of a moral religion cannot be a thoroughly immoral book, which your bible is.

 

When you get done with the Old Testament, read Acts 5 and then tell me when the last time was that you killed someone simply for lying to you. Thanks.

[agnosticator]

<POST SNIPPED>

So, you are wrong on two counts.

 

1.

I never made an absolute assertion that the universe will expand forever.

I made the qualified statement that inflation will continue, possibly forever.

 

2.

The Agnosticator never said that the universe will expand forever.

He said that the universe is expanding and could expand infinitely.

 

So you need to apologize to him and me for misquoting us!

 

BAA.

 

Exactly, BAA! Thanks for sparing me from explaining the obvious. Either he's too dense to read and comprehend what a post says, or he's purposely ignoring what is written in plain English. I made the mistake of redirecting him to reread the posts, so he could have another chance to pull his foot out of his mouth. DOH!

[agnosticator]

Why are you asking for this evidence, B.I.G.?

 

You've been agreeing with me that it is expanding, so why would you want the Agnosticator to present you with evidence you've already accepted?

 

 

your assertion is that it will expand forever. I would like to see evidence for this assertion.

 

Dark energy causes the acceleration of the universe's expansion. If you had read my post #175, you would have seen all the possible scenarios. Read what bornagainatheist linked to in post #228.

 

#http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/48701-please-present-the-best-explanation-for-our-existence/page__view__findpost__p__701089

 

you are right. There are different possible scenarios. So the assertion the universe will expand forever, into eternity, has no hard scientific evidence whatsoever to back up this claim.

 

Did you read any of the links to BAA's or my posts on this topic? The expansion will lead to one of those scenarios, yet no one knows which it will be. Some are more likely than others due to observations. But you are strongly implying that all the other possibilities have "no hard scientific evidence whatsoever to back them up" either! This should lead you to an agnostic position as to the universe's end or future.

[Astreja]

Astreja! (posts #251 &252) +1000!!!

*curtseys* Takk fyrir!

[believeingod]

A STINKING PILE OF UNFILTERED BULLSHIT.

 

 

present a better alternative. have any ?

[believeingod]

The expansion will lead to one of those scenarios, yet no one knows which it will be.

 

taking the second law of thermodynamics into consideration, the most probable is, that our universe will NOT expand forever, but will end in heath death.

[believeingod]

Hey asshat. We know what you are here for, and we dont give a fuck.

 

well, it seem actually you DO give a fuck, otherwise you would not even answer.......

[Astreja]

A STINKING PILE OF UNFILTERED BULLSHIT.

present a better alternative. have any ?

'A stinking pile of unfiltered bullshit' is a completely inappropriate description of Christianity.

 

For one thing, animal manure is far more useful than Christianity. It can be used to fertilize gardens, for instance, and it provides nutrients for flies.

 

There is also considerably more evidence for stinking piles of unfiltered bullshit than there is for the god of the Bible.

 

Finally, stinking piles of unfiltered bullshit are not reticent about making their presence known in the physical world, and do not throw cosmic hissy-fits if we don't believe in them.

 

Bullshit FTW!

[Astreja]

Taking the second law of thermodynamics into consideration, the most probable is, that our universe will NOT expand forever, but will end in heath death.

The second law of thermodynamics applies to an isolated system, in which no energy or matter can cross the boundary.

 

If your alleged god is outside the physical universe, and the physical universe is in fact an isolated system, that would make it impossible for your god to interact with the universe in any way. Congratulations! You are now a deist.

[Ouroboros]

present a better alternative. have any ?

Pixies and pixie dust.

[mymistake]

The expansion will lead to one of those scenarios, yet no one knows which it will be.

 

taking the second law of thermodynamics into consideration, the most probable is, that our universe will NOT expand forever, but will end in heath death.

 

Do you even understand what these terms mean? It seems like you read that response from another web site and your are flinging it around hoping something will stick.

[bornagainathiest]

The expansion will lead to one of those scenarios, yet no one knows which it will be.

 

taking the second law of thermodynamics into consideration, the most probable is, that our universe will NOT expand forever, but will end in heath death.

 

Heath death?

 

Would that be the sad demise of this person?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_Ledger

 

BAA.

 

 

 

p.s.

Then if so, according to B.I.G., the universe ended on Jan 22, 2008!

[bornagainathiest]

Taking the second law of thermodynamics into consideration, the most probable is, that our universe will NOT expand forever, but will end in heath death.

The second law of thermodynamics applies to an isolated system, in which no energy or matter can cross the boundary.

 

If your alleged god is outside the physical universe, and the physical universe is in fact an isolated system, that would make it impossible for your god to interact with the universe in any way. Congratulations! You are now a deist.

 

 

On target, Astreja!

 

I've already asked the B.I.G. man to tell us where this impenetrable barrier is... ...and he hasn't (can't!).

 

BAA.

[bornagainathiest]

The expansion will lead to one of those scenarios, yet no one knows which it will be.

 

taking the second law of thermodynamics into consideration, the most probable is, that our universe will NOT expand forever, but will end in heath death.

 

So, even if we take this scenario as being most probable, that still doesn't discount the following possibilities.

 

1.

That the universe has been expanding beyond the limits of how far we can (our observable universe) for the past 13.7 billion years.

 

2.

That the universe is currently, still expanding, far, far beyond said limits.

 

3.

That the universe will continue expanding, as per the below, emboldened estimate, enlarging itself by many, many orders of magnitude in the 10¹⁰⁰ years before entropic equilibrium.

Time frame for heat death

Main article: Future of an expanding universe

From the Big Bang through the present day and well into the future, matter and dark matter in the universe are thought to be concentrated in stars, galaxies, and galaxy clusters. Therefore, the universe is not in thermodynamic equilibrium and objects can do physical work.^{[10], §VID.} The decay time for a supermassive black hole of roughly 1 galaxy-mass (10¹¹solar masses) due to Hawking radiation is in the order of 10¹⁰⁰ years,^[11] so entropy can be produced until at least that time. After that time, the universe enters the so-called dark era, and is expected to consist chiefly of a dilute gas of photons and leptons.^{[10], §VIA.} With only very diffuse matter remaining, activity in the universe will have tailed off dramatically, with extremely low energy levels and extremely long time scales. Speculatively, it is possible that the universe may enter a second inflationary epoch, or, assuming that the current vacuum state is a false vacuum, the vacuum may decay into a lower-energy state.^{[10], §VE.} It is also possible that entropy production will cease and the universe will achieve heat death.^{[10], §VID.}

 

^{It is agreed, the universe could still be regarded as finite, but that is not the salient point here.}

^{The point is that the universe as a whole ceased to be fully visible from the Earth's viewpoint, long, long ago. What we see is just a very small portion of all that there is. So, B.I.G.'s use of the Heat(h) Death scenario doesn't help his position, but in fact weakens it.}

 

^{By citing this option he is tacitly accepting that the universe is already far, far larger than the horizon of our observed universe.}

^{If he accepts this, then he cannot, under any circumstances assert that the universe is finite. Definite knowledge is required to make that claim.}

^{But Such information and knowledge is beyond the reach of any human being, because the universe has already expanded well beyond the small region that we can see.}

^{Unless he can somehow see "beyond" our observable universe (and he can't) B.I.G. cannot see if the universe is finite or not.}

^{Game over!}

 

^BAA.

[Ouroboros]

The expansion will lead to one of those scenarios, yet no one knows which it will be.

 

taking the second law of thermodynamics into consideration, the most probable is, that our universe will NOT expand forever, but will end in heath death.

I thought heat death of the universe was the result of an infinitely expanding universe. You're saying they're not related? Heat death without infinite expansion?

[skepticalme]

Why are you asking for this evidence, B.I.G.?

 

You've been agreeing with me that it is expanding, so why would you want the Agnosticator to present you with evidence you've already accepted?

 

 

your assertion is that it will expand forever. I would like to see evidence for this assertion.

 

The universe is not only expanding, but it is also accelerating. The energy required for this acceleration, which we call 'dark energy' makes up over 60% of our universe. Our evidence that it will expand forever is basic math. Even if the remaining 40% was working to pull it back together it would never succeed, because 60% > 40%. The 2011 Nobel prize in physics was awarded for discoverying this.

[skepticalme]

The expansion will lead to one of those scenarios, yet no one knows which it will be.

 

taking the second law of thermodynamics into consideration, the most probable is, that our universe will NOT expand forever, but will end in heath death.

 

You clearly don't understand these concepts. A heat death is the entropy that occurs when a system of finite energy expands forever.