sdelsolray Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 The philosophical and religious explanations must be shown to be testable and true in reality (the known universe), or they are fruitless and useless. If not, they explain nothing but fantasy. they have been so, as shown in my previous post today. But such testimonies are ignored.... they don't fit the preconceived perception God shall not exist...... You have moments of clarity and honesty in other posts, certainly not in this one. Choosing to be silent when appropriate is a good skill to learn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skepticalme Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Faith is not a virtue, faith is how ignorance stays ignorant. No, faith can be based on reason. IN the end, all of us rely our life on things we cannot proof, are based on faith. Your world view is also based on faith. Nobody knows the ultimate truth. REALLY? Faith can be based on reason? Tell me, when can faith be informed and still be faith? Faith is the belief in something when faced with conflicting evidence or no evidence at all. If it's based on knowledge or evidence then it's not faith. I see lots of xtians try to do this. They try to reconcile a religion based on faith with the power of reason. But this falls on its face because the power of reason comes from the fact that it is not based on faith, it's based on knowledge and logic, the polar opposites of faith. If we all based our lives on faith, people would be walking across the street with their eyes closed, having FAITH that they won't be hit by a bus. People don't do that, at least the ones still living don't, they look both ways before crossing. I agree with the "Nobody knows the ultimate truth" statement though. If you really believed this, you wouldn't KNOW there was a god. I don't KNOW if there is a god. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickG Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Faith is not a virtue, faith is how ignorance stays ignorant. No, faith can be based on reason. IN the end, all of us rely our life on things we cannot proof, are based on faith. Your world view is also based on faith. Nobody knows the ultimate truth. REALLY? Faith can be based on reason? Tell me, when can faith be informed and still be faith? Faith is the belief in something when faced with conflicting evidence or no evidence at all. If it's based on knowledge or evidence then it's not faith. I see lots of xtians try to do this. They try to reconcile a religion based on faith with the power of reason. But this falls on its face because the power of reason comes from the fact that it is not based on faith, it's based on knowledge and logic, the polar opposites of faith. If we all based our lives on faith, people would be walking across the street with their eyes closed, having FAITH that they won't be hit by a bus. People don't do that, at least the ones still living don't, they look both ways before crossing. I agree with the "Nobody knows the ultimate truth" statement though. If you really believed this, you wouldn't KNOW there was a god. I don't KNOW if there is a god. My reasonable faith is based on my experience. That is another thread though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 You have reminded me that faith is deaf, dumb, and blind. http://www.cosmicfin...incompleteness/ (You can’t prove that the sun will come up tomorrow morning either.) You literally have to take it on faith. I don't have to take it on faith. I don't have to consider it at all. But proving future events is impossible and an absurdity to reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 The philosophical and religious explanations must be shown to be testable and true in reality (the known universe), or they are fruitless and useless. If not, they explain nothing but fantasy. they have been so, as shown in my previous post today. But such testimonies are ignored.... Are you on something? I haven't read anything about evidence of the biblegod's existence from your posts. Testimonies don't count. they don't fit the preconceived perception God shall not exist...... Baseless assertion, to use your own words. They don't fit the evidence. If we Ex-Christians have a "preconceived perception God shall not exist", why was this site created? Forget answering the question. You are totally clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skepticalme Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Faith is not a virtue, faith is how ignorance stays ignorant. No, faith can be based on reason. IN the end, all of us rely our life on things we cannot proof, are based on faith. Your world view is also based on faith. Nobody knows the ultimate truth. REALLY? Faith can be based on reason? Tell me, when can faith be informed and still be faith? Faith is the belief in something when faced with conflicting evidence or no evidence at all. If it's based on knowledge or evidence then it's not faith. I see lots of xtians try to do this. They try to reconcile a religion based on faith with the power of reason. But this falls on its face because the power of reason comes from the fact that it is not based on faith, it's based on knowledge and logic, the polar opposites of faith. If we all based our lives on faith, people would be walking across the street with their eyes closed, having FAITH that they won't be hit by a bus. People don't do that, at least the ones still living don't, they look both ways before crossing. I agree with the "Nobody knows the ultimate truth" statement though. If you really believed this, you wouldn't KNOW there was a god. I don't KNOW if there is a god. My reasonable faith is based on my experience. That is another thread though. The definition of faith: faith (feɪθ) —n 1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence "Reasonable faith" sounds like an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skepticalme Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I would really like to see a believer try to explain questions equivelant to the one they ask us. They claim that if we can't account for everything; gravity, time space, matter, energy, life, evolution, logic, the laws of physics, etc., our world view is invalid and G-O-D wins by default. Why are seculars always on the defensive in this arena? That sword can cut both ways. Believers, please present your best explaination for god's metaphysical properties. What is the source of his omnipotence. How about his omnipresence or his omniscience? What manner of magic did he use to create the universe? How does that magic work? If he interacts with the physical world then that interaction should be quantifiable. Are there any sort equations he uses to part seas or bring three days of darkness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Believers, please present your best explaination for god's metaphysical properties. What is the source of his omnipotence. How about his omnipresence or his omniscience? What manner of magic did he use to create the universe? How does that magic work? If he interacts with the physical world then that interaction should be quantifiable. Are there any sort equations he uses to part seas or bring three days of darkness? Also, please identify the biblegod's absolute morals, since morality is claimed to be based upon His character. I never have gotten an answer to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Our budding creationist has disappeared. Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 no kidding... almost all my arguments are based on scientific knowledge. I do not need the bible to make my point. But thats not what this topic is about. Its about YOUR world view, and about how consistent it is. Unfortunately, the ice is very thin.....just a littlebit weight, and it brakes...... You can debate whether current scientific knowledge is true or not all day, but you're never going to be able to prove Christianity to be true. Go do something more worthwhile, and dangerous, like doing missionary work in a fanatical Muslim country, maybe you can use your "knowledge" to edumacate them as to the only "true" religion. dick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatrickG Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Our budding creationist has disappeared. Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. Oppressors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believeingod Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious...... Which is that your delusions and imaginations are real and reality is not??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious...... I'm not an atheist. Show me something obvious so that I can admit it. Be sure this "obvious" thing follows from objective evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 It's back! But seeing as this thread's not going to be locked, I'm outa here! BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skepticalme Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious...... If you think the answer is obvious, then you aren't putting a lot of thought into the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious...... The obvious has already been demonstrated, so why should we have to admit the obvious facts that: 1.Your literal beliefs about the Bible contradict what is now understood about reality. For example, witches don't exist. Too bad the christians in Salem didn't know. Why didn't the biblegod tell them? Modern believers don't believe in witches, so they don't execute innocent women. 2.You don't know what religious faith is, and you don't know the difference between truth and Truth. Or won't admit that you do know. 3.You're dense. Not stupid, just thickheaded. Or maybe I'm wrong. You could just be dishonest. 4.You deny the existence of Ex-Christians, and you are here proselytizing as if we know nothing about the Bible. That is definitive proof you're dense. So, I withdraw the possibility I might be wrong in statement #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 "the obvious" is that he got his ass kicked, and everyone can see it BUT him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious... (Springy G un-lurks and rejoins the fray, because BIG *so* needs his presumptuous, slanderous and mendacious butt kicked...) BIG, your "obvious" is My "ridiculous, primitive mythology." Quite frankly, I think the god you purport to worship is far too stupid to have created something as elegant as molecular valence (to name but one small portion of what a god would actually have to do in order to build a universe). I think there is a probability of 99.999...% that the physical underpinnings of chemistry occurred all by themselves, simply by virtue of being "the way the pieces fit together." Your imaginary friend probably would've added a kludge that makes electrons rest on the Sabbath, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believeingod Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious...... I'm not an atheist. Show me something obvious so that I can admit it. Be sure this "obvious" thing follows from objective evidence. from Dr.Werner Gitt, translated from german: Did you know that the human genome (genetic material) carries 3 billion genetic letters in it? If a typewriter would write this code in a single line, so this chain would be as long as from the North Pole to the Equator. If a good secretary would write with 300 strokes per minute 220 working days per year without interruption at a eight-hour day , so it would not be enough, her entire working life to set these letters to tap. She would indeed be busy 95 years! the used storage medium in the form of double-helical DNA molecule requires only the extremely small volume of three billionths of cubic millimeters (3 × 10-9 mm3). Here such a huge storage density has been realized as nothing else known to human kind. Extrapolating the amount of information in human genome is contained in pocket books (each with 160 Pages) in order, then this corresponds toalmost 12 000 Copies. Did you know that a scientific programmer in the Average developes about 40 sign design program codes per day? Assuming only one of the Amount of characters in the human genome from, then for This programming task needs an army of over 8000 programmers to work their entire career only to develope this project Its obvious that nothing else than a intelligent creator is able to create DNA . Scientific knowledge evidences intelligent design........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believeingod Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious...... Which is that your delusions and imaginations are real and reality is not??? No. Its that nothing, or a eternal universe, in what form whatever, is not a good explanation for our existence. God is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believeingod Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 Facts and rational thinking usually chase them away. No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious...... If you think the answer is obvious, then you aren't putting a lot of thought into the issue. i guess, you are ? please present your thoughts then..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believeingod Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 You deny the existence of Ex-Christians, Yes, i do. Nobody, that has truly born again and sealed with the holy spirit, will renounce his faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believeingod Posted November 20, 2011 Author Share Posted November 20, 2011 No, its rather the unwillingness of atheists to admit the obvious... (Springy G un-lurks and rejoins the fray, because BIG *so* needs his presumptuous, slanderous and mendacious butt kicked...) BIG, your "obvious" is My "ridiculous, primitive mythology." Quite frankly, I think the god you purport to worship is far too stupid to have created something as elegant as molecular valence (to name but one small portion of what a god would actually have to do in order to build a universe). I think there is a probability of 99.999...% that the physical underpinnings of chemistry occurred all by themselves, simply by virtue of being "the way the pieces fit together." Your imaginary friend probably would've added a kludge that makes electrons rest on the Sabbath, or something. oh sure. the same way, as this writing can fit together without a mind, so can dna. isnt it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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