My Personal Relationship With Absurdity

[Denyoz]

Hi, I'm an ex-christian and here is a snapshot of my journey:

 

I'm a French-Canadian guy, 48 years old, married with 4 kids.

 

I was born into the Catholic faith, my parents were devout church goers and believed in a loving God. When I was about 13, I started being active in the church, helping out in the youth group, in the choir and sometimes reading scriptures during mass. Religion was an important part of my life, but the emphasis was on being a good person, nothing scary like hell and stuff. For me, the youth group was a place to meet my cousins and make new friends, it was completely voluntary. Our purpose was to participate actively in church and organize religious social activities.

 

Catholicism was not about reading the Bible, it was about being obedient to the church which is run by priests, nuns, bishops, under the supervision of the Pope. Jesus was basically just an historical role model, with no real presence. The Virgin Mary, on the other hand, was more visible because she appeared every once in a while to tell you to pray and recite the rosary. The religion was centered around mass, statues, saints, sacraments, the sign of the cross, kneeling, being good, sacrifices, suffering, learning prayers by heart, and avoiding anything sexual. I didn't even know that God had a Word.

 

It's not until my late teenage years that I started hearing about the heavy fundamentalist televangelist teaching from the US. I remember my father watching Jimmy Swaggart on TV and buying his books. I thought Jimmy was interesting because he was so emotional about Jesus, you could just feel the love he had for God by watching him. Unlike the catholic priests who would preach with no emotions whatsoever, this guy was alive. Filled with... the holy ghost. For a Catholic, it was quite a revelation to watch and listen to him. I think that's when I realized that God had a Word and that he was actually talking to people today, through the Bible.

 

The only thing resembling this where I lived was the Charismatic Movement. I wanted to know what Jimmy Swaggart was so excited about. I knew that the Holy Spirit had something to do with it and my dad kept saying that the most important thing in life was to have a personal relationship with God. This meant that it was possible to communicate with God on a personal level. I could just imagine being able to ask God questions and then hear him answer. I was totally interested, although I had doubts.

 

When I turned 19 I decided to spend the whole summer at a Catholic Charismatic School of Faith in Quebec. It was called the Paul VI Center. The place had been built by the most popular French-Canadian Charismatic Leader in Canada, under the direct supervision of the Holy Spirit. It was a building with 80 bedrooms, conference room, cafeteria, etc. Summer sessions lasted 6-weeks long. Once accepted, you attended all the teachings, slept there, ate there, no TV, no PC, no radio, very limited access to the outside world, it was all about meeting Jesus personally. I was curious and decided to go there, but I had no idea what was about to happen to me.

 

When I got there, I was completely overwhelmed by the spirit of love that was in that place. Oh my god! I had never seen anything like this! Today we have the Internet, YouTube, and all this Charismatic/Pentecostal stuff is on video for everyone to see, but back then in 1982, those things were going on behind closed doors and the only way to see it was to go right in and experience it for yourself. So for the next 6 weeks, I was right in the action, along with 80 or so other young adults, experiencing first hand everything the Holy Spirit had to offer: being slain in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, the gift of prophecy, faith, healing, reading the Bible, accepting Jesus as a personal saviour, giving your life to God, miracles, sins being forgiven, demons being cast out, crying, laughing, singing in ecstasy with hands in the air, going out to public parks and prisons to preach the gospel, everything. This experience completely changed my perception of myself, the world, and God. When I got out of there, I was transformed. I was a Child of God, filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

The thing that touched me the most deeply was being slain in the spirit. Besides being head over heels in love with God, Jesus and the Bible, I had the ability to rest in the Spirit at will. All I had to do was lie down in a quiet place, close my eyes, abandon myself to the love of God while speaking in tongues, and then I would gently fall into an altered state of consciousness, where I would feel the presence of God in a way that is difficult to describe, often accompanied by visions and emotional euphoria. This could last from 20 minutes to several hours. When I would "wake up", I would feel completely rejuvenated, alive, happy, loving, with an expanded mental and spiritual awareness. The feeling of well-being could last from several hours to several days, depending on the circumstances of the day. I didn't know there was a term for this, but I did a Google search recently and found on Wikipedia that it is called "religious ecstasy".

 

This was what I called my personal relationship with God. It was God's way of telling me how much he loved me. The experience of resting in the spirit was so wonderful, I would do it every day, sometimes twice a day. It was like a drug. I had found heaven. At that time I started writing everything that was happening to me in a journal, including words of wisdom, what I thought God was saying to me. I knew He had a purpose for me, a mission: something special he wanted me to do.

 

The feeling of euphoria can be compared to being in love. I was deeply in love with God and I acted like I was in love when I was in that state. I shared my experience with anyone who cared to hear about it, but to my surprise and disappointment, no one could relate to it. They would say: "Wow, you are so lucky, I wish God would do the same for me." Then I told them how I did it, but they would try and they wouldn't have the same experience. I knew it was a gift from God but didn't know why God was not bestowing this gift onto others, no matter how much I talked about it. Eventually I stopped talking about it because it would make people feel inferior, jealous and sad. I told them about the Paul VI Center, and that if they wanted to experience the same thing, that maybe they should go there.

 

The next summer, I went back for another 6-week session, this time with my brother, three of my cousins and a friend. I couldn't wait to see the Holy Spirit touch their lives. The weeks went by and nothing happened. The teachers were not the same as the year before. The teachings were different too, not centered around the gifts of the Spirit. The session ended and not one of them had experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was quite disappointed. Oh well, that's life, I thought. Speaking of life, what was I supposed to do with mine now? I had no control over what God did. I couldn't force people into receiving Him, no matter what I did and not matter how much I prayed. Being spiritual and such a nice person was somewhat of a problem too, because people would fall in love with me, and I wanted them to fall in love with God.

 

After this second session at the Paul VI Center, I didn't really want to go back into the world because I knew that God had a mission for me and I had to find out what it was. So I decided to stay for the 10-month session which ran from September to June. This was an ultra-intense session. People came out of there with some kind of ministry. I just had to do it and find out what my ministry was.

 

The Center was supervised by a 60-year-old charismatic nun named Jacqueline. Sister Jacky ran the Center like the Army. There were strict rules to follow and all activities were organized in a schedule. There was not much personal freedom. When it was time to pray, you prayed; when it was time to eat, you ate; when it was time to sleep, you slept. Our purpose was to do the Will of God, and Sister Jacky made sure we understood what that will was.

 

I wanted to do God's will more than anything, but after 2 or 3 months in that Center, I realized that I was not exactly following Jesus, I was following Sister Jacky. I had a problem with her authority because I was spending a lot of time reading the Bible and sometimes it was clear to me that the teachings we were receiving were not always in line with the Word of God. For Catholics, the Word of God is not only the Bible. Church tradition and doctrine is also the Word of God. So there were some contradictions I had to deal with, because I was more of a Bible reader than the others. As time went by, it got more and more difficult for me to obey the rules. Finally, after long prayer sessions and discussions with the people in charge, I was told that it was the will of God that I should leave this place. I was happy to leave, but where was I to go? I felt like Abraham to whom God said: "Go to a place that I will show you."

 

I left the Center at Christmas time and went to my parents' place for the holidays. While I was there, I received an invitation from my cousin who had joined a "religious community". I felt this was a call from God, so I accepted and went there. It was great at the beginning, but after a while, the same problem arose once again. All the members were lead by the Holy Spirit, but when it came to doing God's will, there was not always agreement. No matter how much we prayed and meditated, when it came to making important decisions, it was never clear what God's will was. I think I was there 3 months, then I was kicked out because I was not catholic enough, I was too much evangelical according to them. So I left. But soon after, everybody left also because no one could agree on what God's will was.

 

After that I decided to go into the real world, find a job and follow Jesus without being subject to any religious authority. To me, doing God's will was about love, my motto was: "Love, and do whatever you want." I was a very liberal christian, I could feel God's love whenever I meditated. I didn't think I had to join any church, although I did try to join different churches, but it was always the same problem. God's will was not clear, everyone seemed to have his own version of what the will of God was, so any religious group would almost always end in conflict. The only church that seemed to stand strong was the Catholic Church, and we all know that this church is probably the most morally corrupt of all, so I continued attending mass but not regularly.

 

I moved to the city, rented an apartment and was hired to work for the government. I spent most of my free time praying, writing to God and asking him to show me what to do. At the age of 24, I concluded that His will was to find a Christian girl and get married, and learn about love by loving her. I dated many girls and finally I found the one that was right for me. Convinced that I was doing God's will, I married her at the age of 25. That's when my descent into hell started.

 

My wife's version of Christianity was more materialistic than I ever could have imagined. I was all spiritual, loving and willing to do anything to make her happy. She was all damaged psychologically and willing to do anything to control me, so it was a very bad combination. Still, I toughed it out, by the grace of God, and we had two kids. Our marriage lasted 8 years, but I was not happy with her. During all this time I pleaded God to help me and to show me what to do, what to say. Do I stay with her one more day, can I divorce her? No matter how much I meditated, God would not answer me. After 8 years of pure hell I started hating her so much I wanted to kill her. That's when I decided I should leave. So I left her. The year after, we were officially divorced with joint custody of our two young ones.

 

So there I was, 33 years old and nothing to show for except an ex-wife who hated me, two kids to raise and a God who didn't want to talk to me, or show me what to do or protect me from evil. Financially, I was ruined. That's when I really started to question God and his motives. What was the purpose of all this? Was it all my fault? All I wanted was to love my wife and learn how to love more. Why did this happen? What lesson did I learn? Why didn't God give me some kind of vision or sign before I got myself into this? What's the use having a personal relationship with God if He won't guide you? What was I supposed to do now? One thing was for sure, I would never get married again (and so I thought). I was more determined than ever to find out what God's will was. I knew how important communication was in a relationship. If I was to have a real, good, effective relationship with God, I had to learn how to communicate better with him. I had to learn how to hear him clearly. I insist on the word "clearly". I had to find a way to hear God's voice CLEARLY. No more guessing games.

 

I started reading everything I could find on the subject. I read "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsch. I read the "True Life in God" series by Vassula Ryden. I read many other books and most of all, I practised writing God's words clearly. I wrote everything I thought was clear messages from God. More than anything else, I wanted to dialogue with God in a very simple and loving way with written words. I was determined to succeed, this was the most important thing in my life. And then, something very unusual happened: I met my soul mate, my Twin Soul.

 

I didn't even believe there was such a thing as a Twin Soul, but there she was. She could understand me like no one else did. She would listen to me like I thought only God could. She would talk to me like I thought only God could. She loved me like I thought only God could. In her presence, I felt exactly like I did when I received the baptism in the Holy Spirit. I felt ecstatic. When I kissed her it was euphoric, I would experience rushes of pleasure that were so intense, it was almost like an out-of-body experience. I remembered I had seen this women in my dreams when I was a child. She was the person God had made to show me how much he loved me. I had found what it was to communicate clearly with another being. The relationship I so long dreamed of having with God, I had with her. It was incredible. I had to marry her, no question about it, I felt we were already married: she was my Twin Soul.

 

This woman had a gift, I don't know what it was, but each time we would go to the casino together, she would win! It was miraculous. Sometimes we would win $20, sometimes $100, sometimes $500, sometimes thousands. Our biggest win was on our wedding day. It was awesome. So going to the local casino was our favourite outing. Most of the time, after a big win, we would go back the next day and spend it all, but nevertheless, we ended up winning again. This went on for months.

 

Then one day I found her credit card statements. She was $17,000 in debt. She was crying and unable to pay back the monthly minimum amount. She had been lying to me all this time about our casino winnings. She would put money in slot machines from her credit card until hitting the jackpot, but by that time, she had put more in the machine than it ended up paying out. When I would ask her how much she put into the machine, she would say "Oh, just $20" when in fact she had put $600. She kept on lying to me month after month, letting me believe that she had this gift from God of being able to beat the odds and win repeatedly. I was devastated. How could she lie to me like this continuously. How can my Twin Soul lie to me? How could she sleep at night? How was this possible?

 

My whole Twin Soul belief came crashing down. My faith in a loving God came crashing down. My belief in human trust came crashing down. This was the year the Twin Towers came crashing down. Those two towers were the symbol of our Twin Souls. We even went to New York to see them "in person" the year before the tragic events. 9/11 2001 was so relevant to me, it was so symbolic, and all the government bullshit that followed was also so relevant of the bullshit that exists in the spiritual world: God, faith, honesty, love. It's just crap, all crap, I thought: a big deception to fool you, to make people who are more intelligent than you take advantage of you. I was so disappointed.

 

What was I supposed to do now? Who had to pay back the credit card debt? Who had to live with a dishonest wife? This event was accompanied by another shocking event: at work, everyone got a promotion except me. Then a business venture I had invested in with my brother went bad, my brother didn't fulfil his part of the contract and I lost thousands of dollars in property damage. There is just so much bullshit a guy can take: I fell into a severe depression and ended up in a psychiatric hospital. The doctor had to prescribe the highest dosage of antidepressants allowed by law. I lost my job and my interest in life.

 

I was sent home, heavily medicated, regularly having to meet with my psychiatrist. Unable to think properly, dizzy most of time, negative, I had lost interest in almost everything. Nothing mattered to me anymore. I decided to stay with my "twin soul" wife and forgive her. The major depressive disorder lasted six years.

 

I am OK now, I think. I have come to terms with my life and my past. I don't take any medication any more. I have found reasons to live. I can laugh again, but I have to learn to live without faith. I don't know where to start. I don't believe in Bible-God. I'm not sure what love is all about, and what's the purpose of life. Probably just to enjoy it and have fun while it lasts. Have babies. Follow your instincts like animals, trust in life and don't worry about anything. Death is natural. If there's an after-life then we'll see when we get there.

 

Now I know that when someone says he has a personal relationship with God he is lying or suffering from delusion. It's impossible to have a real relationship with God without clear communication, and there is no such thing as clear communication with God, if there was, the world would not be what it is today. A dog communicates more clearly than God does. So either God exists and cannot (will not) communicate, or he simply does not exist. Either way, the result is the same.

 

Now I know what causes the ecstasy when you're in love with God or with a human, it's a hormone called dopamine. The body releases it at the right moment. It has the same effect as taking cocaine. It's purpose is to make you want to be closer to that person, so that eventually you will have sex and reproduce. Survival of the species, that's all. It's not the Holy Spirit. I think many Pentecostal leaders have been duped by this hormone. They should teach about this in school. I think it's important. They teach us so many useless things and withhold information about the important stuff. It's all about controlling society. So much bullshit going on, it's unbelievable.

 

I think Christianity is a big lie to make people submissive and ignorant. It's toxic and it's everywhere. It can also be proven that it was fabricated. Ex-Christians have to speak out. Our testimonies are important. We always hear about how much God loves us, but hardly anything about how much damage it can do to believe in a loving God.

 

There is more I need to write about, this is just the beginning but it's good therapy. I think joining this site is a step in the right direction. At home I'm surrounded by Christians like most of you probably. When I talk about this, they will always say that it is my fault, that God cannot do anything wrong. God is always right and humans are always sinning. I have heard it all. Hopefully I will meet intelligent people here who can relate to what I'm saying and what I had to go through to learn the truth.

 

The story of Adam and Eve makes a little more sense now. The Creator of the universe tells Adam he can eat from any tree in the garden, including the Tree of Life, but not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Our knowledge of good and evil comes from the Bible, the church, Christianity, religion, and from our own insecure and guilty consciences. Our Creator tells us right at the beginning not to touch that tree. He says to eat from the tree of life! In other words: “Enjoy life and don't worry about good and evil, you'll be OK.” The rest of the Bible is the story of what happens to those who choose to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They have to go through all this redemption absurdity to end up at the same place they were in the beginning.

 

So this is it then: Welcome to the Garden of Eden!

[freeasabird]

Thank you for sharing your story. I see a lot of parralels between our stories, the lure of the charismatics, god's poor communication skills, god not actually 'working' in people's lives, it goes on. Glad you found us, welcome to Ex-C!

[blackpudd1n]

Hey Denyoz,

 

Welcome to Ex-C

 

You really have been on quite a journey to get to this point.

 

When I lost my faith and joined Ex-C, as I learned I found something I wasn't expecting: freedom. Freedom from the guilt, the fear of hell, and just fear in general. I have my own struggles still, but I hope that you will find the same thing I have: that life does get better once we leave the religious baggage behind.

 

And I had to laugh at what you said about a dog communicating better than god; I said the same thing only last night about my cat lol.

 

Hope to see you around the forum, it's good to have you here.

 

Love, Pudd

[mymistake]

Welcome to ex-C and thanks for sharing your story. Heh, Jimmy Swaggart led me to Jesus. I enjoyed that part of your story.

[Positivist]

Hello Denyoz and welcome to Ex-C, from a fellow Canadian! Knowing you are French Canadian I 'heard' your lovely accent as I read your story.

 

Thank you for sharing your powerful and moving story. It always makes me sad that so many of us are let down by charismania. I too had some pretty big shocks and let downs. When I read your story, I kept thinking, "Wow, if anyone's tried to know God, it's Denyoz!" What do you do when you do everything right and still, God doesn't come through?

 

I too am interested in the role of neurotransmitters in feelings of spirituality. I think it's a perfect explanation for our so-called "relationship" with God. We have this buzz and we slap the label "God" on it.

 

I'm glad you are stabilizing after the tumultuous events of your life. You've walked a hard road, and I hope that good things continue to come your way.

[Llwellyn]

"Calisse de crisse de tabarnak d'ostie de ciboire de testament!"

 

I love French Canadians and grew up with a good number of them in a francophone African city. The Canadian embassy tends to send les Quebecois to represent the nation in French speaking countries. It is fascinating to think about how and why French Canadians use religious language as curse words. I think it is probably best explained by the deep religious anxiety that Catholics in Quebec once lived with -- anxiety that is only dissipated by being intentionally blasphemous. It is a way of stabbing back at a religion that once stabbed at them. Most French-Canadians I knew were Ex-Christians. The way it appeared to me, the culture is an ex-christian culture.

[Deva]

Welcome Denyoz. Your story was interesting to read. I am glad you are doing well now.

[ConureDelSol]

 

The story of Adam and Eve makes a little more sense now. The Creator of the universe tells Adam he can eat from any tree in the garden, including the Tree of Life, but not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Our knowledge of good and evil comes from the Bible, the church, Christianity, religion, and from our own insecure and guilty consciences. Our Creator tells us right at the beginning not to touch that tree. He says to eat from the tree of life! In other words: “Enjoy life and don't worry about good and evil, you'll be OK.” The rest of the Bible is the story of what happens to those who choose to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They have to go through all this redemption absurdity to end up at the same place they were in the beginning.

 

So this is it then: Welcome to the Garden of Eden!

 

I really love this part. That's probably the most true statement of that story I've ever heard. It's a great philosophy to live by in some ways.

 

I often dream of living in Quebec and learning French so I can work there. I feel like it's the closest thing to going to Europe without being in Europe. America can get kind of horrible after awhile.

[Zephie]

Welcome to Ex-C!

[♦ ficino ♦]

Wow, Denyoz, you have had a deep row to hoe. Thank you for posting, and welcome. As a former charismatic and Catholic (not both at the same time, though!) I salute you. I also like your comment about a dog communicating better than God. Like Blackpudd1n's cat, mine too does this better than God.

 

See you around on here.

[♦ ficino ♦]

"Calisse de crisse de tabarnak d'ostie de ciboire de testament!"

 

It is fascinating to think about how and why French Canadians use religious language as curse words. I think it is probably best explained by the deep religious anxiety that Catholics in Quebec once lived with -- anxiety that is only dissipated by being intentionally blasphemous. It is a way of stabbing back at a religion that once stabbed at them.

 

I once read that for curse words, Catholics tend to blaspheme/use religious words, Protestants tend to use curse words about bodily functions, and Africans tend to insult someone's mother. Don't know how valid these generalizations are.

[Denyoz]

Thank you for sharing your story. I see a lot of parralels between our stories, the lure of the charismatics, god's poor communication skills, god not actually 'working' in people's lives, it goes on. Glad you found us, welcome to Ex-C!

 

Thank you freeasabird, I like your name, it's very inspiring. I read your Ex-timony last night after I finished posting mine. I love your intelligent approach to the Bible, I wish I had that when I started reading it years ago, it would have saved me a lot of trouble. I wanted to reply but it was getting really late.

 

And I had to laugh at what you said about a dog communicating better than god; I said the same thing only last night about my cat lol.

 

I have a black cat also. She's my panther, she rules, and she has taught me that it's ok to do sweet nothing.

 

Welcome to ex-C and thanks for sharing your story. Heh, Jimmy Swaggart led me to Jesus. I enjoyed that part of your story.

 

Hey mymistake, I'm glad to know someone else who's heard of Jimmy Swaggart.

 

When I read your story, I kept thinking, "Wow, if anyone's tried to know God, it's Denyoz!"

 

Thank you Positivist for you kind reply. It's difficult to understand how a grown man can have such a naïve faith in god. I'm ashamed of myself when I re-read my story: how high I went and then how low I fell. Most Christians I know are kind of lukewarm and never experience the euphoria of being born again, and the agony of losing faith. I'm really quite an oddball. At one point I thought maybe I was bipolar but after some testing my psychiatrist said I was not.

 

"Calisse de crisse de tabarnak d'ostie de ciboire de testament!"

 

I love French Canadians and grew up with a good number of them in a francophone African city. The Canadian embassy tends to send les Quebecois to represent the nation in French speaking countries. It is fascinating to think about how and why French Canadians use religious language as curse words. I think it is probably best explained by the deep religious anxiety that Catholics in Quebec once lived with -- anxiety that is only dissipated by being intentionally blasphemous. It is a way of stabbing back at a religion that once stabbed at them. Most French-Canadians I knew were Ex-Christians. The way it appeared to me, the culture is an ex-christian culture.

 

LOL, your perception is quite interesting Llwellyn. I had never realized that Quebec society was ex-christian in culture, but now that you mention it, I think you're right. Blasphemy is built into our language. Nobody admits being a Christian here, it's just too weird. So I guess I'm lucky to live here in a way, I should feel right at home, but I don't. It's already bizarre enough to be a born-again christian in Quebec, if you're an ex-born-again christian it's even weirder. C'est vraiment fucké tabarnak!

 

Welcome Denyoz. Your story was interesting to read. I am glad you are doing well now.

 

Thank you Deva.

 

I really love this part. That's probably the most true statement of that story I've ever heard. It's a great philosophy to live by in some ways.

 

Thanks ConureDelSol. I'm glad you appreciate my little insight into the Adam and Eve story. It's only a few weeks ago that I realized that the Bible was actually quoting God the Creator as saying that the worse thing that can happen to us is having the knowledge of good and evil. I don't think many people realize what this means. Not to know what evil is? Not to know what good is? Not to know the difference between the two? Is this really what we were created for? Wow! Now that's freedom!

[2Honest]

Wow, what a story! Thanks so much for sharing this with us. I'm glad you found the forum. I could relate to so much of what you wrote. I had a similar relationship with God...I experienced the euphoria and the intimacy with him that you described. I also came to a point where I needed more, I needed clear communication and to have actual TANGIBLE results. I needed God to be all that the Bible said and all that I felt he stood for. In my mind he was all-loving, but when I was in pain he never intervened. It drove me nearly to madness.

 

Here are links to my first two posts on the forum. These were journal entries I wrote when I was right in the middle of all of my doubt and frustration. If nothing else maybe it will help you see that you are definitely not alone in what you've been through. You're obviously a very strong person to have survived all of this. Keep writing - it really does help. I think you should seriously consider writing a book. You are a gifted writer and have a unique and fascinating story to tell that could help many people.

 

 

Part 1

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/48792-coming-clean-the-beginning-of-the-end/page__hl__%2Bcoming+%2Bclean__fromsearch__1

 

Part 2

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/48812-coming-clean-part-2/page__hl__%2Bcoming+%2Bclean__fromsearch__1

[Margee]

When I got there, I was completely overwhelmed by the spirit of love that was in that place. Oh my god! I had never seen anything like this! Today we have the Internet, YouTube, and all this Charismatic/Pentecostal stuff is on video for everyone to see, but back then in 1982, those things were going on behind closed doors and the only way to see it was to go right in and experience it for yourself. So for the next 6 weeks, I was right in the action, along with 80 or so other young adults, experiencing first hand everything the Holy Spirit had to offer: being slain in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, the gift of prophecy, faith, healing, reading the Bible, accepting Jesus as a personal saviour, giving your life to God, miracles, sins being forgiven, demons being cast out, crying, laughing, singing in ecstasy with hands in the air, going out to public parks and prisons to preach the gospel, everything. This experience completely changed my perception of myself, the world, and God. When I got out of there, I was transformed. I was a Child of God, filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

Wikipedia that it is called "religious ecstasy".

 

The feeling of euphoria can be compared to being in love.

 

I was ruined. That's when I really started to question God and his motives. What was the purpose of all this? Was it all my fault? All I wanted was to love my wife and learn how to love more. Why did this happen? What lesson did I learn? Why didn't God give me some kind of vision or sign before I got myself into this? What's the use having a personal relationship with God if He won't guide you? What was I supposed to do now?

 

I started reading everything I could find on the subject. I read "Conversations with God" by Neale Donald Walsch.

 

My faith in a loving God came crashing down. My belief in human trust came crashing down. I have come to terms with my life and my past.

 

I have found reasons to live. I can laugh again, but I have to learn to live without faith. I don't know where to start. I don't believe in Bible-God. I'm not sure what love is all about, and what's the purpose of life. Probably just to enjoy it and have fun while it lasts.Follow your instincts like animals, trust in life and don't worry about anything. Death is natural. If there's an after-life then we'll see when we get there.

 

Now I know what causes the ecstasy when you're in love with God or with a human, it's a hormone called dopamine.

 

Bonjour le collègue Canadien ! C'est si bon avoir vous entend à EX-C ! Je suis de l'Est ! Le connard de Canada ! ! LoL

 

Denyoz, thank you for sharing that story. I really enjoyed reading it! I related to your whole story on so many levels. Getting sucked in by the whole 'emotional' high of the holy spirit, etc........my choice of drug at the time! Love those dopamine highs!

 

Ya know, it's so funny - I look back over my life and it was so insane that I can't even imagine that I looked anything like a christian. Life would straighten up for awhile and then 'god' would always throw a curve ball my way.(I thought) I got myself into so many messes as a christian.....it all looks so funny to me now, but the pain back then was incredible. Always trying to figure out why 'god' would allow me to get into all these situations!! I spent my whole christian life at the alter, begging god to make me different and asking his forgiveness!! I might as well been serving satan the whole time!! I said the sinners prayer so many times.............

 

I've had a few things in life happen to me that destroyed my trust in people. I continue to 'heal' from this even to this day.

EX-c has been the biggest part of my healing in the last year and I am just so happy you decided to join us!

 

I am really looking forward to more of your stories. We really do have a great bunch of people here! Somebody is always there 24 hours to help with any questions or concerns.

P.s.You really are a gifted writer!

 

Again, welcome!

[midniterider]

Enjoy a healthy sense of skepticism, Denyoz. Welcome to Exc.

[Denyoz]

Wow, what a story! Thanks so much for sharing this with us. I'm glad you found the forum. I could relate to so much of what you wrote. I had a similar relationship with God...I experienced the euphoria and the intimacy with him that you described. I also came to a point where I needed more, I needed clear communication and to have actual TANGIBLE results. I needed God to be all that the Bible said and all that I felt he stood for. In my mind he was all-loving, but when I was in pain he never intervened. It drove me nearly to madness.

 

Here are links to my first two posts on the forum. These were journal entries I wrote when I was right in the middle of all of my doubt and frustration. If nothing else maybe it will help you see that you are definitely not alone in what you've been through. You're obviously a very strong person to have survived all of this. Keep writing - it really does help. I think you should seriously consider writing a book. You are a gifted writer and have a unique and fascinating story to tell that could help many people.

 

Thank you very much for the encouragement, I really appreciate it. You think I should consider writing a book? Do people still read books? Hmm, that's what I wanted to do when I started my personal journal, I thought: one day I am going to write about how wonderful God is. Every entry in the journal was to serve as proof that God existed and that he loved us. Turns out that the story of my life proves the exact opposite. But yeah, I want to do something constructive with the rest of my life. I'm not sure what it's going to be but whatever it is, I want it to be fun, I've suffered enough. It's party time!

[Denyoz]

Denyoz, thank you for sharing that story. I really enjoyed reading it! I related to your whole story on so many levels. Getting sucked in by the whole 'emotional' high of the holy spirit, etc........my choice of drug at the time! Love those dopamine highs!

 

Thank you Margee. Eastern Canada eh, so should I withhold the Newfie jokes? lol

 

Yes, sucked in by the emotional high of the holy spirit, you said it. "God is with me, I can FEEL it!" Oh really, God can be felt? We know so little about our own anatomy and psyche. How much free will do we really have is really hard to say. Conversion, deconversion, falling in love, falling out of love, we don't have much control over anything. Sometimes you try to do good and it only does more damage, sometimes you hurt someone and it actually helps him. So I came to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter what you do. My idols are not gods, not even humans, I think animals are our best role models

 

woof woof meow

[jdog]

I really enjoyed reading your story.

[2Honest]

Hmm, that's what I wanted to do when I started my personal journal, I thought: one day I am going to write about how wonderful God is. Every entry in the journal was to serve as proof that God existed and that he loved us. Turns out that the story of my life proves the exact opposite.

 

Same here! Now here I am I'm thinking of writing one about my deconversion experience. Amazing how things can change!

 

But yeah, I want to do something constructive with the rest of my life. I'm not sure what it's going to be but whatever it is, I want it to be fun, I've suffered enough. It's party time!

 

Yep! Time to part-ay!

[Akheia]

What an amazing journey you've had. Really, thank you for sharing this story with us. I'm so glad you're out of that bondage and into true freedom.

[Denyoz]

What an amazing journey you've had. Really, thank you for sharing this story with us. I'm so glad you're out of that bondage and into true freedom.

 

"true freedom" ... uhh-hum, yeah, well, I might be free from the bondage of gawd's "love" but I sure don't feel free from the decisions I made while I was hormone rushing. This I have to live with for the rest of my life. I still get very depressed when I think of all the time I have wasted investing in my relationship with sweet fuck all. The damage it has caused me is both mental and physical and some of it is unrepairable. My hope is that I can use this pile of shit to create something that can be useful to humanity. OMG listen to me, I still think I have some kind of mission or purpose in life. There is no purpose, the proof is right in front of my face.

 

Ok rewind. Replay:

 

My hope is that I can use this pile of shit to create fun-cool-stuff. Yay, that's more like it.

 

Thank you Akheia.

[Akheia]

Oh sweetie. You can still have purpose in life. You can still have a mission. It's just not determined by a Bronze age storm god.

 

By the time you get to the age you and I are at, there's going to be some dents in the ol' armor. Some of those dents can be beaten out of it, and some are there to stay. And that's okay. I promise if you keep working toward spiritual peace, you will find it. I found it by pursuing Zen Buddhism, but we all have our different paths to peace.

[♦ ficino ♦]

What an amazing journey you've had. Really, thank you for sharing this story with us. I'm so glad you're out of that bondage and into true freedom.

 

"true freedom" ... uhh-hum, yeah, well, I might be free from the bondage of gawd's "love" but I sure don't feel free from the decisions I made while I was hormone rushing. This I have to live with for the rest of my life. I still get very depressed when I think of all the time I have wasted investing in my relationship with sweet fuck all. The damage it has caused me is both mental and physical and some of it is unrepairable. My hope is that I can use this pile of shit to create something that can be useful to humanity. OMG listen to me, I still think I have some kind of mission or purpose in life. There is no purpose, the proof is right in front of my face.

 

Ok rewind. Replay:

 

My hope is that I can use this pile of shit to create fun-cool-stuff. Yay, that's more like it.

 

Thank you Akheia.

 

Hi Denyoz, again, glad you've joined us on here. Maybe you can convert the shit to manure and fertilize some good fruit as time passes. as for purpose in life, I hear ya. When I was crushed when I found out my lover of 24 years was having an affair and wasn't willing to give it up, I had to go back just to this, which you might appreciate, since it's in French: le pourquoi de chacque etre est etre. (Sorry I can't type accents here!) It's a quote from the movie Mon Oncle d'Amerique, said by a biologist near the end of the movie.

 

Time really does heal a lot of things. I think that's why Time (the god Chronos) was represented, not as an old man with a scythe, but as a beautiful youth in a late Roman carving on the island of Torcello.

 

Best, Ficino

[Denyoz]

Hi Denyoz, again, glad you've joined us on here. Maybe you can convert the shit to manure and fertilize some good fruit as time passes. as for purpose in life, I hear ya. When I was crushed when I found out my lover of 24 years was having an affair and wasn't willing to give it up, I had to go back just to this, which you might appreciate, since it's in French: le pourquoi de chacque etre est etre. (Sorry I can't type accents here!) It's a quote from the movie Mon Oncle d'Amerique, said by a biologist near the end of the movie.

 

Time really does heal a lot of things. I think that's why Time (the god Chronos) was represented, not as an old man with a scythe, but as a beautiful youth in a late Roman carving on the island of Torcello.

 

Hey ficino, thanks for the warm welcome and the encouraging words. I certainly agree with le pourquoi de chaque être est d'être. My cat has taught me this one also. We are called human beings, not human doings.

 

Sorry to hear about what your lover did to you. It's no fun at all to learn that the one we love has been lying to us. I searched for your deconversion story but haven't found it. Does it exist?

[Denyoz]

Oh sweetie. You can still have purpose in life. You can still have a mission. It's just not determined by a Bronze age storm god.

 

By the time you get to the age you and I are at, there's going to be some dents in the ol' armor. Some of those dents can be beaten out of it, and some are there to stay. And that's okay. I promise if you keep working toward spiritual peace, you will find it. I found it by pursuing Zen Buddhism, but we all have our different paths to peace.

 

I like your way of thinking Akheia, it's appeasing and refreshing. Thank you for writing to me, I feel privileged. Zen is cool