Annoying Christian Thread Continued Here

[antix]

OK, we can be less polite here

[mcdaddy]

Fuuuucckkk yoooouuuuu!!!!!

 

Just kidding.

[CDFree]

What is the point of this thread???

[antix]

Fuuuucckkk yoooouuuuu!!!!!

 

Just kidding.

 

I am a guy so i will pass LMAO

[RankStranger]

Fuuuucckkk yoooouuuuu!!!!!

 

Just kidding.

 

I am a guy so i will pass LMAO

 

Hey, keep an open mind- you might enjoy that sort of thing.

 

David and Jonathan sure did. That Saul was such a cock-block.

[Deva]

What is the point of this thread???

 

Hmmm - guessing it has something to do with this:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/52344-annoying-christian-thought/page__st__80#entry778175

[mcdaddy]

Yeah. Dave and Jon were totally fabulous together.

[RankStranger]

Yeah. Dave and Jon were totally fabulous together.

 

Yeah, they would've hung out with Ruth and Naomi.

[mcdaddy]

Yeah. Dave and Jon were totally fabulous together.

 

Yeah, they would've hung out with Ruth and Naomi.

 

They would have LOVED LOVED LOOOOVED Gomorrah! With its disco scene and all.

[antix]

Fuuuucckkk yoooouuuuu!!!!!

 

Just kidding.

 

I am a guy so i will pass LMAO

 

Hey, keep an open mind- you might enjoy that sort of thing.

 

David and Jonathan sure did. That Saul was such a cock-block.

 

This is cracking me up. Not that you care, but as much as I complain about christians, of the few I do not is the guy who led me to Christ back in college. A total non judgemental guy with a very strong faith. he is now a pastor at a gay friendly church and is gay himself.

[bornagainathiest]

Ok folks,

 

I realize that I'm a little late arriving at the party, but if it's ok with Antixianxian and everyone else, I'd like to throw in my 10 cents worth.

 

What I've got to say was prompted by McD's quote, here...

 

 

"I there's no hell, what's the point of the crucifixion? You don't need a savin' if there's nothing to be saved FROM."

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My take on what the Bible says, runs like this.

 

Q.

If I use the Bible as a trustworthy source of information about God's unconditional love for us, do I cut myself the slack to pick and choose only those passages that I like or am I obliged to use ALL of the Bible, as one complete and integrated source, that is, God's complete word?

A.

To be honest with myself I MUST accept the whole Bible. I must not edit out, censor, reinterpret, downplay, explain away or ignore any part of it. If I start down that road I am dishonestly forcing the text to say what I WANT it to say, not what it actually says.

 

Q.

Does the Bible say that everyone needs to be saved from the consequences of their sins?

A.

Yes. The God of the Bible cannot tolerate sin and everyone cannot help but sin - it's human nature to do so.

 

Q.

Where did this sinful nature come from?

A.

The events described in the first three chapters of the book of Genesis.

 

Q.

But the Genesis events don't have to be literally true, do they? They could be some kind of allegory or story?

A.

No. The Fall from Grace in Genesis has to be historically true, otherwise there was no need for the Son of God to become a man and die on the cross, to save us from the penalty of our sins. If we say that Jesus is a real, historical person, then the reason he became human has to be just as historical. That is why the Apostle Paul calls Jesus the New Adam. Sin and Death entered into the world thru the disobedience of Adam, but salvation from Sin, Death (and Hell) was provided by Jesus. This Good News is the basic message of Christianity. If we downgrade Genesis from real history, to just a metaphorical ancient myth, then all of Jesus' work becomes meaningless and Christianity is just a lie.

Christian Fundamentalists and Creationists know that Genesis cannot be compromised in any way, which is why they defend it so stubbornly. They know that if you don't treat the Fall as real history, then it's, "Game Over" for the Christian faith.

 

Q.

Is there anywhere else in the Bible that confirms the events of Genesis as real history?

A.

Yes. Jesus refers to Genesis when questioned about the Sabbath day and Paul refers to Abel in the book of Hebrews, but the strongest evidence that Genesis is real history, can be found in the book of Revelation. In fact, Revelation doesn't make any sense if Genesis isn't historical.

 

Q.

Where in Revelation?

A.

Rev 2:7, in the Apostle John's message to the church in Ephesus.

⁷ Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

 

Q.

Where is this Paradise of God?

A.

In the New Jerusalem, which is the city of God he has prepeared for those he has saved from their sins. The saved enter into it only once the dead are judged and the damned are cast into the Lake of Fire (Hell), when they will suffer for all eternity.

Rev 22: 1 - 5.

22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb ² down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

³ No longer will there be any curse.

The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. ⁴ They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. ⁵ There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

 

Q.

What does it mean, "No longer will there be any curse" ?

A.

The curses of pain, suffering, hard toil and death God placed upon Adam and Eve will be lifted - forever.

Genesis 3: 16 - 19.

¹⁶ To the woman he said,

 

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;

with painful labor you will give birth to children.

Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you. ”

¹⁷ To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

 

“Cursed is the ground because of you;

through painful toil you will eat food from it

all the days of your life.

¹⁸ It will produce thorns and thistles for you,

and you will eat the plants of the field.

¹⁹ By the sweat of your brow

you will eat your food

until you return to the ground,

since from it you were taken;

for dust you are

and to dust you will return.”

 

This happens because the sins of Adam and Eve (and all their descendants... us!) have been taken away by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. The sinful nature of the saved has been extinguished and wiped away by Jesus, therefore they are fit to enter God's paradise in the New Jerusalem. Christ has perfected them.

 

Q.

So Genesis, the Gospels and Revelation all depend upon each other? They're all linked and can't be separated?

A.

Yes. Revelation can't happen unless there is a Saviour to die for our sins. There can't be saviour unless there are sins that we need to be saved from. Genesis tells us exactly where, when and how we became sinners. You can't take away any part of this and you can't pick and choose what you like from the Bible - it all hangs together.

 

Q.

So is the book of Genesis supported by any historical evidence?

A.

No. All the claims that Genesis makes about the origins of the universe, the Sun, the Moon, this planet, animal life and the first humans do not match up with the evidence. Therefore, Genesis cannot be treated as real history. If Genesis cannot be treated as trustworthy, anything that is based upon it (the rest of the Bible, all the way to Revelation) cannot be trustworthy either.

 

Q.

So none of the Bible can be taken as a trustworthy source of information about God's unconditional love for us?

A.

No. Not if you are going to be totally honest with yourself.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Conclusion:

 

An honest look at the Bible, when compared with the evidence of our own eyes (Is Genesis historical?) clearly shows us that the Bible is seriously at odds with what we now know about the origin of everything. Therefore, if Genesis is not historical, nothing that follows it or is based upon can be considered historical either.

 

Granted, certain people mentioned in the Bible may have existed and others definitely did exist, but all of their words about the nature of God, mankind's Sin, about Heaven or Hell cannot be treated as trustworthy, historical or accurate.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[RankStranger]

Fuuuucckkk yoooouuuuu!!!!!

 

Just kidding.

 

I am a guy so i will pass LMAO

 

Hey, keep an open mind- you might enjoy that sort of thing.

 

David and Jonathan sure did. That Saul was such a cock-block.

 

This is cracking me up. Not that you care, but as much as I complain about christians, of the few I do not is the guy who led me to Christ back in college. A total non judgemental guy with a very strong faith. he is now a pastor at a gay friendly church and is gay himself.

 

I do care. Not much- but a little.

 

I think it's great when christians can see past their own bullshit and choose not to hate people. IMO they're better human beings for it.

 

But what I don't get is this: The bible is chock FULL of anti-gay sentiment. There's really no getting around it unless you just WANT to ignore it. You'd be aware of this if you had read your own silly bible. So if being hateful toward gays is such a crime- why follow a book and religion that promotes it?

[Vigile]

Fuuuucckkk yoooouuuuu!!!!!

 

Just kidding.

 

I am a guy so i will pass LMAO

 

Hey, keep an open mind- you might enjoy that sort of thing.

 

David and Jonathan sure did. That Saul was such a cock-block.

 

And Paul, such a self flagellating SOB; if only he'd kept his hatred and his secret cross that that he bore for himself, xians might not be so repressed and church ladies in the south might not drown so many urges in cheese cake and tuna casserole.

[Margee]

Ok folks,

 

I realize that I'm a little late arriving at the party, but if it's ok with Antixianxian and everyone else, I'd like to throw in my 10 cents worth.

 

What I've got to say was prompted by McD's quote, here...

 

 

"I there's no hell, what's the point of the crucifixion? You don't need a savin' if there's nothing to be saved FROM."

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My take on what the Bible says, runs like this.

 

Q.

If I use the Bible as a trustworthy source of information about God's unconditional love for us, do I cut myself the slack to pick and choose only those passages that I like or am I obliged to use ALL of the Bible, as one complete and integrated source, that is, God's complete word?

A.

To be honest with myself I MUST accept the whole Bible. I must not edit out, censor, reinterpret, downplay, explain away or ignore any part of it. If I start down that road I am dishonestly forcing the text to say what I WANT it to say, not what it actually says.

 

Q.

Does the Bible say that everyone needs to be saved from the consequences of their sins?

A.

Yes. The God of the Bible cannot tolerate sin and everyone cannot help but sin - it's human nature to do so.

 

Q.

Where did this sinful nature come from?

A.

The events described in the first three chapters of the book of Genesis.

 

Q.

But the Genesis events don't have to be literally true, do they? They could be some kind of allegory or story?

A.

No. The Fall from Grace in Genesis has to be historically true, otherwise there was no need for the Son of God to become a man and die on the cross, to save us from the penalty of our sins. If we say that Jesus is a real, historical person, then the reason he became human has to be just as historical. That is why the Apostle Paul calls Jesus the New Adam. Sin and Death entered into the world thru the disobedience of Adam, but salvation from Sin, Death (and Hell) was provided by Jesus. This Good News is the basic message of Christianity. If we downgrade Genesis from real history, to just a metaphorical ancient myth, then all of Jesus' work becomes meaningless and Christianity is just a lie.

Christian Fundamentalists and Creationists know that Genesis cannot be compromised in any way, which is why they defend it so stubbornly. They know that if you don't treat the Fall as real history, then it's, "Game Over" for the Christian faith.

 

Q.

Is there anywhere else in the Bible that confirms the events of Genesis as real history?

A.

Yes. Jesus refers to Genesis when questioned about the Sabbath day and Paul refers to Abel in the book of Hebrews, but the strongest evidence that Genesis is real history, can be found in the book of Revelation. In fact, Revelation doesn't make any sense if Genesis isn't historical.

 

Q.

Where in Revelation?

A.

Rev 2:7, in the Apostle John's message to the church in Ephesus.

⁷ Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

 

Q.

Where is this Paradise of God?

A.

In the New Jerusalem, which is the city of God he has prepeared for those he has saved from their sins. The saved enter into it only once the dead are judged and the damned are cast into the Lake of Fire (Hell), when they will suffer for all eternity.

Rev 22: 1 - 5.

22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb ² down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

³ No longer will there be any curse.

The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. ⁴ They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. ⁵ There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

 

Q.

What does it mean, "No longer will there be any curse" ?

A.

The curses of pain, suffering, hard toil and death God placed upon Adam and Eve will be lifted - forever.

Genesis 3: 16 - 19.

¹⁶ To the woman he said,

 

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;

with painful labor you will give birth to children.

Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you. ”

¹⁷ To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

 

“Cursed is the ground because of you;

through painful toil you will eat food from it

all the days of your life.

¹⁸ It will produce thorns and thistles for you,

and you will eat the plants of the field.

¹⁹ By the sweat of your brow

you will eat your food

until you return to the ground,

since from it you were taken;

for dust you are

and to dust you will return.”

 

This happens because the sins of Adam and Eve (and all their descendants... us!) have been taken away by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. The sinful nature of the saved has been extinguished and wiped away by Jesus, therefore they are fit to enter God's paradise in the New Jerusalem. Christ has perfected them.

 

Q.

So Genesis, the Gospels and Revelation all depend upon each other? They're all linked and can't be separated?

A.

Yes. Revelation can't happen unless there is a Saviour to die for our sins. There can't be saviour unless there are sins that we need to be saved from. Genesis tells us exactly where, when and how we became sinners. You can't take away any part of this and you can't pick and choose what you like from the Bible - it all hangs together.

 

Q.

So is the book of Genesis supported by any historical evidence?

A.

No. All the claims that Genesis makes about the origins of the universe, the Sun, the Moon, this planet, animal life and the first humans do not match up with the evidence. Therefore, Genesis cannot be treated as real history. If Genesis cannot be treated as trustworthy, anything that is based upon it (the rest of the Bible, all the way to Revelation) cannot be trustworthy either.

 

Q.

So none of the Bible can be taken as a trustworthy source of information about God's unconditional love for us?

A.

No. Not if you are going to be totally honest with yourself.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Conclusion:

 

An honest look at the Bible, when compared with the evidence of our own eyes (Is Genesis historical?) clearly shows us that the Bible is seriously at odds with what we now know about the origin of everything. Therefore, if Genesis is not historical, nothing that follows it or is based upon can be considered historical either.

 

Granted, certain people mentioned in the Bible may have existed and others definitely did exist, but all of their words about the nature of God, mankind's Sin, about Heaven or Hell cannot be treated as trustworthy, historical or accurate.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Anti -X, I would be very interested in hearing about the type of christianity you believe in. You don't go to church anymore, you dislike a lot of christians and their beliefs......what exactly do you believe about the bible, that you continue to call yourself a christian? It sounds like you just believe in god? Thanks.

[Vigile]

So if being hateful toward gays is such a crime- why follow a book and religion that promotes it?

 

Moreover, why do you need a paradigm someone else framed for you to view the world through in the first place unless you really do believe you are at risk of judgement for rejecting or ignoring it? If that's the case, you probably still have a few issues to work through.

[antix]

Ok folks,

 

I realize that I'm a little late arriving at the party, but if it's ok with Antixianxian and everyone else, I'd like to throw in my 10 cents worth.

 

What I've got to say was prompted by McD's quote, here...

 

 

"I there's no hell, what's the point of the crucifixion? You don't need a savin' if there's nothing to be saved FROM."

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

My take on what the Bible says, runs like this.

 

Q.

If I use the Bible as a trustworthy source of information about God's unconditional love for us, do I cut myself the slack to pick and choose only those passages that I like or am I obliged to use ALL of the Bible, as one complete and integrated source, that is, God's complete word?

A.

To be honest with myself I MUST accept the whole Bible. I must not edit out, censor, reinterpret, downplay, explain away or ignore any part of it. If I start down that road I am dishonestly forcing the text to say what I WANT it to say, not what it actually says.

 

Q.

Does the Bible say that everyone needs to be saved from the consequences of their sins?

A.

Yes. The God of the Bible cannot tolerate sin and everyone cannot help but sin - it's human nature to do so.

 

Q.

Where did this sinful nature come from?

A.

The events described in the first three chapters of the book of Genesis.

 

Q.

But the Genesis events don't have to be literally true, do they? They could be some kind of allegory or story?

A.

No. The Fall from Grace in Genesis has to be historically true, otherwise there was no need for the Son of God to become a man and die on the cross, to save us from the penalty of our sins. If we say that Jesus is a real, historical person, then the reason he became human has to be just as historical. That is why the Apostle Paul calls Jesus the New Adam. Sin and Death entered into the world thru the disobedience of Adam, but salvation from Sin, Death (and Hell) was provided by Jesus. This Good News is the basic message of Christianity. If we downgrade Genesis from real history, to just a metaphorical ancient myth, then all of Jesus' work becomes meaningless and Christianity is just a lie.

Christian Fundamentalists and Creationists know that Genesis cannot be compromised in any way, which is why they defend it so stubbornly. They know that if you don't treat the Fall as real history, then it's, "Game Over" for the Christian faith.

 

Q.

Is there anywhere else in the Bible that confirms the events of Genesis as real history?

A.

Yes. Jesus refers to Genesis when questioned about the Sabbath day and Paul refers to Abel in the book of Hebrews, but the strongest evidence that Genesis is real history, can be found in the book of Revelation. In fact, Revelation doesn't make any sense if Genesis isn't historical.

 

Q.

Where in Revelation?

A.

Rev 2:7, in the Apostle John's message to the church in Ephesus.

⁷ Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

 

Q.

Where is this Paradise of God?

A.

In the New Jerusalem, which is the city of God he has prepeared for those he has saved from their sins. The saved enter into it only once the dead are judged and the damned are cast into the Lake of Fire (Hell), when they will suffer for all eternity.

Rev 22: 1 - 5.

22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb ² down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

³ No longer will there be any curse.

The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. ⁴ They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. ⁵ There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

 

Q.

What does it mean, "No longer will there be any curse" ?

A.

The curses of pain, suffering, hard toil and death God placed upon Adam and Eve will be lifted - forever.

Genesis 3: 16 - 19.

¹⁶ To the woman he said,

 

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;

with painful labor you will give birth to children.

Your desire will be for your husband,

and he will rule over you. ”

¹⁷ To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

 

“Cursed is the ground because of you;

through painful toil you will eat food from it

all the days of your life.

¹⁸ It will produce thorns and thistles for you,

and you will eat the plants of the field.

¹⁹ By the sweat of your brow

you will eat your food

until you return to the ground,

since from it you were taken;

for dust you are

and to dust you will return.”

 

This happens because the sins of Adam and Eve (and all their descendants... us!) have been taken away by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. The sinful nature of the saved has been extinguished and wiped away by Jesus, therefore they are fit to enter God's paradise in the New Jerusalem. Christ has perfected them.

 

Q.

So Genesis, the Gospels and Revelation all depend upon each other? They're all linked and can't be separated?

A.

Yes. Revelation can't happen unless there is a Saviour to die for our sins. There can't be saviour unless there are sins that we need to be saved from. Genesis tells us exactly where, when and how we became sinners. You can't take away any part of this and you can't pick and choose what you like from the Bible - it all hangs together.

 

Q.

So is the book of Genesis supported by any historical evidence?

A.

No. All the claims that Genesis makes about the origins of the universe, the Sun, the Moon, this planet, animal life and the first humans do not match up with the evidence. Therefore, Genesis cannot be treated as real history. If Genesis cannot be treated as trustworthy, anything that is based upon it (the rest of the Bible, all the way to Revelation) cannot be trustworthy either.

 

Q.

So none of the Bible can be taken as a trustworthy source of information about God's unconditional love for us?

A.

No. Not if you are going to be totally honest with yourself.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Conclusion:

 

An honest look at the Bible, when compared with the evidence of our own eyes (Is Genesis historical?) clearly shows us that the Bible is seriously at odds with what we now know about the origin of everything. Therefore, if Genesis is not historical, nothing that follows it or is based upon can be considered historical either.

 

Granted, certain people mentioned in the Bible may have existed and others definitely did exist, but all of their words about the nature of God, mankind's Sin, about Heaven or Hell cannot be treated as trustworthy, historical or accurate.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Anti -X, I would be very interested in hearing about the type of christianity you believe in. You don't go to church anymore, you dislike a lot of christians and their beliefs......what exactly do you believe about the bible, that you continue to call yourself a christian? It sounds like you just believe in god? Thanks.

 

I go to church occasionally, but Greek Orthodox (Became a christian in college and went to Bible preaching churches for awhile, but was grossly turned off over time ). I believe the Bible was inspired by God but there are some issues (verses in hebrew and greek translated into german and english do change some maening) and as has been pointed out on this site ad nauseum that many christians pick a verse but ignore everything else. Also, I had to many discussions with xians about what happens to someone like one of those brazil tribe members deep in the forest who never hears about christ and dies. As soon as someone says thay are going to hell, I avoid all conversation with the person.

[Margee]

 

I go to church occasionally, but Greek Orthodox (Became a christian in college and went to Bible preaching churches for awhile, but was grossly turned off over time ). I believe the Bible was inspired by God but there are some issues (verses in hebrew and greek translated into german and english do change some maening) and as has been pointed out on this site ad nauseum that many christians pick a verse but ignore everything else. Also, I had to many discussions with xians about what happens to someone like one of those brazil tribe members deep in the forest who never hears about christ and dies. As soon as someone says thay are going to hell, I avoid all conversation with the person.

 

I am an atheist. Am I going to heaven or hell? Will I be forgiven for being a non-believer?

[antix]

I go to church occasionally, but Greek Orthodox (Became a christian in college and went to Bible preaching churches for awhile, but was grossly turned off over time ). I believe the Bible was inspired by God but there are some issues (verses in hebrew and greek translated into german and english do change some maening) and as has been pointed out on this site ad nauseum that many christians pick a verse but ignore everything else. Also, I had to many discussions with xians about what happens to someone like one of those brazil tribe members deep in the forest who never hears about christ and dies. As soon as someone says thay are going to hell, I avoid all conversation with the person.

 

I am an atheist. Am I going to heaven or hell? Will I be forgiven for being a non-believer?

 

I am suppose to tell you hell. But personally I have other opinions. God will be fair. Also, I have some serious questions / issues about chrsitianity but they are totally philosophical and have nothing at all to do with science, biblical translation etc

[Margee]

I go to church occasionally, but Greek Orthodox (Became a christian in college and went to Bible preaching churches for awhile, but was grossly turned off over time ). I believe the Bible was inspired by God but there are some issues (verses in hebrew and greek translated into german and english do change some maening) and as has been pointed out on this site ad nauseum that many christians pick a verse but ignore everything else. Also, I had to many discussions with xians about what happens to someone like one of those brazil tribe members deep in the forest who never hears about christ and dies. As soon as someone says thay are going to hell, I avoid all conversation with the person.

 

I am an atheist. Am I going to heaven or hell? Will I be forgiven for being a non-believer?

 

I am suppose to tell you hell. But personally I have other opinions. God will be fair. Also, I have some serious questions / issues about chrsitianity but they are totally philosophical and have nothing at all to do with science, biblical translation etc

I believe you are on your way to deconverting my friend. you are a nice christian who just can't believe that god would put such a nice person as myself in hell.

 

That was the beginning for me too. According to the bible anti, (the book you believe in) I AM going to hell to burn for all eternity.........

[antix]

I go to church occasionally, but Greek Orthodox (Became a christian in college and went to Bible preaching churches for awhile, but was grossly turned off over time ). I believe the Bible was inspired by God but there are some issues (verses in hebrew and greek translated into german and english do change some maening) and as has been pointed out on this site ad nauseum that many christians pick a verse but ignore everything else. Also, I had to many discussions with xians about what happens to someone like one of those brazil tribe members deep in the forest who never hears about christ and dies. As soon as someone says thay are going to hell, I avoid all conversation with the person.

 

I am an atheist. Am I going to heaven or hell? Will I be forgiven for being a non-believer?

 

I am suppose to tell you hell. But personally I have other opinions. God will be fair. Also, I have some serious questions / issues about chrsitianity but they are totally philosophical and have nothing at all to do with science, biblical translation etc

I believe you are on your way to deconverting my friend. you are a nice christian who just can't believe that god would put such a nice person as myself in hell.

 

That was the beginning for me too. According to the bible anti, (the book you believe in) I AM going to hell to burn for all eternity.........

 

 

What about rainforest indians who never heard of christ or the natives on islands etc?

[Margee]

I go to church occasionally, but Greek Orthodox (Became a christian in college and went to Bible preaching churches for awhile, but was grossly turned off over time ). I believe the Bible was inspired by God but there are some issues (verses in hebrew and greek translated into german and english do change some maening) and as has been pointed out on this site ad nauseum that many christians pick a verse but ignore everything else. Also, I had to many discussions with xians about what happens to someone like one of those brazil tribe members deep in the forest who never hears about christ and dies. As soon as someone says thay are going to hell, I avoid all conversation with the person.

 

I am an atheist. Am I going to heaven or hell? Will I be forgiven for being a non-believer?

 

I am suppose to tell you hell. But personally I have other opinions. God will be fair. Also, I have some serious questions / issues about chrsitianity but they are totally philosophical and have nothing at all to do with science, biblical translation etc

I believe you are on your way to deconverting my friend. you are a nice christian who just can't believe that god would put such a nice person as myself in hell.

 

That was the beginning for me too. According to the bible anti, (the book you believe in) I AM going to hell to burn for all eternity.........

 

 

What about rainforest indians who never heard of christ or the natives on islands etc?

 

But I HAVE heard 'the truth'..................and I have rejected it.

 

 

Yup......I had the same questions.... you're on your way......

[Vigile]

God will be fair.

 

Did your god create hell? Allow hell to be created? If so, somehow, I don't trust his sense of fairness.

[Vigile]

What about rainforest indians who never heard of christ or the natives on islands etc?

 

That was one of the major questions I had that got my deconversion ball rolling. As usual, the bible is contradictive, but Romans implies they will be judged based on their hearts. Either way, if you take the xian paradigm at face value, those natives and those outside midwest or otherwise mainstream protestant culture, don't get a fair shake and considering the stakes, a fair shake means everything.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Υειa σου, ρε Aντιχιaνχιaν- Έλληνaς είσaι?

 

BAA - as Stranger said, you are a real teacher! I don't know whether Catholickitty is still around, but I wonder what the Catholic Church (or Greek Orthodox, for that matter) would say about your argument that Genesis has to be taken literally for the rest of Christianity to hang together. Catholics generally believe in the TOE. I'm not sure whether it's heretical to think that Adam is symbolic of mankind rather than a historical person, but I think many Catholics would say that the whole Genesis story is an allegory of how humans have sinned and need to be saved - sort of as though everyone is their own Adam and Eve. BAA do you think such Catholics (or others) can get away with that?

[Adam5]

BAA do you think such Catholics (or others) can get away with that?

 

I think it is a those Christians who accept TOE and read Genesis symbolically have a much saner position. But that arguably it is a modern invention, to get around Jesus, Paul and the early Xians were themselves young earth creationists.