Repenting After Death

[Ouroboros]

That's human thinking!

Yup.

 

We are humans. We think like humans.

 

I can only assume that you are superhuman since you're not using human thinking.

[mymistake]

this thread is getting barfworthy - I'm out.

 

We can put our differences aside and greet each other?

 

But you don't put our differences aside. You insist on trying to convert people who are not interested in your religion. If you would accept that we are not going to change then we could be pals. Talk about something else - anything else. I'm not going back to Christianity. Most of the people here are not going back either. if I tattoo a "666" on the back of my right hand would that convince you to stop trying to change me? I'm willing to go that far if it would work.

[bdp]

http://youtu.be/BDugiZkhdtE

[bdp]

http://youtu.be/dKQlrJMiyEs

[Thumbelina]

No, according to the bible you are dead while you're living. I realize some people were taught shame based religion; the bible does NOT teach that! My God is rooting for me and He helps me along. I can tell Him EVERYTHING.

According to ME, I'm alive when I'm living.

 

Right now, what you did above there, is one of those evangelizing things I hate about Christianity. The inability to accept other people's views and beliefs.

 

Look at the sentiments, Mr always looking to demonize God and His Word!

Seeing reality is not demonizing.

 

The world does not give the peace that God gives.

I've had both. I am at a better position to judge that about myself than you or your old book. You believe what you believe. I know what I know. I am what I am. Your belief does not influence my life, and doesn't become true because you believe so.

 

 

Ah, some folks are eventually gonna thank us Christians for nagging them Christians have a transcendent moral absolute that they get instructions from.; alas, we don't follow His instructions as closely as we should. We aren't to force others to believe as we do but we ought to preach to whomever hath an ear. We both agree about freedom of choice, right?

[Thumbelina]

That's human thinking!

Yup.

 

We are humans. We think like humans.

 

I can only assume that you are superhuman since you're not using human thinking.

 

*chuckle* Christians have the mind of God.

[Thumbelina]

this thread is getting barfworthy - I'm out.

 

We can put our differences aside and greet each other?

 

But you don't put our differences aside. You insist on trying to convert people who are not interested in your religion. If you would accept that we are not going to change then we could be pals. Talk about something else - anything else. I'm not going back to Christianity. Most of the people here are not going back either. if I tattoo a "666" on the back of my right hand would that convince you to stop trying to change me? I'm willing to go that far if it would work.

 

I talk to whomever hath an ear. Maybe an eunuch will be searching the scriptures and stumble upon my posts. All of heaven delights over even one repentant sinner you know? Centauri does not belive that, he thinks God is diabolical and wants to see us fail.

[bdp]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-__VV94ziiQ

[agnosticator]

Christians have a transcendent moral absolute that they get instructions from.

 

That's rich!

[Thumbelina]

Christians have a transcendent moral absolute that they get instructions from.

 

That's rich!

 

I think I might give you an award for being the sassiest ex Christian (if one ignores your blasphemies i.e. ). Gotta go, take care.

[Ouroboros]

Ah, some folks are eventually gonna thank us Christians for nagging them

Actually, the nagging turns people off, away from it, not towards it.

 

Christians have a transcendent moral absolute that they get instructions from.; alas, we don't follow His instructions as closely as we should. We aren't to force others to believe as we do but we ought to preach to whomever hath an ear.

No. Christians are in reality masked moral relativists. They change their color to culture and time, but argue that they always had the "absolute" sense.

 

We both agree about freedom of choice, right?

Yes and no. But that's another discussion.

[Ouroboros]

*chuckle* Christians have the mind of God.

It's called grandiosity.

[mymistake]

Christians have a transcendent moral absolute that they get instructions from.;

 

That is a fucking lie.

 

Your "transcendent moral absolute" said rape victims should be forced to marry their rapists. Your TMA ordered genocide of entire cities, even babies, just because a different people lived in a land that TMA wanted taken over by his own people. That TMA ordered the genocide of "God's chosen people", including babies by the thousands, because two (2) women were raped and one (1) died.

 

You lie to yourself all you want but nobody else has to believe you.

 

alas, we don't follow His instructions as closely as we should.

 

In the Old Testament God would strike people dead for that. Prevent the Ark of the Covenent from falling over and you get struck dead without mercy. In your mythology God wiped out all life on this planes except for a boat load on account of God making a flawed plan.

 

We aren't to force others to believe as we do but we ought to preach to whomever hath an ear.

 

Then stop preaching here.

 

We both agree about freedom of choice, right?

 

No, you think mafia style coercion is respecting "free will" when God does it. The rest of us don't suffer from that delusion. In Christian mythology people are born as sin bots. They can't do anything but sin. That is not free will.

[Thumbelina]

Ah, some folks are eventually gonna thank us Christians for nagging them

Actually, the nagging turns people off, away from it, not towards it.

 

 

No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

 

I had a Christian nagger in my past and I am glad they nagged me!

 

 

Christians have a transcendent moral absolute that they get instructions from.; alas, we don't follow His instructions as closely as we should. We aren't to force others to believe as we do but we ought to preach to whomever hath an ear.

 

 

No. Christians are in reality masked moral relativists. They change their color to culture and time, but argue that they always had the "absolute" sense.

 

God's principles never changes.

 

 

We both agree about freedom of choice, right?

Yes and no. But that's another discussion.

[mymistake]

That's human thinking!

Yup.

 

We are humans. We think like humans.

 

I can only assume that you are superhuman since you're not using human thinking.

 

*chuckle* Christians have the mind of God.

 

The way OrdinaryClay got his ass handed to him that means God doesn't know the first thing about logic. Why is God so stupid?

[Thumbelina]

*chuckle* Christians have the mind of God.

It's called grandiosity.

 

Says you, Mr. Negative.

Eh, Christian hubris heads can be a pain

[mcdaddy]

<p>

OC- just off the top of my head, I can think of only the titles of a few without looking at my library history. A history of God, the Evolution of God, the River of God, Jealous gods and chosen people, Discovering God, John Shelby Spong, Bart Ehrman, I could go on and on. I had serious questions in my early 20s but for about a decade only read apologetic type stuff, trying to calm my mind and reaffirm my beliefs. But eventually I hit a point where I wanted the truth no matter how ugly or unwelcome it was. I couldn't handle the contorted responses by apologists anymore. If " the faith" we're true, science would bear it out, as would the archaeological record. They didn't. God shouldn't need apologists.

 

Along with the fact I always knew, that OT bible god was nothing like NT bible god. And the horrible completely unjust barbaric concept of hell ( which is pagan in origin - not a "revelation") .  Too many problems for xianity to overcome. It's a religion just like any other on earth. And truthsurge's videos really hit home too. The evidence against Christianity being literally true is overwhelming.  I would have to be insane to believe anything that unrealistic and illogic anymore. It's like believing in Zeus. Bible stories aren't any more believable than Greek myth.

 

Thanks for the list!!

 

Have you studied any natural theology? What apologists did you read?

 

I see you are an atheist. Are you a materialist? Do you believe in any supernatural reality.

 

btw - I viewed a few of TruthSurges videos and to be honest they seemed shallow, juvenile or both.

 

1) If you think truthsurge is juvenile or shallow, thats fine.  I dont know what you mean by "shallow" though.  He's only making youtube videos that basically parrot what has been put forth in books he's read.  And while no one can say 100% whether those theories are true, they look pretty damning to me.  Why doesnt he mention ANYTHING about Jesus' earthly life?  huh?  and why are there SO many "coincidences" with The Odyssey"? huh?  I guess in your mind thats all they'll ever be...just creepy, spooky coincidences that should be a billion to one if that theory wasn't correct.  Anyways.  I find that information presenting a huge problem to christianity.  whats your apologetics for those two issues? Mythicism re: Paul's authentic letters, and the Odyssey comparison?2) As far as what apologists Ive read, its been a few years, I cant remember authors, nor do I have a history I can refer back to.  I guess most were not "apologetics" in the most direct sense, as that being the sole point of the book, but what I read was the christian POV on scientific problems presented by, well, science.  but really how much apologetics do I need to read? Ive sat in a pew for 30+ years of my life.  I know the score.  Its not as though I dont know the fundamentals of the religion.  Its not as if I havent read the bible countless times.  Ever since I was old enough to remember Ive had issues with the text.  so many things that gave me cognitive dissonance with reality, and even basic goodness at times.  You can invoke the abused wife syndrome all you want and say that no matter how bad God looks at times, he's really a good guy, just give him a chance, he loves me, yada yada yada...in the OT he was a tribal warrior god they sacrificed to to help them defeat enemies, and he didnt give a shit about anyone other than israelites.  Its so consistent with what ancient nomadic people would write 3000 years ago.  Marry your rapist?  Kill unruly kids?  yeah, thats Jesus alright.  3)  as far as if I think theres anything supernatural...hell, i dont know, and neither do you.  theres squat verifiable evidence for it.  So you tell me what that means. Sorry my comps messed up and wont let me break this into smaller chunks for some reason.

[mcdaddy]

It's nice that you can look for happiness in this sad world but technically an atheist worldview offers no hope to folk who don't have relatively peaceful lives.

 

Perhaps not. That's why I don't evangelize atheism to other people. You believe whatever you want. I don't disturb Christian websites or churches. I leave you all alone to live your blissful ignorant lives. It's okay with me that you need imaginary friends and endless lives after death to make sense of life. But I don't need it. If you need it, then have at it. Don't assume that I need it because you do.

 

 

Yes, I realize you're not like those fundametalist atheist evangelicals out there who are monumentally ignorant of the bible and are ever MISQUOTING it. I know secular people who do not care about God or the bible and they don't go about knocking it, they simply do not care. The believer leaves them alone but if an atheist does not want God and therefore CHOOSES not to believe in Him they should at least learn how the bible is to be studied instead of spewing tripe. If not, they should follow the regular secularists and eat, drink and be merry and leave the bible alone cuz the bible is NOT for unbelievers, it's for sons and potential sons!

 

Christains can have the best of both worlds as it were. God wants us to enjoy this life too -->

 

I'm enjoy this life more now. And calmer and more accepting to our situation and the impossibility to change it. Hoping that God somehow has a plan made our live miserable and frustrating. Knowing that there's no superpower enforcing some grand plan made life easier.

 

No, according to the bible you are dead while you're living. I realize some people were taught shame based religion; the bible does NOT teach that! My God is rooting for me and He helps me along. I can tell Him EVERYTHING.

 

 

 

Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul. 3 John 1:2

 

 

Sure.

 

Prayer is the easiest cop-out to do any actual work. But that's a discussion for another topic.

 

 

 

Look at the sentiments, Mr always looking to demonize God and His Word!

 

Happinesst may not always be possible, but that's when He gives the peace that passes understanding and He gives joy.

 

 

 

I found joy without religion as well.

 

The world does not give the peace that God gives.

 

 

You do understand the difference between flipping God the bird, and saying that one has zero reason to believe it even exists, right? Doesn't seem like you do. We aren't "against god". We just don't see any reason to believe something exists that there is no proof for.

[Thumbelina]

It's nice that you can look for happiness in this sad world but technically an atheist worldview offers no hope to folk who don't have relatively peaceful lives.

 

Perhaps not. That's why I don't evangelize atheism to other people. You believe whatever you want. I don't disturb Christian websites or churches. I leave you all alone to live your blissful ignorant lives. It's okay with me that you need imaginary friends and endless lives after death to make sense of life. But I don't need it. If you need it, then have at it. Don't assume that I need it because you do.

 

 

Yes, I realize you're not like those fundametalist atheist evangelicals out there who are monumentally ignorant of the bible and are ever MISQUOTING it. I know secular people who do not care about God or the bible and they don't go about knocking it, they simply do not care. The believer leaves them alone but if an atheist does not want God and therefore CHOOSES not to believe in Him they should at least learn how the bible is to be studied instead of spewing tripe. If not, they should follow the regular secularists and eat, drink and be merry and leave the bible alone cuz the bible is NOT for unbelievers, it's for sons and potential sons!

 

Christains can have the best of both worlds as it were. God wants us to enjoy this life too -->

 

I'm enjoy this life more now. And calmer and more accepting to our situation and the impossibility to change it. Hoping that God somehow has a plan made our live miserable and frustrating. Knowing that there's no superpower enforcing some grand plan made life easier.

 

No, according to the bible you are dead while you're living. I realize some people were taught shame based religion; the bible does NOT teach that! My God is rooting for me and He helps me along. I can tell Him EVERYTHING.

 

 

 

Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul. 3 John 1:2

 

 

Sure.

 

Prayer is the easiest cop-out to do any actual work. But that's a discussion for another topic.

 

 

 

Look at the sentiments, Mr always looking to demonize God and His Word!

 

Happinesst may not always be possible, but that's when He gives the peace that passes understanding and He gives joy.

 

 

 

I found joy without religion as well.

 

The world does not give the peace that God gives.

 

 

You do understand the difference between flipping God the bird, and saying that one has zero reason to believe it even exists, right? Doesn't seem like you do. We aren't "against god". We just don't see any reason to believe something exists that there is no proof for.

 

I'm just saying what the bible says and what I personally experienced, God is there. Many of you have a wrong view of God and you are aversed to Him. If given a chance the bible does give evidence that God knows the future and He loves us. A lot of people are not willing to diligently search God's Word or they are taught confusing things about Him.

[mcdaddy]

No, according to the bible you are dead while you're living. I realize some people were taught shame based religion; the bible does NOT teach that! My God is rooting for me and He helps me along. I can tell Him EVERYTHING.

According to ME, I'm alive when I'm living.

 

Right now, what you did above there, is one of those evangelizing things I hate about Christianity. The inability to accept other people's views and beliefs.

 

Look at the sentiments, Mr always looking to demonize God and His Word!

Seeing reality is not demonizing.

 

The world does not give the peace that God gives.

I've had both. I am at a better position to judge that about myself than you or your old book. You believe what you believe. I know what I know. I am what I am. Your belief does not influence my life, and doesn't become true because you believe so.

 

 

Ah, some folks are eventually gonna thank us Christians for nagging them Christians have a transcendent moral absolute that they get instructions from.; alas, we don't follow His instructions as closely as we should. We aren't to force others to believe as we do but we ought to preach to whomever hath an ear. We both agree about freedom of choice, right?

 

 

The same transcendent moral absolute that is the sadistic barbaric bloodthirsty deity of that Canaanite subpopulation called the Israelites? I'm too good a person to stone my unruly kids or force my daughter to marry her rapist or kill someone for working on Saturdays.

[Thumbelina]

No, according to the bible you are dead while you're living. I realize some people were taught shame based religion; the bible does NOT teach that! My God is rooting for me and He helps me along. I can tell Him EVERYTHING.

According to ME, I'm alive when I'm living.

 

Right now, what you did above there, is one of those evangelizing things I hate about Christianity. The inability to accept other people's views and beliefs.

 

Look at the sentiments, Mr always looking to demonize God and His Word!

Seeing reality is not demonizing.

 

The world does not give the peace that God gives.

I've had both. I am at a better position to judge that about myself than you or your old book. You believe what you believe. I know what I know. I am what I am. Your belief does not influence my life, and doesn't become true because you believe so.

 

 

Ah, some folks are eventually gonna thank us Christians for nagging them Christians have a transcendent moral absolute that they get instructions from.; alas, we don't follow His instructions as closely as we should. We aren't to force others to believe as we do but we ought to preach to whomever hath an ear. We both agree about freedom of choice, right?

 

 

The same transcendent moral absolute that is the sadistic barbaric bloodthirsty deity of that Canaanite subpopulation called the Israelites? I'm too good a person to stone my unruly kids or force my daughter to marry her rapist or kill someone for working on Saturdays.

 

Hey Mr. unstable and unlearned, you're wresting the scriptures to your own detriment. Pay no mind to that SAB ws.

[mcdaddy]

If by wresting you mean pointing out how horrid it is, then I guess I'm wresting. Tell me how those things are good in any possible context.

[mcdaddy]

And by the way, Peter didn't write 2 Peter. Or first Peter. Even the bible says he was illiterate. Peter is a character in a work of historic fiction.

[Thumbelina]

If by wresting you mean pointing out how horrid it is, then I guess I'm wresting. Tell me how those things are good in any possible context.

 

 

I have tried explaining those texts to skeptics but it was of no avail. Skeptics have this idea in their heads that humans are basically good; they cannot conceptualize exactly how Holy God is and how selfish we are. God cannot tolerate sin and rebellion. This life is to prepare us for eternity. In the OT Messiah had to be born in order to redeem the world and Satan and his agents wanted to prevent that. God had to curb some of the evil and those rules were applied during the theocracy.

[Thumbelina]

And by the way, Peter didn't write 2 Peter. Or first Peter. Even the bible says he was illiterate. Peter is a character in a work of historic fiction.

 

You sound like MM *shakes head*