Would You Ever Submit And Worship God

[Guest r3alchild]

 

 

Let's say for the sake of the argument your god actually does exist. When you say "There is a deep need to convince themselves that He does not exist." did it ever occur to you that there could be a legitimate reason for this? .

Yes, it did occur to me. It seems anti Christians engage in a deep form of selection bias where they focus in on, dwell on, obsess over that which they are able to interpret in their own minds as justification for their pre-existing vitriol. They ignore the deep and everlasting Love God freely offers. I don't believe for a minute any anti Christian cares one whit about what happened to the Canaanites. They do care about how to cast the God they hate in a bad light through careful and obsessive selection.

They do care alot, about more than I used to think when I was a christian. You will only see that when you take the spooky specs off.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

Why would polytheism seem more rational to you?

 

 

Why is monotheism rational to you?  Answer without reference to the Bible.

 

I have answered. Everyone here struts around acting like they were former "apologists" and Bible "experts" so they must know the Christian arguments by heart.

 

Please don't deflect the question. We all know the elephant in the room is that polytheism is treated with kid gloves on this site. Endless rants are given about "evidence" yet polytheism is openly embraced here. As I said, it seems evidence is a red herring and the true goal is simply anti Christianity in any and all forms.

 

[RankStranger]

 

 

Let's say for the sake of the argument your god actually does exist. When you say "There is a deep need to convince themselves that He does not exist." did it ever occur to you that there could be a legitimate reason for this? .

Yes, it did occur to me. It seems anti Christians engage in a deep form of selection bias where they focus in on, dwell on, obsess over that which they are able to interpret in their own minds as justification for their pre-existing vitriol. They ignore the deep and everlasting Love God freely offers. I don't believe for a minute any anti Christian cares one whit about what happened to the Canaanites. They do care about how to cast the God they hate in a bad light through careful and obsessive selection.

 

 

 

The best expression of deep and everlasting love is to eternally torture anybody who doubts it.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

Only if I were on the precipice of hell and God was getting ready to shove me in.Then it would be forced, wouldn't it?

 

Otherwise, some form of brain damage.

 

Anyway, I follow the Dharma. 

Where is dharma leading you?

 

 

What do you know of the Dharma? If we are not speaking the same language, we can't communicate.

 

Teach those who are reading.

[Deva]

 

 

 

Why would polytheism seem more rational to you?

 

 

Why is monotheism rational to you?  Answer without reference to the Bible.

 

I have answered. Everyone here struts around acting like they were former "apologists" and Bible "experts" so they must know the Christian arguments by heart.

 

Please don't deflect the question. We all know the elephant in the room is that polytheism is treated with kid gloves on this site. Endless rants are given about "evidence" yet polytheism is openly embraced here. As I said, it seems evidence is a red herring and the true goal is simply anti Christianity in any and all forms.

 

 

I wouldn't say that polytheism is "openly embraced" here. I think most polls show that people here are largely atheists/agnostics. Obviously we reject Christianity.  But other than that, there are pagans and others here.

 

The only real common ground here is that we do reject Christianity, otherwise we would not be on a site called "Ex-Christian" would we?

 

Polytheism is at least as reasonable as monotheism.

[Guest r3alchild]

 

 

 

 

 

A consequence of an action is not extortion. Damnation is a consequence of a free will choice people make. If a father tells their child not to stick their hand in the fire the father is not extorting anything from the child.

 

 

Even if our children disobey us, I don't know a human parent who would force the child to keep his hand on the hot fire for all eternity.

 

That's your evil god's specialty.

 

 

So fuck him and fuck anyone who tries to influence me into worshiping such a monster. Short of brain-damage, I could never worship him again. If he "appeared" before me, I would doubt my own sanity and would check myself into a mental hospital -- pronto!

What child in their right mind would hate their parent for telling them not to drink and drive.

The child is doing something outside of the parent's control.

 

The parent may report the kid to the authorities and it is hard to cover up a car crashing into something, but the parent is not sending the child off to eternal torment for all eternity for doing so. Sure life may suck for a bit for the kid, but the kid still has a chance for redemption.

 

 

 

A consequence of an action is not extortion. Damnation is a consequence of a free will choice people make. If a father tells their child not to stick their hand in the fire the father is not extorting anything from the child.

 

Even if our children disobey us, I don't know a human parent who would force the child to keep his hand on the hot fire for all eternity.

 

That's your evil god's specialty.

 

 

So fuck him and fuck anyone who tries to influence me into worshiping such a monster. Short of brain-damage, I could never worship him again. If he "appeared" before me, I would doubt my own sanity and would check myself into a mental hospital -- pronto!

What child in their right mind would hate their parent for telling them not to drink and drive.

I get what your trying to say here, but a loving human parent would not send there child to hell as a consequence if they did drink then drive.

Looks like I was ninja'd, lol.

I didn't get what you ment strait away, so I went and posted to clay came back then read your post again, I still didn't get so I read it again then I saw the edited by.... down the bottom and I thought ohhhhh I get it.

 

You were not out ninja'd more like out slothed.

[OrdinaryClay]

If we are the children of God and, wouldn't God want us to stand on our own two feet and reach our true potential without his intervention? Isn't it selfish to continue to rely on him when we can solve our problems on our own? As adults we can't continue to rely on our parents, eventually we do need to support ourselves and find our own ways. You can call it pride, but I refer to it as being self-sufficient.

 

Perhaps He knows more than we do just as normal parents realize they know more than their child. Perhaps He knows we cannot achieve anything but an illusion of self sufficiency with out His guidance and help. Perhaps He knows we are the creation and He is the Creator.

 

for "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, (1Pe 1:24)

 

[Deva]

 

 

 

Only if I were on the precipice of hell and God was getting ready to shove me in.Then it would be forced, wouldn't it?

 

Otherwise, some form of brain damage.

 

Anyway, I follow the Dharma. 

Where is dharma leading you?

 

 

What do you know of the Dharma? If we are not speaking the same language, we can't communicate.

 

Teach those who are reading.

 

Many Buddhist texts speak of the qualifications of the teacher, as well as the student.   I don't put myself forth as a teacher, but what I have learned is satisfactory to me.  

 

As a student, you have to be willing to be open to learning and seeing different points of view.  Unfortunately, I don't see evidence in what you have posted that you have this openness.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

What would bring you to completely submit and worship The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Proof

 

Actually, that is reasonable with the caveat that proof outside mathematics and logic is really a collection of evidence which upon reaching a certain threshold will convince us of something.

 

So we can't prove God exists outside the bible, therefore it is reasonable to doubt his existence or at least the Christian version.

 

There is substantial and significant evidence for God outside the Bible. Do you know what Natural Theology is?

[raoul]

 

Thurisaz, you may have heard this saying: you can't fix stupid. But I like to add that you can hope it doesn't breed.

Oh I don't hope to "fix" a morontheist. But there are times when I just love to have pointed one to truth purely for shits and giggles *snicker* 

 

Tell us about polytheism.

Why would I? You wouldn't listen anyway - at "best" you'd scan my posting for keywords and babble the preprogrammed response that was fucked into (whatever passes for) your brain by your cult führer.

 

You are a gem mein freund. I'm reading your note with the quote by someone called 'fuckface' and I'm saying who the hell is this fuckface? I never heard of him/her before? And then the lights came one. ROFL

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

A consequence of an action is not extortion. Damnation is a consequence of a free will choice people make. If a father tells their child not to stick their hand in the fire the father is not extorting anything from the child.

 

 

 

 

Even if our children disobey us, I don't know a human parent who would force the child to keep his hand on the hot fire for all eternity.  

 

That's your evil god's specialty.  

 

 

So fuck him and fuck anyone who tries to influence me into worshiping such a monster.  Short of brain-damage, I could never worship him again.  If he "appeared" before me, I would doubt my own sanity and would check myself into a mental hospital -- pronto! 

 

What child in their right mind would hate their parent for telling them not to drink and drive.

 

 

You must have ignored most of what buffetphan said. Your analogy is an obvious indication of such.

 

 

There is substantial and significant evidence for God outside the Bible. Do you know what Natural Theology is?

 

 

There is evidence that the Bible god is the only real god, outside of the Bible? Yeah right. If Natural Theology proves a god exists, that does not prove that "God" is Yahweh from the Bible.

 

 

 

 

What child in their right mind would hate their parent for telling them not to drink and drive.

 

 

 

A more accurate analogy would be an absentee parent who deliberately programmed the child with an overwhelming desire to drink and drive, then when the intentionally imperfect child does the inevitable, the parent comes into town, sets the kid on fire and blames the kid. After all, the child had the choice to go against his parent-given nature and obey the contrary written command of a parent he's never seen or heard.

 

 

I wish it was possible to rate up the posts of moderators. Sometimes moderators post some awesome stuff, but there is no option to give it a good rating.

 

Yes, it did occur to me. It seems anti Christians engage in a deep form of selection bias where they focus in on, dwell on, obsess over that which they are able to interpret in their own minds as justification for their pre-existing vitriol. They ignore the deep and everlasting Love God freely offers. I don't believe for a minute any anti Christian cares one whit about what happened to the Canaanites. They do care about how to cast the God they hate in a bad light through careful and obsessive selection.

 

Where do you get the idea that we are anti-Christians? There is a difference between anti-Christianity and anti-Christian. I hate Christianity, but I do not hate Christians. Quite a few ex-Christians are anti-Christianity, but not anti-Christian. There might be some that are anti-Christian, but I am certainly not one of them.

 

I do not know what this selection bias is you speak of. Your god is clearly a monster, regardless of whether or not he offers everlasting love for people who agree to kiss his ass for eternity and call themselves morons any time logic tells them that their god is obviously acting like a sadistic tyrant or hypocrite. The fact that he offers everlasting love to ONLY people who kiss his ass for eternity and push away any doubts they have, even if it means deluding and lying to themselves, makes your god extremely corrupt. His love is conditional and only for some people, not all. There are a lot of anti-Christianity people who do care a great deal about the terrible things that your god does to people in your Bible, not just the Canaanites, but all of his victims.

 

People who have rejected Christianity cast the god of the religion they despise as a flawed god, to reveal that it must be the creation of corrupt, ignorant, sometimes stupid, and downright evil people. I do not hate your god, though there was a period when I did before my faith was killed off for good. I hate the crazy, sadistic people who made him up in the first place and wish they had never been born.

[raoul]

 

 

 

 

What would bring you to completely submit and worship The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Proof

 

Actually, that is reasonable with the caveat that proof outside mathematics and logic is really a collection of evidence which upon reaching a certain threshold will convince us of something.

 

So we can't prove God exists outside the bible, therefore it is reasonable to doubt his existence or at least the Christian version.

 

There is substantial and significant evidence for God outside the Bible. Do you know what Natural Theology is?

 

Yeah, ain't that sorta like 'presuppositional apologetics?' ROFL.

[raoul]

 

If we are the children of God and, wouldn't God want us to stand on our own two feet and reach our true potential without his intervention? Isn't it selfish to continue to rely on him when we can solve our problems on our own? As adults we can't continue to rely on our parents, eventually we do need to support ourselves and find our own ways. You can call it pride, but I refer to it as being self-sufficient.

 

Perhaps He knows more than we do just as normal parents realize they know more than their child. Perhaps He knows we cannot achieve anything but an illusion of self sufficiency with out His guidance and help. Perhaps He knows we are the creation and He is the Creator.

 

for "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, (1Pe 1:24)

 

 

And this from the same clown who claims we reject all evidence because of a psychological crutch we're relying on. ROFL

 

"The grass withers, and the flower falls, (1Pe 1:24)" "but my organ will always stay hard with an ample supply of Viagra" (4PETER(PUN INTENDED)

[raoul]

 

If we are the children of God and, wouldn't God want us to stand on our own two feet and reach our true potential without his intervention? Isn't it selfish to continue to rely on him when we can solve our problems on our own? As adults we can't continue to rely on our parents, eventually we do need to support ourselves and find our own ways. You can call it pride, but I refer to it as being self-sufficient.

 

Perhaps He knows more than we do just as normal parents realize they know more than their child. Perhaps He knows we cannot achieve anything but an illusion of self sufficiency with out His guidance and help. Perhaps He knows we are the creation and He is the Creator.

 

for "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, (1Pe 1:24)

 

 

Well shoot pilgrim, my wife and I seemed to have accomplished a heck of a lot on our own without any peeping tom skydaddy constantly wiping our arses for us. Geez, you must be really losing it now. It's obviously you're not even reading, much less comprehending what we have written. There's a verse in the bible which claims that your god has blinded your eyes intentionally. I know what you'll reply with - something about that verse meant for people who don't believe but then I'd have to ask you 'are you really saved?' because you seem to write as though you're not.

[raoul]

 

 

Yes, I did mean willingly.

 

Given that no one would willingly submit and worship Him given evidence it is clear all the talk about evidence is just a psychological crutch. I think a reasonable interpretation is that anti Christian "evidence talk" is just a way of comforting themselves. There is a deep need to convince themselves that He does not exist.

 

Is it any wonder that people like Dawkins say people like you are so deluded? Your response, which I PREDICTED almost word for word says it all. What the fuck do any of our responses have to do with EVIDENCE? I believe most if not all of us were speaking about the blind, unthinking worship of a despot based on your alleged holy book of myths? Now, is you want to bend over and well you hopefully get my drift here, that shows YOUR willingness to not question anything and just blindly follow like any other good Nazi. But don't insult our intelligence by switching the argument to the cult's erroneous view on 'evidence'.

 

 

 

What evidence is is pretty standard.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence

 

I think you just proved my point elsewhere regarding you not only not reading what we write but not being able to comprehend what was posited. Go back and read what I wrote again. I'm not about to do your work for you.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

What child in their right mind would hate their parent for telling them not to drink and drive.

 

 

 

A more accurate analogy would be an absentee parent who deliberately programmed the child with an overwhelming desire to drink and drive, then when the intentionally imperfect child does the inevitable, the parent comes into town, sets the kid on fire and blames the kid. After all, the child had the choice to go against his parent-given nature and obey the contrary written command of a parent he's never seen or heard.

 

First, It's absurd to think that because someone has an inclination to do something that they don't deserve punishment for their actions. I don't believe for a second you live that philosophy in real life. Second, Inclinations do not translate into inevitable actions. There are enormous numbers of people with the same backgrounds as those on this site. The same back stories that do love and worship God. Thirdly, even when we do act on those inclinations the ability to avoid the consequences is freely available.

[Guest r3alchild]

 

 

 

 

 

If we are the children of God and, wouldn't God want us to stand on our own two feet and reach our true potential without his intervention? Isn't it selfish to continue to rely on him when we can solve our problems on our own? As adults we can't continue to rely on our parents, eventually we do need to support ourselves and find our own ways. You can call it pride, but I refer to it as being self-sufficient.

 

Perhaps He knows more than we do just as normal parents realize they know more than their child. Perhaps He knows we cannot achieve anything but an illusion of self sufficiency with out His guidance and help. Perhaps He knows we are the creation and He is the Creator.

 

for "All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, (1Pe 1:24)

 

Well shoot pilgrim, my wife and I seemed to have accomplished a heck of a lot on our own without any peeping tom skydaddy constantly wiping our arses for us. Geez, you must be really losing it now. It's obviously you're not even reading, much less comprehending what we have written. There's a verse in the bible which claims that your god has blinded your eyes intentionally. I know what you'll reply with - something about that verse meant for people who don't believe but then I'd have to ask you 'are you really saved?' because you seem to write as though you're not.

Thats a good point, clay, you say alot that shows an unchristian or unchrist like mind set. Maybe alot of who you are is still in there, tucked away, screaming at you (let me free!) maybe your here because your really looking for a way out of what you believe and your looking for proof. I hope I have not been to hard in you as I have been in your place, we have all been there, but realise all the flack your getting is because your thinking these people need jesus. Maybe you should stop trying to be jesus and just be you.

[boftx]

 

1) The NT does not teach free-will,

 

2) "God" must need something from creation or else he would not have performed such an action. It follows that "God" can only be seen as complete because of us.

 

3) What a puny "God" yours must be.

1) Yes it does.

 

2) That's a non-sequitur

 

3) What is yours?

 

 

Why don't you start a new thread on how the NT teaches free will? I'm sure you'll get a good debate going on it. Please note the restriction that it be only NT references.

 

Thumbelina already tried debating that and effectively conceded defeat by retreating from the field. You are welcome to try it if you wish, but please do so in a new thread.

 

Read my sidebar, I'm agnostic. That said, with the understanding that the following concept can not be proven or dis-proven, I find it reasonable to view the underlying principles of the Universe that allow 1 + 1 = 2 to be true to be considered as a candidate for God in that such a God could be seen as creation itself rather than as a separate creator.

[Deva]

 

 

 

What child in their right mind would hate their parent for telling them not to drink and drive.

 

 

 

A more accurate analogy would be an absentee parent who deliberately programmed the child with an overwhelming desire to drink and drive, then when the intentionally imperfect child does the inevitable, the parent comes into town, sets the kid on fire and blames the kid. After all, the child had the choice to go against his parent-given nature and obey the contrary written command of a parent he's never seen or heard.

 

First, It's absurd to think that because someone has an inclination to do something that they don't deserve punishment for their actions. I don't believe for a second you live that philosophy in real life. Second, Inclinations do not translate into inevitable actions. There are enormous numbers of people with the same backgrounds as those on this site. The same back stories that do love and worship God. Thirdly, even when we do act on those inclinations the ability to avoid the consequences is freely available.

 

O.C.:  Would you say that the punishment of an eternity in hell is right, for the actions of what is, at best, a life of 100  years? Punishment is one thing, but Bible God takes that to a WHOLE NEW LEVEL.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

Thurisaz, you may have heard this saying: you can't fix stupid. But I like to add that you can hope it doesn't breed.

Oh I don't hope to "fix" a morontheist. But there are times when I just love to have pointed one to truth purely for shits and giggles *snicker* 

 

Tell us about polytheism.

Why would I? You wouldn't listen anyway - at "best" you'd scan my posting for keywords and babble the preprogrammed response that was fucked into (whatever passes for) your brain by your cult führer.

 

You are a gem mein freund. I'm reading your note with the quote by someone called 'fuckface' and I'm saying who the hell is this fuckface? I never heard of him/her before? And then the lights came one. ROFL

 

Backlinks can be informative.

[raoul]

 

 

 

Why would polytheism seem more rational to you?

 

 

Why is monotheism rational to you?  Answer without reference to the Bible.

 

I have answered. Everyone here struts around acting like they were former "apologists" and Bible "experts" so they must know the Christian arguments by heart.

 

Please don't deflect the question. We all know the elephant in the room is that polytheism is treated with kid gloves on this site. Endless rants are given about "evidence" yet polytheism is openly embraced here. As I said, it seems evidence is a red herring and the true goal is simply anti Christianity in any and all forms.

 

 

DON'T DEFLECT THE QUESTION???Oh you deceiving fucking hypocrite you! Didn't you do the EXACT thing when someone spoke about your skydaddy sending a child to everlasting hell? Your response was a parent doesn't let his kid drink and drive. What a pile of horseshit.

1. Drinking and driving may lead to something pernicious assuming the person is stone drunk while driving

2. Sending someone to hell to be punished forever is the story only a sick, perverted, human hating person or being would do.

 

Do you see ANY fucking difference now?

 

I also saw that deceptive slap at those of us 'strutting around ACTING as though we were apologists who knew the bible by heart and know cult apologetics by heart'. Talking about me Cracked Clay? I hope so because I do in fact know what you'll regurgitate before you spew it out. But unlike YOU, I don't recall anyone, including me saying we know the bible by heart. We reserve that for the self deluded like you and others like this Wayne Monbleau asshole who says, every fucking day on his show, how he's studied the bible for 40 years and knows it inside out!

And, why ain't you in church kissing your pastor's ass? It's Sunday you know.

[raoul]

 

 

 

Thurisaz, you may have heard this saying: you can't fix stupid. But I like to add that you can hope it doesn't breed.

Oh I don't hope to "fix" a morontheist. But there are times when I just love to have pointed one to truth purely for shits and giggles *snicker* 

 

Tell us about polytheism.

Why would I? You wouldn't listen anyway - at "best" you'd scan my posting for keywords and babble the preprogrammed response that was fucked into (whatever passes for) your brain by your cult führer.

 

You are a gem mein freund. I'm reading your note with the quote by someone called 'fuckface' and I'm saying who the hell is this fuckface? I never heard of him/her before? And then the lights came one. ROFL

 

Backlinks can be informative.

 

Yeah, and an asshole is still an asshole. Your point bible king? LOL

[sdelsolray]

There is substantial and significant evidence for God outside the Bible. 

...

 

 

Just not in any way you can demonstrate.

 

Your mere belief in certain imaginary sky fairies is not relevant to the OP question you posed.  Likewise, your numerous mere assertions are not relevant.

 

Why do you submit to and worship your chosen sky fairies?  Enlighten us with the psychological and emotional bases for this apparent need.

[bdp]

What would bring you to completely submit and worship The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Fictional deity, irreleavant question.  Next.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

 

Only if I were on the precipice of hell and God was getting ready to shove me in.Then it would be forced, wouldn't it?

 

Otherwise, some form of brain damage.

 

Anyway, I follow the Dharma. 

Where is dharma leading you?

 

 

What do you know of the Dharma? If we are not speaking the same language, we can't communicate.

 

Teach those who are reading.

 

Many Buddhist texts speak of the qualifications of the teacher, as well as the student.   I don't put myself forth as a teacher, but what I have learned is satisfactory to me.  

 

As a student, you have to be willing to be open to learning and seeing different points of view.  Unfortunately, I don't see evidence in what you have posted that you have this openness.

 

So you claim to follow dharma but either can't or are unwilling to explain it to anyone reading this thread.