A Testing

[Legion]

I think it was Stryper who suggested that I take action. And I intend to, but I have to be honest. I am procrastinating because I know when the outlines of my strategy are given greater flesh and detail, and I begin implementing it, then I will have to more deeply grieve for the coming loss.

Why don't you try to not speak in vague riddles?

 

No vague riddle there. What information would you like?

[stryper]

Economic collapes is one of two VERY broad outcomes. Yes it is a possibility. With the issuses in Europe expanding, and the US focus on the debt, and China not growing like a teenager anymore, things are shifting. It seems we have matured enough as a speices to not destroy ourselves everytime a change is needed. The most likely outcome that I see now is a the US debt getting stabilized and shifted to maintaince. Not adding to it and essentially a payment plan to ween US off it. In conjuction with that, increases in spending in things like road, electrial grids, education, technology, etc. In essence, getting US on a track to the future. Europe could be heading the in a similar direction. China I think will have to change the most.

 

That said, societies have collapsed before. Life has still gone on. Granted it was much different than before. Life doesn't stop for those that choose to keep living it.

[RankStranger]

I simply cannot relate to being so fearful all the time. And, fortunately for me, nothing being said is moving me toward that state of being.

 

mwc

 

I think it was Stryper who suggested that I take action. And I intend to, but I have to be honest. I am procrastinating because I know when the outlines of my strategy are given greater flesh and detail, and I begin implementing it, then I will have to more deeply grieve for the coming loss.

 

Have you considered that maybe you just can't distinguish reality from paranoid conspiracy theory?

 

You've posted a couple of threads over the past few days that demonstrate this pretty clearly.

[Galien]

If it happens it happens. But the next day the sun will still rise. The birds will still sing. And the mayfly lives of politicians will have passed quicker than their namesake.

 

You seem not to care much about human suffering, or the fact that the cultural expectations of Americans are that of freedom.

 

The cutlural expectations of americans are flawed. You guys need to get over the bullshit you are brainwashed with and tell yourselves the truth. Not everyone can be rich and famous, or be the president, or have equal opportunity. You care more about stuff than you do about people and your love affair with capitalism has turned some of you in to deluded greedy idiots who think you can consume ad nauseum and never have to pay the piper. Your country is NOT exceptional, not kind to its people, and not very honest. When you finally get around to disengaging your idea that it is the accumulation of wealth that makes you successful and not your regard for others, then maybe you guys have some kind of a chance. But as long as you worship world dominance, continue to wage uneccesary "wars" and believe your own bullshit you are screwed.

[mwc]

I think it was Stryper who suggested that I take action. And I intend to, but I have to be honest. I am procrastinating because I know when the outlines of my strategy are given greater flesh and detail, and I begin implementing it, then I will have to more deeply grieve for the coming loss.

Why don't you try to not speak in vague riddles?

 

No vague riddle there. What information would you like?

You will "implement it" (your "strategy") and that will cause you "more deeply grieve" for the "coming loss." Wonderful. It sounds very deep and important. It also holds no meaning. It could range from killing the President to just posting some rant to your Facebook wall and then some.

 

mwc

[RankStranger]

I think it was Stryper who suggested that I take action. And I intend to, but I have to be honest. I am procrastinating because I know when the outlines of my strategy are given greater flesh and detail, and I begin implementing it, then I will have to more deeply grieve for the coming loss.

Why don't you try to not speak in vague riddles?

 

No vague riddle there. What information would you like?

 

What's you're strategy and how do you intend to implement it? What are your goals?

 

Thanks.

[R. S. Martin]

Look, I am going through most of the classic cognitive stages of loss. Now some of you might take glee in this, and if so then I think this speaks to the gutteral state of your character.

 

When Obama was put back in office, my initial reaction was basically denial. "Is that happening? Nah, can't be... I can't believe that just happened." Then I was filthy angry. And now I'm basically moving through bargaining, grief, and on to acceptance.

 

I was at work last night and a black woman who works there walked by and said in a mocking tone, "The sky is falling. The sky is falling." And I wasn't angry at all. She just seemed like the biggest fool in the world to me.

 

The sky is not falling. It will still be there. But our economy is heading towards an area somewhere between meltdown and disintegration. Even if Romney had won, we would have been heading in that direction, but he might have slowed it somewhat and given us more time to become informed and prepared. Now we are speeding towards it. This woman has no idea that the reality within which she has generally lived is about to come unglued. And on the off chance that she voted for Obama, she actually contributed to its acceleration.

 

So you think you've got it tough. You at least had a vote in the matter. Our fate on this side of the border is tightly linked with yours yet all we could do was watch with bated breath what you guys down south are doing. We were fully aware that Americans don't give a damn about us yet we depended on getting Obama re-elected. I'm sure we in Canada weren't alone in helpless anticipation while unpredictable Americans went to the polls. The entire world was deeply interested. And helpless to influence things. Count your blessings, dude. You live there and have a voice!

[MerryG]

I think it was Stryper who suggested that I take action. And I intend to, but I have to be honest. I am procrastinating because I know when the outlines of my strategy are given greater flesh and detail, and I begin implementing it, then I will have to more deeply grieve for the coming loss.

 

Legion, I have an idea of where you're coming from. I spent many, many years expecting political, economic, social doom. I still expect it -- in the long run. Maybe next year, maybe not in my lifetime. But I'm older than you and from my little corner of life I've observed that systems -- even stumbling, thoroughly corrupt systems -- have far more resiliency than we expect. Many of us expected monetary collapse within a few years of Nixon's 1971 trick. Good thing we weren't holding our breath.

 

I also understand about reeling from various shocks. For you, it was the election. Over time I've had some of my own that send me plunging into despair.

 

It's absolutely correct that action -- well-considered action -- is the way up from that despair. It's not clear of course what sort of action you might be contemplating in the above quote. But it doesn't sound healthy or positive. Let me suggest that, despite the world going to hell in a handbasket, there are multitudes of actions we can take to prepare ourselves, to strengthen our own communities (which are ultimately more important to us that the big national scene, anyhow), to laugh at the pretensions of the bastards who think they hold power over us when really we are grains of sand that slip through their grasp. To enjoy life and build freedom.

 

There is so much we can all do despite what "they" (the 1%, the Federal Reserve, the politicians, etc.) do.

 

So go ahead and mourn. But when you're ready to end your mourning, understand that there are useful, bold, enjoyable things you can do to salvage your own life, freedom, and values out of whatever national mess the rulers have made of things.

 

Good luck.

[Legion]

What's you're strategy and how do you intend to implement it? What are your goals?

 

My short term goal is to survive in the face of a variety of supply disruptions, and my long term goal, which is to better understand nature and be productive and creative and be embedded in a community of people who desire the same thing remain the same.

 

Legion, I have an idea of where you're coming from. I spent many, many years expecting political, economic, social doom. I still expect it -- in the long run. Maybe next year, maybe not in my lifetime. But I'm older than you and from my little corner of life I've observed that systems -- even stumbling, thoroughly corrupt systems -- have far more resiliency than we expect. Many of us expected monetary collapse within a few years of Nixon's 1971 trick. Good thing we weren't holding our breath.

 

Yeah, I suspect there may be some micro-bubbles still yet, and there's a variety of things I can't see. I don't know the severity of it or the length of duration, or the conditions of things on the other side.

 

I also understand about reeling from various shocks. For you, it was the election. Over time I've had some of my own that send me plunging into despair.

 

I just learned today that my Mom has a month on the outside to live.

 

It's absolutely correct that action -- well-considered action -- is the way up from that despair. It's not clear of course what sort of action you might be contemplating in the above quote. But it doesn't sound healthy or positive. Let me suggest that, despite the world going to hell in a handbasket, there are multitudes of actions we can take to prepare ourselves, to strengthen our own communities (which are ultimately more important to us that the big national scene, anyhow), to laugh at the pretensions of the bastards who think they hold power over us when really we are grains of sand that slip through their grasp. To enjoy life and build freedom.

 

I hope this will be the case, and I suspect that it may be. But when I contemplate shortage, turmoil, and the powers that could be brought down these days in martial law, and the current international situation, I can't even express it.

 

There is so much we can all do despite what "they" (the 1%, the Federal Reserve, the politicians, etc.) do.

 

So go ahead and mourn. But when you're ready to end your mourning, understand that there are useful, bold, enjoyable things you can do to salvage your own life, freedom, and values out of whatever national mess the rulers have made of things.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you G. You too.

[mwc]

My short term goal is to survive in the face of a variety of supply disruptions, and my long term goal, which is to better understand nature and be productive and creative and be embedded in a community of people who desire the same thing remain the same.

Since you don't come out and say anything directly I am going to guess that you're wanting to do some "doomsday prepping" for where you're at right now and then join some sort of militia and/or survivalist community and live there for the long haul?

 

mwc

[Galien]

A life lived in fear is a life half lived. Worry about it if it happens.

[RipVanWinkle]

Legion: You are over estimating your ability to forsee the future. And to completely understand our present situation. No insult intended at all. I don't think anybody can do those things with any degree of certainty. Also, as a sort of side comment, Romney doesn't have a clue about the 47% he insulted. Not a clue. You have to live with people before you can hope to understand them. As the Indians used to say,"You never really know a man until you walk a mile in his moccasins." I'm not sure it would do Romney any good. The man has no ability to empathize, a very important asset for a president to have. "The hell with the poor; its all their fault", is his message. Rather, to hell with him. bill

[ConureDelSol]

I'm sorry, but I can't believe that this whole topic basically ended up about Legion being butthurt that Obama won again.

 

It's an assholish remark, but someone had to say it.

[midniterider]

A life lived in fear is a life half lived. Worry about it if it happens.

 

Agreed. Fear and worry are a waste. I still do some of that but try not to. I don't want to look back on my life and say, "I spent most of it worrying and in fear of the future."

[Thackerie]

I'm sorry, but I can't believe that this whole topic basically ended up about Legion being butthurt that Obama won again.

 

It's an assholish remark, but someone had to say it.

 

 

Well, you just said what I've been thinking since the first post. Sounds like someone OD'ed on Faux News, on Glen Beck in particular.

 

Personally, I think this country really dodged a bullet with the defeat of Romney. Apparently, the majority of voters felt the same way. But maybe the 69,456,897 of us who voted for Obama just aren't as smart as Legion.

 

[MultifariousBirdLady]

 

Personally, I think this country really dodged a bullet with the defeat of Romney.

Same here.

Absolutely.

[Ravenstar]

Sorry to hear about your mom.

 

The one thing I have noticed with people... especially people more to the right.. is an intense fear of change. I think some of the previous posters got it right.. yes, things are changing, and with change comes discomfort... societies change, economics change, politics change. Sometimes civilizations collapse - because they can't sustain the weight of either their political or economic ideologies or because social evolution forces it.

 

Study some history... it's pretty much inevitable that things don't stay the same. It isn't Obama, or Bush, or even Reagan or Clinton... it's the entire thing. It's been moving this way for a long time now... since the industrial age began to give way to technology. Obama isn't the enemy... but his funders ARE. Bush wasn't the enemy (although an incredibly stupid man) his handlers WERE. (no one can tell me Cheney isn't evil incarnate)

 

What is going on in the USA, and around the world are the birth pains of change. Societies based on industrial age economics are in jeopardy with the birth of the tech/info age, and with a global economy. That's a simplistic view but a good place to start. The industrial giants don't want change... it messes with their profits and power base... so they use propaganda and lobbying and politics to keep us misinformed and fearful and angry at each other.. keeps the lens off of them. (gosh, they must really hate the internet... if you fight anything it would be any 'control' or regulation of the internet)

 

Nationalism is becoming obsolete (not yet - but it's moving that way) Capitalism is crumbling under it's own weight. Democracy is still the best political system we have, but it isn't perfect and will need to adapt as well.

 

Quality of Life Index: The majority of countries with the highest standard of living lean socialist... just some interesting facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

 

The thing is, we need to broaden our view. This isn't an 'American' problem.. it's worldwide. America is just showing it more because of it's leadership and economic status. The Arab Spring is also related, as are many other things.

 

If we look at the French Revolution.. we see some similarities. A decadent and out of touch ruling class, a faltering economy and rage against the elite (rightly so). Same with the Bolshevik revolution and yes, even the Nazi movement. People react to economic instability... and despotism. But changes happen nonetheless.

 

I have seen signs of a big shake-up for a long time. Like 20 years now. I just hope that we can make this transition without: 1) blowing ourselves up and 2) without too much pain and suffering.

 

Things CAN'T stay the same - but we CAN affect the direction the change goes in.

 

It isn't about Dems vs. Repubs.. that's a very narrow and childish view... it's a fundamental change that's worldwide. Those who fear change... especially the more conservative and also fundamentalists, are lashing back, unfortunately.. and this was seen in the last election, trying to stop social change doesn't work for long.

 

I support the Occupy movement (worldwide) because I think they are dead on in their idea that the elite are the enemy, not each other. Retaining control of the government through democracy (the people) seems to be the only way (at the moment) that we can weather these changes in society and the world. The WHOLE concept of Occupy is that the people (not the corporations, banks or big business) are the ones who should have the power, and that freedom of speech is our most important freedom.

 

I'm sorry to say this but the USA can not hold on to it's myths anymore.. it changes, or it dies and will be replaced. That's history, and it's inevitable... which way will it go? That's up to the people, ultimately.

[Thackerie]

I do want to apologize to Legion for missing the part about his mother. That is something real and tangible to worry about and could be what has truly set off this latest round of fear and bad feelings. I know what it's like to watch one's parents decline.

 

You have my sympathy, Legion.

[Voice]

The stuff you're in panic over, Legion, is concern a lot of people go through (some get stuck in) in the society we live in. It's natural. I've been through it. I came out with a hard-ass view of this country that's not at all about freedom or free speech. You should look at Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States. It's banned in most schools. It's the real history.

 

You have to realize Obama isn't in control of anything. He's a smiling face hiding the real ruling party, a small group of white men who don't value human life or the planet, who feel equality is a joke.

 

Stryper makes a good point about doing something. Writing a book, that's one of the things I'm doing; science fiction, putting those career placement algorithms to work, extrapolating "what-if" societies. Maybe it's vain, but it's catharsis for me. If someone talks to me of the fairy tale version of the US that we're taught in grade school, I just tell them how it is. So much for innocence.

 

Nothing behind the economy is an accident. Nothing that happens is an accident. Ballooning economies are a planned pregnancy. Who plans it? The ones who get rich when the shit goes down. Right now corporations are the economic titans, and they're bigger than government.

 

In terms of national debt structure, I like to speculate a day when a wave of Chinese families and businesses move into American towns and homes saying, "you go. You no live here." Pay back time.

[RipVanWinkle]

It's amazing how ubiquitous this fear of the near future is. One thing seems clear to me, As long as there is such a disparity of wealth in this world, there will be war and strife. It's unconscionable. An acquantance told me one time that, The history of the world is a balttle between the haves and the have nots. We are with the haves." As if we have no choice. bill

[wndwalkr99]

I just learned today that my Mom has a month on the outside to live.

 

Legion,

 

I am so, so sorry to hear that. Please, focus on her...spend time with her. You can do the woe-is-me thing later, but please don't forget to do all you can to make good use of what you are trying to protect.

 

Hugs to you take care!