Deva Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 OK, since everything was deleted due to forum crash, my reply to Agnosticator: Every practice we do is dedicated to the benefit of all beings. There are very powerful practices that stress giving of yourself of your life, body, posessions, etc. to "all sentient beings who have been my parents." The idea here is that you have had so many past lives that every sentient being that you see has been your mother or father in a past life. You cannot know how to help others if your own mind is clouded by obscurations. Discernment is gained through awareness (awareness is the key!) and this is gained through meditation. I think you just have to work from where you are at. It may be something small but actions accumulate. Personally, I am working on being more open to people, even just looking them in the eye more, not being negative, and smiling more. I think working on yourself is reflected automatically outwardly. I don't know if that is what you are asking. Christian baggage I have had to deal with - plenty of it - especially dogmatic thinking and a low self image. Some of the Buddhist practices used to bother me - they were remeniscent of Christian prayer and communion. Somehow I have been able to overcome much of it by realizing that in fact these practices were not the same although outwardly they may have resembled them.. My training ground is the office, not a hut or cave in Tibet. My major teachers are my bosses and my co-workers. The office is more difficult than the hut or cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 To add to Deva's repost of stuff lost in the crash, I'm going to summarize something I learned from some posts that have been lost. (But I'm not a Buddhist and not an expert on it, so I could still have some things wrong.) The closest thing to meditation that I learned as a Christian was prayer. There was supposed to be some internal work going on when you did that, but it was also very much about "cast all your cares upon Him" and asking a powerful entity outside of you to change things in the world. This can be a very bad thing when someone offers to pray for you but won't offer any practical help. In Buddhist meditation, there is a bit of drawing on the power of the Bodhisattvas (sorta; I can see them as personifications of virtues, and it's about becoming them, not just borrowing from them or asking them to act without you), and you dedicate the good stuff from your meditation to the benefit of all sentient beings. This bothers me because it reminds me of Christians who won't do anything more for you than pray, and I don't want to focus on feeling warm fuzzies towards other people to the exclusion of acting nice towards them. But the difference in Buddhism is that meditation is a way to practice having healthier attitudes so that when you are in stressful situations, you're prepared, and your natural reaction is to act with compassion and wisdom. For example, if you have anger issues, then you should do internal work in meditation to treat the causes/triggers of your anger, which will improve your interactions with other people. So it's even better than a "God, help me be a nice person" prayer, because it gives you practical steps on the work you need to do to become that nice person. And it's honest about it requiring work on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 To add to Deva's repost of stuff lost in the crash, I'm going to summarize something I learned from some posts that have been lost. (But I'm not a Buddhist and not an expert on it, so I could still have some things wrong.) Well, I am a Buddhist (a new one) and I definately could still have some things wrong. Let's discuss anyway - but let it be known that I am not qualified to teach, I can only share my own perceptions (which may be wrong!). The closest thing to meditation that I learned as a Christian was prayer. There was supposed to be some internal work going on when you did that, but it was also very much about "cast all your cares upon Him" and asking a powerful entity outside of you to change things in the world. This can be a very bad thing when someone offers to pray for you but won't offer any practical help. That's right. There is a more meditative tradition in the Catholic Church - contemplative prayer, which is even closer to Buddhist meditation than Protestant prayers. In fact, it is almost identical - the object of focus is different, of course. In Buddhist meditation, there is a bit of drawing on the power of the Bodhisattvas (sorta; I can see them as personifications of virtues, and it's about becoming them, not just borrowing from them or asking them to act without you), and you dedicate the good stuff from your meditation to the benefit of all sentient beings. This bothers me because it reminds me of Christians who won't do anything more for you than pray, and I don't want to focus on feeling warm fuzzies towards other people to the exclusion of acting nice towards them. But the difference in Buddhism is that meditation is a way to practice having healthier attitudes so that when you are in stressful situations, you're prepared, and your natural reaction is to act with compassion and wisdom. For example, if you have anger issues, then you should do internal work in meditation to treat the causes/triggers of your anger, which will improve your interactions with other people. So it's even better than a "God, help me be a nice person" prayer, because it gives you practical steps on the work you need to do to become that nice person. And it's honest about it requiring work on your part. Its hard to make a general statement as to what Buddhist meditation is. There are many schools of Buddhism. There is shamatha meditation and vipassana meditation, and there may be more. The purpose of shamatha meditation is learning to concentrate on an object for extended periods of time and letting thoughts come and go - this way the transitory nature of thought is seen. Thoughts are let go of rather than grasped. That is the purpose. I have not done vipassana mediation, so I will leave it to someone more qualified to explain it. I don't see it as drawing on the power of any outside force, except in the vajrayana it could possibly appear it was the Lama (guru) to an observer not familiar with what is going on. However, it must be understood that there is no separation. From what I have learned, the original nature of your mind is pure. The goal is to realize this. I don't really want to go into it too much, because I am still a very new student myself. I can say that from what I have heard - samasara is nirvana. The original nature of the mind is love, joy, peace, etc.. and it will naturally be reflected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 What is satori? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 What is satori? Satori is the Japanese term for "enlightenment" or, probably more accurately, "seeing things as they are". It is often interchanged with the term "kensho" which is a temporary flash of insight into reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 What is satori? Satori is the Japanese term for "enlightenment" or, probably more accurately, "seeing things as they are". It is often interchanged with the term "kensho" which is a temporary flash of insight into reality. Thank you I'm looking a little beyond the definition of it. What IS it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 an unthinkable thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badpuppy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 an unthinkable thought Does a thought exist without a thinker? So can it really be unthinkable? Something has to think a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 overthinking it a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badpuppy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 overthinking it a bit I was just being contrary. But... touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā Gone beyond. But the Sanskrit is utranslatable into a grammatical sentence. "Edward Conze attempted to render the mantra into English as: "gone gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all hail!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_Sutra Awakening. Thinking about it too much doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badpuppy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā Gone beyond. But the Sanskrit is utranslatable into a grammatical sentence. "Edward Conze attempted to render the mantra into English as: "gone gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all hail!" http://en.wikipedia....iki/Heart_Sutra Awakening. Thinking about it too much doesn't help. I think "thinking" and "believing" are things we do which block us sometimes from "experiencing". I'm not sure why we (human beings) are like this. I do it a lot, too. But I'm happiest when I "get out of my head" and experience and do and create and be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 a lot of mantras and dharanis make no sense translated. I think it has something to do with the sound rather than the meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 gate gate pāragate pārasaṃgate bodhi svāhā Gone beyond. But the Sanskrit is utranslatable into a grammatical sentence. "Edward Conze attempted to render the mantra into English as: "gone gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all hail!" http://en.wikipedia....iki/Heart_Sutra Awakening. Thinking about it too much doesn't help. That is one of my favorite mantras. I connect it in my mind with this saying of the Buddha when I regularly recite it, “Wanting nothing With all your heart Stop the stream. When the world dissolves Everything becomes clear. Go beyond This way or that way, to the farther shore Where the world dissolves And everything becomes clear. Beyond this shore And the farther shore, Beyond the beyond, Where there is no beginning, No end. Without fear, go.” Very powerful to me personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 That is one of my favorite mantras. I connect it in my mind with this saying of the Buddha when I regularly recite it, “Wanting nothing With all your heart Stop the stream. When the world dissolves Everything becomes clear. Go beyond This way or that way, to the farther shore Where the world dissolves And everything becomes clear. Beyond this shore And the farther shore, Beyond the beyond, Where there is no beginning, No end. Without fear, go.” Very powerful to me personally. This was the very first mantra I learned- maybe 10 years ago. I thought it was just so great, just the sound of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noggy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 an unthinkable thought ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 an unthinkable thought ? Nothing, means no-thing. No object. Thinking reuqires an object of consideration, something defined. An unthinkable thought is just thought itself. Pure Mind. Pure Awareness with no object of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 That is one of my favorite mantras. I connect it in my mind with this saying of the Buddha when I regularly recite it, “Wanting nothing With all your heart Stop the stream. When the world dissolves Everything becomes clear. Go beyond This way or that way, to the farther shore Where the world dissolves And everything becomes clear. Beyond this shore And the farther shore, Beyond the beyond, Where there is no beginning, No end. Without fear, go.” Very powerful to me personally. This was the very first mantra I learned- maybe 10 years ago. I thought it was just so great, just the sound of it. It is. I like the White Tara mantra with its rythmical qualities in addition to its foucs, "Om Tare Tu Tare Ture Mama Ah Yuh Pune Jana Putim Kuru Soha". Another powerful one is the Medicine Buddha, "Teyata Om Bekanze Bekanze Maha Bekanze Bekanze Radza Sumutgate Soha". My newest favorite is the Guru Rinpoche Mantra, "Om Ah Hung Benza Guru Pema Siddhi Hung" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Nothing, means no-thing. No object. Thinking reuqires an object of consideration, something defined. An unthinkable thought is just thought itself. Pure Mind. Pure Awareness with no object of thought. But even this is merely a reflection. You see Noggy, it works something like this: If it happens, it happens, then it fades and you back to the dishes or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Nothing, means no-thing. No object. Thinking reuqires an object of consideration, something defined. An unthinkable thought is just thought itself. Pure Mind. Pure Awareness with no object of thought. But even this is merely a reflection. Of course it is. To say any word is to define it, and at that point it is not it. There is no way to express "it", not even like that. Words are fingers pointing. You see Noggy, it works something like this: If it happens, it happens, then it fades and you back to the dishes or whatever. It can happen arbitrarily, but it is also reproducable, in a sense. The more you put yourself in the right place, the odds are increased. So when someone says you do nothing, that is correct, in a sense. It is nothing you produce. But doing nothing does not mean just doing nothing at all as in just going and watching a football game or something spending your entire life focused on feeding your meat sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 ... spending your entire life focused on feeding your meat sack. A once heard a crude philosopher opine about sitting on the toilet. So I wrote him a poem. minimum requirements metabolism and repair an organism I do be dancing phenotype and genotype we eat, excrete, and breed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 but here is the deal. too much emphasis is placed on the peak and the exact nature of that experience. what is forgotten is the simple, practical, ordinaryness of the thing. there is a koan that goes something like this: What is Zen? when hungry I eat. when tired I sleep. if it is always about "it", you are missing the point. Is "emptiness" the ultimate state of reality? Who cares? If it is beyond words, why are so many used to speak of it? It's not random, it's not reproducable it's just this. we aren't separate from it. it isn't hidden. we just think it is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 It is. I like the White Tara mantra with its rythmical qualities in addition to its foucs, "Om Tare Tu Tare Ture Mama Ah Yuh Pune Jana Putim Kuru Soha". Yes, I like that one too. I say "Om Tara tutare ture soha". I am attending practices of the Nyingma school so we think highly (to say the least) of Guru Rinpoche, his mantra "Om Ah Hung Benza Guru Pema Siddhi Hung" is part of the Ngondro practice. The goal is 100,000 repetitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Is "emptiness" the ultimate state of reality? Who cares? If it is beyond words, why are so many used to speak of it? It's not random, it's not reproducable it's just this. we aren't separate from it. it isn't hidden. we just think it is. This... And mystics go on and on and on about experiences beyond description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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