The Ex-c Epic Buddhism Thread

[Noggy]

Zen, to me, always seemed to be about experience. About a responsive awareness to the contents of that experience before the intervention of complex intellecutal activity. But this mushin seems to be the opposite of that. Even though they seem to be based on the same concepts.

[Noggy]

Perhaps I could say it better by referencing the words of the Buddha when he said something like: All is impermanence, Observe everything carefully and constantly.

 

It seems to me that mushin is the opposite of this, while this is what satori is. I don't know, I think my understanding of what exactly mushin is, is the problem. Which is why I'm asking

[Rev R]

Zen, to me, always seemed to be about experience. About a responsive awareness to the contents of that experience before the intervention of complex intellecutal activity. But this mushin seems to be the opposite of that. Even though they seem to be based on the same concepts.

 

You are close. Mushin is what enables that activity to take place.

 

Another clue: "There are no enlightened people, only enlightened activity." ~Shunryu Suzuki

[Noggy]

Zen, to me, always seemed to be about experience. About a responsive awareness to the contents of that experience before the intervention of complex intellecutal activity. But this mushin seems to be the opposite of that. Even though they seem to be based on the same concepts.

 

You are close. Mushin is what enables that activity to take place.

 

Another clue: "There are no enlightened people, only enlightened activity." ~Shunryu Suzuki

 

Why must your mind be completely still before you are able to be aware of everything? I don't see how that follows.

[Antlerman]

Why must your mind be completely still before you are able to be aware of everything? I don't see how that follows.

Because you are too busy wrapped up in illusion as reality. You identify reality with all your linguistic constructions; symbolic frameworks inside your mind that you seat the center of your self and reality outside you within. When you still those thoughts, the non-verbal within you is able to be heard and seen consciously. From there then, awareness begins to open.

[Legion]

A-man's post reminded me of this awesome TED talk by Jill Taylor, a neuroscientist who had a stroke near the language specializing area of the brain.

 

I think it's relevant here. Please watch it. She's an inspiration. It's 18 minutes long.

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight.html

[Antlerman]

Noggy, I have a question for you. Have you practiced meditation yet to any degree where you enter into altered states of consciousness? The reason I ask is because the questions you ask, though important for an academic way to try to talk about these things, really become quite clear once you enter into those spaces. There frankly is no other way possible to understand it without actually going in there first hand.

 

Though I embrace and love intellectual discussion surrounding it, all of that, even at its most integrate and articulate, utterly pales in the light of what is revealed in that space. If you want answers to these questions in order to grasp it with the mind, there is no other way to do that but to actually immerse your mind in it through first-hand experience. Then, all these explanations become ways to attempt to talk about it.

[Noggy]

Noggy, I have a question for you. Have you practiced meditation yet to any degree where you enter into altered states of consciousness? The reason I ask is because the questions you ask, though important for an academic way to try to talk about these things, really become quite clear once you enter into those spaces. There frankly is no other way possible to understand it without actually going in there first hand.

 

Though I embrace and love intellectual discussion surrounding it, all of that, even at its most integrate and articulate, utterly pales in the light of what is revealed in that space. If you want answers to these questions in order to grasp it with the mind, there is no other way to do that but to actually immerse your mind in it through first-hand experience. Then, all these explanations become ways to attempt to talk about it.

 

I think meditation in its most common definition is just about impossible for me. Or at least difficult enough that I'll never be able to successfully get to satori through that path. I'm interested in other paths. There are lots of different ways to get to this experience that isn't focused on meditation, and those I can do.

 

I might also add, that I am not really interested in losing all attachments. I think thats a bit extreme, to say the least.

 

I shall add a third time, that no, while I have never (successfully) done any formal type of shikentaza, that I can say that I have lost my self through other means, and I have had experiences similar to the ones we are describing here. Quantification of these interests me almost as much as the experiences themselves, though.

[VacuumFlux]

I might also add, that I am not really interested in losing all attachments. I think thats a bit extreme, to say the least.

 

I'm guessing that the answer to this question depends on which particular sub-category of Buddhism you're talking about, but...

 

What does losing all attachments mean? Sometimes I get the impression that it's a depressing way of disconnecting from life, a sort of "if I don't care, then it can't hurt me". But I've also read a book that described it more as focusing on the good (and bad) experiences in the moment they happen and not... clinging to the memories and shadows that happen afterwards. The first seems associated with the idea that you shouldn't strive for much in this life because that's a symptom of attachment; the second seems to encourage you to see out new, positive experiences instead of trying to recreate past positive experiences that you'll never get back anyway. Is having ambitions and goal a form of attachment that should be avoided, or is it more that... an addiction to/obsession with the future or the past prevents you from getting the most out of your life right now?

[Noggy]

I might also add, that I am not really interested in losing all attachments. I think thats a bit extreme, to say the least.

 

I'm guessing that the answer to this question depends on which particular sub-category of Buddhism you're talking about, but...

 

What does losing all attachments mean? Sometimes I get the impression that it's a depressing way of disconnecting from life, a sort of "if I don't care, then it can't hurt me". But I've also read a book that described it more as focusing on the good (and bad) experiences in the moment they happen and not... clinging to the memories and shadows that happen afterwards. The first seems associated with the idea that you shouldn't strive for much in this life because that's a symptom of attachment; the second seems to encourage you to see out new, positive experiences instead of trying to recreate past positive experiences that you'll never get back anyway. Is having ambitions and goal a form of attachment that should be avoided, or is it more that... an addiction to/obsession with the future or the past prevents you from getting the most out of your life right now?

 

In Buddhism the idea of losing attachments is just to experience, but not be attached. To love, but not be attached, to show compassion, but not be attached, etc...

 

"living in the moment" would be a vast oversimplification, but a useful one.

[Antlerman]

I think meditation in its most common definition is just about impossible for me. Or at least difficult enough that I'll never be able to successfully get to satori through that path. I'm interested in other paths. There are lots of different ways to get to this experience that isn't focused on meditation, and those I can do.

I do not believe there is any other way than through meditation. There are many forms of meditation, some more suited to you than others. That I fully recognize. But it's like saying you're going to develope muscle tone without exercise, or achedemic knowledge without reading or being taught. There is no other way to that than meditation. What are you thinking is? A single random peak experience? I don't understand.

 

I might also add, that I am not really interested in losing all attachments. I think thats a bit extreme, to say the least.

Your understanding of that is from the outside trying to wrap your reasoning mind around it. Losing attachement does not mean you do not feel bonds of love and devotion! Not at all! What that means is you hold life with an open hand, then your worries and fears and subsequent suffering at the fear of loss of them is broken. You accept the impermenance of everything, and are therefore now FREE to fully love them. This is something that cannot be grasped by thinking about it philsophically. It is an experiential realization that simply occurs, liberating you from your false ties to life. You become Life Itself in Yourself.

 

I shall add a third time, that no, while I have never (successfully) done any formal type of shikentaza, that I can say that I have lost my self through other means, and I have had experiences similar to the ones we are describing here. Quantification of these interests me almost as much as the experiences themselves, though.

I too am interested in talking about them, but again, they pale in comparsion to swimming in that Ocean, breathing in the Light into your lungs and exhaling Life through them. No "thinking" touches that.

[Noggy]

 

I do not believe there is any other way than through meditation. There are many forms of meditation, some more suited to you than others. That I fully recognize. But it's like saying you're going to develope muscle tone without exercise, or achedemic knowledge without reading or being taught. There is no other way to that than meditation. What are you thinking is? A single random peak experience? I don't understand.

 

 

Yeah, I would say that it requires a "meditative" experience, but when I think of meditation I think of shikentaza, which is nearly impossible for me.

[Deva]

Yeah Noggy, I can't do that one either.

[Antlerman]

[quote name='Noggy' timestamp='1330377330' post='733420']
[quote name='Antlerman' timestamp='1330376020' post='733414']
I do not believe there is any other way than through meditation. There are many forms of meditation, some more suited to you than others. That I fully recognize. But it's like saying you're going to develope muscle tone without exercise, or achedemic knowledge without reading or being taught. There is no other way to that than meditation. What are you thinking is? A single random peak experience? I don't understand.

[/quote]

Yeah, I would say that it requires a "meditative" experience, but when I think of meditation I think of shikentaza, which is nearly impossible for me.
[/quote]
I don't know that I practice that myself per se. It's unfortunate if anyone says there is a correct way to do this. There isn't, aside from doing what works for you. They are all methods or techniques to attain some goal. I'm certain some purist somewhere, if he were ignorant, would say to me, "Your not doing it right". To which I'd respond, perhaps not, but I become God. How about you?

I meditate one hour every morning and the effect is beyond words. I can say in no uncertain terms, there is no other way to where I am going except through meditation. But there is one constant. Being open. One day one thing works better than another. Some days I need to chant mantras, and they take me place that just sitting and doing Zazen will not that day. Other days I put on music that is conducive to meditation, and I use it to go deep within, in the "fields of the gods", as I call it. Other days I do type of Tai Chi, a Yoga, I use candles, incense, singing bowls, bells, silence, etc. What works to take you deep within, is what works. But going within is in fact the only way to get there. Not reading a book and thinking about it or mapping out some model of explanation to try to paint a picture of it for yourself.

There are those that get really hung up on "the right way" because they externalize the whole thing as possessing some sort of 'magic'. The reality is the magic is in you, and all these things, God symbols, prayers, whatever, are simply [i]vehicles [/i]to help you realize that in yourself. All along it's within you, and these are all tools to the realization. Let me share a quote I just read a couple days ago that says this all very well. Would that all these so-called skeptics get this, but alas.....

[indent=1]"But this is not God as an ontological other, set apart from the cosmos, from humans, and from creation at large. Rather, it is God as an archetypal summit of one's own Consciousness. ... By visualizing that identification 'we actually do become the deity. The subject is identified with the object of faith. The worship, the worshiper, and the worshiped, those three are not separate'. At its peak, the soul becomes one, literally one, with the deity-form, with the dhyani-buddha, with (choose whatever term one prefers) God. One dissolves into Deity, as Deity - that Deity which, from the beginning, has been one's own Self or highest Archetype."[/indent]

[indent=1]Ken Wilber, Eye to Eye, pg. 85[/indent]

I heard this story awhile back and I don't know the source, but it's about this young monk who heard about this great master who lived on an island as a hermit. He hired a boatsman to row him out there and when he arrived he heard the master using a favorite mantra of his and was alarmed to hear him saying the words incorrectly! "Master," he said, "I'm afraid you've wasted all these years as you've been saying it wrong". The master asked him to kindly correct him, and then profusely thanked him and immeditately went off chanting the mantra with the correct pronounciation now! As the young monk was leaving with the boatsman on the raft, the boastman froze in shock to see the master come walking across the water towards them. The master called out, "Please, tell me again how to say the mantra! It seems I've forgotten already". The monk told him again, and the master went walking back over the water to his home thanking the young monk for helping him.

[img]http://www.ex-christian.net//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png[/img]

[Antlerman]

I have a question for RevR as to types of meditation practiced. Noggy's statement that he could never practice meditation and then referred to essentially Zazen as what it means to meditate raised this question as to what has been covered so far in this topic.

 

I know that there are basically two types of meditation: concentrative and insight. The first, concentrative-absorptive is to focus on a single object or thought to the exclusion of all others. The latter, insight or awareness meditation, is to essentially defocus your thoughts to all objects, all dots on the wall as an example. It can be described as a receptive-defocal mode of meditation. The goal of both modes of meditation has the same thing in mind which is to break the identification of self with the ego. The secondary effects however are where things differ, and where many who practice the latter say that insight meditation is "better", in that it covers more ground.

 

I understand that with in Zen, which I believe you practice, both these modes of meditation are practiced: concentrative-koan, and receptive-shikantaza. I'm not sure which of these you practice yourself. And can you explain more from your understanding of these?

 

You also have other types of meditation practiced in other religious disciplines that focus on other aspects of higher-consciousness development, which can be broken down into three major classes.

• Nirmanakaya, which deals with the bodily energies towards transformation, such as kundalini yoga.
  
• Sambhogakaya, which moves you into higher regions of what is first identified in things like Kundalini (deity-identification as an example.
  
• Dharmakaya, which takes you into the transcendent, causal regions as "suchness" or "is'ness". Zen functions within this class.
  

Within all of these classes there are various schools and practices, breaking down into those two basic types of meditation with their primary and secondary effects. Myself I touch on a smattering of the various classes of meditation, and practice primarily insight, or the receptive-defocal mode of meditation. However, I also practice concentrative meditation as well within meditation as it too has a certain effect that is necessary at times in order to clear a growing distracted mind (I tend to go "what's that? What's that about? and starting getting into normal reasoning functions, drawing me away from that Light. That's where single-focus puts me back into the right place to be receptive again). The point being, that they all have positive effects, touching on different areas of this transformative path towards higher-mind and being.

 

What thoughts do you wish to contribute to this to help understanding?

[dyanaprajna0]

There are many different kinds of mediation in Buddhism. Some are focused on the ultimate goal of attaining Nirvana/achieving Buddha-hood. Some are more specific to identifying and destroying certain types of attachments, say for instance, mindfulness on the foulness of the body to deal with lust and physical attraction. And, as Antlerman has pointed out, there are also different levels of meditation, some easier than others. Think of it like stops on an elevator, with each stop progressively higher. The higher you get, the longer it's going to take. Just ask yourself what you're wanting to accomplish, and start with the breath.

[Noggy]

Yes, antlerman, you have said it very well. I have a problem with the insightfulness meditation style, the zazen. The one that is transcendent. It's easy for me to focus on an object.

 

Don't get me wrong, its not that I prefer one over the other, in fact, I'm always looking to try new things, but the objectiveness (this word means exactly what you think it would mean in this context) is what draws me to it. I'm not sure I buy all the premises that are required for buddhism. I'm not sure that I buy that life is suffering, or even pratitya samipada.

 

But I can experience darsan, and I experience it everyday.

[Antlerman]

There are many different kinds of mediation in Buddhism. Some are focused on the ultimate goal of attaining Nirvana/achieving Buddha-hood. Some are more specific to identifying and destroying certain types of attachments, say for instance, mindfulness on the foulness of the body to deal with lust and physical attraction.

Can you give some examples of this? I know in my own experience it became an exposure to the shadow-persona. This is one of the things that those who practice insight meditation say that concentrative meditation does not work well. By being actively absorbed in a single focus, it forces out all other thoughts that arise from the embedded subconscious mind, which would include the repressive - our shadow self. In insight meditation, everything is allow to arise including the shadow. In my personal experience it was/is felt as a sort of dark presence in the room, a certain unpleasant tension that evokes fear. Intuitively I knew to trust the experience and instead of trying to drive it out, to do the opposite and embrace it. It was very difficult to do this, but the end result of much struggle with this was a profound release of energy in me that I can only describe as light shooting out of my head. It nearly dropped me flat. What this is is integrating our lower self, harnessing its energy and uniting it into higher mind, becoming whole rather than dissociated.

 

I'm hesitant when I hear speak of the "foulness" of the body, and view that we should suppress these on a higher path. Feeding the demon does not mean giving into lusts and acting out on them, but instead taking their energies and feeding them light, higher truth. Their hunger never dies, but to feed it higher truth, to release it into light, empowers the whole body, the whole mind, the whole spirit. The hunger becomes satisfied and serves higher Self. IMO.

[Antlerman]

Yes, antlerman, you have said it very well. I have a problem with the insightfulness meditation style, the zazen. The one that is transcendent. It's easy for me to focus on an object.

My understanding of Zazen is that it includes both. The practice of concentrative meditation opens you to insight meditation. In fact, that is exactly how it happened for me when I first started meditating. I simply began trying to still thoughts, catching the processes of random distracting thoughts popping up (the monkey mind) and becoming aware of them as such. It was quite amazing to see this and to recognize them as processes of the body, in this case the brain. Recognizing them as such began to break my ego-identification within them. I felt stresses and anxieties leave my body.

 

In just simply practicing that, sitting in quite and stilling thoughts, organically, vivid, non-distracting thought began emerging. I found myself, 'just going with them', following them from a place of detached Witness. In this, they began to unfold into spectacular imagery of light ascending and descending, intense presence surrounding me, a variety of archetypal imagery, gods, sword, flame, fields, rivers, water, etc. Very powerful, engaging imagery that informs and draws out of our unconscious mind iconic symbols of our archaic-consciousness, and additionally from our emergent consciousness archetypal symbols of higher mind, higher Self. I experience this every time I meditate now, as well as points of going beyond these into utter stillness where there is nothing but clear mind, all imagery ceases. You awaken, but not as when you began.

 

I can tell you a few key things I have learned in this short time I've been doing this, and the first is that you do not seek to produce any of this! You don't look for it. All you do is simply put yourself into quite and open the mind to it. As it arises, you pour yourself into it, you empty yourself, you step out of yourself, setting aside all those identifications with the body and the ego into that higher light. In this immersion, you become clothed in it and your identification shifts. What you experience from within you, your body, your mind, your soul, are beyond anything reasoning or thinking about any object in your rational mind can possibly move you into.

 

Now "how" I move into the spaces really depends on what's going on in my physical body, and subsequently my mind dependent on brain. I completely quit drinking coffee because of how it affects the mind in meditation. A few days ago I found it difficult to sustain any prolonged periods of opened-focus because my body was fighting off some bug. My brain was fatigued, and so the mind was affected by that. Not a big deal. Instead try something else. I just sat and breathed in contentment, thankful for all of this. Even in that simple act, there was fulness. You dump all self-critical evaluation in all of this, another key factor in meditation. In the first stages, its all about learning how to remove obstacles, and to work with yourself.

 

The second important thing is to ground the experience, whatever it is, into your waking mind. You plumb those depths to expose you to whatever is there for yourself to tap into, swim in it, explore it within, and then take that and bring it back with you, so to speak, into your 'normal' waking mind as you go out into the day. Through this begins transformation of consciousness into a permanent adaptation. I believe it is more than possible to live every moment in the world in a 'satori' mind - as it is no longer a state, but an adaptation. I believe it is what our evolution moves all of us towards. We develop this as a permanent growth stage.

 

But I can experience darsan, and I experience it everyday.

You mean Darsana? You have visions of the divine? And you say you can't experience insight meditation???

[Noggy]

Yes, antlerman, you have said it very well. I have a problem with the insightfulness meditation style, the zazen. The one that is transcendent. It's easy for me to focus on an object.

My understanding of Zazen is that it includes both. The practice of concentrative meditation opens you to insight meditation. In fact, that is exactly how it happened for me when I first started meditating. I simply began trying to still thoughts, catching the processes of random distracting thoughts popping up (the monkey mind) and becoming aware of them as such. It was quite amazing to see this and to recognize them as processes of the body, in this case the brain. Recognizing them as such began to break my ego-identification within them. I felt stresses and anxieties leave my body.

 

In just simply practicing that, sitting in quite and stilling thoughts, organically, vivid, non-distracting thought began emerging. I found myself, 'just going with them', following them from a place of detached Witness. In this, they began to unfold into spectacular imagery of light ascending and descending, intense presence surrounding me, a variety of archetypal imagery, gods, sword, flame, fields, rivers, water, etc. Very powerful, engaging imagery that informs and draws out of our unconscious mind iconic symbols of our archaic-consciousness, and additionally from our emergent consciousness archetypal symbols of higher mind, higher Self. I experience this every time I meditate now, as well as points of going beyond these into utter stillness where there is nothing but clear mind, all imagery ceases. You awaken, but not as when you began.

 

I can tell you a few key things I have learned in this short time I've been doing this, and the first is that you do not seek to produce any of this! You don't look for it. All you do is simply put yourself into quite and open the mind to it. As it arises, you pour yourself into it, you empty yourself, you step out of yourself, setting aside all those identifications with the body and the ego into that higher light. In this immersion, you become clothed in it and your identification shifts. What you experience from within you, your body, your mind, your soul, are beyond anything reasoning or thinking about any object in your rational mind can possibly move you into.

 

Now "how" I move into the spaces really depends on what's going on in my physical body, and subsequently my mind dependent on brain. I completely quit drinking coffee because of how it affects the mind in meditation. A few days ago I found it difficult to sustain any prolonged periods of opened-focus because my body was fighting off some bug. My brain was fatigued, and so the mind was affected by that. Not a big deal. Instead try something else. I just sat and breathed in contentment, thankful for all of this. Even in that simple act, there was fulness. You dump all self-critical evaluation in all of this, another key factor in meditation. In the first stages, its all about learning how to remove obstacles, and to work with yourself.

 

The second important thing is to ground the experience, whatever it is, into your waking mind. You plumb those depths to expose you to whatever is there for yourself to tap into, swim in it, explore it within, and then take that and bring it back with you, so to speak, into your 'normal' waking mind as you go out into the day. Through this begins transformation of consciousness into a permanent adaptation. I believe it is more than possible to live every moment in the world in a 'satori' mind - as it is no longer a state, but an adaptation. I believe it is what our evolution moves all of us towards. We develop this as a permanent growth stage.

 

But I can experience darsan, and I experience it everyday.

You mean Darsana? You have visions of the divine? And you say you can't experience insight meditation???

 

I think the distinction I was trying to make is what you talked about here. I can't empty the mind, from the idea of emptiness. Meditating on the void, or whatever Zen people call it, to get to transcendence doesn't really work for me. I can't visualize nothing. I can't empty the mind to a point of nothingness. However, I find it much easier to focus on an object and to concentrate on that. I stole a bit of practice from a book, so I usually use a flame. I feed all of my thoughts and desires and images into that mental flame, and allow it to consume them. But things keep coming, eventually, from what I understand, you're supposed to be able to put all into the flame, and then extinguish the flame and then you experience mushin, or "no mind". I've never been able to do that. I experience what you do, which is things appearing from all direction. My imagination runs wild.

 

Thats why I prefer the taoist idea of emptiness to the buddhist idea of emptiness. I cant empty the mind, but I can "empty" the mind to allow the will of my subconscious, or tao, or whatever to flow through it. This invigorates me, and this is the truth for me. Probably why I'm so confused by mushin, its just never worked.

[Antlerman]

I experience what you do, which is things appearing from all direction. My imagination runs wild.

Let's be clear about a distinction here. Your imagination running wild sounds like you're describing being plagued by distracting thought. That sound like monkey-mind going ballistic because you're trying to tell it to not do what you normally ask it to do. This is not what happens to me in insight meditation. If it does, then I have to settle it down, and I have techniques for that. But that thoughts arise from the unconscious is to be expected and desirable. The difference is you are not sitting there "thinking about them", you are more a witness to them and they impress you and provoke a certain sort of non-verbal insight. If this is what you are experiencing, then by all means quit telling yourself you're not supposed to have any thoughts at all!! My god! Go with them. This is what insight meditation is.

 

I can very distinctly tell the difference in meditation when it is that free-flowing arising thought in the subtle realm, versus when I've slipped into normal rational cognitive thought. When I do the latter, I soon find myself no longer on that subtle-level plane. This is the problem with going into this with expectations. Exactly what I said the first thing you should not do! If you are in there and the sky opens before you and your mind floats freely, with imagery arising, this is exactly what is supposed to happen. If you are sitting there thinking about crap in your head, thinking about this or that of the day, etc, then you are distracted. See the difference?

 

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if you already experience this. What would help if you describe specifically what you call your mind running wild. Once you move into that open space, then as you go with it many things will open to you that you could not penetrate any other way, such as through reasoning it out sort of thing. That's the point. For the moment I'll leave it there until you explain more. It just sounds like you're trying to fit your experiences with what you think you "should" be experiencing. Hopefully this will clarify this for you if you are in fact going into that space.

[dyanaprajna0]

There are many different kinds of mediation in Buddhism. Some are focused on the ultimate goal of attaining Nirvana/achieving Buddha-hood. Some are more specific to identifying and destroying certain types of attachments, say for instance, mindfulness on the foulness of the body to deal with lust and physical attraction.

Can you give some examples of this? I know in my own experience it became an exposure to the shadow-persona. This is one of the things that those who practice insight meditation say that concentrative meditation does not work well. By being actively absorbed in a single focus, it forces out all other thoughts that arise from the embedded subconscious mind, which would include the repressive - our shadow self. In insight meditation, everything is allow to arise including the shadow. In my personal experience it was/is felt as a sort of dark presence in the room, a certain unpleasant tension that evokes fear. Intuitively I knew to trust the experience and instead of trying to drive it out, to do the opposite and embrace it. It was very difficult to do this, but the end result of much struggle with this was a profound release of energy in me that I can only describe as light shooting out of my head. It nearly dropped me flat. What this is is integrating our lower self, harnessing its energy and uniting it into higher mind, becoming whole rather than dissociated.

 

I'm hesitant when I hear speak of the "foulness" of the body, and view that we should suppress these on a higher path. Feeding the demon does not mean giving into lusts and acting out on them, but instead taking their energies and feeding them light, higher truth. Their hunger never dies, but to feed it higher truth, to release it into light, empowers the whole body, the whole mind, the whole spirit. The hunger becomes satisfied and serves higher Self. IMO.

 

In Theravada, there's the 40 kammatthana, or meditation objects, each with the own object of mediation, purpose, and so forth. I started where everyone else, regardless of spiritual tradition, starts, and that's on meditation on the breath. I started specifically with anapanasati, as this was the first meditation I learned. It helped immensely for me, to calm my mind, and I even began to notice, quick quickly actually, the release of certain vices, and the gaining of certain virtues, albeit in a very unperfected form. But I've always thought of meditations like zazen and vipassana to be a more 'straight for the goal' type thing. My basic meditation is zazen. And I've had similar experiences like you've had, although mine felt more like a general release of large amounts of heat from my body. I've heard this explained in various ways, but I won't go into any details, unless you want to hear them, in which case, I'd be more than happy to provide. But I'd have to say, that meditation on the hua-tou has done a great deal in helping me have experiences that are simply unexplainable.

[Rev R]

I know that there are basically two types of meditation: concentrative and insight. The first, concentrative-absorptive is to focus on a single object or thought to the exclusion of all others. The latter, insight or awareness meditation, is to essentially defocus your thoughts to all objects, all dots on the wall as an example. It can be described as a receptive-defocal mode of meditation. The goal of both modes of meditation has the same thing in mind which is to break the identification of self with the ego. The secondary effects however are where things differ, and where many who practice the latter say that insight meditation is "better", in that it covers more ground.

I can't comment on one means being better than another other than that any given method is not always suited for everyone. Naturally that is why there are so many variations on the practice. I will add that a great majority of "Buddhists" do not actually practice any form of meditation.

 

I understand that with in Zen, which I believe you practice, both these modes of meditation are practiced: concentrative-koan, and receptive-shikantaza. I'm not sure which of these you practice yourself. And can you explain more from your understanding of these?

Zen encompasses far more than just these two meditation styles. Zen can be expressed through painting, calligraphy, poetry, gardening, and even martial arts. The object, if you can truly call it that, is to infuse all activity with the spirit behind the teaching.

 

The Fuki Zen sect (now defunct) used a technique with the shakuhachi called suizen, or breathing meditation.

 

My personal practice is adapted from the teachings of Suzuki Shosan. While Shosan considered his thinking to be in line with the Soto school, he considered the sitting practice of the monks in his time to be lacking in vitality. He suggested two central practices uncommon in Japanese Zen. The first was the recitation of the nembutsu (my main practice). Most folks are familiar with the nembutsu through the practice of the Jodo and Shin schools where it is used as a means to insure rebirth in the Western Pure Land of Amida. Shosan, however, compared the nembutsu to a sword which one uses to cut away the passions. Recitation is meant to infuse our daily activities with the spirit of religious practice- in a sense transforming the mundane into the sacred.

 

The second method Shosan recommended was Nio Zazen. This is a meditation involving the images of the Nio or Fudo Myo-O. His idea was to examine the attributes of these figures and become infused with what he called their vital energy. The figures of the Nio were used at the entrances to some temples as guardian figures. Fudo Myo-O is a "wrathful" incarnation of Dainichi Nyorai. He is a protector of the Dharma and a destroyer of "evil". Shosan felt that by meditating on these figures one could learn to apply their ferocity to eliminating harmful desires and to the investigation of the Great Matter of life and death.

 

I study koans as well, but Shosan's teaching is the source of the "hard style" you are familiar with from me.

 

It is not a method that is suited for everyone so when I speak of meditation in general, I go with the method outlined in Dogen's Fukanzazengi

 

Hopefully that helps.

[Rev R]

My apologies for taking so long to get to these questions.

 

Why must your mind be completely still before you are able to be aware of everything? I don't see how that follows.

Let us say that I have a sealed glass filled 2/3 with a clear oil and 1/3 with colored water. If I shake the glass the water and oil mix for a time and the contents become an agitated mass that obscures any attempt to see through it. If I put the glass down on the counter the contents will settle eventually return to its original state and things can be seen clearly through the glass.

 

What does losing all attachments mean? Sometimes I get the impression that it's a depressing way of disconnecting from life, a sort of "if I don't care, then it can't hurt me". But I've also read a book that described it more as focusing on the good (and bad) experiences in the moment they happen and not... clinging to the memories and shadows that happen afterwards. The first seems associated with the idea that you shouldn't strive for much in this life because that's a symptom of attachment; the second seems to encourage you to see out new, positive experiences instead of trying to recreate past positive experiences that you'll never get back anyway. Is having ambitions and goal a form of attachment that should be avoided, or is it more that... an addiction to/obsession with the future or the past prevents you from getting the most out of your life right now?

An interesting question.

 

Two monks were walking down a road after a rainstorm. After a time they came across a rich woman and her servants. The servants had their hands full with all the packages the woman had brought back from town and the woman was berating them for not being able to help her out of the palanquin. The senior monk walked over, picked up the woman and carried her to her door. All the while she berated the monk for his disrespect.

Hours later, the younger monk spoke to his elder.

"Brother, that woman was quite rude in how she spoke to you. Could she not see that you were helping her?"

The older monk replied, "Brother, I put that woman down hours ago. Why do you still carry her?"

 

When one thing has passed, move along to the next. Do not obsess over the temporary nature of things. This is detachment.

[Noggy]

Two monks were walking down a road after a rainstorm. After a time they came across a rich woman and her servants. The servants had their hands full with all the packages the woman had brought back from town and the woman was berating them for not being able to help her out of the palanquin. The senior monk walked over, picked up the woman and carried her to her door. All the while she berated the monk for his disrespect.

Hours later, the younger monk spoke to his elder.

"Brother, that woman was quite rude in how she spoke to you. Could she not see that you were helping her?"

The older monk replied, "Brother, I put that woman down hours ago. Why do you still carry her?"

 

When one thing has passed, move along to the next. Do not obsess over the temporary nature of things. This is detachment.

 

This is my favorite koan, by far.

 

Also, I approve of your chosen turkey-headed jedi avatar.