CDFree Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Christians, why do you pretend to be interested in people who show an interest in Christianity but then "dump" them when they won't subscribe exactly to what you believe, leaving them hurt and bewildered with an assurance that never again will they check out Christianity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Christians, why do you pretend to be interested in people who show an interest in Christianity but then "dump" them when they won't subscribe exactly to what you believe, leaving them hurt and bewildered with an assurance that never again will they check out Christianity? They don't know how to have real relationships. Christians have very different rules of engagement to the rest of society. Not only that, but fundamentalists are often taught to stay away from "worldly influences" that may "lead them away from god". Isolation is a big part of the brainwashing. It sucks, no doubt about it, but essentially you're not dealing with very well-adjusted people. And they don't understand that their view of the world and relationships with others is upside-down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 OP, for the same reason that multi-level marketing scammers pretend to be interested in their marks and then flit away once they realize they won't be signing up a new distributor for their downlines. You are a means to an end, a notch on their leatherette Bible cover. If you challenge them too much, they will wipe the dust off their feet and move on. This is also why so many ex-Christians report being abandoned by all of their "loving" church friends. Even if they were interested in you, though, the faith itself is pretty awful. It's not like you'd never heard of Christianity or had no other way of finding out about the faith if you happened to have been raised under a rock. All these people did to you was show you the true colors that most of us find in Christians. You dodged a bullet, in my opinion. If you were so fragile in understanding that you could have been drafted into that foul army of jesusbots by sweet words, why don't you head over to my new favorite site, http://pocm.info/ or an old favorite, http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ ? There are also tons of resources here to help you learn about the Christian faith and its serious failures. It doesn't matter how sweet and nice a few Christians are--the faith is still problematic. But it does help a lot that so many of its followers are, by and large, pretty horrible people deep down. I hope that your pain can be assuaged by realizing that you came out ahead here And welcome to the site! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDFree Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 . If you challenge them too much, they will wipe the dust off their feet and move on. That is just so so true. My experience was actually outside church - I had already given up on the social club that is church about 8 years ago. I explored online and an online friend sparked my real interest in Christianity - there was no hidden agenda to be fair to them, they wanted to discuss Christianity with seekers and I was interested. Things ticked along and I made a decision for Christ about 6 months later. My questions didn't stop though and became more challenging to my friend - at this point I noticed less and less of my challenging questions were answered to the point where I got no answers to my questions, and when I asked for help during struggles it wasn't forthcoming. That started my Christain demise really, and then when I thought what it was really all about, I realised (came to my senses) that despite being told I was an unworthy sinner, that that was a load on nonsense, and that was it really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Glad to hear it! Did you ever get answers for those questions elsewhere? I found most of mine answered at the two links I posted above, plus another site, http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/ , which delves more into the apologetics side of things than the history. There are other sites too-- http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ is a classic. If you prefer dead trees, John Loftus' Why I Became An Atheist was of signal interest to me even years after my deconversion--the man obliterates every single tenet of the Christian faith. I haven't read Dawkins, but many people find him helpful in finally freeing themselves from the guilt and fear inherent in Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumbelina Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Christians, why do you pretend to be interested in people who show an interest in Christianity but then "dump" them when they won't subscribe exactly to what you believe, leaving them hurt and bewildered with an assurance that never again will they check out Christianity? People are fickle and don't follow Christ's leading. It even happens within Christianity. I went to a new church at one time and a certain lady maybe thought 'aha, a heathen to convert!' When she realized I was already Christian she did not bother with me. I was thinking that was not very nice. If I was weak in the faith that would have discouraged me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdaddy Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Follow Christ's leading? I guess you're not talking about the verses where he called gentiles "dogs" or "pigs". Actually, he probably never said anything attributed to him since it wasnt written down until >50 years after his supposed death. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I got supremely discouraged not because I was weak in the faith, but because I learned too many actual facts. Knowing that Christians prey upon the unconverted and ignore the converted wouldn't discourage me because of my faith level, but because it'd show me that once again they were simply human--not transformed, not occupied by the Spirit, but just people like anybody else. See too many utterly normal human worshipers and soon enough you'll realize that Christianity can't possibly be true if it produces so few truly transformed lives. MLMs are a lot like Christianity, I'm now thinking. Huge payoffs are promised, huge transformations are assured, but in reality, 99.99% of people are going to be throwing good money (here, spiritual energy) after bad. Self-started businesses that actually succeed are all around us, but strangely, almost every person who gets into an MLM loses money on his. If I had $10k to sink into a business, I would be looking at one that actually had documented success and a very good shot at returning my investment. If Christianity were true, it should have a HUGE return and everybody looking objectively at it would see that it was absolutely the best investment of one's soul that could possibly be made. But I look at Christianity and I see just people, struggling like people everywhere, not people who are overwhelmingly morally superior (and sometimes dramatically morally inferior). I'm glad I got out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babylonian Dream Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 People are fickle and don't follow Christ's leading. It even happens within Christianity. I went to a new church at one time and a certain lady maybe thought 'aha, a heathen to convert!' When she realized I was already Christian she did not bother with me. I was thinking that was not very nice. If I was weak in the faith that would have discouraged me. Arrogance is something I've encountered when I was in church. They do it because it reinforces/validates their belief that they're holier than thou art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 My questions didn't stop though and became more challenging to my friend - at this point I noticed less and less of my challenging questions were answered to the point where I got no answers to my questions, and when I asked for help during struggles it wasn't forthcoming. That started my Christain demise really, and then when I thought what it was really all about, I realised (came to my senses) that despite being told I was an unworthy sinner, that that was a load on nonsense, and that was it really. This could be a good place to ask challenging questions. I would be happy to give it a shot. And you have several bitter critics of Christianity here. There is little possibility of reconversion on this board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I got supremely discouraged not because I was weak in the faith, but because I learned too many actual facts. Knowing that Christians prey upon the unconverted and ignore the converted wouldn't discourage me because of my faith level, but because it'd show me that once again they were simply human--not transformed, not occupied by the Spirit, but just people like anybody else. See too many utterly normal human worshipers and soon enough you'll realize that Christianity can't possibly be true if it produces so few truly transformed lives. MLMs are a lot like Christianity, I'm now thinking. Huge payoffs are promised, huge transformations are assured, but in reality, 99.99% of people are going to be throwing good money (here, spiritual energy) after bad. Self-started businesses that actually succeed are all around us, but strangely, almost every person who gets into an MLM loses money on his. If I had $10k to sink into a business, I would be looking at one that actually had documented success and a very good shot at returning my investment. If Christianity were true, it should have a HUGE return and everybody looking objectively at it would see that it was absolutely the best investment of one's soul that could possibly be made. But I look at Christianity and I see just people, struggling like people everywhere, not people who are overwhelmingly morally superior (and sometimes dramatically morally inferior). I'm glad I got out. Perhaps becoming a Christian should be compared to getting a job with the Federal government. It is kinda boring and somewhat restricting but if you stick to it, it works out OK. You can retire on moderate pension. In the same way, being part of a church can be a stable way of life. ( 'Huge returns' are promised for when we get to Heaven. ) I do not see analogy with MLM - unless you gave a lot of money to some churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Glad to hear it! Did you ever get answers for those questions elsewhere? I found most of mine answered at the two links I posted above, plus another site, http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/ , which delves more into the apologetics side of things than the history. There are other sites too-- http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ is a classic. If you prefer dead trees, John Loftus' Why I Became An Atheist was of signal interest to me even years after my deconversion--the man obliterates every single tenet of the Christian faith. I haven't read Dawkins, but many people find him helpful in finally freeing themselves from the guilt and fear inherent in Christianity. I have read John Loftus' book. Not impressed at all. He did not have anything new to offer. I would skip it and just use online resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted April 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted April 11, 2012 My questions didn't stop though and became more challenging to my friend - at this point I noticed less and less of my challenging questions were answered to the point where I got no answers to my questions, and when I asked for help during struggles it wasn't forthcoming. That started my Christain demise really, and then when I thought what it was really all about, I realised (came to my senses) that despite being told I was an unworthy sinner, that that was a load on nonsense, and that was it really. This could be a good place to ask challenging questions. I would be happy to give it a shot. And you have several bitter critics of Christianity here. There is little possibility of reconversion on this board! As a really good christian Jay, I am hoping that my name is on your prayer list every second, every minute, every day and night, asking god to soften the hearts of those who were hurt by christianity and also you could throw in there that - besides just having 'faith' in this whole book you call the 'spoken word of god, (right out of god's mouth)........ that he would send someone who can give us those sensible answers we all just wanted....... Yes..I am one of the bitter ones who used to love jesus as much as you...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Perhaps becoming a Christian should be compared to getting a job with the Federal government. It is kinda boring and somewhat restricting but if you stick to it, it works out OK. You can retire on moderate pension. In the same way, being part of a church can be a stable way of life. ( 'Huge returns' are promised for when we get to Heaven. ) I do not see analogy with MLM - unless you gave a lot of money to some churches. All right, Jay, I'll take the bait Christianity demands humongous sacrifices of time and energy, and it promises the hugest rewards of all: protection from the holy wrath of its deity. The Bible promises that God will take care of his children and do absolutely anything his believers ask (except anything he didn't want to do, anything that is outside his divine plan, anything that's too obvious as it'd take away our free will, and anything that might not be in your best interest). And by your own admission, it requires you to live a painfully mediocre life. The biggest payoff happens after death (conveniently unverifiable), when your gamble that this particular deity is the right one turns out to be the correct one. Considering the thousands of gods in the world, the chances that this particular religion is the "right" one is less than 1%. Add in its false claims (especially those made by that God's lying spiritual children, AHEM), and that chance drops precipitously. You still don't see any way possible that Christianity could look like an MLM? So... No, thanks! I'll pass. I'd rather live a glorious life in the here and now. I can't believe you actually admit how lame and mediocre the Christian lifestyle is, but I can't say I disagree at all. I'm so much happier out of the church. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 My questions didn't stop though and became more challenging to my friend - at this point I noticed less and less of my challenging questions were answered to the point where I got no answers to my questions, and when I asked for help during struggles it wasn't forthcoming. That started my Christain demise really, and then when I thought what it was really all about, I realised (came to my senses) that despite being told I was an unworthy sinner, that that was a load on nonsense, and that was it really. This could be a good place to ask challenging questions. I would be happy to give it a shot. And you have several bitter critics of Christianity here. There is little possibility of reconversion on this board! As a really good christian Jay, I am hoping that my name is on your prayer list every second, every minute, every day and night, asking god to soften the hearts of those who were hurt by christianity and also you could throw in there that - besides just having 'faith' in this whole book you call the 'spoken word of god, (right out of god's mouth)........ that he would send someone who can give us those sensible answers we all just wanted....... Yes..I am one of the bitter ones who used to love jesus as much as you...... The question is not whether you love Jesus or not. The more important question is whether you know how much Jesus loves you. Very, very few people know anything about Jesus loving them. This is the main failure of most Christian churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 This could be a good place to ask challenging questions. jay's gotten really good at dodging them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The question is not whether you love Jesus or not. The more important question is whether you know how much Jesus loves you. Very, very few people know anything about Jesus loving them. This is the main failure of most Christian churches. How can Jesus do anything if he doesn't exist? First prove that Jesus exists. And no I don't mean some rabbi that lived in a first century Roman provence. I mean prove your God the Son exists right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Perhaps becoming a Christian should be compared to getting a job with the Federal government. It is kinda boring and somewhat restricting but if you stick to it, it works out OK. You can retire on moderate pension. In the same way, being part of a church can be a stable way of life. ( 'Huge returns' are promised for when we get to Heaven. ) I do not see analogy with MLM - unless you gave a lot of money to some churches. All right, Jay, I'll take the bait Christianity demands humongous sacrifices of time and energy, and it promises the hugest rewards of all: protection from the holy wrath of its deity. The Bible promises that God will take care of his children and do absolutely anything his believers ask (except anything he didn't want to do, anything that is outside his divine plan, anything that's too obvious as it'd take away our free will, and anything that might not be in your best interest). And by your own admission, it requires you to live a painfully mediocre life. The biggest payoff happens after death (conveniently unverifiable), when your gamble that this particular deity is the right one turns out to be the correct one. Considering the thousands of gods in the world, the chances that this particular religion is the "right" one is less than 1%. Add in its false claims (especially those made by that God's lying spiritual children, AHEM), and that chance drops precipitously. You still don't see any way possible that Christianity could look like an MLM? So... No, thanks! I'll pass. I'd rather live a glorious life in the here and now. I can't believe you actually admit how lame and mediocre the Christian lifestyle is, but I can't say I disagree at all. I'm so much happier out of the church. Perhaps becoming a Christian should be compared to getting a job with the Federal government. It is kinda boring and somewhat restricting but if you stick to it, it works out OK. You can retire on moderate pension. In the same way, being part of a church can be a stable way of life. ( 'Huge returns' are promised for when we get to Heaven. ) I do not see analogy with MLM - unless you gave a lot of money to some churches. All right, Jay, I'll take the bait Christianity demands humongous sacrifices of time and energy, and it promises the hugest rewards of all: protection from the holy wrath of its deity. The Bible promises that God will take care of his children and do absolutely anything his believers ask (except anything he didn't want to do, anything that is outside his divine plan, anything that's too obvious as it'd take away our free will, and anything that might not be in your best interest). And by your own admission, it requires you to live a painfully mediocre life. The biggest payoff happens after death (conveniently unverifiable), when your gamble that this particular deity is the right one turns out to be the correct one. Considering the thousands of gods in the world, the chances that this particular religion is the "right" one is less than 1%. Add in its false claims (especially those made by that God's lying spiritual children, AHEM), and that chance drops precipitously. You still don't see any way possible that Christianity could look like an MLM? So... No, thanks! I'll pass. I'd rather live a glorious life in the here and now. I can't believe you actually admit how lame and mediocre the Christian lifestyle is, but I can't say I disagree at all. I'm so much happier out of the church. Actually Christianity does not ask you of anything - except for you to believe. Believe what?? Believe that God loves you and has forgiven you of all sins because what Jesus Christ did on the cross. Believe that God is on your side. Believe that He wants to help you and to make your life better. You may come back and say, hey, my life is not much better even after believing all those in my heart. Well... here is a catch: most of time, God has a tough time making your life better and it usually takes a lot of time. The reason is two fold. First, our minds are filled with many lies told by the world. When we clean up our minds to see Biblical truths, our lives will get better. Second, there is another actor - Satan - who really wants to destroy your life. He may tempt you with lies, drugs, alcohol, immoral life style, etc. You have to take his reality seriously and say no to Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Very, very few people know anything about Jesus loving them. You're a one-man shit factory. EVERYBODY knows 'jesus' allegedly loves them - BUT dead men can't 'love' or do anything else. IF your 'jesus' ever really did exist he's nothing but bones now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 You have to take his reality seriously 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Actually Christianity does not ask you of anything - except for you to believe. Oh look, we have a liar for Jesus! Christianity never asks us to hate homosexuals? Christianity never asks us to attend church or to tithe? Christianity never asks us to feel guilty? Christianity never asks us to make new Christians by witnessing? Christianity never asks us to pray or read our Bible? Christianity never asks us to ignore science, logic or evidence? I could go on and on. Well... here is a catch: most of time, God has a tough time making your life better and it usually takes a lot of time. Thanks for admitting that your God is nearly powerless. The reason is two fold. First, our minds are filled with many lies told by the world. When we clean up our minds to see Biblical truths, our lives will get better. Second, there is another actor - Satan - who really wants to destroy your life. He may tempt you with lies, drugs, alcohol, immoral life style, etc. You have to take his reality seriously and say no to Satan. So God is powerless because humans are confused and Satan is powerful. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up. Oh and are you ever going to verify any of these things are real? I expect you won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The question is not whether you love Jesus or not. The more important question is whether you know how much Jesus loves you. Very, very few people know anything about Jesus loving them. This is the main failure of most Christian churches. How can Jesus do anything if he doesn't exist? First prove that Jesus exists. And no I don't mean some rabbi that lived in a first century Roman provence. I mean prove your God the Son exists right now. Well, the best evidence could be 1/4 of world population who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As far as I know, Jesus Christ is the only person who successfully convinced a large portion of humanity that he is not just a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 So God is powerless because humans are confused and Satan is powerful. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up. Oh and are you ever going to verify any of these things are real? I expect you won't. The Bible teaches that Satan is the god of this world. Looking at the world at present time, I would say more people are under the influence of Satan than under the influence of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The question is not whether you love Jesus or not. The more important question is whether you know how much Jesus loves you. Very, very few people know anything about Jesus loving them. This is the main failure of most Christian churches. How can Jesus do anything if he doesn't exist? First prove that Jesus exists. And no I don't mean some rabbi that lived in a first century Roman provence. I mean prove your God the Son exists right now. Well, the best evidence could be 1/4 of world population who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As far as I know, Jesus Christ is the only person who successfully convinced a large portion of humanity that he is not just a man. In other words you have no objective evidence. Perhaps you do not even understand the concept of objective evidence. Your gun fires blanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 The Bible teaches that Satan is the god of this world. Looking at the world at present time, I would say more people are under the influence of Satan than under the influence of God. And they are having a damn good time! Being under the biblegod's influence makes one a stick in the mud. Some would rather not be the stick, so they take a stick and shove it up their ass. Influence aside, The biblegod won't deliver on his promises until after we all die. So he gives Satan all the blame for his own failure to deliver happiness and prosperity for his chosen in the here and now. But Satan delivers the world to anyone who desires to enjoy it now! What a cool dude Satan is! He doesn't threaten us! Instead, He throws a party for everyone! Woot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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