Racist beliefs

[Valgeir]

The First Amendment is not universal. It's been abridged and suspended before, and this is a good example of when that's acceptable. This is comparable to yelling "Fire!" in a theater- designed to incite panic. Except this is more that that. This is also meant to incite feelings of hatred and violence against people.

 

Ban the shit, I say.

[Skankboy]

"Communist Zionist Jews"

 

I'm sorry, but am I the only one that has a problem with this statement? This alone should clue anybody in that these guys are hopelessly screwed in their mental acuaties...

[Onyx]

Yeah, it's a sad day when you see racists on the web for your money.... :angry:

[fallenleaf]

I just sent Netscape a complaint e-mail telling them that one of their e-mail users had a hate site, so it was reasonable to assume that they were using a Netscape affiliate as a host.  You should be able to send them one, it is at netscape.net through the help pages.

 

Netscape is not going to do anything. Netscape does not host the site.

 

They are hosted by DeZines Web Hosting Corporation

hostmaster@DEZINES.COM

 

You might also want to mention the following (from http://www.simplewebsite.com/legal.htm) their legal statement:

Acceptable Content

 

Pages containing copyrighted material, hate material, pornography, nude images, or other 'adult' material may not be stored on DeZines's web servers. This also includes links to such material. Use of text or images created by others without their permission is copyright infringement and is prohibited.

 

If you're going to complain (not a bad idea really) at least complain to the right people.

[- AUB -]

Well, it looks like Mel Gibson's father and my brother's pet gerbil have some intellectual peers. I wish this country was like Iceland. Hate speech done in public there will give you jail time and a fine payable to the court.

 

Here too, if a pamphlit is a clear an present danger to society then it is irresposible not to remove it, like the bible.

[nightflight]

The First Amendment is not universal. It's been abridged and suspended before, and this is a good example of when that's acceptable. This is comparable to yelling "Fire!" in a theater- designed to incite panic. Except this is more that that. This is also meant to incite feelings of hatred and violence against people.

 

Ban the shit, I say.

 

No, its not comparable to shouting fire in a theatre. If you shout fire in a theatre, there is an immediate danger, while a web page, no matter how wrong, isn't. You have plenty of time to read alternative views, write a nasty email, start your own counter-web page, etc.

[nightflight]

People, if you are going to try to get that site removed, be consistent. Go to as many hate pages as you can and do the same.

 

Go to:

The Nation of Islam's site.

The Communist Party U.S.A. site.

Democratic Underground dot com.

La Raza.

etc.

 

Don't just try to get the white racist sites banned. Be consistent.

[Biggles7268]

wether you like it or not, or agree with it or whatever, they have the right to say it. it's up to the reader to use that spongie thing inbetween their ears to seperate and ignore the garbage. censorship, even against garbage like that is wrong.

[Amethyst]

Too bad the internet doesnt have any laws against creating sites based on pure bullshit.

 

Actually, most web site hosting firms do ban hate speech. Which is why I suggest sending Netscape.net a complaint e-mail, since that was the contact addy for the site & its logical to guess that they are using an affiliate to host it, even though they have a domain name. I realize they'll just go find another host, but hey, getting it shut down temporarily will at least send the message that most people don't care for that kind of crap.

[Valgeir]

Nightflight-

 

Can you tell me what's wrong with democraticunderground.com? I didn't really look through it, just a skim over the main page, but it looks fine. Hell, it looks like a good site. Shows tremendous opposition to conservativism, but that's not bad- at least it's not saying "The Conservatives are evil spawn of Satan, DESTROY THEM!" In fact, there are a lot of interesting things on that site. And the Communist party's site- same deal. They call themselves a "fighting organization" and a "militant organization" but it doesn't look like they actually condone violence, just a strong push for a Communist government.

 

Do you just hate the left wing or something?

[Amethyst]

The only thing I seee on DemocraticUnderground is rants against Bush and Republicans in general. That is not the same thing as posting hate speech against Jewish people or African Americans, or whoever. Democratic Undergound is not saying KILL ALL THE REPUBLICANS or something stupid like that. If it was, then it would be hate speech.

 

There is really no comparison from what I can see just skimming the front page. If ranting against Bush to let off steam really was the same thing as hate speech, the vast majority of blogs and live journals and message boards would have to be shut down, including my own. I don't like Bush and am willing to admit it. If anyone considers that hate speech, they need to go look up the definition in a dictionary. Thank goodness it's not.

[nightflight]

The only thing I seee on DemocraticUnderground is rants against Bush and Republicans in general.

 

Don't forget the infamous threads where DU members cheered the deaths of American soldiers in Iraq.

 

Democratic Undergound is not saying KILL ALL THE REPUBLICANS or something stupid like that. If it was, then it would be hate speech.

 

Many threads there have walked that line. The Left is not immune from hate, despite their assertions to the contrary.

[nightflight]

Can you tell me what's wrong with democraticunderground.com? I didn't really look through it, just a skim over the main page, but it looks fine. Hell, it looks like a good site. Shows tremendous opposition to conservativism, but that's not bad- at least it's not saying "The Conservatives are evil spawn of Satan, DESTROY THEM!" In fact, there are a lot of interesting things on that site. And the Communist party's site- same deal. They call themselves a "fighting organization" and a "militant organization" but it doesn't look like they actually condone violence, just a strong push for a Communist government.

 

Do you just hate the left wing or something?

 

My point is that there have been hateful threads on that site. I'm worried about the slippery slope here. Its better to allow outright hate speech in order to protect the not-so-hate and the occasional hate.

 

The Communist Party U.S.A. supports revolutionary movements around the world, and accuses business and middle and upper middle class as being oppressors. Now you might not think that's bad, but what if it inspires some of the underclass to violence? While the racists sites hate people because of race, the far Left sites hate them because of class. I don't think one is worse than the other.

 

And yes, I do hate the left wing. I dislike the right intensely, especially the xtian right, but I do hate the left, though there are several issues that I agree with them on.

 

Btw, there is such a thing as the Christian Left. They just don't get as much media coverage. Not as sexy.

[Amethyst]

I am not saying the left is immune to hate. Certainly, environmental extremists are not -- the idiots who vandalize people's SUVs and start fires in science labs to "rescue" the animals, when most of the animals probably die from carbon monoxide in the process anyway. That, to me, is just as stupid as what right-wing religious extremists do. But it's not racism, it's environmentalism taken to an extreme.

 

They aren't buring SUVs because the people who drive them are Jewish, it's because SUVs are gas guzzlers. That doesn't make it right, but it isn't "hate speech" against one particular race or religion. Hate speech in most states, for the purpose of law, is defined as speech against a group of people for religion, race, gender, sexual preference, etc, and that is what I'm referring to. Not liberal extremism, which is what you are referring to.

 

I am just saying that it looks to me like most of the posts were made to let off steam, like a blog. When posts are written like that, you cannot take them seriously because people are writing them to vent and let go of stress. It isn't the same thing.

 

The racists were serious about their threats. These people are just venting. That is the difference that I see.

 

Don't forget the infamous threads where DU members cheered the deaths of American soldiers in Iraq. 

Many threads there have walked that line.  The Left is not immune from hate, despite their assertions to the contrary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Try telling that to an African American. Or a Jew. Good luck.

 

Its better to allow outright hate speech in order to protect the not-so-hate and the occasional hate.

[Karl-777]

Well, the link cited in post #1 of this thread was certainly disgusting. Maybe the people that actually experienced the horrors of the Nazi fascists were just imagining all that shit. Speaking of religio-fascists:

 

Christianity has never been tolerant of Jews or Pagans:

(the following cited from: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm )

Heresy

.......St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: "a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas". "The right Christian faith consists in giving one's voluntary assent to Christ in all that truly belongs to His teaching. There are,therefore,two ways of deviating from Christianity: the one by refusing to believe in Christ Himself, which is the way of infidelity, common to Pagans and Jews; the other by restricting belief to certain points of Christ's doctrine selected and fashioned at pleasure, which is the way of heretics. The subject-matter of both faith and heresy is, therefore, the deposit of the faith, that is, the sum total of truths revealed in Scripture and Tradition as proposed to our belief by the Church......

 

........ Heresy is a sin because of its nature it is destructive of the virtue of Christian faith. Its malice is to be measured therefore by the excellence of the good gift of which it deprives the soul. Now faith is the most precious possession of man, the root of his supernatural life, the pledge of his eternal salvation. Privation of faith is therefore the greatest evil, and deliberate rejection of faith is the greatest sin. St. Thomas (II-II, Q. x, a. 3) arrives at the same conclusion thus: "All sin is an aversion from God. A sin, therefore, is the greater the more it separates man from God. But infidelity does this more than any other sin, for the infidel (unbeliever) is without the true knowledge of God: his false knowledge does not bring him help, for what he opines is not God: manifestly, then, the sin of unbelief ( infidelitas ) is the greatest sin in the whole range of perversity." And he adds: "Although the Gentiles err in more things than the Jews, and although the Jews are farther removed from true faith than heretics, yet the unbelief of the Jews is a more grievous sin than that of the Gentiles, because they corrupt the Gospel itself after having adopted and professed the same......

 

.......Medieval people found no fault with the system, in fact heretics had been burned by the populace centuries before the Inquisition became a regular institution. And whenever heretics gained the upper hand, they were never slow in applying the same laws: so the Huguenots in France, the Hussites in Bohemia, the Calvinists in Geneva, the Elizabethan statesmen and the Puritans in England. Toleration came in only when faith went out; lenient measures were resorted to only where the power to apply more severe measures was wanting.......

 

It will be interesting to see what Herr von Papen Benedict XVI comes up with. The reader is also reminded that the above is from the CURRENT version of the Catholic Encyclopedia.

 

The following cited from: http://www.earthward.org/india.shtml

Brown-shirt Xtian thugs repeatedly harass and mug a Pagan adolescent female in horrific incidents in 2003:

Horace Maynard Middle School in Union, Tennessee punished India Tracy, a 14-year-old straight-A student, for not participating in religious events. In addition, the school did not do enough to discourage religiously motivated bullying, which lead to physical assaults on India. Her family is Pagan.

 

* India was sent to the Principal's office for not attending a Christian tent revival during school hours. (Her older sister Tyla was once punished at Union County High School for the same reason. She was given extra classwork in order to "remind" her to bring her permission slip.)

 

* India was sent to the Principal's office when she refused to portray Mary in a Christmas play.

 

* India was forced to attend regular Bible study classes during the school day, and urged to lead the school and her class in prayer.

 

* A teacher told India to "keep quiet because you'll get in trouble" after she wrote a paper about religious freedom.

 

* A bus driver regularly asked India in front of other students if she had gone to church yet and if she'd like to come to church.

 

* Derogatory names were written on her locker in permanent ink, but the school refused to remove the graffiti or move her locker.

 

* She was beaten and ridiculed by other students for not being a Christian ever since 1999, when she refused to go to a religious retreat , and the school system has failed to prevent it. The bullying is so severe that her mother has had to pull her out of school and homeschool her after India started talking about suicide.

 

* India was repeatedly called "Satan worshipper", "witch" and other names. She was accused of "eating babies" and of being a lesbian because she wasn't a Christian.

 

* She was repeatedly attacked as she knelt in front of her bottom-row locker. Her head was bashed at least 10 times, cutting her lip, forehead and nose.

 

* India was chased down the hallway by three boys who grabbed her by the back of the neck and told her she should change her religion or they'd "change it for her."......

 

All in a days "works" (by which ye shall know them) for the Xtian mob.

 

And of course, all of us were responsible for the 9/11 tragedy:

.....the Pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point a finger in their face and say ‘you helped this happen'....

The new groups to be singled out for persecution by the SS of Xtianity. Yes, the terrorists were the "hand" of biblegod.

 

More from the fundie abyss, cited from the chilling collection of hate-filled fundie quotes at:

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/quotes.htm

 

The god of Judaism is the devil. The Jew will not be recognized by God as one of His chosen people until he abandons his demonic religion and returns to the faith of his fathers--the faith which embraces Jesus Christ and His Gospel.

 

(regarding doctors who perform abortions)

"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we'll execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed."

 

So let us be blunt about it: We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will be get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.

 

~from "The Intellectual Schizophrenia of the New Christian Right" in Christianity and Civilization: The Failure of the American Baptist Culture, No. 1 (Spring, 1982), p. 25

 

As we know, to the fundie, dogma is all-important. Never mind the fact that there is little or no empirical foundation for the bible in history, archaeology or by demonstration, or that fundie Xtian dogma is indefensible, it's "the only true way" anyway. The fundie has no Understanding of Esoteric Truth & Gnosis or the inner Light of Spirituality, only the lust for power, money, control and domination.

 

There is no difference in barbarism whatsover between the mid-20th century Nazi sentiments toward the Jews, hate web-sites, and the sentiments of Xtian extremists of today, toward non-believers. Their one goal of Xtianity is the re-unification of the church with the state on a global scale, and a return to the evil, hideous abominations, ignorance, serfdom and control-mongering of the most awful period in human history, the church-dominated dark ages. This is taking place via election fraud, corruption and murder. When the church and its denominations are re-unified under the banner of the Roman Church and allied with the state, as in Roman times, they will once again have re-acquired the power to "apply more severe measures" that "was wanting".

 

It's OK to come in here and have a good time in the chat room, enjoy the shoutbox, contribute in the forums, etc. But every person here who is in the U.S. needs to be active and involved in the preservation of the Constitution and of Liberty. Because of you're not......before too long, the last thing you may hear is the crackling of the flames or the whisper of the blade of the guillotine......

 

K

[TruthWarrior]

Here too, if a pamphlit is a clear an present danger to society then it is irresposible not to remove it, like the bible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Since when is the bible clear?

[nightflight]

I am not saying the left is immune to hate. Certainly, environmental extremists are not -- the idiots who vandalize people's SUVs and start fires in science labs to "rescue" the animals, when most of the animals probably die from carbon monoxide in the process anyway. That, to me, is just as stupid as what right-wing religious extremists do. But it's not racism, it's environmentalism taken to an extreme.

 

 

So what if its not racism? Why is racist violence single out as worse? I have never understood that.

 

 

 

I am just saying that it looks to me like most of the posts were made to let off steam, like a blog. When posts are written like that, you cannot take them seriously because people are writing them to vent and let go of stress. It isn't the same thing.

 

I guess my project this weekend is to dig up websites of a leftist slant.

 

Try telling that to an African American. Or a Jew. Good luck.

 

There are MANY of both groups who agree with me. The First Amendment is not something to fuck around with.

 

P.C. run amok.

[Amethyst]

Nobody is fucking around with the First Ammendment. If a website hosting firm's Terms of Service, which you legally have to agree to when you sign up for a website, ban hate speech, it is the right of an individual to complain about a website that is offensive. I am exercising that right. You have that right too. But hate speech is very different from ranting on a blog, which is what your examples are.

 

The definition of hate speech I am using is this:

 

Hate speech is a controversial term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against someone based on their race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. The term covers written as well as oral communication.

 

(From Wikipedia)

 

You are just trying to generalize everything you strongly disagree with as hate speech, so we are not on the same page.

 

Please don't take this personally. You seem to be, for some reason. I am against racists, not freedom of speech. I write short stories and poetry in my spare time. I have had them published under my real name. Why the hell would I be against freedom of speech?

 

I don't think anyone should be thrown in jail for hate speech alone, but I do think that if a website goes against the contract that was signed, and if the speech is offensive and disgusting, which goes WAY beyond just being a rant and non-PC, we have the right to complain about it.

 

Did you even go to the web site in the first post in this thread, or are you taking the opposite side just because you like to debate? See the kind of hate that is being talked about first before you cry "liberal extremists." No offense meant, but you are starting to sound like a fundamentalist, judging people before you even get to know them.

 

I am a very nice person in real life. But prejudice is one of my pet peeves. I really don't have that many pet peeves, but irrational hate against someone for something that they have no control over is one of them. I will fight against it when I see it. When you have had prejudice directed at you for something you have no control over (like being female), see how you feel.

 

Why don't you look up hate speech laws and reasons for enacting them, while you are looking up "leftist" websites? Also, look up news articles about violence against minority groups in America, so you can see what it leads to.

[Cerise]

So what if its not racism?  Why is racist violence single out as worse?  I have never understood that.

 

Uh, maybe because it's against people? What's worse, violence against cats or violence against kids? (this is so not a trick question)

 

I guess my project this weekend is to dig up websites of a leftist slant.

 

Whatever. I really could not care less about your political agendas.

 

There are MANY of both groups who agree with me.  The First Amendment is not something to fuck around with.

 

First of all, this is about the breakage of TOS agreement, not the First Amendment, so don't get your johnnies in a knot. Also, remember way back when, something called "The Patriot Act" was introduced? You have no First Amdenment Rights, darling. Unless you happen to be rich and white. Then, as always, do whatever the fuck you want.

 

P.C. run amok.

 

If I have to deal with Frankie-boy reborn, I'm gonna scream.

[Guest yoshi]

This year Holocaust memorial day will be this coming Saturday, May 7.

[Onyx]

Honour the dead, I say and boo Hitler to death!

[Thurisaz]

Honour the dead, I say and boo Hitler to death!

 

Ummm... that would mean that he's still alive...

 

[Onyx]

That's a statement I would make if he's alive in my time...

[Amethyst]

I would make more than a statement. But I don't think there's enough disk space on my Live Journal account for the rant I would write.

 

That's a statement I would make if he's alive in my time...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[nightflight]

I edited this. I think I'm right, but I don't like getting all riled up and angry at fellow ex-xtians.