Legion Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 We know evolution is true. Yes, I agree. But so what? Evolution is true. Whoop whoop whoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I guess what I'm saying is that I don't need to answer the question about the chicken or the egg. :-) I'm not saying I don't agree with evolution either. It makes sense to me. It's even quite fascinating and I might need to read a book or visit a website on it (got any favorites?). What I am saying is that, over the years evolution hasn't really had an impact in my life personally. Neither creation nor evolution has had much of an impact on me that I'm aware of. Prove me wrong. I bet you can. :-) Are you able to walk? Type on a computer? Think? Evolution has an impact on you daily. Are you conscious? Well.... I guess it has an impact on you every day that you're awake. As for when you sleep, that too. Guess you just can't get away from its impact on you. It's everywhere. I can't prove you wrong, that's the problem in your thinking, its logically impossible to prove a negative. Now you're just being annoying because you've been called out. First you diminutize evolution, then run like a dog with your tail tucked between your legs. Tonewise, there's a very big difference between this post of yours and the one that precedes it, they contradict eachother. When I say 'evolution' I actually mean, theory of evolution. That may clear up some confusion. I will put put 'theory of' in front of evolution from now on. Am I running like a dog or typing another message? :-) I don't always spend all my time on here.... haha. Anyway, I don't think I'm blaspheming diminutizing the theory of evolution. I fully agree that actual evolution has made me (and humanity) who I am today. I can walk and talk and do a bunch of things that my ancestors couldnt. Thank you evolution (not that it needs thanking). Doesnt that go without saying really? I'm just not a theory of evolution fanatic like some people. Now as we consider the future, will reflection on the theory of evolution help me in my daily life? I just dont see what difference it makes whether I am an advocate for the theory of evolution, creationism, or nothing at all. If I arm myself with the knowledge of the theory of evolution, what can I do with that knowledge to better my life? Science is about bettering our lives, right? Btw, someone can be proved wrong. "Wrong" and "negative" are not synonyms. If I say 2+2 = 86 you can't prove me wrong? Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 We know evolution is true. Yes, I agree. But so what? Evolution is true. Whoop whoop whoop. That is rather my attitude. Yes, the theory of evolution is true. So what? Lets put that knowledge to use now.... how does it relate to living my life in 2012? Does it help me keep shelter over my head? Does it feed me better? Will it increase gas mileage? Has it helped bring about the production of ordinary appliances in the home? Other than keeping scientists employed and replacing creationism in schools what other uses for the average human being do we reap from the knowledge of the theory of evolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 4, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted October 4, 2012 what other uses for the average human being do we reap from the knowledge of the theory of evolution? Knowledge for its own sake? Curiosity about life and its origins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Now let's shoot down that gravity crap. Everyone knows god makes stuff fall and the devil holds up those evil airplanes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 That is rather my attitude. Yes, the theory of evolution is true. So what? Lets put that knowledge to use now.... how does it relate to living my life in 2012? Does it help me keep shelter over my head? Does it feed me better? Will it increase gas mileage? Has it helped bring about the production of ordinary appliances in the home? Other than keeping scientists employed and replacing creationism in schools what other uses for the average human being do we reap from the knowledge of the theory of evolution? I can think of one good thing. People who understand evolution do not over use anti-bacterial products nor misuse antibiotics. It's nice that some of us are not marching humanity closer to an AB resistant pandemic. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 That is rather my attitude. Yes, the theory of evolution is true. So what? Lets put that knowledge to use now.... how does it relate to living my life in 2012? Does it help me keep shelter over my head? Does it feed me better? Will it increase gas mileage? Has it helped bring about the production of ordinary appliances in the home? Other than keeping scientists employed and replacing creationism in schools what other uses for the average human being do we reap from the knowledge of the theory of evolution? I can think of one good thing. People who understand evolution do not over use anti-bacterial products nor misuse antibiotics. It's nice that some of us are not marching humanity closer to an AB resistant pandemic. That's a good one! And it's very useful. What else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMandeville Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Oh. My. God. I need to unfollow this thread: We know evolution is true. Yes, I agree. But so what? Evolution is true. Whoop whoop whoop. That is rather my attitude. Yes, the theory of evolution is true. So what? Lets put that knowledge to use now.... how does it relate to living my life in 2012? Does it help me keep shelter over my head? Does it feed me better? Will it increase gas mileage? Has it helped bring about the production of ordinary appliances in the home? Other than keeping scientists employed and replacing creationism in schools what other uses for the average human being do we reap from the knowledge of the theory of evolution? "It's like watching a kid with progeria breaking all of his ribs trying to catch a nerf ball... just sad!" - Hunter Gathers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tothemorning Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I hold the position that it is plausible that their is a life source. To that end, I enjoy this earthly realm in it's pureness. Now do I have to credit a "life source" by way of a defined ideology of God created by men? Absolutely not. I rode that bike for 30 years...and it caused great pain and never gave me the freedom to enjoy this wonderful world and it's celestial surroundings due to living a life of penance through guilt of sin and being consumed with whether I was pleasing God or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 That is rather my attitude. Yes, the theory of evolution is true. So what? Lets put that knowledge to use now.... how does it relate to living my life in 2012? Does it help me keep shelter over my head? Does it feed me better? Will it increase gas mileage? Has it helped bring about the production of ordinary appliances in the home? Other than keeping scientists employed and replacing creationism in schools what other uses for the average human being do we reap from the knowledge of the theory of evolution? I can think of one good thing. People who understand evolution do not over use anti-bacterial products nor misuse antibiotics. It's nice that some of us are not marching humanity closer to an AB resistant pandemic. That's a good one! And it's very useful. What else? Dog breeding. Puppy mills that don't care about genetic defects are really sad, as are some of the deformed dogs in dog shows that breed for a single trait in the extreme and thus end up with some really awful side effects. Good breeders understand genetics enough to breed for quality of life issues. I suppose that goes for cats too. Modern agriculture relies way too much on monocultures that leave the population vulnerable to new diseases and put our food supply at risk. Genetics/evolution helps you understand public policy issues surrounding Monstanto, gene patents, and genetically modified crops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 That is rather my attitude. Yes, the theory of evolution is true. So what? Lets put that knowledge to use now.... how does it relate to living my life in 2012? Does it help me keep shelter over my head? Does it feed me better? Will it increase gas mileage? Has it helped bring about the production of ordinary appliances in the home? Other than keeping scientists employed and replacing creationism in schools what other uses for the average human being do we reap from the knowledge of the theory of evolution? I can think of one good thing. People who understand evolution do not over use anti-bacterial products nor misuse antibiotics. It's nice that some of us are not marching humanity closer to an AB resistant pandemic. That's a good one! And it's very useful. What else? Dog breeding. Puppy mills that don't care about genetic defects are really sad, as are some of the deformed dogs in dog shows that breed for a single trait in the extreme and thus end up with some really awful side effects. Good breeders understand genetics enough to breed for quality of life issues. I suppose that goes for cats too. Modern agriculture relies way too much on monocultures that leave the population vulnerable to new diseases and put our food supply at risk. Genetics/evolution helps you understand public policy issues surrounding Monstanto, gene patents, and genetically modified crops. Brewing and culturing my own yeast, it is good to know that there will be new strains in each generation that could potentially outperform the original strain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 But don't we all really know that the most delightful thing about evolution is that its very useful for belittling Christians? Some days, I have to make a real effort to convince myself that people don't suck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 That is rather my attitude. Yes, the theory of evolution is true. So what? Lets put that knowledge to use now.... how does it relate to living my life in 2012? Does it help me keep shelter over my head? Does it feed me better? Will it increase gas mileage? Has it helped bring about the production of ordinary appliances in the home? Other than keeping scientists employed and replacing creationism in schools what other uses for the average human being do we reap from the knowledge of the theory of evolution? I can think of one good thing. People who understand evolution do not over use anti-bacterial products nor misuse antibiotics. It's nice that some of us are not marching humanity closer to an AB resistant pandemic. That's a good one! And it's very useful. What else? Dog breeding. Puppy mills that don't care about genetic defects are really sad, as are some of the deformed dogs in dog shows that breed for a single trait in the extreme and thus end up with some really awful side effects. Good breeders understand genetics enough to breed for quality of life issues. I suppose that goes for cats too. Modern agriculture relies way too much on monocultures that leave the population vulnerable to new diseases and put our food supply at risk. Genetics/evolution helps you understand public policy issues surrounding Monstanto, gene patents, and genetically modified crops. Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 That is rather my attitude. Yes, the theory of evolution is true. So what? Lets put that knowledge to use now.... how does it relate to living my life in 2012? Does it help me keep shelter over my head? Does it feed me better? Will it increase gas mileage? Has it helped bring about the production of ordinary appliances in the home? Other than keeping scientists employed and replacing creationism in schools what other uses for the average human being do we reap from the knowledge of the theory of evolution? I can think of one good thing. People who understand evolution do not over use anti-bacterial products nor misuse antibiotics. It's nice that some of us are not marching humanity closer to an AB resistant pandemic. That's a good one! And it's very useful. What else? Dog breeding. Puppy mills that don't care about genetic defects are really sad, as are some of the deformed dogs in dog shows that breed for a single trait in the extreme and thus end up with some really awful side effects. Good breeders understand genetics enough to breed for quality of life issues. I suppose that goes for cats too. Modern agriculture relies way too much on monocultures that leave the population vulnerable to new diseases and put our food supply at risk. Genetics/evolution helps you understand public policy issues surrounding Monstanto, gene patents, and genetically modified crops. Brewing and culturing my own yeast, it is good to know that there will be new strains in each generation that could potentially outperform the original strain. Ok, we are getting serious now. If it affects my beer, I better read up on this evolution theory.... :-) Anyone recommend any good books at Barnes and Noble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Ok, we are getting serious now. If it affects my beer, I better read up on this evolution theory.... :-) Yes! It's damn serious! Oh, and hops. Hops is evolving too, both naturally and through artificial selection. I heard there are some hops that can resist California heat now. Anyone recommend any good books at Barnes and Noble? Gosh. I'm never good with recommending books. I took a class. Read text books. We also read Dawkins "The Greatest Show on Earth." I liked it, but not everyone likes Dawkins. He can get a bit "talky" at times. (Like me?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 But don't we all really know that the most delightful thing about evolution is that its very useful for belittling Christians? Some days, I have to make a real effort to convince myself that people don't suck. Lots of Christians are perfectly well aware that evolution is a fact and that evolutionary theory is incredibly well-supported. The ones who don't are either uneducated, on the lunatic fringe, or both. What's respectable about that? They deserve to be belittled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 But don't we all really know that the most delightful thing about evolution is that its very useful for belittling Christians? Some days, I have to make a real effort to convince myself that people don't suck. Lots of Christians are perfectly well aware that evolution is a fact and that evolutionary theory is incredibly well-supported. The ones who don't are either uneducated, on the lunatic fringe, or both. What's respectable about that? They deserve to be belittled. No, the point of arguing for evolution is that they started it. A subset of christians, that even other christians think are crazy and wrong, decided to force their religion on the rest of the country by trying to force public schools to "teach the controversy" to everyone's children. They were the ones who made this into such a big deal that there's an entire industry surrounding pushing creationism. I have personally been harmed by this focus on creationism. I never learned what evolution is really about until college because I went to a christian school until then. I like biology, but decided not to consider going into the field because it would mean getting in the middle of a really ugly fight - my career choices and educational opportunities were limited. Then there's the way they justify their opposition to evolution by embracing relativism. Ken Ham's teaching can be summed up as "truth cannot speak for itself; your preconceptions color everything and there's no escaping them. So you'd better choose the right preconceptions!" This attitude is paralyzing because there's absolutely no way to discern truth from fiction if you can't trust anything you perceive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I also disagree with the idea that evolution is for belittling Christians. Really the science is about learning and improving the lives of people. It only comes in conflict with Christians who want to live backward and ignorant lives while enjoying all that science has to offer. Fundies could always go off by themselves and live like the Amish. Nobody is stopping them from doing that. But they don't want that. They want to convert the rest of us to be just like them. Then they want to reshape our culture based on an Iron Age book. Creationists and ID proponents are against progress. That is what belittles them. Christian sects that want to survive are adapting to modern progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackpudd1n Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 No, the point of arguing for evolution is that they started it. A subset of christians, that even other christians think are crazy and wrong, decided to force their religion on the rest of the country by trying to force public schools to "teach the controversy" to everyone's children. They were the ones who made this into such a big deal that there's an entire industry surrounding pushing creationism. I have personally been harmed by this focus on creationism. I never learned what evolution is really about until college because I went to a christian school until then. I like biology, but decided not to consider going into the field because it would mean getting in the middle of a really ugly fight - my career choices and educational opportunities were limited. Then there's the way they justify their opposition to evolution by embracing relativism. Ken Ham's teaching can be summed up as "truth cannot speak for itself; your preconceptions color everything and there's no escaping them. So you'd better choose the right preconceptions!" This attitude is paralyzing because there's absolutely no way to discern truth from fiction if you can't trust anything you perceive. Red- postmodernism in practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I also disagree with the idea that evolution is for belittling Christians. Really the science is about learning and improving the lives of people. It only comes in conflict with Christians who want to live backward and ignorant lives while enjoying all that science has to offer. Fundies could always go off by themselves and live like the Amish. Nobody is stopping them from doing that. But they don't want that. They want to convert the rest of us to be just like them. Then they want to reshape our culture based on an Iron Age book. Creationists and ID proponents are against progress. That is what belittles them. Christian sects that want to survive are adapting to modern progress. Hold on. I didn't say that evolution is for belittling Christians. I simply made the point that not all Christians are ignorant lunatics, but the ones that are deserve to belittled for it. That was in response to Legion's hyperbolic statement about evolution being useful for belittling Christians, with which I disagree. Sorry if I was unclear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ro-bear Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Anyone else in this place of confusion? Not I. Learning about it helps. I honestly don't see how one could not be swayed by the overwhelming evidence for it once one has devoted hours of study to it, and I am a fairly skeptical person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I also disagree with the idea that evolution is for belittling Christians. Really the science is about learning and improving the lives of people. It only comes in conflict with Christians who want to live backward and ignorant lives while enjoying all that science has to offer. Fundies could always go off by themselves and live like the Amish. Nobody is stopping them from doing that. But they don't want that. They want to convert the rest of us to be just like them. Then they want to reshape our culture based on an Iron Age book. Creationists and ID proponents are against progress. That is what belittles them. Christian sects that want to survive are adapting to modern progress. Hold on. I didn't say that evolution is for belittling Christians. I know. You quoted Legion who said it. I won't confuse you and Legion. I simply made the point that not all Christians are ignorant lunatics, but the ones that are deserve to belittled for it. That was in response to Legion's hyperbolic statement about evolution being useful for belittling Christians, with which I disagree. Sorry if I was unclear. I agree with you. The reason those people deserve it is that they bring it upon themselves. IDers and Creationists are the ones causing the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndwalkr99 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 I know. You quoted Legion who said it. I won't confuse you and Legion. Oh, phew! Thank the FSM! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akheia Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 There mere fact that someone questions whether or not evolutionary theory is supported is testament to the fervent efforts of the ID anti-science crowd. I'm wondering why nobody's mentioned that. There wouldn't *be* questions about it if it weren't for a small subset of the evangelical church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 The ones who don't are either uneducated, on the lunatic fringe, or both. What's respectable about that? They deserve to be belittled. My son is one of those people. He's well educated, makes good money, and is a normal southern baptist. I had to give up the "they're either stupid or crazy" idea. It's early indoctrination (thanks to my fundy mom) and it's hard to shake when it's firmly ingrained in the subconscious. There are nutbags amonst them, I agree, but some of the IDers are quite normal otherwise. Brainwashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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